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2401  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: MSNBC has no tact on: April 17, 2008, 01:22:23 AM
Is this finally the first topic we can all agree on???


 finger msnbc
2402  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: General Grand Theft Auto IV Thread on: April 16, 2008, 04:29:22 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on April 16, 2008, 04:19:47 AM

Quote from: msduncan on April 16, 2008, 04:15:20 AM

My secret fear is having my LAUNCH 360 crap out on me sometime in the next two weeks.

I'm still secretly considering changing my preorder to PS3 for that reason.   Am I paranoid?

didn't we already go through this?  icon_wink

I know I know.    I have to stay the course.     
2403  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: BARACKY! on: April 16, 2008, 04:19:27 AM

Quote from: Captain Caveman on April 16, 2008, 02:21:56 AM


What is amazing to me is that there is that much material and we aren't through the primary season yet!   Holy Moses this has been a long election year already.
2404  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: General Grand Theft Auto IV Thread on: April 16, 2008, 04:15:20 AM
My secret fear is having my LAUNCH 360 crap out on me sometime in the next two weeks.

I'm still secretly considering changing my preorder to PS3 for that reason.   Am I paranoid?
2405  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: OO off line for a short time on: April 16, 2008, 12:21:17 AM

Quote from: Remus West on April 14, 2008, 08:16:31 PM

Quote from: Purge on April 14, 2008, 08:04:48 PM

Quote from: Remus West on April 14, 2008, 07:29:39 PM

Quote from: Purge on April 14, 2008, 07:27:14 PM

I passed your sister, Lady Beet, just last week. I freaked out thinking it was blood.
Last week it was blood.  The next 3 weeks you should be safe. icon_eek

I think maybe the use of the word "passed" was missed on you, friend. slywink
In MSDuncan's honor.  "Roll Tide, roll." icon_eek
Thanks Remus.    Actually I was thinking this thread needed a little of this:



92,000 last year for the spring game.     78,200 this year for the spring game after a 7-6 season.       The tide is still high in Tuscaloosa.    #1 recruting class in the nation 2008.     We're getting back where we belong!   ROLL TIDE!
2406  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Can someone please tell this senile moron to shut up? on: April 15, 2008, 11:20:25 PM

Quote from: Brendan on April 15, 2008, 05:16:45 AM

I think skepticism is warranted given the history of the region.  The Israelis are certainly not going to stop killing leaders of Hamas and the various Fatah factions.  I'm just positing the idea that perhaps "exterminate all the brutes" is not going to achieve the best results.
I would agree with that and also say that the Fatah and Hamas aren't going to stop killing Israelis.
In other words, I don't think there is a peace process, agreement, plan, etc yet invented that will stop them from killing each other.   And this belief isn't based on religious convictions either -- it's based on the thought that these people have been killing each other for so long that neither side is going to stop.  Ever.   Or at least in our lifetimes.
2407  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Oops, he did it again! (wright) on: April 15, 2008, 11:17:04 PM

Quote from: Brendan on April 15, 2008, 11:51:22 AM

Quote from: msduncan on April 15, 2008, 11:35:12 AM

I wonder if you'd be saying the same thing about a Republican candidate that was best buds with an outspoken hatemonger?    Would you really say 'who the fuck cares about his relationship with this racist, what's he going to do about .... .... ..."?

Do you see me starting threads about Hagee or any of the other hatemonger evangelical leaders?  No.  I don't care about them either.

Fair enough.

2408  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: "Dr." Phil bails out teen in beating case on: April 15, 2008, 11:44:06 AM

Quote from: Brendan on April 14, 2008, 08:16:30 PM

I think Dr. Cpt. Caveman's point is that, once you get a PhD, those credentials don't lapse.

