Guild Wars 2 (official review on pp 21)

[Thry]

uhhhh yeah...

put me in the "that looks f'n awesome" crowd.

[rittchard]

Why can't they get this damn game out this year?!?!?!?   

[Blackjack]

PVP's Scott Kurtz did some strips for the official site updates:
Guild Wars 2 combat
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/part-one/

While I'm interested, I never warmed up to Guild Wars 1. The combat left me cold, and it felt to me more like a long series of instances connected by occasional "chat lobby villages" than an MMO. Games that go too far in either direction (over-instancing, so you don't really feel like part of a big world) or under-instancing (you keep stumbling into other players' quests and interfering with each other -- I found that a big problem in Tabula Rasa and sometimes Age of Conan) are fairly common, it's finding a nice balance that's tough.

[rittchard]

While I'm interested, I never warmed up to Guild Wars 1. The combat left me cold, and it felt to me more like a long series of instances connected by occasional "chat lobby villages" than an MMO. Games that go too far in either direction (over-instancing, so you don't really feel like part of a big world) or under-instancing (you keep stumbling into other players' quests and interfering with each other -- I found that a big problem in Tabula Rasa and sometimes Age of Conan) are fairly common, it's finding a nice balance that's tough.

Keep in mind though you are comparing 2 "traditional" MMORPGs - with monthly fees - to a game that had no monthly fees.  At the time when GW originally released (what feels like a thousand years ago), there were very few, if any, free to play, MMO-esque type games, so it was pretty ground-breaking at the time to have an MMO feel with no fee, and part of being able to support that financially was the instancing.  It's going to be very interesting to see how it plays out in GW2, which they've claimed is more of a "real" MMORPG but will still not have any monthly fee.

[KePoW]

Has anyone tried GW1 on Windows 7 64-bit?

I downloaded the client the other day and installed it, and I am getting some major *constant* hitching in-game.  This is on a brand new desktop PC (i5 750, GTX 275, 8 GB ram).

[rittchard]

Has anyone tried GW1 on Windows 7 64-bit?

I downloaded the client the other day and installed it, and I am getting some major *constant* hitching in-game.  This is on a brand new desktop PC (i5 750, GTX 275, 8 GB ram).

Coincidentally enough, I just installed it today, and I'm also on win 7 64bit.  I haven't played enough to notice anything but I'll let you know if there's anything weird.  Any mode in particular you are playing?

[KePoW]

Has anyone tried GW1 on Windows 7 64-bit?

I downloaded the client the other day and installed it, and I am getting some major *constant* hitching in-game.  This is on a brand new desktop PC (i5 750, GTX 275, 8 GB ram).

Coincidentally enough, I just installed it today, and I'm also on win 7 64bit.  I haven't played enough to notice anything but I'll let you know if there's anything weird.  Any mode in particular you are playing?

Thakns rittchard, please let me know if you notice anything.  Nothing particular, I just logged in with one of my level 20 characters in the city of Kaineng... and it constantly hitches like every 5-10 seconds.

Since this is a fresh installation, I was wondering if it had anything to do with the background downloading that is going on?  Or if it's a Windows 7 64-bit problem in general.

[notrich]

i vaguely remember back in the day people had problems right after re-installing fresh --- then they would re-install with a slash command that i can't remember right now so it would force the game to download everything... no more long delays zoning... not sure if it affects hitches

[Huw the Poo]

Goddamn.  I've been reading about the events system and watching the elementalist videos and stuff.  I really really really want this game.  Guild Wars is already in my top 5 of games, and GW2 sounds like it'll be an order of magnitude better.  In.  Day one purchase.  Collector's edition, no matter the cost.  IIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

[skystride]

Wasn't there a command line option to download all the maps in GW1?  I am playing on Win 7 64-bit, it runs fine but the constant downloads are annoying.

[Huw the Poo]

Yeah, -image.

[CeeKay]

an interview about dynamic events.

[rittchard]

an interview about dynamic events.

FINALLY someone is at least attempting to innovate on the conventional questing system, I have been begging for something like this for what feels like years.

[Huw the Poo]

Indeed.  When it's released and my copy arrives, I'm determined to find some way to have sex with it.

[Thry]

I like everything I'm seeing except the Asura.  Out of place and lame.

[Huw the Poo]

Agreed.  There's no place for robots in a game with this sort of setting.  I'm absolutely confident that GW2 will be incredible though, so I'll just have to constantly mock those who play as Asura.

