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3161  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 05, 2004, 08:00:10 PM
Quote from: "Butterknife"
And I think bigotry is morally wrong but sadly I seem to be in the minority on that

No more bigoted than making a law against murder.

Bad example.  Since murder takes away another person's right to "life, lliberty and the pursuit of happiness" it is not hard to argue it should be illegal.
3162  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 05, 2004, 07:58:24 PM
Quote from: "Butterknife"
hehehe -- OK, I get it now, the religion thing is just baiting.  Forgive me for rising to it.   I honestly thought there were some of you attempting to understand.

I for one was trying to get real information.  I find it baffaling and was enjoying the real dialogue about the subject.


Now, on to the actual subject.  Homosexuality is morally wrong, as far as I am concerned.  We have every right as Americans to make laws against things that we believe to be morally wrong.  For example, I'd say 99% of Americans believe murder to be morally wrong.  Therefore, we have laws against murder.  But, undoubtedly, a small percentage of the population believes murder to be OK.  As far as those few people are concerned, it is "wrong" to make a law against murder.

America is ruled by the majority, not the minority.  Majorities, in theory, make the rules.  At the same time, the Bill of Rights is meant to protect the minorities against the majorities (who often need the protection).  The question becomes, then, whether or not marriage is a right.  We have certain rights in this country, but I believe you'd have a hard time proving that marriage is a right (my argument from the beginning).  If it is not a right, then the American majority can make a law forbidding marriage to homosexuals.

I think this is a place we disagree.  I believe that our country was founded specifically so that majorities couldn't dictate laws.  The Constitution was setup exactly to for that reason.  We didn't want the "tryanny of the masses"

One of the blessings of being an American is that there are certain rights which cannot be taken away just because the "majority" wants them taken away.  


Personally, I think it's great that majorities decide the laws, not minorities.  Although I am in the majority on this particular issue, I often find that I am in a minority on other issues.  But I would still fiercely argue that the majority has every right to govern and make the laws -- it is the fundamental principle of democracy.

Really?  So if the majority of people said that all dwarves, blind people, mental handicapped people should be forced to be sterilized so they couldn't have children you would be fine with that?

If the "majority" said that blacks couldn't vote you would be fine with that?

If the "majority" said that women didn't have the right to vote you would be fine with that?
3163  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 05, 2004, 06:56:03 PM
Quote from: "Jeff Jones"
Quote from: "JCC"
I just don't get why the people who are so passionately opposed to gay marriage CARE at all about it. Why?! How does it affect your life or your marriage? I just don't get it.

Because the religious right considers homosexuality "an abomination in the eyes of God", and they consider marriage to be a holy union in the eyes of God. To combine the two, in their view, is a devilish blasphemy. Some would even see it as a sign of apocalyptic doom. (seriously).

Wait....wouldn't combining the two be a neutral?  smile
3164  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / HL2 has no manual on: November 05, 2004, 06:17:03 PM
I think for me it is just an example of my getting less for the same price.  Sure it isn't needed, but it was something I used to get.  Now that I don't get it I am getting less, but I am still paying the same amount.  As a consumer that makes me feel like I am being ripped off (a little anyway)
3165  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / LOTR: TTA (More impressions please!) on: November 05, 2004, 04:20:35 PM
I have only played about 15 minutes but I was not overly impressed.  I think I am in the minority but I thougth the graphics were pretty poor.  Maybe it was because I had just been playing Shadow Hearts: Covenant but I didn't really like the look of TTA.  

And they keep talking about showing the turn order as though this is such a revolution - unseen since FF10....well as I said I was just playing SH:C and it has it so again I wasn't blown away by TTA having it.

All in all I guess I agree the the Gamespy review - an average RPG with a cool movie tie in.
3166  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / New EGM Scores (Careful...some Halo 2 SPOILERS within) on: November 05, 2004, 02:50:30 PM
Well at least I will have a lot of good games to play very soon.
3167  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Star Wars Episode 3 Trailer - November 4th! on: November 04, 2004, 08:21:53 PM
I was shocked by how bad the CGI for Yoda was.  It didn't come close to looking realistic.

And I really, really hate Lucas's obsession with dragging in characters from 4,5,6.  Why do we need Chewbacca?  Uggghhh.
3168  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 04, 2004, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: "Butterknife"
I don't know whether I'm rising to the bait here, or just trying to enlighten those who truly don't know, but here it is as simple as I can make it.

Old Testament -- Law of Moses (the Ten Commandments).  Mostly still followed by Jewish religions today, although some traditions are different.

