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9361  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 22, 2007, 03:54:04 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on August 22, 2007, 03:42:53 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on August 22, 2007, 03:18:26 PM

I guess I just disagree with the statement that "widescreen displays should show you more, not less."  I think that widescreen displays should show you the correct FOV for the widescreen aspect ratio.  The 4:3 display can either chop off the sides or add to the top and bottom; it doesn't change the correctness of the widescreen.

The reason the side by side comparisons came out is indeed because the hardcore people who care about this (ie those over at Widescreen Gaming) did indeed notice it looked funky. 

And there is a general standard for FOV- 85-90 for 4:3 and a bit wider (duh) for widescreen.  It's usually pretty noticeable when games diverge from it too much.  Jedi Knight 2 initially made a lot of people kind of nauseous (including myself) because it defaulted to a much narrower FOV than most games. 

With Bioshock it looks like it's about 90 for both full screen and widescreen.  Proper implementation means that each setting (4:3 and 16:9) should have it's own native FOV.  To use your above example, if they "opened up the matte" after implementing the proper widescreen FOV, then it would be incorrect for 4:3 gamers at that point with an excessive FOV for 4:3 gaming. 

This is more like it.  If people looked at the FOV angle and noticed it was off, I'm all on board the complain train.  Everything I've seen, though, just points to 4:3 having more real estate and complaining about that alone.  If you're saying that if they opened the matte, people would've noticed the distortion on 4:3, why didn't anyone (except the widescreen videophiles) notice the distortion on 16:9?  Are people getting motion sickness on the 360 version, or does it look just fine unless you tell people they shouldn't be happy?
9362  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 22, 2007, 03:45:35 PM
Re: unbreakable

Yes yes, we've seen the screenshot.

How do I make this more clear?

How can you tell whether the 16:9 is a cropped 4:3 view, or the 4:3 view is a letterboxed 16:9 view with extra vertical FOV instead of black bars?

If you can remember getting drunk in Everquest, you develop tunnel vision.  Definitely too much FOV for the screen.  Crop the sides and stretch too much, that's too little FOV.  There's an amount of peripheral vision that the game developers decide to give us.  It should look natural to our eyes.  How do we know that the FOV Bioshock gave us for 16:9 is not correct.  (Again, before they confirmed it to be so.)

As more and more people have widescreen TVs and computer monitors, more and more games are going to be developed for 16:9 first and adapted for 4:3 second.  Some games already force the 4:3 view to have black bars on the top and bottom.  If instead of using black bars they increased the vertical view on 4:3, it would not suddenly make the 16:9 view wrong.
9363  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Home Theater Speakers on: August 22, 2007, 03:31:04 PM

Quote from: Thin_J on August 22, 2007, 03:08:40 PM

That depends on what you're after my friend.

If you want to be prepared for HD stuff then the minimum seems to be in the $400 range for one particular Onkyo model. If you just want tons of inputs and a nice receiver and aren't worried about Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD and all that then there's an awesome sony (STR-DG910) on Amazon for about $370.

I'm all about future-proofing as much as possible, so it's good to know that at $400 the point of entry isn't too terrible.
9364  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 22, 2007, 03:28:28 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on August 22, 2007, 03:21:10 PM



Except your picture is wrong.  You aren't getting the red box... you are getting the area in the blue box, having the top and bottom cut off where the red lines are, and stretched to fit the screen.  THAT'S the problem.

How can you tell whether you're getting the red box or a cropped blue box?
9365  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: The Great Drought is Over in just 1hr! on: August 22, 2007, 03:25:43 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on August 22, 2007, 03:05:01 PM

Quote from: ATB on August 22, 2007, 11:30:24 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on August 22, 2007, 06:27:13 AM

Quote from: Calvin on August 22, 2007, 04:12:07 AM

Quote from: ATB on August 21, 2007, 02:14:02 PM

Quote from: ATB on August 21, 2007, 01:02:49 PM

I thought about making a new thread, but I didn't want Calvin's suicide on my conscience.

