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2721  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Jane Fonda's face is used as a spittoon on: April 25, 2005, 11:59:45 PM


adj 1: containing or based on a fallacy; "fallacious reasoning"; "an unsound argument" [syn: unsound]

Now, if I had spelled it 'fellatious'.... unibrow
2722  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Jane Fonda's face is used as a spittoon on: April 25, 2005, 07:41:40 PM
Quote from: "Unbreakable"
Quote from: "th'FOOL"
My point, since you seem to have trouble figuring out, is that nobody here mentioned anything about forgiving GWB or Christian saints of anything, selectively or otherwise

Really?  I thought I did.

Clarification: Nobody else.

Ah, I see.  She should have kept her opinions to herself, at home, while barefoot and pregnant.

This is what I said: "Had she made her political statement at home, or in any other country other than the one that we were at war with, I would think nothing of it."  I fail to see how that can be interpeted to the extreme that you suggest.  I never implied that she should not be allowed to speak out against the war, that she not wear shoes, or that she was required to have a bun in the oven.

And besides, the fact that the enemy used her picture as propaganda wasnt exactly under her control, was it?  OMG, the enemy is attacking our moral position!  Those bastards!  How dare they!

The fact that she enabled herself to be used as a propaganda tool has been admitted even by her.  And said propaganda was not meant for us, but for the soldiers fighting against us.

I never realized people's opinions should be based geographically before.

No, but where you are making a political statement can certainly lend weight to that statement.  By posing with North Vietnamese soldiers with military hardware that was likely used against US soldiers, she effectively said to the world that she was on their side, not that she was merely protesting what our country was doing.  Whether that's what she meant to do or not is irrelevant, it doesn't take rocket science to figure out that doing that doesn't help the cause she purportedly believed in.

Ah, implying drug use.  Thats a pretty intellectual statement on your part.

It's called a figure of speech.  Since you can't get past that, let me translate and further elaborate: If you think it's a good idea for celebrities to go party it up with our enemies and give them (inadvertently or not) some juicy footage of them posing with soldiers that had in all likelyhood killed at least one of their countrymen within a week, then you are delusional.

And it's amazing how you create this analogy between people informing themselves and treason.  If there isnt anything wrong being done, an honest person would welcome the scrutiny.  I wonder what they are trying to hide?

I created no such analogy.  One can inform oneself without being treasonous


obviously, you've been there, so I'm eagerly awaiting your first-hand account of what it is really like.

One could easily say the same to you.

So I'm guessing you see how ridiculous your assumptions of what is and isn't going on over there are?  I at least have friends that have/ are serving over there or are in the military intelligence community, so I am getting some first-hand information.

Because they are displaying the exact same callous behavior you find at fault with Fonda.  I dont see how comparing Vietnam to Iraq is 'totally unrelated'.

See my above statement about the apple and the clown's nose.
2723  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Jane Fonda's face is used as a spittoon on: April 25, 2005, 06:10:42 PM
Quote from: "unbreakable"
It isnt a weak or sham argument, it is a parallel example (and a pretty fair one, in my opinion).  The fact that the reasoning behind the opposing point of view is weak isnt my fault.  But, in typical zealot fashion, continue attacking the questioner rather than the question.

Saying that the forgiveness of GWB's 'draft-dodging' is a parallel example to forgiveness of Jane Fonda's treasonous acts is like saying an apple is a parallel example of a clown's nose because they are both red.

That is, the resemblance is so superficial as to not have any relevance at all.
2724  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Jane Fonda's face is used as a spittoon on: April 25, 2005, 06:06:36 PM
Quote from: "unbreakable"
My point, since you seem to have trouble figuring it out, was that there is a whole lot of 'selective forgiveness' going around.

My point, since you seem to have trouble figuring out, is that nobody here mentioned anything about forgiving GWB or Christian saints of anything, selectively or otherwise

After reading the actual facts (if we choose to accept sopes, which I have never found a reason not to), she made two mistakes in judgement.  One, she went to Vietnam and voiced disent of what was going on over there.  Which, last I checked, was perfectly within her rights as an American citizen.

Clarification- she went to North Vietnam and voiced dissent.  Had she made her political statement at home, or in any other country other than the one that we were at war with, I would think nothing of it.  No, she got her yuks at the expense of our troops and gave our enemy a fine little piece of propaganda.

As for any supposed straw man, perhaps you should look up what that term actually means before you accuse someone of using it.  You should go back and read your posts to see how asinine they sound.

And yet you offer up not just one, but two more fallacious arguments further into this post.

It is actually a shame nobody is serving the same function now, pointing out the abuses (on both sides) going on over in Iraq and Afghanistan.  We are getting a very whitewashed version of the 'news' over here, and IMO it is doing a grave disservice not just to the country, but to the servicemen who are living and dying over there.