Brendan!    We agree on something.    smile

Dr. Phil has earned the right to be called Dr by completing his doctorate.    Dr's in English don't have to keep certifications current -- they earned the degree.
2409  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Oops, he did it again! (wright) on: April 15, 2008, 11:35:12 AM

Quote from: Brendan on April 15, 2008, 05:13:10 AM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 15, 2008, 03:10:59 AM

I guess the point is that it was one of the best speeches on race that I have ever heard.  But speeches are speeches.  Obama is great at the speech but lacking on the action in the eyes of a lot of voters.  The fact is the guy has been Obama's personal pastor for almost twenty years and presided over his wedding.

One of the "best speeches on race" that you've ever heard, and yet it still didn't actually make a difference to you.  Who the fuck cares about who presided over his wedding?  I want to know how he gets health care to American citizens who don't have it.  I want to know how we get my friend back from fucking Afghanistan before the end of another tour of duty.  I want to know if he's going to obey the law and prohibit torture and warrantless wiretapping of American citizens.  Do you seriously think that Senator Obama hates America?  He gave a speech that explicitly addressed his relationship with Wright, that specifically discussed the sensitive nature of race relations in this country, and I'm beginning to think it was a waste of his time.  I'm at the point where I believe there is nothing he could do that would prevent the concern trolling.

I wonder if you'd be saying the same thing about a Republican candidate that was best buds with an outspoken hatemonger?    Would you really say 'who the fuck cares about his relationship with this racist, what's he going to do about .... .... ..."?

And nobody is saying Obama hates America.    We're saying it's interesting who he includes in his inner circle, and what that individual is saying.     I mean I don't know about you, but I don't hang out with racists and if one of the people I knew was as openly racist as Wright, he wouldn't be a friend or confidant for long.
2410  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: What do you look like? on: April 15, 2008, 02:58:37 AM

Quote from: dbt1949 on April 13, 2008, 05:22:21 PM

Here I am enjoying the back porch.

How did that goat get up there?    Admittedly I don't know much about goats, but are they good jumpers or something?
2411  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Oops, he did it again! (wright) on: April 15, 2008, 02:53:39 AM
Quote from: gellar

I'm still pretty sure you are missing the point.  Really, watch it again.  It will make you a better person, I promise.

gellar

I'm pretty sure if I watch it again, Obama will still have a long standing close relationship with an anti-white bigot.
2412  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Oops, he did it again! (wright) on: April 15, 2008, 02:46:38 AM

Quote from: gellar on April 15, 2008, 02:44:03 AM

Quote from: msduncan on April 15, 2008, 02:40:15 AM

Quote from: Brendan on April 14, 2008, 04:42:42 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 14, 2008, 04:35:11 PM

It's sad but that is the way our society works these days.

So opt out of the bullshit and ignore trolling like this thread, and the equivalent in real-world trolling in the news media.  Ignore manufactured outrage.  Make rational decisions about your elected officials based on their positions, their promises, and their records.  Obama has a website with information on his health care plan, his plan for troops in the middle east, his plan for pulling the economy out of the Bush-generated recession, etc.  Conservatives want to push this fucking ridiculous Manchurian candidate meme with their whispers about his middle name, his childhood school in Jakarta, and his pastor.  Just opt out.

Wright continues to put himself in the news this way.    This is why these threads keep coming up.      This man was as close to Obama as a grandfather or even a father figure.    I think we are well within reason to question why this man continues to spout hatred and bigotry on the public scene, and ask why Obama hasn't left that church in the intrest of racial unity and his Presidential aspirations.     Speeches be damned.

No really, I'm pretty sure Obama covered all of this in his speech.  You should watch it again, I think you may have missed something.

gellar

Obama made a good speech that I still contend was nothing more than a fancy wrapped version of "Oh look at brother Wright!  He's wacky and crazy but we love him!".       It was a nut and cup game that took focus off the fact that Obama had and has a long term close relationship with an outspoken anti-white bigot.
2413  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Oops, he did it again! (wright) on: April 15, 2008, 02:45:04 AM

Quote from: CSL on April 14, 2008, 07:02:00 PM

Quote from: msduncan on April 14, 2008, 11:40:08 AM

Wright is up to his old tricks again over the weekend:

Quote
Wright, who is on sabbatical before retiring from Trinity United, said America’s mistreatment of blacks is the result of the founding fathers, who “planted slavery and white supremacy in the DNA of this republic.”

