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2081  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Wednesday Evening on: August 25, 2010, 03:52:37 PM
oh and we may have missed the wolves so far but weve kept our known contingent pretty intact.  The hunter has played a major role in this game so  props to Stessier!   JUst my advice since Ill probably be wolf kibble very soon but weve tagged the flamboyant and vocal people with no luck...   look to those hiding in the shadows.  Except Flatlander of course who just kinda disappeared.  Glad I scanned him now because otherwise we would have had to waste a lynch on him, just to be sure.  Anyway,  lets kick some major wolf but tommorrow!
2082  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Wednesday Evening on: August 25, 2010, 03:47:14 PM
that sounds like something a wolf would say  icon_wink
2083  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Wednesday Morning on: August 25, 2010, 02:28:36 AM
Alive to see another day smile  Unfortunately I did not discover the identity of one of our wolvish tormentors.  You can rest assurred thought that Isgrimnur is not lycan.  I probably will not survive another day so Ill get this party started right here and now.  My list of suspects ran   Isgrimnur, Jay Dee and Rickfc.   So going with that in mind I feel its time to put Jay Dee to the test.  


Oh and thanks for the well wishes.  1st time in a cast and trust me the novelty of it wears off real darn quick, though there is a silver lining.  It was a work related incident so I get the rest of the week off paid.....  Yeah  nice  but not worth it .


Now lets get us a wolf guys!
2084  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Evening on: August 24, 2010, 11:12:35 PM
My apologies everybody.  Monday I spent most of the day getting an MRI and then a cast on my left leg  ( blew up my achilles tendon ) and I got tied up today as it is my birthday.  I will send request out asap.  Once agin sorry for the delay. 
2085  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Evening on: August 24, 2010, 10:41:01 AM
no worries Rickfc,  that was just for fun and way too easy to pass up.
2086  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: New Neverwinter Nights! Called 'Neverwinter" on: August 24, 2010, 12:49:04 AM
actually Im interested to see what they do with this.  5 player online co-op sounds like it could be a nice niche for them.  With the prospects of user developed content, the potential is  massive.  It sounds like they are taking the pnp game and giving you the chance to get together with a group of friends and run thru a campaign online.  I can see that they are limiting the classes somewhat but perhaps it is thier intent to add additional content in the future.  Plus depending on how robust the tools they release are its possible that a lot of what they are leaving out can be worked in through users.  It will be interesting to see how this all works out but I plan on remaining optomistic until they prove me wrong, instead of shredding this thing before I have any solid reason to.
2087  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Evening on: August 23, 2010, 07:58:25 PM
hmmm  interesting that rickfc posted a thread telling us exactly what the wolves are thinking right now.  One has to ponder how he has become privy to such specific information.  My rickfc, what big eyes you have!
2088  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Evening on: August 22, 2010, 11:57:24 PM
Damn,  rough weekend for me in real life.  Sorry Newcastle,  wish you were a wolf but dont worry youll be joined by me very soon I think.  I really want to hear from the "known" innocents as to thier opinions regarding my scan tonite.  It will most likely be my last and I want to make it count.  My origonal plan when Isgrimnur was on the bubble was to scan Newcastle but with him gone that has all changed. Hunter I will need protection tonite if Im to get that last scan.  The wolves will most certainly play the odds, because if you dont protect me I die tonite, if you do I die tommorrow.  They may play a game and go for a different target but since they guarantee minimizing my scans to one by hitting me tonite, its the best bet for them.  Obviously its up to you but that one scan could win us the game.  Theres a lot riding on tonite, lets make this one a night the wolves will regret. 
2089  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 21, 2010, 07:07:17 PM

Quote from: newcastle on August 21, 2010, 05:44:14 PM



The funny thing about Isgrinmur right now...is that he is hanging around the 5th vote. I would actually expect a wolf to swoop in and knock him out. The only other scenario i can think of is there is a wolf already on the vote.

Or Isgrimnur is in fact a wolf and the other wolf hasnt voted and doesnt want to push him over.  Of course since we believe Stessier to be the priest that only leaves Misguided as the potential wolf in that scenario.  Not saying Misguided is lycan but it is an interesting situation, no?
2090  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 21, 2010, 10:56:07 AM
As requested I held off on Isgrimnur till he had the chnace to speak.  I didnt see anything there that would change my opinion so....