[CeeKay]

so I'll just have to constantly mock those who play as Asura.

just refer to them in a Yoda voice 'Ass-U-R-a'.

[rittchard]

More in depth coverage of the Dynamic Events Engine:

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dynamic-events/dynamic-events-overview/

I can barely contain my excitement, seriously!  I remember posting ideas very similar to this in terms of NPC AI/Evolution years ago, and having them poo-pooed as being impossible to realize.  Well, here it is, and looking very credible coming from Arena Net.  And of course I have to say it's a great feeling to have a company like Arena echo my internal thoughts about MMOs almost verbatim, like most recently on my blog post about the mmorpg genre:

http://rittchard.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/what-happened-to-the-mmorpg-genre/

[skystride]

What I don't understand is what happens when that ogre attacks a house, you decide to not kill it, the house gets destroyed.  How long does it stay destroyed in the persistent world?  Is it like Warhammer where Public Quests reset every 15 minutes or so?

[rittchard]

What I don't understand is what happens when that ogre attacks a house, you decide to not kill it, the house gets destroyed.  How long does it stay destroyed in the persistent world?  Is it like Warhammer where Public Quests reset every 15 minutes or so?

This is vague but their response is:

Where other multi-player quest systems were pass or fail - our dynamic events evolve in response to player interaction and the outcomes they achieve. Where previous systems reset and start again and really don't change the world, dynamic events chain and cascade across a zone and leave persistent effects in the game world after the event has ended.

And then they go on in more detail with an example:

In traditional MMOs, when a quest is completed it has no real effect on the game world. You receive your reward and then move on, looking for the next quest to do. The world appears no better or worse for your actions. In GW2, the outcome of every event will directly affect the game world around you. If an enemy dredge army is marching out of their main base, players will be asked to mobilize with their allies and help destroy the army. If the dredge army is defeated, other events will cascade out from there. Players will be able battle their way inside the dredge base, face off against their commander, rescue captured friendly troops being held in the dredge prisons, and even hold the captured base while fighting waves of dredge, who arrive from deep underground to try and take back their home.

If, on the other hand, players fail to destroy the army, it will establish a fort in friendly player territory. From there, the dredge will send shipments of troops and supplies to the fort from the main base while building up walls, turrets, and siege engines to help defend it. Enemy dredge forces will then begin to move out from their newly established fort to attack friendly player locations in the area, sending snipers out into the hills, sending assault team forces to capture friendly player villages, and trying to smash down friendly fortifications with massive dredge walkers. All of these events continue to cascade out into further chains of events where cause and effect is directly related to the player's actions.

For example, if the players do not mobilize to stop the dredge snipers, they'll begin to shoot down all the villagers and merchants in nearby friendly villages. If they fail to stop the dredge assault teams from capturing a village, players will need to lead a force to help liberate the town and free the villagers. All of this content is derived from a single initial event - the dredge army marching through the map.

So for your question, I guess it depends on the location and how the engine truly works.  It sounds to me like when the house is destroyed, it's gone for good, i.e. no reset button.  Maybe the ogres build their own village in that spot, or maybe they just move on.  However it's entirely possible that a later Dynamic Event chain gets started which leads to another house being built in that spot, so the effect might be the same, but hopefully the cause is different - in that it's been spawned by an entirely new/different chain of events.

[KePoW]

I wouldn't get too hyped up or speculate too much about this feature, or wonder how it will get implemented.

I've heard lots of MMOs promise many things before.  Just relax and wait until the game comes out.  Plenty of other fun games and MMOs to play in the meantime.

[skystride]

Too late, I'm already hyped up to the max.  Even if it's just MOTS Guild Wars (which doesn't seem likely), I will be very happy as long as it has as fun a class and combat system as the original game.

[rittchard]

Too late, I'm already hyped up to the max.  Even if it's just MOTS Guild Wars (which doesn't seem likely), I will be very happy as long as it has as fun a class and combat system as the original game.

Yeah ditto from me in terms of hype factor.  GW remains one of my all-time favorite games, and Arena one of the few developers that pretty much delivered everything they promised.  That isn't to say it was the perfect game (plenty of things I wanted to see them change or improve), and while it could be coincidence or false promises, one by one they've been addressing every single complaint I had.  Can't ask for more than that... except they just won't release sooner which is killing me 

[rittchard]

More info on how they are fleshing out individual vs. world storylines.  If they can pull half of this stuff off effectively it will very likely become my favorite MMORPG of all time.