+1!

You really are trying too hard.

he's got to try and catch up with you somehow  icon_wink

No dummies.  I did a plus one for each thread title change. 

I know it was too subtle for you, but given the likelihood that you have some experience with adventure games, you should have been able to catch on.

ad-vent-ure games?  sounds like a mythological beast, like the unicorn.

?

9366  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 22, 2007, 03:18:26 PM
But let's say they do release a patch expand the FOV for widescreen.  There is much rejoicing.  But they also accidentally change the 4:3 view to be as wide as the new widescreen view, but with some extra FOV on the top and bottom.

Is the widescreen view wrong again because the 4:3 view shows more?

I guess I just disagree with the statement that "widescreen displays should show you more, not less."  I think that widescreen displays should show you the correct FOV for the widescreen aspect ratio.  The 4:3 display can either chop off the sides or add to the top and bottom; it doesn't change the correctness of the widescreen.

In this case it's a dead debate since they've acknowledged it is indeed a problem, but before the side by side screenshot comparisons came out I don't remember anyone complaining that the widescreen FOV looked funky.
9367  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Home Theater Speakers on: August 22, 2007, 03:02:24 PM

Quote from: Thin_J on August 22, 2007, 03:00:14 PM

I've been looking lately too and I think I'm going to end up going to a local home audio shop and getting a full set of Paradigm Cinema 70's. Should be about $500 for the entire speaker set.

Those look like a good deal.  How much do receivers cost these days?
9368  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 22, 2007, 02:47:25 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on August 22, 2007, 02:34:05 PM

The problem is that you are getting less with widescreen, when you should be getting more.

But how do you know (well, before Kevin Levine acknowledged it as a problem) that the widescreen view isn't giving us the proper viewing angle, and the 4:3 view is giving us a distorted extra up/down view?  If the 4:3 view had black bars at the top and bottom instead of extra real estate, would anyone have an issue with the 16:9 viewing angle?

Laner's Super 35 example is great:



Are widescreen viewers getting screwed because 4:3 viewers get to see Dyson's knees?  No, the widescreen view is still the proper framing of the scene.  (And I realize in this example the widescreeners still do see more on the left and right, but I think the point still stands if you ignore the blue box and assume 4:3 viewers get to see the whole image.)
9369  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band - now with more awesomeness on: August 22, 2007, 02:09:07 PM
Ok ok. 

It mirrors the challenge and reward of learning to play a real instrument, and mimics the instruments well enough that you feel like you're really playing.  Even if you already know how to play the guitar, it's still fun to just fire up your console and have a band and a good singer backing you up.  You get to play your favorite songs, or find out about new songs you never knew about.  The games have a wide difficulty range so that people can pick it up and instantly have fun, but still have enough to challenge them for months and months.

Rock Band adds drums to the equation, along with the ability to team up with 3 of your friends.

But really, it's popular because it's very very fun.
9370  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band - now with more awesomeness on: August 22, 2007, 02:04:28 PM

Quote from: Lockdown on August 22, 2007, 02:01:09 PM

I don't see the draw.  What is it I'm not understanding?

It's fun.
9371  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo (Another Xbox 360 Bites the Dust) on: August 22, 2007, 01:56:22 PM
If I were in your shoes, Conan, I'd just be glad my 360 died with the rings instead of by a problem not on the extended extended don't make us recall warranty.
9372  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band - now with more awesomeness on: August 22, 2007, 01:42:26 PM

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on August 22, 2007, 01:36:53 PM

That announcement makes me sad I sold my PS2.  icon_frown

Nah, you'll be glad to have the downloadable content me thinks.  I just hope that they can manufacture enough of the peripherals for a three system launch.
9373  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 22, 2007, 01:36:51 PM
Now if they touted triple monitor support and the game gave you this view:



Ok, I guess I would probably join the complainers.
9374  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band - now with more awesomeness on: August 22, 2007, 01:12:05 PM
The little old console that just wouldn't die:

Rock Band coming to PS2?!