Funny, I get a lot of my information from sources other than the mass media, and most of them claim it isn't nearly as bad as the news makes it out to be.  That's not to say bad shit isn't happening, but it's not nearly as widespread or catastrophic as the news might portray it to be.  And frankly, if you are suggesting that more celebrities should come forth and help create propoganda for those killing our troops in Iraq, you need to lay off the fucking pipe.

The biggest tragedy there, IMO, is how much danger they are all in, while over here everybody thinks Baghdad, Iraq in general, and Afghanistan are as cozy and safe as the suburb Vanilla Ice grew up in.  So when we have people shipping home with PTSD, everyone is going to thing "Iraq?  WTF went on over there that was so bad?  The Mission was Accomplished a long time ago."

obviously, you've been there, so I'm eagerly awaiting your first-hand account of what it is really like.

IMO, the sins of Jane Fonda are no worse than those of Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleeza Rice, etc, who are demonstrating just as bad of a disregard to the nature of combat over there, but even worse is that they are in a position to do something about it.  But they wont, because it's already "Mission Accomplished".  Too bad, no body armor for GI Joe, cuz Haliburton's investors need bigger houses and new sports cars.

Why, oh why do you feel the need to compare Jane Fonda to people or entities who are involved in events totally unrelated to the conversation at hand?
2725  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Jane Fonda's face is used as a spittoon on: April 25, 2005, 06:33:39 AM
Unbreakable, when you can keep the straw men out of your arguments, stop making blanket assumptions regarding any of our political or religious leanings, and actually educate yourself as to what the hell you are talking about, we might actually have an intelligent and polite discussion.

Seriously, what the hell do George W Bush and Christian saints have to do with Jane Fonda?  Going back and re-reading your posts is almost comical.
2726  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Jane Fonda's face is used as a spittoon on: April 25, 2005, 01:26:27 AM
Quote from: "unbreakable"
I guess I would need to hear factual info at this point, rather than rumors.

At any rate, not forgiving someone after an apology has been given isnt a very Christian position to take, especially given the long list of saints who started their careers by killing Christians.

I'm sorry, but WTF do Christians have to do with it?!?!  Any other bullshit comparisons you plan on ponying up?
2727  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Jane Fonda's face is used as a spittoon on: April 24, 2005, 03:55:32 AM
Who said anything about Bush?  Draft dodging?  How do you dodge the draft by joining the military?  

I'm sorry, but there isn't anyone on either side of the political fence who thinks that what Jane Fonda did back then wasn't worthy of the brand of traitor.  Her trying to play it off like it was nothing to the press these days frankly disgusts me, and I'm sure it opens up a lot of old animosities with the people who actually had to watch that happen, especially vets.  You don't just do what she did and expect to live it down.  ever.
2728  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Adobe Buys Macromedia FAQ in Plain English on: April 23, 2005, 05:52:49 PM
Yeah, but fireworks is likely to get dumped for imageready, which is a steaming pile
2729  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Adobe Buys Macromedia FAQ in Plain English on: April 23, 2005, 05:17:27 PM
Yeah, this could potentially turn my workflow on it's head in the future.

good thing I started getting into video editing....
2730  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Xbox 360: So ya want backwards compatability? It'll cost you on: April 20, 2005, 03:41:13 AM
If this is true (and I'm definitely taking an "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude here), for me it is a moot point anyway.  I will not own a next generation xbox unless it has a hard-drive anyway.  That was one of the selling points of my current xbox.  that and online play.
2731  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Phantom Dust : Best Crack Ever?? on: April 19, 2005, 02:51:37 PM
my review is up:
2732  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Phantom Dust : Best Crack Ever?? on: April 13, 2005, 05:00:30 PM
Quote from: "Qbe"
Is this game worth playing if you don't have Live?

Yes.  I had a friend over to test split-screen and had a BLAST.  Single player is loads of fun, too.  The real draw is definitely multiplayer, tho
2733  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Phantom Dust : Best Crack Ever?? on: April 13, 2005, 02:46:35 PM
Expect my review of this to go up in the next couple of days.  biggrin
2734  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / The anything BUT Jade Empire discussion thread on: April 13, 2005, 12:44:20 AM
Some Names:

Hung Long
Sho Nuff
Ped Xing
Egg Shen
Lo Pan
Wang Chung
2735  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Do you post at the Octopus Overlords too ? on: April 12, 2005, 03:44:14 AM
I lurk over there sometimes, but I've never registered or have posted.  It's not necessarily out of loyalty to here or anything, more that I just havn't found a thread I've felt motivated enough to register to post in.  Mostly I just poke around every now and then to see if there's any sign of them actually doing something with the site.  Every thread that starts off as a serious discussion about the direction the site is going ends up like the end of a 70s sitcom- somebody cracks a joke and the laughtrack starts.  But instead of the credits rolling, someone else cracks a joke and the laughtrack starts again, ad infinitum.  It just strikes me as a little, well, masturbatory.  Seriously, the 'meta-forum' might as well be called 'circle-jerk'.  Now, that may come off as harsh, but I was honestly hoping for something more interesting than that over there.  I watched the 'Artist wanted' thread for weeks as it devolved into an MS paint scribble war and eventually left in disgust.  I would have offered my help with their art needs out of loyalty to Gone Gold alone if I thought they had any focus on making that site more than just a forum of ex- gone-golders stuck in the same rut Gone Gold was in before it's demise.