New Testament -- Law of Christ (for lack of a better term).  Christ taught that several of the old laws should be changed.  For example, the principle "Eye for an eye" of the Old Testament law, was changed to "Turn the other cheek", a New Testament law.  Christianity today comes from the New Testament and the Old (the 10 Commandments in Exodus are still accepted, for example), but where there is conflict, the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament.

So, most of the laws and traditions in Exodus and Leviticus, from which the above (very funny, I might add!) post were superseded later by the new laws established by Christ.

Thread hijackers!

You point out that Christ taught that several of the old laws shoudl be changed - did he specify any of the ones listed above?  If not wouldn't they still be in play?

Basically (not trying to be rude or combative) how do we know which laws are superseeded by the New Testament?  Who decided if Christ wasn't explicit?
3169  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Scrapland review on: November 04, 2004, 02:44:23 PM
Great.  Another game I will need to get.  smile  Sounds like a really good game though.
3170  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Kerry concedes on: November 03, 2004, 09:02:15 PM
Quote from: "Devil"
I think a great number of people really believe Bush's policies will have long term negative effects on our country.

The votes show that a GREATER number of people don't agree. :wink:

I was responding to a post about comments in this thread.  Obviously that doesn't reflect the view point of the majority of people who voted. However I believe it does acurately reflect the the thoughts of many of the people posting - in this thread.
3171  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Kerry concedes on: November 03, 2004, 07:09:30 PM
Quote from: "Eco-Logic"

  I don't want a theocracy, I do want a more conservative country both socially and fiscally, and that appears to be the case.

I am finding myself more and more fiscally conservative and I have to say I think the Bush administration is about as far from that as any Democratic administration would be.

Socially yes, but fiscally....he is not conservative by any definition I know.
3172  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Kerry concedes on: November 03, 2004, 07:00:00 PM
Quote from: "Graham"
Geez people, you'd think that the sky was falling from some of the responses here.  I'm glad that Bush won, and would have been disappointed if he lost, but I wouldn't have been ready to declare that I might as well bend over and get the vaseline out.  You'd think that Russia's nukes had been launched and all of our defenses couldn't stop it and you're living the last days of your life.

I think a great number of people really believe Bush's policies will have long term negative effects on our country.
3173  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Great new Dragon Warrior 8 Trailer on: November 03, 2004, 03:19:16 PM
For the love of long until this incredible looking game gets here?
3174  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / LOTR: The Third Age - for GBA on: November 02, 2004, 09:22:03 PM
This game is different than its big console siblings in that it appears more like Fire Emblem.  You move characters, attack the attack plays out in a little mini scene.

So has anyone seen any reviews or picked it up themselves?  I am not terribly excited about it for some reason but I am desprite for a new game on the GBA.  I have been playing Mario Golf for about a month since there is nothing else out so I would really love it if this game was good.
3175  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: MoH: Pacifice Assault - directors editioni on: November 02, 2004, 02:05:35 AM
Quote from: "raydude"

However, I may be detecting a hint of "why aren't all FPS games the way I like them?" To which I reply, that's because we're all different.

Someone may not like playing a cop, so therefore won't like SWAT 4.  Someone may not like an FPS where you have to hit "W,W,W,W" to get regen healing so therefore won't like UT2K4.

In closing, it's great that you don't like these features. Even better is the fact that games without these features already exist. However, please accept the fact that I (and other gamers) may like these features and thus would like to play a game with them enabled.

Of course I accept hte fac that you and others may love the game .... no matter how misguided you may be... smile

No seriously what I meant more was....I guess I don't want realism in my FPS.  Lets be honest war sucks, killing isn't fun, and getting shot is pretty crappy so more realism in my video games isn't what I want.  Not that other can't
3176  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Hands-On Preview on: November 01, 2004, 05:25:11 PM
Unfortunatley all the quick takes, previews, etc. won't answer the real questions about bugs.  Those things are always controled by the developer so the people playing don't get to have unrestricted access.

It won't be until people actually start playing it that we find out about bugs.  So I just can't bring myself to pre-order - even though GoGamer is selling it for $39.99  ifyou pre-order.
3177  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Hands-On Preview on: November 01, 2004, 05:21:20 PM
Well the game is gold so it is no longer on the road to being gold...but it isn't out yet in we have a thread in both sections! smile
3178  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines on: November 01, 2004, 05:19:05 PM
I wish I could count on it not being buggy, but Troika just has a history.  I have bought their games but they have always been too buggy to really enjoy right away.
3179  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / MoH: Pacifice Assault - directors editioni on: November 01, 2004, 02:26:51 PM
Just watched the trailer for this and I couldn't help but think - I don't want this!  I don't want to hear about how it really was.  I want to play a game.  I want to believe that a solider can get shot 50 times - drink a canteen and be fine.  What next, real recovery time in the hospital?