Some new songs announced too, all original versions:

Rolling Stones -- “Gimme Shelter”
Deep Purple -- "Highway Star"
The Clash -- “Should I Stay or Should I Go”
Faith No More -- "Epic”
Smashing Pumpkins -- “Cherub Rock”
Radiohead -- “Creep”
Beastie Boys -- “Sabotage”
Jet -- “Are You Gonna Be My Girl”
OK Go -- “Here It Goes Again”
Nine Inch Nails -- “The Hand That Feeds”
9375  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 22, 2007, 12:45:52 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on August 22, 2007, 03:55:10 AM


I dunno, people are in a flipsy about that all over the place, but is it really an issue?  What if the wide-screen view is the intended viewing angle and they increased the vertical range for 4:3 monitors rather than putting up black bars?
9376  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 21, 2007, 11:15:50 PM

Quote from: Greggy_D on August 21, 2007, 11:00:06 PM

Did you guys try the latest Nvidia Bioshock drivers?

Yup.
9377  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 21, 2007, 10:52:03 PM
I guess I was latching on to AGP as the cause because it didn't seem like the 7600s should be that much of an improvement over the 6800 GT: upping the resolution with all the bells and whistles turned on instead of struggling to just function at low res no bells.
9378  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Atlus will break your arm. on: August 21, 2007, 08:28:39 PM
Quote
The machine isn't that strong, much less so than a muscular man. Even women should be able to beat it," company spokesman Ayano Sakiyama told AP news agency.

Arm Spirit gamers advance through 10 levels, pitting their strength against a French maid, a drunken martial arts master and a Chihuahua dog before reaching the final challenge - a professional wrestler.

Sir, we've established that you're clearly much weaker than a muscular man, or the average woman, but for the police report can you help us narrow down if you're also weaker than a French maid or a Chihuahua?
9379  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 21, 2007, 08:21:06 PM

Quote from: EddieA on August 21, 2007, 08:14:16 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on August 21, 2007, 01:40:44 AM

I almost had to throw a dart to pick which Bioshock thread to post this in!

So I fired up the demo expecting it to run really poorly on my system.  OUCH.  It ran even worse than I expected.

Athlon 64 3500Mhz
GeForce 6800GT (256MB) (Today's BETA nvidia drivers)
2GB Ram
Audigy 2
Windows XP

I have the same processor (if by 3500Mhz, you mean a 3500+), only 1 GB of RAM, and a 7600GS.  At 1024, with everything on high, the game is silky smooth in the water at the beginning, and only slightly less so once I get indoors.  I don't know how the video cards compare, but it should be running smoothly on yours.  Unless the video card is holding you back, there must be some other problem.

From the reports coming in here and there, everyone I've seen with similar specs that has AGP: unplayable.  Similar specs with PCI-E: runs pretty good.
9380  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ds] etrian odyssey impressions on: August 21, 2007, 07:36:28 PM
Avoid'em. smile
9381  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 21, 2007, 06:37:37 PM

Quote from: Gratch on August 21, 2007, 06:25:52 PM

Well that answers the "will it run on my system" question with a resounding no.   I've got pretty similar specs with less RAM (1 GB) and a better vid card (7800).  Since I'm completely hopeless playing FPS on consoles, it looks like I'm out of luck on Bioshock until I can afford a PC upgrade.   Which will be...well...never.   tear
It's been sounding like it runs very decently on other people's systems just like yours.  I'm convinced that as long as you're past the AGP generation of cards you're okay.
9382  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Need your help guys [POLL] on: August 21, 2007, 05:30:44 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on August 14, 2007, 08:40:36 PM

I have to say this Tom's of Maine stuff actually seems to be working really well for me.  Guess I've been pumping myself full of aluminum for no reason all these years.