And that's all I'm going to say on the matter.  I've kept that in for a while mostly because I don't want to rankle the cross posters and fine people running OO, I have nothing against them.  I'm just disappointed they haven't taken the opportunity they've been given to turn that site into something better than the lowest point of the awesome site that was Gone Gold.
2736  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / More song fun on: April 08, 2005, 07:33:44 PM
I've got my pride.
I drink my wine.
I drink only the finest 'cept I haven't had a drop in several months- or were it years.
2737  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / More song fun on: April 08, 2005, 03:16:01 PM
"They call me Mr. Knowitall, I am so eloquent.  Perfection is my middle name, and whatever rhymes with eloquent!"
2738  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Sin City- The Movie on: March 30, 2005, 12:32:19 AM
Word is that Paramount is eyeing how well Sin City does this weekend to give them an indication on how they approach Watchmen- if it does do good, then perhaps we might see how more comic related films adhering much closer to their source material in the future....
2739  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Sin City- The Movie on: March 28, 2005, 06:02:10 PM
Actualy, the way I hear it, Miller actually wasn't on set co-directing so much as Rodriguez was adhering so close to the comics, pulling it almost frame by frame from them, that he felt Miller deserved the credit of co-director, which is why the DGA was saying no way.

I read an interview a few months back where he was talking about doing Madman after this, with Mike Allred in the same capacity as Frank was for this film, which I'm really damn excited about as Madman is one of my all-time faves.  There has also been discussion recently about doing another Sin City movie as well.

Rodriguez is cool as shit- I got to see him speak at SXSW a couple of years back.  A very down to earth laid-back individual whom I could see myself just hanging out with and bouncing crazy ideas off of each other till the wee hours of the morning.  I'm glad he's giving the finger to the bullshit system that Hollywood perpetuates, especially now that he's actually come out with a solid movie like this.
2740  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Sin City- The Movie on: March 28, 2005, 05:15:21 PM
Wow.  I caught a screening of this on Friday and I and everybody I saw it with can't stop talking about it.  Rodriguez has a Pulp Fiction level hit on his hands here, and I suspect it will do incredibly well at the box office as soon as word gets out.  It is by far his best work to date and a damn fine movie.  So far the only negative review on Rotten Tomatoes basically bitches about the genre rather than the movie (ok, your'e going to complain about the lack of moral fibre of the characters in a noir film called Sin City?  what?!?!?), but I suspect it'll end up in the mid to high 90's once all the reviews come in.

Seriously a must-see movie.  I smell a sleeper hit.
2741  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / It's my birthday- let's get some games on! on: March 06, 2005, 05:30:11 PM
Hey all, today is my birthday, and I plan on gaming pretty much nonstop unibrow . Currently, I'm giving my new copy of Oddworld Stranger a spin, but want to get some online action this afternoon and evening. If anyone is interested, my online gaming consists of the following: xbox- halo2, crimson skies, godzilla save the earth, and unreal champ 2 demo (really wanna give this a spin). PC- Half Life 2 (and CS:S), UT2K4 (which I've been itching to play again), Kohan 2, and Axis & Allies.

Anyone down for some gaming?
2742  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / New Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy trailer on: February 27, 2005, 12:19:09 AM
That trailer took me from slightly worried and trying to play down my enthusiasm to OMFG I GOTTA SEE THIS MOVIE!!!!.

best.  trailer.  ever!!!!!! unibrow
2743  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Xbox RPG's - the future just got **much** brighter.... on: February 24, 2005, 09:47:52 PM
Quote from: "Qbe"
So does this mean that the Xbox is now going to end up with a bunch of Final Fantasy clones in an attempt to compete with the Playstation for the RPG market?  I hope not.

And for those of us without a Playstation this is a bad thing? :\
2744  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Xbox RPG's - the future just got **much** brighter.... on: February 24, 2005, 09:23:50 PM
Chances are this will open up the Japanese market a bit more as well.....
2745  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Post Padding at its finest... on: February 24, 2005, 06:08:28 PM
Why?  because we actually talk about stuff that's important?  unibrow
2746  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Its time.... "What are you playing?" on: February 24, 2005, 03:57:05 PM
I'll be on this evening for the UC2 demo action w/ Ron.