Don't get me wrong, I think knowing the history is important and good but I think trying to put the history into a video game is a terrible idea.  I don't want to get attached to these computer AI characters who I know are going to die.  

Maybe it is just me but I don't think "realism" and FPS go well together.  The very basic premis of a FPS seems so unrealistic that I don't see how or why developers even try to put any realism in it.  

I can only think they wanted to add all this stuff to convince some people to buy this game rather than Half-Life 2.
3180  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Are you going to play Guild Wars preview 10/29-10/31? on: November 01, 2004, 12:37:30 AM
I really enjoyed it.  I know it didn't have a lot of depth but I think that is what I liked.  I don't want or expect to spend hours and hours leveling up in a on-line game, so something simple and fund was nice.

One thing I don't understand....why can't they copy the huge number of items from Diablo?  How hard is it to figure out that one of the biggest draws of D2 was the hundreds and hundreds of interesting items you could get.  You wanted to keep playing just to see what new object you might get.  90% of the stuff in Guild Wars was boring.  All the staffs looked the same, etc.  How hard is it to have a couple artists make some cool looking stuff?
3181  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Doom 3 Expansion announced: Resurrection of Evil on: October 29, 2004, 04:29:43 PM
While most people seem unexcited about the game lets not turn the thread into a fight.

3182  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines Hands-On Preview on: October 29, 2004, 04:24:47 PM
Something I wondered about after reading your preview.

Can you be good?  Or at least good for a vampire?  I mean no unnessecary killing of humans, only kill evil vamires etc.?

As I recall in the first game you were a good knight who was turned and had a difficult time adjusting to the more....morally flexible stance of being a vampire.

Basically I don't like being evil in games.  Call it a Mary Poppins weakness but I just can't kill innocents, etc.  

So can I be an honorable vampire?
3183  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Outlaw Golf 2 on: October 29, 2004, 04:20:51 PM
For those of you (like me) with limited time and skills don't forget that Hypnotix has a tradition of giving out cheats each Friday on thier forum

I believe this week's will be a cheat to unlock all characters in exhibition mode.  Which means that next time I have friends over to play we will be able to have all the characters available.  Very nice.
3184  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / [p] Is Bush really better at the war on terror on: October 29, 2004, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: "Eco-Logic"
Quote from: "aussie77"

1) The job in Afghanistan was never finished. Whatever you might say, Bush pulled the majority of troops out of Afghanistan prematurely before the country was secure in order to invade Iraq. He did this despite his own CIA saying at the time that Saddam was not an immediate threat to the U.S. I cannot quote exactly the words, but their comments were something to the effect of "If Iraq does hold weapons of mass destruction, they are unlikely to use them unless attacked."

I don't agree.

Quote from: "General Tommy Franks"
Neither attention nor manpower was diverted from Afghanistan to Iraq. When we started Operation Iraqi Freedom, we had about 9,500 troops in Afghanistan, and by the time we finished major combat operations in Iraq last May, we had more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan.

Ok, that is reasonable.

However on the flip side.

1. the financial aid we promised to Afghanistan hasn't been delivered.  Last I saw the US had given less then 10% of the money they promised to help rebuild the country.  

2. Warlords now control large parts of the country.  I don't think this is what was wanted for a completed mission in Afghanistan.  

3. The "elections" were so fraudulent that the international election agency which monitors didn't even bother sending officials to monitor because they felt there was no reasonable expectation  that the election could be free and fair.

Those things don't point to a mission accomplished in Afghanistan.  I really feel we have ignored them.
3185  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / [p] Is Bush really better at the war on terror on: October 29, 2004, 01:44:40 PM
Quote from: "me3000"
Ahh - so you think Kerry is a better leader?   Perhaps a decisive decision maker.   A strong legislator perhaps?

Bush probably isn't going to be seen as the greatest president of our time.  Between Bush 1, Clinton 1 and Bush 2 we've had almost 16 years of so-so presidents.  However Kerry's past hasn't shown anything like the ability to be better than Bush as a president.

The honest answer for me is I have no idea if Kerry would be a better leader.  I don't know how we can say at this point.

An obvious knee-jerk liberal response would be - hell yes look at what he did in Nam!  He was a decorated hero.  Those who served under him think he is a very good leader!

But I don't know.  I do know how Bush has done.  And for me it isn't good ehough.  That doesn't mean Kerry wouldn't suck, I just have no first hand information about how well or poorly Kerry sucks.... :roll:
3186  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Guild Wars? Anyone playing it? on: October 28, 2004, 11:32:10 PM
It actually got started early.  Which was very nice of them.  