First reported by The Chicago Sun Times, Wright told mourners at the funeral that Thomas Jefferson, who partook in “pedophilia,” would also be considered unpatriotic these days because he wrote, “God would punish America for the sin of slavery.” He also quoted Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who said that the U.S. has a “congenital birth defect.”

Slam founding fathers -- check.
Paint with broad brush -- check.
Inflammatory remarks  -- check.




Why should the founding fathers get any pass? I mean they did perpetuate the sin of slavery. Sure some of his comments are rather suspect and inflammatory but they have a strong strain of truth to them. The United States was born flawed and it would be rather wrong to say otherwise.

There was fierce debate in the Constitutional convention about slavery.     Some of the Representatives were indeed in favor of slavery.    There were a bunch that were not.    The framers decided to table the issue to be delt with later in the interest of actually passing a Constitution and saving the Union that was on shakey grounds due to Articles that were not adequate.

So yes...there were people in favor of slavery at the time.    But it was the times they lived in and operated in.   I'm more impressed that a good number of founders actually argued that it should be abolished at the time.    I don't think this is the same as a preacher bringing up something that not a single living soul has endured nor perpetrated upon another.      This is wedge to keep the masses in check, and to keep the power within certain elements of the black leadership.  (not Obama -- people like Wright and Jessie Jackson).
2414  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Oops, he did it again! (wright) on: April 15, 2008, 02:40:15 AM

Quote from: Brendan on April 14, 2008, 04:42:42 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 14, 2008, 04:35:11 PM

It's sad but that is the way our society works these days.

So opt out of the bullshit and ignore trolling like this thread, and the equivalent in real-world trolling in the news media.  Ignore manufactured outrage.  Make rational decisions about your elected officials based on their positions, their promises, and their records.  Obama has a website with information on his health care plan, his plan for troops in the middle east, his plan for pulling the economy out of the Bush-generated recession, etc.  Conservatives want to push this fucking ridiculous Manchurian candidate meme with their whispers about his middle name, his childhood school in Jakarta, and his pastor.  Just opt out.

Wright continues to put himself in the news this way.    This is why these threads keep coming up.      This man was as close to Obama as a grandfather or even a father figure.    I think we are well within reason to question why this man continues to spout hatred and bigotry on the public scene, and ask why Obama hasn't left that church in the intrest of racial unity and his Presidential aspirations.     Speeches be damned.
2415  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Obama and gun rghts on: April 14, 2008, 11:48:05 AM
In response to the uproar over his comments about 'clinging' to guns last week, he appeared to try to clarify this weekend.   The problem is that he sidestepped the issue and used a very common tactic of specifically only mentioning guns in the context of hunters.     This is because he's very anti-guns other than single shot hunting firearms.      See quote from his statement:

Quote
“When people suggest I was somehow being elitist and demeaning hunters when I have repeatedly talked about the tradition that people pass on from generation to generation, hunters and sportsmen, and how I have consistently spoken about my respect for the Second Amendment. When people try to suggest that I was demeaning those traditions, then it sounds like there’s some politics being played.

This does not suprise me as his Illinois record reflected a vote against gun rights very nearly 100% of the votes.   He's been on record saying he wants to eliminate semi-automatic firearms.   

Anyway, as a guy that has watched this topic since the mid 80's, I can say that I've seen this tactic used before even by the Brady Institute --   claim you have good intentions by supporting 'hunters', but on the other hand support heavy gun regulation including bannation of most types of firearms.