I just finished Half Life 2 (love it!), THUG2, and tinkering a bit with my son's copy of Pikimin.  Plan to finish up Halo 2 soon.  My b-day is coming up and I'm wondering what to ask for, as I've decided to spend all day drinking beer, napping, and playing video games.... biggrin
2747  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / [Live] Unreal Championship 2 demo - 2/19/05 on: February 20, 2005, 02:49:01 AM
I do!  I wanna give it a shot!
2748  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Loonatics? [Updated with more loathsome images!] on: February 19, 2005, 12:58:33 AM
They even have different names-
    * Slick (Wile E. Coyote)
    * Roadster (Road Runner)
    * Spaz (Taz)
    * Lexi (Lola Bunny)
    * Duck (Daffy Duck)
    * Buzz (Bugs Bunny)

oh, but wait, there's even a promo:

You thought Space Jam and Looney Tunes Back In Action raped your childhood?  puke  puke

This is for you WB, first for cancelling Angel and now especially for this:
 finger  finger  finger  finger  finger
2749  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Loonatics? [Updated with more loathsome images!] on: February 18, 2005, 08:52:20 PM
so, basically, they have turned them into power rangers.

where's my big-ass rolly eyes.....
2750  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Internet Explorer 7 this summer on: February 17, 2005, 06:20:11 AM
pretty much every current browser has tabs- opera, safari, camino, netscape, etc.

shouldn't be a problem.

besides, Firefox is open source, isn't it?
2751  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / PSP pics ... holy *@#$%^&*!!! (56K warning) on: February 16, 2005, 04:21:37 PM
no, it's definitely photoshopped, and poorly too- you can see the edges of the image underneath.
2752  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Internet Explorer 7 this summer on: February 16, 2005, 03:13:04 AM
Yeah, I'm anxious to hear this too- what changes?
2753  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Email App? on: February 15, 2005, 05:48:30 PM
Oh, and I have 50 gmail invites if anyone wants one....
2754  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Email App? on: February 15, 2005, 04:40:07 PM
there is a gmail alert program you can install, I think
2755  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / DVD Tuesday - 2/15/05 on: February 15, 2005, 04:12:39 PM
If you like mindfuck style movies then go with Donnie Darko.  I loved it, and have been eagerly awaiting the director's cut for some time.  The soundtrack is awesome as well (same guy did the soundtrack for Wonderfalls, btw)

It's one of those movies that my wife and I actually watched 2 or 3 times back to back and discussed at long length for days afterward.
2756  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Email App? on: February 15, 2005, 04:08:25 PM
I used to use thunderbird, but then I got gmail.  best spam filters I've seen yet, and the service just keeps on getting better.  threaded emails rock!
2757  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / You guys have all worked so hard, it's time for a break on: February 15, 2005, 02:48:11 AM

makes me want to imagineer something....
2758  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Whow this forum is almost dead on: February 14, 2005, 03:28:25 AM
I guess what I was getting at was, I, personally, was tired of the 'hoppin' forum but nearly dead main site that Gone Gold had become.  I loved it when both aspects of the site were alive and kicking, when content was updated almost DAILY.  I did the forum only thing during that decline, hoping that one day, there would be another Roll Call, or game review, or weekly value....  Coming here was a welcome change for me.

Forgive me for attempting to marginalize this forum, I misspoke.  I think that the best representation of this site relies on both reader interaction as well as original site content equally.  I guess I'm just a little more partial to front end of things 'cause that's what I spend the most time on.  biggrin
2759  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / What happened to 94.9 Zeta??! on: February 14, 2005, 01:04:37 AM
same thing happened here in Houston.  same damn name even.

Not that I cared TOO much for the station it replaced (radio is currently a wasteland of mediocrity), but I liked it a lot better than the one that supplanted it.
2760  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Whow this forum is almost dead on: February 13, 2005, 10:14:24 PM
Quote from: "gameoverman"

Plus, you might want to have a sticky at the top of each forum with a brief snippet of relevant(ie PC news in the Pc gaming forum, General news in off topic, etc) news for the day, and links to the pages with full coverage of that news.  

That way people in the forums can keep up to date without actually leaving the forums, unless there is news that they want to leave for.  

See, for all of us hard working staff members, the main site actually comes before the forums in importance, and we strive to make it the same way for our readers.  Putting the top news in a forum thread not only would give us more work, but totally defeats the purpose.  

Don't get me wrong, i love having a good forum to post in, but these forums are just a small fraction of what's going on with this site. Mind you, we do have plans for more compelling and original front page content to complement our in-depth game reviews, but the forum is definitely a small part of a much bigger picture.
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