Isgrimnur
2091  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: August 21, 2010, 02:15:47 AM
from the white note to the side it looks like the whole sole saving thing is a limited time offer.
2092  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 21, 2010, 02:14:10 AM
You know Stessier, youre right.  Isgrimnur deserves the opportunity to speak on his own behalf.  It is no more than I asked for myself and Id hate for him to get pushed over without that shot.  So for now I withdraw Isgrimnur
2093  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 21, 2010, 12:47:10 AM

Quote from: stessier on August 20, 2010, 11:51:53 PM

I strongly suggest everyone back off Isgrimnur until everyone has a chance to disavow Seer.  Everyone has not checked in yet!

Im cool with that but if we wait on Flatlander we may be here til September  Tongue
2094  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Getting that time of year..Oktoberfest girls..NSFW on: August 20, 2010, 11:45:19 PM
so  wheres the picture eh?  Still I say thats a price well paid.
2095  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 20, 2010, 11:44:12 PM
Isgrimnur has concerned me for a while now and he is one of my primary suspects.  Im still very uneasy around Newcastle but if Isgrimnur shows fur then I can be a bit more accepting,  if he doesnt then Newcastle is firmly back in my crosshairs.  Since the rest of the villagers didnt rally to my call out on Newcastle I will withdraw Newcastle and vote to see Isgrimnur swing.
2096  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 20, 2010, 10:46:21 PM

Quote from: newcastle on August 20, 2010, 07:40:36 PM

Rshetts2 - why scan flats?


He came out to post a lynch choice and then disappeared into the shadows.  I thought that to be a bit wolfish.

at the time it seemed like a good idea...  you thought so as well  
 

Quote from: newcastle on August 13, 2010, 05:12:47 PM

can the seer do me a favor and scan isgrinmur or flatlander? or even Rick-sidofslawchicken...
those folks intrigue me.

as did rickfc...

Quote from: rickfc on August 13, 2010, 05:15:25 PM


At this point, I would agree with Flatlander, just for the innocent villager comment he made early on.  I have no read on Izzy, and I'm just a common villager.  Obviously there's no way for me to prove this, so scan away, if you must.  Just know in advance that it'll be a wasted scan...

  
2097  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 20, 2010, 06:50:31 PM
Hey everybody.  Just wanted to assure you that I am not a wolf.  There is something here to take notice of though.  Its interesting that when I requested that I get some time to speak, Newcastle started thumping the drum to get me lynched, yeah the same Newcastle that has been sowing confusion and dissension from the beginning and has aslo started this latest lynch mob.  Why is he so interested in seeing me gone? He states he wants to hear from people and that information is so very important and yet now he wants to silence me.   Perhaps its because my impressions were correct.  I have been singled out because I felt the big push for threat matrix info was far more beneficial at this stage for the wolves than for us villagers.  The only argument put forth against my statements is that I am wrong.  No reasons as to why, just that I m wrong.  And yet the very thing I feared, early exposure of our specials is exactly what has happened.  I am convinced that we have been played and Newcastle is pulling the strings.  I believe he is in fact a wolf but even if he isnt his actions are dangerous and detrimental to the villagers and for that reason alone he needs to be removed from the equation.  withdraw Isgrimnur    Lynch Newcastle