2416  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Oops, he did it again! (wright) on: April 14, 2008, 11:40:08 AM
Wright is up to his old tricks again over the weekend:

Quote
Wright, who is on sabbatical before retiring from Trinity United, said America’s mistreatment of blacks is the result of the founding fathers, who “planted slavery and white supremacy in the DNA of this republic.”

First reported by The Chicago Sun Times, Wright told mourners at the funeral that Thomas Jefferson, who partook in “pedophilia,” would also be considered unpatriotic these days because he wrote, “God would punish America for the sin of slavery.” He also quoted Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who said that the U.S. has a “congenital birth defect.”

Slam founding fathers -- check.
Paint with broad brush -- check.
Inflammatory remarks  -- check.


2417  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Debts, per President on: April 13, 2008, 11:55:47 PM
Quote
Likewise, Kerry also came very close to beating Bush, who at the time was viewed as unbeatable.

???    What kind of alternate universe do you live in?

Polling was even throughout the contest in 2004.   It was widely thought among experts that Bush would fail to be reelected due to the unpopular war in Iraq -- at the time the violence was much worse than it is post-surge.     I never once read where Bush was ever, EVER thought to be unbeatable.
2418  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Can someone please tell this senile moron to shut up? on: April 13, 2008, 11:21:43 PM

I have less of a problem including Hamas in talks than I do having a former President of the United States going to meet with a terror group without State Department or executive clearance to do so.     If any other private citizen did this, they'd be brought up on charges.

If the government, State Department, executive, etc decided that they were going to loop Hamas in -- fine.     I'd disagree with it, but I wouldn't have the same kind of problem with it as I do this.    For instance:   you'd see me loudly decrying the decision to do this if Obama did it next year (assuming he gets to be President), but at least then it's coming from the executive and thus an official act.      This is a private citizen deciding to meet with a current enemy of the United States without executive, congressional, or State Department approval.
2419  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Debts, per President on: April 13, 2008, 04:12:38 PM

Quote from: Brendan on April 13, 2008, 03:45:48 PM

Quote from: msduncan on April 13, 2008, 12:43:09 AM

Republicans have never embraced gun control. 

Plenty of republicans have embraced gun control.  I don't need to pull out Giuliani or Romney - the patron saint of right-wing lunacy, President Reagan, signed the Mulford Act as governor of California and supported the Brady Bill (gee - I wonder why.)  The less-awful iteration of a President Bush signed the assault weapons import ban in 1989.
Perhaps I should have said "as a party platform"
2420  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Debts, per President on: April 13, 2008, 12:48:22 AM

Quote from: naednek on April 08, 2008, 02:22:51 AM

Lets all take a step back for a bit and cool off.

Don't make me lock Knightshade Dragon's thread biggrin  That will be a first and my eventual firing biggrin


It was also be hilarious and legendary.    Go down in history naed!!!!!!!!!!!
2421  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Debts, per President on: April 13, 2008, 12:46:29 AM

Quote from: DarkEL on April 08, 2008, 12:22:28 AM

Quote from: th'FOOL on April 08, 2008, 12:14:54 AM

Also, for the record, I have never publicly called for your bannination.  If you want to discuss this further we can certainly do it via PM, as this thread has already been sufficiently derailed.

Yes -- let's get the thread back to vague over-generalizations, blatant self-righteousness, narrow-mindedness and personal attacks and off of sketch comedy please!!!!

You are my Hero of the Day.   Congrats!
2422  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Debts, per President on: April 13, 2008, 12:43:09 AM
Quote
Look at the stance on gun rights, for example: many if not most Dems are now supporting gun rights, and the Repubs are now starting to oppose them.  The forthcoming Supreme Court ruling may actually reveal how firmly against gun rights Republicans really are.

I've read this three times and it still doesn't compute.     This issue is rural vs urban, not Democrat vs Republican.   I used to be an NRA recruiter, and I signed up Independents, Democrats, Republicans, etc.