I am currently downloading files so I won't be playing for a bit.
3187  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / [p] Is Bush really better at the war on terror on: October 28, 2004, 09:04:53 PM
Quote from: "Eco-Logic"
Farley, I understand the numbers have grown which is a natural occurrence when you're at war.

We've disrupted the terrorists, you can view the homeland security webpage or do a good search and see how.

Lets be fair.  If I suggested going to a anti-gun site for details on how bad guns are you would not take that as an unbias source - rightly.

I can't take the dept. of homeland security as unbias. They have a vested interest in making themselves look good.  Heck they could even be said to have a responsiblity to do so. It makes Americans feel safer to believe they are doing a good job.
3188  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / [p] Is Bush really better at the war on terror on: October 28, 2004, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: "Eco-Logic"

We're continuously going after them though.  How do you figure Bush's war is one dimensional when he promises to go after the terrorists wherever they are?  How can you fault a President for not disrupting the terrorists enough, when as a country we've never fought a war like this.  Do you honestly think that if Clinton were in power right now we would have caught/killed more terrorists?  Do you think the military tactics would change?  

I don't get your logic at all.

Yes but I think it can be called one dimensional because Bush has closed off many avenues to get them.  Take the use of alies.  Bush has worked hard to alienate a bunch of countries thus making it harder to get shared information.  I doubt France would purposefully not give us important information but I bet their enthusiasm to help is a lot less than it was - so they are probably not doing the best job they could.

Alienating allies makes the war less robust and I would say more one dimensonal.

"he promises to go after the terrorists wherever they are"  This seems to need special attention.  He doesn't go after terrorists where they are.  He invade Iraq - which had nothing to do with Al-Quida!  He hasn't invaded/been tough on some other countries with much, much closer ties to Al Quida.  Look at Pakistan, look at Saudi Arabia.  Both get a free pass from the Bush administration for some reason.  They are major sources of terrorist funding, they are places (the Northern part of Pakistan in particular) where terrorists can find safe haven!  How can it be argued that Bush is going after terrorists wherever they are when he ignores these two countries?

It just seems indefensible to me to say that Bush is truly waging a mult-deminsional war when he alienates valuable allies, and ignores countries with known terrorist ties!
3189  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Sales Discussion- GTA, Halo 2, and Others on: October 28, 2004, 08:19:07 PM
I can't imagine how Halo 2 could out sell GTA since the PS2 install base is so much larger.  Even if every person with an Xbox bought Halo 2 I don't think in pure numbers it would match GTA:SA simply because there are so many more PS2s out there.
3190  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [p] Is Bush really better at the war on terror on: October 28, 2004, 04:06:27 PM
Quote from: "Eco-Logic"
Quote from: "farley2k"
I mean that seriously.  

Here is what I see.

We are attacked on 9/11 and Bush responds by attacking Afgahnistan.  Ok, fine but it was actually Al Queda who were in Afgahnistan with the permission of the Taliban who attacked the US.  As far as I can tell Al Queda is still going strong.  We haven't captured their leader, we haven't disrupted their network very much, nor have we stopped (or even slowed) world support of them.  

That is mind boggling to me, with all due respect.
I stopped reading there actually.

So it is your belief that these are incorrect statements.  Ok I can understand that.

I have to admit I am not an expert on terrorism or Al Quida (hell I can't even spell it consistently)  Everything I said is what I have gattered from the news.  

There are many, many reports about how support for Al Quida has grown since we attacked Iraq.   It is pretty much a known fact that we haven't caught Osama, and as for the disruption - again I remember news reports that Al Quida was not seriously dsicrupted - some CIA report I believe abut 6 months ago said that.

I am not making this stuff up.  Now I think the debate comes from how much is a big disruption, etc.  So it is matters of degree not whether the basic fact (say that Al Quida still exists and is committing terrorist acts) are true.  Is that your preception as well?
3191  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / New Nintendo DS game: Nintendogs on: October 28, 2004, 03:56:35 PM
What a pointless "game"   Maybe I am missing the attraction but it just seemed so dumb.  I never understood the whole virtual pet thing though so maybe it is just me.
3192  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Boston Red Sox '04 World Series Champs!!! on: October 28, 2004, 01:39:57 PM
YEAH!!!!  That stupid sport is off the TV for a few months!!!!    Tongue
3193  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Catalyst 4.10 impressions on: October 28, 2004, 12:57:29 AM
I didn't even bat an eye when I switched to my new machine (and brought my video card along with me) I just installed them.  No troubles to report.
3194  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Bards Tale Impressions on: October 28, 2004, 12:54:15 AM
Unfortunatly they really couldn't come up with a worse release time.  I guess they could if they would have released on Nov. 16th but even this is way to close.