I know you're all dying to hear more about my hops-filled armpits.  Tom's is holding up just fine for ordinary day-to-day duties, but there was a particularly hot & humid day last week that may have brought me to environmental hazard levels of stink.
9383  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD thing is taking a long time to finish on: August 21, 2007, 04:58:25 PM

Quote from: gellar on August 21, 2007, 04:54:00 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on August 21, 2007, 04:41:35 PM

Well, I think you guys are wrong.  The tech as it stands now isn't good enough, yes.  But there are a shitload of people working on ways to make it more viable, and I'll bet $5 right now that downloadable, on-demand programming trumps Blu-Ray and HD before either of those formats peel away half of the marketshare that DVD currently holds.

You think studios are going to sell their movies for $5 and that the DRM development costs will be covered in that price?  The movie studios are more Nazi like in their DRM practices than the record labels are.  It's THE reason the majority of them back Blu-Ray.

I'd be stoked if you were right though.  It'd make me actually buy movies again slywink

gellar

I'll bet $2 that movie studios will not base their pricing on people's bets. slywink
9384  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock available for pre-order/load on Steam; Demo Friday @ Fileshack on: August 21, 2007, 01:55:08 PM

Quote from: EddieA on August 21, 2007, 10:37:23 AM

Wow - I was barely expecting the demo to run on my computer, but it ran beautifully. I have an AMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1 GB of RAM, and a GeForce 7600GS. At 1024x768 and all the settings on high, the game ran very nicely. Not exactly silky smooth, but perfect playable.

Is your video card AGP or PCI Express?  I'm assuming PCI, because from some of the reports at Qt3, it sounds like for this game AGP is the weak link for those of us in the Athlon 64 3500+ realm.
9385  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Im playing the Bioshock Pc demo Now! on: August 21, 2007, 12:41:41 PM

Quote from: SpicyJ on August 21, 2007, 07:20:07 AM

My computer laughed at me when I tried to play the demo. 360 version for me, definitely.

What's your system specs?
9386  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: New vid card? What's the bang for the buck on: August 21, 2007, 03:32:44 AM
I'm clueless on the latest model numbers.  How much better is that $300 8800GTS than 256MB 8600GTs that are $150-200 less on newegg?

edit: found a comparison
9387  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Real Life Forum Posting Vid... on: August 21, 2007, 02:53:19 AM
9388  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts beta on Fileplanet on: August 21, 2007, 02:38:44 AM
Damn you, NDA!
9389  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock pc review...pc better on: August 21, 2007, 01:40:44 AM
I almost had to throw a dart to pick which Bioshock thread to post this in!

So I fired up the demo expecting it to run really poorly on my system.  OUCH.  It ran even worse than I expected.

Athlon 64 3500Mhz
GeForce 6800GT (256MB) (Today's BETA nvidia drivers)
2GB Ram
Audigy 2
Windows XP

Opening water scene was super choppy, but I figure I'll at least see how it runs when I get indoors.  Nuh uh.  I kept turning down the settings more and more.  Even at 1024*768, -everything- turned off or turned to low, including the texture resolution, and the framerate was unplayably low.  Practically a slideshow whenever I turned my head or if there was anything happening on the screen.

I know we've grown to expect minimum requirements to be meaningless, but this was just horrible--my system was even a nudge above the minimum requirements.  I didn't think to try to drop to 640*480, maybe that's what they had in mind for the min req?

I'm very curious to hear how well it runs on systems a step above mine.

edit: fired up fraps:
~30fps in opening swim, though it didn't feel that fast
>30fps in first indoor scene if I look at walls
15-20fps if a round metal sphere is anywhere in my field of view
28-30fps when I first get a look underwater, but
10-12fps when more scenery comes into view
9390  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bioshock available for pre-order/load on Steam; Demo Friday @ Fileshack on: August 21, 2007, 12:50:12 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on August 21, 2007, 12:08:13 AM

so, any chance GT is going to be hosting the demo?  icon_wink

The Steam demo download was actually pretty quick for me.  Going to test it out shortly.
9391  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Jeanne D'Arc- IGN review on: August 20, 2007, 11:26:56 PM

Quote from: Ridah on August 20, 2007, 10:23:35 PM

The length is probably going to keep me away from this title. I can handle a 40+ hour RPG on a console, but there's no way my neck and hands could take it on a portable.