The Democrats erred and made it a party platform issue in the 90's and lost their behinds doing it.     They wisely decided to listen to rural Democrats and scrapped it from the platform.     Republicans have never embraced gun control. 

And btw -- it's widely thought that the 2nd Amendment will get a favorable ruling in June from the Supreme Court based on the verbal questioning the Justices were engaged in during arguments.
2423  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: What do you look like? on: April 12, 2008, 01:18:55 PM
So THAT is what that costume you have as your avatar looks like.

On Live it just looks like an insect got on your camera.
2424  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: McCain won't rule out pre-emptive war on: April 12, 2008, 04:16:28 AM

Quote from: SuperHiro on April 12, 2008, 04:01:16 AM

Tay Zonday was a better avatar.  That one just says you're an antagonistic jackass.  Mr. Zonday says you love you some Chocolate Rain.



And I can make it thematically appropriate



I do like that modified Tay Zonday.     And that reminds me to get to bed.   I'm going to the Alabama A-day game tomorrow.
2425  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: McCain won't rule out pre-emptive war on: April 12, 2008, 12:16:04 AM

Quote from: CSL on April 11, 2008, 11:23:12 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 11, 2008, 10:55:24 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on April 11, 2008, 09:09:14 PM

Quote from: Exodor on April 11, 2008, 09:00:10 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on April 11, 2008, 08:51:45 PM

Yes, they never have.  Except for Cuba.  And Texas/Mexico.  And that whole genocide thing against the Native Americans.  And Korea.  And Vietnam.  And so on and so forth.

 icon_lol

Explain to me how America's involvement in Vietnam was a pre-emptive war of aggression.

 Bring your own!



Oh, and feel free to address the other situations I mentioned...  I'm sure that will be good viewing  Bring your own!
Hopefully you don't actually intend to cherry-pick your scenarios.

Mine as well throw in WW1 too.  I don't think the Germans or Ausro-Hungarians were likely to attack the US.  Oh and lets put the Korean War in there too.  And the first Gulf War.

Right?


You missed that he did put Korea on his list. Remember folks in the Unbreakable world every combat role ever made by an American government has been preemptive and without cause.

CSL, you can find an entire LIST of wars the United States waged preemptively right here.

 icon_lol
2426  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: McCain won't rule out pre-emptive war on: April 11, 2008, 10:51:59 PM
I have two comments"

1.   It's hard as hell to comment when I can't get here from work.   I leave and go to work and then BOOM... there's been 20 replies.   Damnit! 

2.  I'm not sure I've ever witnessed a forum poster use the technique of linking an empty google search screen twice in the same week until now.   Congrats Unbreakable, that might be a record.
2427  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: B'ham is getting poisoned!!!!!!!! on: April 11, 2008, 11:35:04 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on April 11, 2008, 05:03:43 AM

Quote from: Kratz on April 11, 2008, 04:51:52 AM

You guys sure like some crap.

says the guy who has the Monkees cover band  Tongue  icon_biggrin

 icon_lol icon_lol icon_lol
2428  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: McCain won't rule out pre-emptive war on: April 11, 2008, 12:50:35 AM

Quote from: helot2000 on April 10, 2008, 10:03:26 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 10, 2008, 02:54:32 PM

Why would any President publicly rule out anything?  I doubt any of the 3 remaining candidates would categorically rule out any options publicly.
Because in the post-Bush era, it would be wise to distance ourselves from the flawed parts of the Bush Doctrine.  The "preventative war" we waged in Iraq was misguided from the start.  To say that we might retain the option to pursue this kind of policy sounds like we haven't learned anything.  This column explains it quite effectively.

Quote
Richard Betts of Columbia University's Institute of War and Peace Studies says that a preemptive war is akin to having two cowboys face each other at high noon. One will draw first, shooting in preemptive fashion. A preventive war, on the other hand, would amount to walking up to a cowboy in a saloon while he's playing cards, and shooting him point blank in the head.