Ill also throw this out there since by forcing my hand, hiding it seems pointless.  Our wolves seem quite savvy,  they know who is an innocent and who isnt.  They know I am not a wolf and recent events have lead me to believe that theyve figured out that I am the Seer.  Ill let you know that Flatlander is an innocent, though with his lack of participation it doesnt help much.  I have a few other suspects I would like to scan and since I most likely only have 1 scan left I ask you to join me in removing Newcastle from doing us any further damage so I can use my final scan on one of my other possiblities.  We have quite few "knowns" out now, we need to get together and find us a wolf.
2098  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 20, 2010, 03:27:40 PM
I'm at work right now and have one request. Before you get on the lynch rshetts train give me time to have a say.  I'll be home by 3pm.  Please hold off til then.   
2099  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 20, 2010, 09:06:18 AM
well in light of the alleged hunters reveal I will Withdraw stessier  I have to believe Moliere as no one has come out to counter him and as the wolves have killed no one yet faking as the hunter would be a very risky move.  Isgrimnur has been a suspect for awhile and since our hunters instincts have served us well so far I will back his play.  Isgrimnur the bell tolls for thee.  OH and if Im a wolf Newcastle, Im sure sticking my neck out alot.  You may want to concentrate your efforts on someone a bit more hairy than I as I am an innocent voyager.  Having me lynched would only serve the wolves interests 
2100  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 20, 2010, 12:44:54 AM
Hate the non edit thing even though I understand its need.  I am a lousy typist and an even worse on the spot editor.  So for the sake of clarity that lynch vote was for Stessier  not Stressier as I originally stated.   retard
2101  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: I must have this steam punk'ish mouse!!!!!!!!!!!! on: August 19, 2010, 11:12:45 PM
Checked the site out and theres also a extremely cool looking monitor built into a framework that allows you to position it vertically or horizontally.  Practical?  who knows?  awesome looking?  definitely
2102  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 19, 2010, 08:10:19 PM
Ok  Ive sifted thru things and have a few things that pinged my wolfdar.  Im very interested as to why Stressier has at times supported a threat matrix and even called someone out as to their views on it and yet has kept a fairly low profile while producing no matrix of his own.  There has been some strange stuff going on here but this is the first thing I can solidly point to as suspicious.  Because of this I feel compelled to withdraw einsteinium  and in turn point the fickled finger of fate at Stressier
2103  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced on: August 19, 2010, 02:13:00 PM
I think it looks just fine.  It should be a nice diversion from the standard " go bullseye 10 wamprats and bring their hides back to Uncle Owen " type of quests that I'm sure we will have too many of.
2104  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 19, 2010, 01:09:05 PM
welcome back Ein.  I have to tell you though I find it eerily supernatural, when a person gets their guts torn open, have organs removed, get sewn back up and is back in a day. eek   I'm thinking there's something particularly lycan about all of that!
 Just kiddin of course,  glad you're back and I hope you have a swift recovery!
2105  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: A Cataclysm coming to WoW: Direct X 11 on: August 19, 2010, 01:17:53 AM
if its your plan to power level a toon for cataclysm then I recommend you get Quest Helper.  It will speed things up substantially.   Bartender is a great addon, you can customise your bars anyway you like with it.
2106  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Anyone ever have Gall Bladder Surgery? on: August 19, 2010, 12:45:33 AM
Glad to hear things went well.  Once you heal youll be amazed at how great it feels to be rid of the cronic pain your gb was causing.   Oh and chances are that wasnt a nazgul blade,  its seems more likely it was a bears claw.
2107  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 19, 2010, 12:42:28 AM

Quote from: JayDee on August 19, 2010, 12:36:53 AM

Quote from: Moliere on August 19, 2010, 12:05:27 AM

Quote from: Einsteinium on August 18, 2010, 11:58:43 PM

Hey everyone, home from surgery. I'll post something tomorrow, as there appear to be 3 pages of stuff to go through.

Sounds like something a wolf would say.  icon_twisted

Implying that someone who just had surgery is a wolf sounds like something a wolf would say.  icon_twisted

and that of course sounds like something a wolf would say  Tongue
2108  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 18, 2010, 10:05:41 PM
of course since we cant edit I caught that I mistakenly replied as if to Newcastle instead of Stessier after I posted the reply.
2109  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 18, 2010, 09:49:27 PM

Quote from: stessier on August 18, 2010, 03:45:22 PM

Quote from: rshetts2 on August 17, 2010, 11:56:34 PM

Newcastle, I understand the usefulness of a threat matrix and I also understand the fear of making your suspicions too well known.  If you do have a good handle on a wolf letting him know can be a death sentence.

I don't understand this thinking.

Perhaps people have the wrong view of this game.  If you are a simple Villager, you should hope most fervently that you will die at night.  Yes, it kind of stinks from a game play perspective, but a Villager dying means a Special didn't.  And, in general, our odds of winning increase every day our Specials see a sunrise.  (In the unique case where our Specials ride the short bus, we might be better off having them die, but it's very, very rare.  For instance, one time a Seer rescanned a player in a game without conversion - just to be sure.    icon_eek  retard   icon_lol)

Additionally, how do you expect to lynch a wolf without convincing the rest of us that someone is a wolf?  Do you hope we all just have a simultaneous epiphany and change our votes all at once?