I hope to rent it sometime but there are too many A++ titles to waste money on something that will be discounted in a few months.

3195  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / LOTR: The Third Age RPG: Going to be good? on: October 27, 2004, 08:24:09 PM
Keep in mind it is more of a Final Fantasy type RPG (turn based battles, etc.) than it is KoTOR.  Not that it won't be good - I expect it to be very good, but just don't expect KoTOR type fights.
3196  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / [p] Is Bush really better at the war on terror on: October 27, 2004, 04:27:27 PM
I mean that seriously.  

Here is what I see.

We are attacked on 9/11 and Bush responds by attacking Afgahnistan.  Ok, fine but it was actually Al Queda who were in Afgahnistan with the permission of the Taliban who attacked the US.  As far as I can tell Al Queda is still going strong.  We haven't captured their leader, we haven't disrupted their network very much, nor have we stopped (or even slowed) world support of them.  

Going by news reports (which are very infrequent about Afgahnistan) it seems like the Taliban is actually back in power in many places, there are whole regions of the country where the US can't go safely and the government of Afgahnistan isn't in control.

How can we see that as a win?  The country is still a great place to run a terrorist camp/resort/spa.

Next thing in the war - we attack Iraq.  WTF?  They didn't have anything to do with 9/11, they were not friendly to Islamic extermists, and they were watched like a hawk by the world.  We seemed to attack because of the whole WMD thing but that now appears to be a load of BS.  

And like Afgahnistan (but more talked about) there are large parts of the country not under control where American's can't go and which seem to be great places for a terrorist hang out.

It just seems like from an objective viewpoint Bush is doing a terrible job in the war on terrorism.  The only defense most people offer (well two) is 1. Kerry would do worse and 2. we haven't been attacked again so it must be working.  Neither of those is a logical argume.  We have no way of knowing how/what Kerry would do.  We can guess but we don't know.  And just because we haven't been attacked doesn't mean we won't be.  It is like saying I must be healthy because I haven't had a heart attack yet!  No, I could still be doing all the wrong things to stay healthy - it just hasn't caught up to me yet.

What am I missing in this that shows Bush is doing a good job?
3197  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / [P] An Open Letter to Libertarians on: October 27, 2004, 04:10:17 PM
It just confuses me to read the letter again.  It is more ranting than logic.
3198  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / [P] An Open Letter to Libertarians on: October 27, 2004, 03:11:29 PM
Wow.  That was more eye opening than a Tom Chick cartoon about how great Christianity is!!!  

Had I only known that

Already plans are afoot by the Kerry campaign to steal the coming election via a legal coup, e.g. to claim victory on election night no matter what the vote differential is, and initiate lawsuits anywhere and everywhere they feel it works to their advantage, thus making a mockery of our election process, throwing the entire process into chaos — possibly for months — and significantly weakening our ability to conduct foreign policy and protect ourselves domestically. Let me repeat: we are facing the very real possibility of a political coup occurring in America. Al Gore very nearly got away with one in 2000. Do not underestimate what Kerry and his ilk are going to attempt to do to America.

I keep hearing how both sides have lawyers ready to pounce on any legal issue.  Apparently I was being lied to by those freaking anti-Semites, racists, radical environmentalists, plundering trial lawyers, government employee unions, and numerous other self-serving elites!!  Those bastards!!!

I can't help but find it funny that this twit is willing to ignore every ideal I have ever heard from libertarians.  He even admits it by saying

George Bush has been criticized for many things – and in many cases with justification: on campaign finance reform (a suppression of the First Amendment), on vast new domestic spending, on education, and on failing to protect the borders.

What are the core issues for libertarians?  I always thought it was small government, get government out of the people's lives.  Apparently for Mr. Hospers the only issue that matters at all is the war on terror.

Bigger governtment - fine, more government regulation - fine, errosion of our constitutional rights - long as the president attacks countries like Iraq - who had nothing to do with 9/11, who had no WMDs then he is fine.

3199  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Buying an and controller recs wanted on: October 27, 2004, 02:54:25 PM
I love my Pelican Wireless Controller  Never had any trouble with it.  It is under $30 so it iis a lot cheaper than the Logitech one.
3200  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / ABC screwing up TiVO users on: October 27, 2004, 02:42:37 PM
If TiVo is on the ball they will eventually come up with some way to combat this shit by the networks.  I don't know exactly what they can do but I am sure their could be something done.
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