I think it's a bad analogy.    A better analogy would be a sheriff walking into a saloon while the bad guy is playing cards and running him out of town before he decides to cause trouble or rob the bank tomorrow.     

Either way -- ruling out a course of action is bad news for a President.    Ruling out a possible course of action that has national security implications underminds any future sabre rattling you might need to do to get a point across -- even if you never plan to use preemptive action or war as an option in reality.
2429  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: GTA IV multiplayer on: April 11, 2008, 12:40:30 AM

Quote from: naednek on April 11, 2008, 12:14:44 AM

yeah, we have a thread talking about GTA IV here which also has covered multiplayer.  http://www.gamingtrend.com/forums/index.php/topic,25725.msg383683.html#msg383683
Awe crap.   Sorry about that.   I thought I had a scoop and didn't realize it was in the other GTA thread.
2430  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / B'ham is getting poisoned!!!!!!!! on: April 11, 2008, 12:11:05 AM
Seriously considering taking action.

Like buying tickets!!!!!!!!!!!!!  biggrin    Should I, or would that make me a loser?
2431  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / GTA IV multiplayer on: April 11, 2008, 12:02:02 AM
Got a GamePro today, and they outlined 4 multiplayer modes and said there were a number they were forbidden to talk about.

Deathmatch -- up to 16 players.    Regular ole deathmatch

Race --   just like it implies... a race

Cops N Crooks --    This sounds awesome.    Crooks have a team and Cops have a team.   Crooks objective is to find the getaway car and get out of the city.   They can only see the location of the getaway car and don't know the location of the cops.   The cops objective is to stop the crooks, and they can't see the location of the getaway car, only the location of the crooks.     

Cooperative --  missions that can be played cooperative.
2432  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Help me become 1337 at COD4 multi on: April 10, 2008, 11:35:36 PM
Heck....  I've been playing since November, and I'm off and on again with skill.   In other words I'll go 4 and 29 last night when some idiots were using map exploints agianst us, 10-12 most games, and then every now and then rail off a 20 - 6 masterpiece.

But mostly I'm pretty mediocre, but the guys here are great and don't judge me for it at all.     I highly encourage getting us on your friends list and you'll have a great time.
2433  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Mario Kart Wii Impressions on: April 10, 2008, 12:04:39 AM
As a preorder holder, I'm a little scared by the early mediocre reviews.
2434  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: OO off line for a short time on: April 09, 2008, 11:25:05 PM

Quote from: warning on April 09, 2008, 11:08:42 PM

Quote from: msduncan on April 09, 2008, 10:49:36 PM

Hey OOers, though I'm taking a break from the OO Politics forum I just wanted to flaunt my new avatar here.     nod  icon_lol

My avatar could beat your avatar in a fight.

But he would no more fight my avatar than he would his own grandmother....
2435  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: GTA IV console choices on: April 09, 2008, 11:05:09 PM
Damn you Hark.

Fine.  I'll keep my 360 CE preorder.
2436  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: OO off line for a short time on: April 09, 2008, 10:49:36 PM
Hey OOers, though I'm taking a break from the OO Politics forum I just wanted to flaunt my new avatar here.     nod  icon_lol
2437  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Liberal Ice Shelf continues to show how much it hates Bush on: April 09, 2008, 10:32:11 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on April 09, 2008, 12:50:11 PM

Quote from: msduncan on April 09, 2008, 12:01:26 PM


I'm saying all of that to let you know that at least at the company where I work they've been working to try to get 4 or 5 nuclear plants on the board for nearly a decade, but it will probably still be 5 to 10 years before they are realized.    It takes a LOT of time.


We may be using a different definition of "underway".  I think underway - at the very least - means plans drawn, site finalized and application filed.  Otherwise, it's nothing more than a potential project still in the ROI and feasibility analysis process.  I don't see those projects as being underway, but as potential business opportunities.  If every utility project that was in this phase was realized, we'd have enough power surplus to power 1/2 the world. 