Finally, how much has Moliere played before this game?

I fully understand the role that a simple villager plays Newcastle.  The wolves are going to kill someone ( barring a great block from our hunter ) each nite and you dont want it to be a special. Every time they drop a non special its a win for us.  Regarding the threat matrix,  I guess I was trying to be subtle and not come right out and say forcing the seer, priest or hunter to draw attention to themselves through a threat matrix this early is a risky thing.  They are kibble the minute they become exposed and adding risk to thier roles this early on seems to be a bad bet especially since the info derived from this is thin.  Add in the fact that if everyone provides a threat matrix, there are two that will be from wolves.  You say it increases their chance of exposure, but it also provides them an avenue to filter in misinformation.  The problem is the wolves will know that it is bad info, the villagers will not.  The wolves will be operating off our intel while we have a mixture of flawed intel to deal with.  Oh and for the record, I was one of the first to provide a threat matrix. I know that its a handy tool but just feel that its a risky one as well this early.  There are important people in our community who will help our chances of survival,  I want to give them a chance to do just that.    One last thing,  I am very new at this WW thing, my first foray into it was our last shortened game,  so my logic reasoning is based on minimal experience.  If its not valid feel free to explain where Ive gone wrong.  In every completed game here at GT the wolves have had their way....  that is a trend that needs to come to an end with this one.
2110  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 17, 2010, 11:56:34 PM
yep,  this is a tough one.  The ones who seem most suspicious are probably just trying to scare up a wolf.  Its really hard to tell. It appears that most of whats going on could either be a wolf pulling strings or a voyager hoping for a slip.  Thats the problem here, separating the deception from the facts.  On top of that there have been a few quiet ones who may be wolves keeping a low profile or a voyager who wants to keep alive by not bringing attention to himself.  Newcastle, I understand the usefulness of a threat matrix and I also understand the fear of making your suspicions too well known.  If you do have a good handle on a wolf letting him know can be a death sentence.  Of course a smart wolf wont finish you off with claws, he will try to have you lynched.  Anyway,  I put up my basic opinions earlier and really not much has come up that changes things.  Theres been no action that seems definitively wolfish, that cant be easily explained form a voyagers perspective. so at this point Im going to go with my gut.  Theres one person whos actions have been a bit off and confusing, I understand he has real life surgery issues but that doesnt preclude him from being a wolf.  Im thinking that the confusion is a smokescreen and vote for Einsteinium    I hope the surgery went well and I wish you the best with your recovery......  but you seem a bit feral so there you have it.
2111  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 17, 2010, 07:58:35 PM
< cue tv announcers voice >    What do you get when you cross shipwrecked voyagers in a deserted island village with lycanthrope?  Comedy gold!  And thats the beginning!  Throw in lynch mobs and power struggles and you have NBC's new fall comedy series Issie and Newcastle.  Coming Tuesdays at 9pm EST this fall!

Well guys things got a bit active while I was at work today.  Im beginning to wonder if we have a two wolf good villager/ bad villager show going here.  It could of course be two diametrically opposed points of view poking at each other or it could be an extremely insidious plot to completely blind us.  It would be a helluva con if Newcastle and Isgrimnur were playing us.  If we jump and lynch Isgrimnur based on Newcastles leadership and nab a wolf, then Newcastle would pretty much take control of the path we take as well as cloaking himself in innocence.  If he were the other wolf we would be handing him our fate.  Of course I doubt thats the case, as that would be a risky game with the seer still out there but it is food for thought.
2112  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: XBox 360...finally safe to buy? on: August 16, 2010, 11:02:46 PM
the slim is cooler, quieter (by far),  has hdmi, nice touch control buttons and is smaller than the older models.  It also comes with a 250gig hd.   I havent had any overheating issues with it either.   If you can swing the price I recommend checking into the new one.
2113  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [RANT] work related. Pro Union biased resources need not read/reply on: August 16, 2010, 07:24:30 PM

Quote from: Roman on August 16, 2010, 03:28:12 PM

Thanks to all unions out there for turning an everyday simple exercise into a rolling ball of shit.
Here's a handy hint - stay in school past grade 6 and get an education thereby empowering you to EARN your place in working society rather than demand your place.