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/personal-stories/personal-story-overview/

[Huw the Poo]

C'mon Rittchard, who are you trying to kid?  I think GW2 is already your favourite MMORPG - and mine!

[skystride]

Reading about companions in Old Republic made me think about the hero and henchman system of GW1.  I hope they bring this back in GW2.  I have a feeling they may opt to dump henchmen and just have a hero system.  I really like the idea of being able to use AI party members to do challenging content when you don't want to group.  More MMOs need to offer this option.  They could also add customizable AI sort of like Final Fantasy 12/13/Dragon Age.

[Huw the Poo]

I really hope they don't use Heroes, although they almost certainly will.  To me, Heroes killed off what little social aspect there was to Guild Wars.  If you weren't in a guild, you'd be playing on your own.

[skystride]

I really hope they don't use Heroes, although they almost certainly will.  To me, Heroes killed off what little social aspect there was to Guild Wars.  If you weren't in a guild, you'd be playing on your own.

This doesn't bother me since I play MMOs almost exclusively in a guild and PUGging is very rare.

[rittchard]

I thought i read somewhere you'd have only a single companion/hero, but i could be imagining that.

[CeeKay]

a new video and screenshots.

[PR_GMR]

a new video and screenshots.

Looks awesome! I went to GuildWars2.com to check out the videos. But only managed to see the first one (Sever Artery, Gash and Final Thrust) before the other ones were updated to Flash Player 9. Ugh. Can't see the rest until I get home tonight.. But the one look TREMENDOUS!!!

[skystride]

Wow after watching the Elementalist videos, I thought there's no way Warrior melee combat could look as good.  I was wrong.

[PR_GMR]

Watched the rest of the warrior videos--Just total Bad-assery!! I think I want to play a Charr warrior. 

[Roguetad]

Wow   The warrior vids were awesome.

[Harkonis]

Wow after watching the Elementalist videos, I thought there's no way Warrior melee combat could look as good.  I was wrong.

careful sky, you were this hyped with both WAR and Aion

[PR_GMR]

Wow after watching the Elementalist videos, I thought there's no way Warrior melee combat could look as good.  I was wrong.

careful sky, you were this hyped with both WAR and Aion

Yeah, but WAR and Aion weren't developed by ArenaNet.. who was sold over 6 millions copies of 'Guild Wars'.. and they're a deveoper that will release this 'when it's done'.. crafted, and finished. 

[The Rocketman]

Wow, I came into this thread expecting nothing, and now, after I've read the developer's thoughts... Yes, this is the way a MMORPG of the future should be done!
Here's hoping they can pull it off! 

[skystride]

careful sky, you were this hyped with both WAR and Aion

I still think WAR is a great game and if it was completely F2P like Guild Wars, I'd still be playing it for the Scenarios.

[rittchard]

careful sky, you were this hyped with both WAR and Aion

I still think WAR is a great game and if it was completely F2P like Guild Wars, I'd still be playing it for the Scenarios.

Agreed on this, WAR scenarios were always a blast. 

That said, I don't think any of us were as hyped with WAR or Aion.  Sure we were all excited about WAR (less so with Aion), but we knew enough about the game design elements that we weren't drooling in anticipation.  WAR we knew was serving up some minor innovations like scenarios, castle takeovers, and public quests, but nothing nearly as ambitious and innovative as what Arena is proposing with GW2.  I have complete confidence that these guys are going to pull off at least a good portion of what they claim; they've proven themselves already with GW1 and all the improvements they made there.

[rittchard]

Holy crap just saw the videos, the animation is absolutely amazing, it's like watching an animated film.  As far as I can tell, that's actual gameplay footage right?  Or intended to be gameplay-like footage at least?  (I don't think anyone would be working the camera quite like that while they were actually playing.)

Also like the stuff on traits, nothing extraordinary here but it sounds like the system is built for experimentation in different builds (and with no penalties or grind aspects added to it), which I personally love.

We want experimentation with traits to be fun and engaging, so we've made the rules for changing traits extremely flexible. With no in-game cost, you can respec at will, outside of combat. This means you are open to experiment with what works and what doesn't work on the fly, without having to go back to town or worry about if you have enough gold.

Whether it's adventuring around Tyria trying to stop dragons or fighting other players in World PvP - the trait system is there to experiment with, to have fun with, and to allow you to feel like you are actively mastering the profession you have chosen. Like Guild Wars, there are countless unique and clever combinations to be found.