And yes, I know all about regulatory rates.  I used to have to write and file rate tariffs.  It sucks.

So the only conclusion is that you are talking about planning projects, which means that no application has been filed and still in the pre-construction, pre-approval, pre-approval filing stage.  Those costs are fairly minor in the scheme of things and projects in this phase are easily disposable.  When you start doing the sitework for the project or you've filed the application, I'd call it underway...that's when the hard costs start hitting the income statement and balance sheet.


Plans being drawn up also depend heavily on the location, as each have different cooling methods, etc.    But yes the costs are not that great in those stages -- the problem is that it just takes a lot of time.    Costs not so much -- time.... potentially considerable to design, plan, locate, get approvals, etc.


And btw--  the following link from nerc seems to indicate that there are a fairly good number in the works:  link
Believe me, when they get to the application stage, they are fairly far along.
2438  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Liberal Ice Shelf continues to show how much it hates Bush on: April 09, 2008, 10:28:03 PM

Quote from: Eightball on April 09, 2008, 02:09:08 PM

Quote from: msduncan on April 09, 2008, 12:01:26 PM

The second huge hurdle is to attempt to get it funded in rates -- which are controlled by PSC's since power company profits are strictly controlled by the government and you have to get permission to change rates in order to keep your relgulated rates the same.     Unlike oil companies -- our profits never soar into ridiculous areas and stay static constantly unless the PSC's allow raising of rates for specific reasons.

Hah, unless you live in one of the states that thought deregulation was a good idea.

Like mine.

Our energy prices have absolutely skyrocketed here.

My company was selling power to California like a mofo that summer of all the brownouts.  smile
2439  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Liberal Ice Shelf continues to show how much it hates Bush on: April 09, 2008, 12:01:26 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on April 09, 2008, 01:50:45 AM

Quote from: msduncan on April 09, 2008, 12:16:48 AM


Nuclear is good, but it takes years to get approval for a place to build a plant, then it takes years worth of bueracratic navigation to get permits, etc, etc to build a plant.     There are a number of nuclear plant projects currently underway, but they were started years ago and will take years yet to finish.


False.

The first nuclear power plant application to be received by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in over 30 years was received just last year.  Therefore, there are no real projects that were started "years ago" because there hasn't been a new project started in well over 30 years.  The Energy Information Administration in its Annual Energy Outlook 2003 projected in its reference case that no nuclear units will become operable between 2001 and 2025.  I think the last nuclear plant to go online was back in '96 - the Watts Bar plant in TN. 

True.   I ought to know a little about this topc as I work for a ultility.   The process to build a nuclear plant starts years before the application is filed with the NRC.     They have to go through numerous hoops prior to ever putting in that application.    The first and biggest hurdle is to find an approved site -- which many communities deny.   This can take years and has many minor approval hurdles and such invoving enironmental legislation and such. The second huge hurdle is to attempt to get it funded in rates -- which are controlled by PSC's since power company profits are strictly controlled by the government and you have to get permission to change rates in order to keep your relgulated rates the same.     Unlike oil companies -- our profits never soar into ridiculous areas and stay static constantly unless the PSC's allow raising of rates for specific reasons.

I'm saying all of that to let you know that at least at the company where I work they've been working to try to get 4 or 5 nuclear plants on the board for nearly a decade, but it will probably still be 5 to 10 years before they are realized.    It takes a LOT of time.
2440  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Liberal Ice Shelf continues to show how much it hates Bush on: April 09, 2008, 12:47:52 AM

Quote from: Exodor on April 09, 2008, 12:43:59 AM

Websense blocks GT at my work too - but not OO.


Maybe they key is to leave the word "gaming" out of the site name? 

I propose they change the name of this site to Gangstatrend

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