Thanks,
Roman





Wow what a narrow minded, misanthropic, generalized and predjudicial statement.  Please feel free to say that to the face of the next union Fireman or union EMS you see saving a life.   
2114  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Teila Tequila gets destroyed on: August 15, 2010, 09:42:28 PM
Yeah,  she got badly messed up.  No matter what her claim to fame is, she didn't deserve that.  I guess she also needs to realize though that fame comes with risk and actions do have consequences.  Sometimes dire ones.
2115  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 15, 2010, 09:39:13 PM
Oh Newcastle, there you go being all logical and such.  I'm starting to think that you're helping, not herding which puts me at a conundrum.  At this point the scales have tipped in your favor and I shall Withdraw Newcastle   I guess I have a bit of reading to do to see if theres a hairy handed gent whos slipped up a bit.  Quite a few people are laying low right now but it is the weekend after all and Im sure some of you have a life smile 



While Im  here, I had a rules question.  I didnt see anything in the rules on this so I figured Id ask.  If the hunter reveals himself can he also reveal the name of his successful protectee, or is that not allowed?   
2116  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 14, 2010, 07:07:09 PM
Hmmm,  didnt think I was being testy, just pointing out some suspicions while trying to preserve my good name but you may indeed try to spin it that way if you wish.  Its still real early to have any definitive suspects but there have been a few interesting things going down.   
   
 Newcastle has been very vocal and is stepping up to a leadership role here.  Did he call out 3 suspects for the seer to scan to guide him away from any wolf?  If he can get the seer to miss his first 3 scans theres a good chance he will be gone before he gets a 4th.  As far as a pack mate, as Misguided mentioned you were very suspicious of rickfc and suddenly you think hes a paragon of virtue,  point him out early and then convince everyone hes safe?  That concerns me.  The best way for a wolf to get us all is to herd us to our deaths,  and you sure seem to be herding us.

Moliere stepped up and pointed the finger of fate right out the gate and has been pretty quiet since.  That could be a good wolf ploy, get things rolling and get other people talking while you slip back into the shadows. 

Isgrinmur scares me simply because fate can be very strange.   2 quick deaths in a row has bought him some sympathy breathing room,  thats a nice advantage for a wolf.  He also seems pretty savvy so while I think hes a voyager, he still scares me a bit.

Einstenium reminds me of a puppy,  jumps at a butterfly then jumps at a grasshopper and then hey whats that smell, ohh Im hungry... kinda all over the place.  Hes probably innocent and Im pretty sure its the pre operation drugs doin him in

Everyone else seems to be poking around and I have no real opinion as of yet but I do think Flatlander is one of the good guys and Misguided as well.

As far as me, Im an innocent and I hope to live long enough to see both wolves swing.  Big props to the hunter for helping bring that reality much closer!
2117  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Tuesday Morning on: August 14, 2010, 04:13:41 PM
Nice analysis Newcastle,  I especially noted all the "we" "they" stuff.  Seems like youre laying down the perfect cover.  Plus calling out the seer and hunter after the hunter bought an extra day,  I find that especially interesting.  While self defense is often seen as an admission of guilt, by calling out my name you sir are barking up the wrong tree.  Still what else should one expect from wolf but a nice conceal and divert post... nicely played Newcastle,  nicely played indeed.
2118  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Anyone ever have Gall Bladder Surgery? on: August 14, 2010, 01:08:36 AM
Good luck to you Ein,  sounds like most people feel this will be a good thing for you.  I havent had my gb removed but I did have a foot of my lower intestine and I can tell you, it was definitely life changing in a very positive way.  Im sure you'll look back on this with no regrets.
2119  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Monday Evening on: August 13, 2010, 06:53:20 PM
Yes Im here.  Since my real life job has me working from 5:30 am til 2:30pm, most of my silence is due to work.  Since I didnt see anything too suspicious in Huw's behavior, I didnt see much of a reason to jump on the lynch train. I have indeed kinda laid low though because with this crowd it seems if someone pokes their head up theres somebody else with a big frikkin hammer ready to smack it back down.  Just ask Huw!
2120  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [WW] GT Werewolf IV - By the Light of the Silver Moon - Monday Morning on: August 12, 2010, 03:39:34 PM
it's a tough choice on a day one lynching.  I guess since we have to choose someone, I'll go with Moliere because his name starts with an M,  which is an inverted W, which as we know stands for wolf.  Yeah, it's thin but it's all I've got.
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