Exactly why I'm excited for the TV out on the PSP Slim!
9392  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Genres You Used To Love, But No Longer Do on: August 20, 2007, 11:25:33 PM
Project Sylpheed on the 360 is going to scratch my space sim itch as soon as I can find it cheap.
9393  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Want to watch Transformers or Shrek 3 in HD, get a HD-DVD Drive. on: August 20, 2007, 08:09:24 PM
Is that on the 360 or the PS3?

(meanwhile, in Off-Topic...)
9394  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD thing is taking a long time to finish on: August 20, 2007, 07:52:12 PM
You know, I'm actually finding myself pretty OK with the idea of just getting both platforms.  I'll surely get a PS3 one of these days, and the HD-DVD add-on for the 360 isn't all that expensive, so it's not that intimidating to buy both.
9395  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Today's Sunday Project on: August 20, 2007, 07:39:43 PM
Well I saw a 6'5" friend's enormous full back tattoo of a giant bright orange koi fish not dissimilar in appearance to your reference photo go on in stages over the course of more than a year, but what do I know.

Nothing would please me more than to eat my words when you hopefully show us the finished product, but right now the head--especially the eyes--looks like a huge departure from the reference art.  Maybe you're just going for a much different take on the artwork than I'm imagining.
9396  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: PC Exclusives on the Horizon on: August 20, 2007, 07:14:46 PM

Quote from: Tals on August 20, 2007, 07:04:41 PM

RTS World in Conflict - will support both DX 9 and 10

Tals

On the 360.
9397  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Today's Sunday Project on: August 20, 2007, 07:11:35 PM

Quote from: Kratz on August 20, 2007, 06:50:57 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on August 20, 2007, 05:58:03 PM

Was this the actual picture you showed to the tattoo artist for what you wanted the fish to look like?



You figure that out all by yourself? smile

Quote from: Kratz on August 20, 2007, 12:17:43 AM

It's a catfish.  Kind of based off of this artwork.  It'll look more like that when it is done.

Hey I was trying to be nice.  I understand it's not finished yet, but right now it's not looking anything like that reference photo--that's why I had to check to be sure.  I'd think about switching artists if I were you; it might not be too late to save it.
9398  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: PSP 2000 available for preorder on Amazon on: August 20, 2007, 05:59:46 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on August 20, 2007, 05:29:31 PM

2000?  Isn't that, like, almost 8 years ago?

Now if Microsoft enters the handheld market they're gonna end up using scientific notation to show their extreme superiority!
9399  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Today's Sunday Project on: August 20, 2007, 05:58:03 PM
Was this the actual picture you showed to the tattoo artist for what you wanted the fish to look like?

9400  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Genres You Used To Love, But No Longer Do on: August 20, 2007, 05:39:34 PM
First, the ones I no longer play because the genre died: Space Sims  crybaby, Adventure Games  crybaby, Platform Sidescrollers  crybaby, "Shmup" Vert/Side Scrolling Shooters  crybaby, Light Gun Games crybaby, Top Down Driving Games crybaby.

Ok, with that out of the way, some that are still current that are no longer my cup of tea.

I'm with you on the Sports Games.  I was big on the NES and Genesis era games, but I think I just didn't make the switch to 3d with the genre.  It worked better for me to have the sports abstracted, with lovely pixel art animations of hockey players smooshing into the sideboards.  I can't think of any realistic looking sports game today that looks more fun than NHL '94.

Fighting games are pretty much dead to me, and I was a huge fan back in the day.  They either got too complex for me, like Virtua Fighter, or got too heavy on 500 hit combos like the X vs. Capcom series.

City/realm building games don't grab me much any more.  I liked Sim City 4 for a while, but for whatever reason it just didn't keep my attention for very long at all.  I haven't gotten into a Caesar/Zeus sort of builder for a long long time either.  Who knows, maybe Sim City Societies' new take on the genre will be perfect for me, despite my skepticism.
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