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2841  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Bill Harris, WE GET IT - you hate Sony (Dubious Quality) on: November 29, 2006, 03:33:57 AM

Quote from: Kobra on November 28, 2006, 01:21:42 PM

Indeed, at least some people can ADMIT something they hyped turned out to be shit.  Other people, just try to sweep it aside and hope people will forget they aren't Sylvia Brown.

You are a person of strong opinions and since may sites have blogs for free I look forward to seeing a link to your better blog.  I would try or you could use so you can be on the same site as Bill. 

2842  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Next batch of Wiis? on: November 28, 2006, 06:54:23 PM
I hate you.   icon_wink

2843  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Bill O'Really says "Gamers are morons and doomed to a life of poverty". on: November 27, 2006, 11:48:32 PM
Lets stop this before it gets ugly...uglier. 
2844  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Wii Search... on: November 26, 2006, 06:59:15 PM

Quote from: Misguided on November 26, 2006, 05:23:09 PM

Quote from: farley2k on November 26, 2006, 04:54:42 PM

I would say it was a fluke but all the console releases (except the game cube) have been this way since the PS2.  I think companies saw the big lines for the PS2 and decided that it was a good business model to create artificial scarcity. 

They are supposedly on track to ship 4 million worldwide by the end of December. How is that creating artficial scarcity?

If they ship 4 million it isn't.  Only time will tell if they meet that.

I do know that there were 50+ people lined up outside Best Buy at 4AM this morning.  I don't consider that meeting demand.
2845  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Wii Search... on: November 26, 2006, 04:54:42 PM
I put this on my Christmas list so unless a mother in law can find one I won't be getting one this holiday season - that means no camping out, no hounding employees to find out when the next shipment is in, etc. 

Why is it so hard for companies to make enough to satisfy demand?

I would say it was a fluke but all the console releases (except the game cube) have been this way since the PS2.  I think companies saw the big lines for the PS2 and decided that it was a good business model to create artificial scarcity. 
2846  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: FF3: Levels and Job Levels on: November 24, 2006, 08:44:56 PM
So I read that...and I still don't have a clue what is going on!

My question is - are certain jobs opened up only after I reach certain job levels in other jobs?  Of example does "ninja" only open up after so many monk and thief job levels?  Or does "summoner" only open up after a certain number of white, red, and black mage job levels.

And do certain abilities only open up after certain job levels?  It seems like a jobs profession has all the abilities right at the start but I thought maybe some stuff only opens up after you get enough job levels.

I am not terribly concerned about how jp works on calculations for damage...I just want to play around with the jobs.

2847  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Wii Search... on: November 24, 2006, 08:38:18 PM

Quote from: Zinfan on November 24, 2006, 08:36:06 PM

LOl.  So a google search for say...wii and tracker might have pulled that up?  smile  Thanks.

2848  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Wii Search... on: November 24, 2006, 08:27:30 PM
Is there a tracker site like there was for the 360? 
2849  Non-Gaming / Trading Forum / Re: FS: Home networking hardware on: November 22, 2006, 06:14:43 PM
You have been PMed...
2850  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: November 22, 2006, 03:47:47 PM
Anyone had luck with the gambit - enemy = flying use = aero?  I thought it would be a great way to kill flying monsters but the two characters who have it just seem to sit there staring like idiots when I have it set. 

2851  Non-Gaming / Trading Forum / FS: Home networking hardware on: November 22, 2006, 01:54:53 PM
I have a D-link DI-604 router and a Netgear WG602 WAP for sale.  I bought a combo one to save cords and ports.

$10 for the D-link and $15 for the Netgear....or make me an offer.


2852  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy III (DS) Impressions on: November 22, 2006, 02:03:14 AM
What level should I be before entering the mine?  My two characters are level 6 and they die in the first fight in the mine.  I like difficult classics but this game is already spanking me!
2853  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Is anyone looking for a Wii? on: November 22, 2006, 01:57:06 AM

Quote from: Calvin on November 21, 2006, 10:27:12 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on November 21, 2006, 10:14:10 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on November 21, 2006, 09:25:14 PM

If anyone decides to purchase a Wii from Purge, I speak from personal experience when I say that he is a very trustworthy person to do business with.  The anonymity of internet forums can be a little offputting when real money is on the line, but he's definitely one of the good guys.

-Autistic Angel

+1.  I'll also vouch for him.
+1-Purge is one of the absolute best traders around. Great great guy.

+  Another vote of trust. 

He actually scored me an Xbox 360 when they were impossible to find where I live.

I am considering it myself but I haven't shopped around here so I don't know how hard it will be to get one. 

2854  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: PS3 - totally missing from ads - Wii everywhere on: November 20, 2006, 06:52:35 PM

Quote from: Calvin on November 19, 2006, 08:28:27 PM

The PS3 is featured prominently in every local ad I have seen today. Maybe your sampling is too small Farley.

It was a completely non-scientific sample.  Just my local paper. 

2855  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: November 20, 2006, 02:20:28 PM
Played a few more hours over the weekend.  Did a few hunts.  Overall I am still not happy with the license board and equipment.  I have to go through a lot of spots for stuff I don't want to get license for things I do, which means it is about impossible to only buy what you use.  For example to get Daggers 4, you have to go through Crossbows and Ninja swords, or some poles and hand bombs. Daggers just don't all link together.  Or to get the final Swiftness you have to go through one Battle Lore...well what if my character doesn't use physical attacks?   That is fine but it means no matter how careful you are you will have to waste some LP on stuff you never intend to use.   Another good example is the path to get the Golden Amulet license.  Everyone will want that since it doubles the LP given but you have to go through a lot of stuff you may never want your character to wear to get there. 

I am also finding it hard to keep a character focused on one weapon type.  Daggers are a good example.  There are just not a lot of high powered daggers available to buy yet so I either have to keep my character with a lower powered weapon or get a license for something which is available.

All in all I love the game but I am not completely sold on the layout for the license board or how they release new weapons/armor/accessories. 
2856  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: November 19, 2006, 06:50:11 PM

Quote from: Xmann on November 19, 2006, 05:56:28 PM

I've tried to unequip that thing and i can't.  It's greyed out and i can't swap it out or anything.  I've tried using Vox and the potions from other characters but it won't work.  Gotta figure out how to unequip it i guess.

Not sure how i want to level my group.  I definitely prefer Vaan, Bashe, Fran, and Ashe.   

You have to unequip it.  I am not sure why you cannot.  I equiped it on Fran when I first got it because...well it looked like a pretty cool accessory, but I quickly noticed that it had to go.  Heck even my non-magic folks have learned cure just to help out.  Nobody in my party can wear it.

As for leveling there seems to be no place where you have to use certain characters so you can ignore the ones you don't like.  There seem to be two plans.

1. level up only 3 of them.  This saves money because you only have to equip three people.  They level faster because they are always in the fights.

2. level up everyone.  You can swap in people when fights are tough.  You get to learn more stuff because you can have six people going different ways.

In the end it seems totally up to the individual.  I am going for all six because I like to try different stuff (weapons, spells, etc.) but I don't think it matters in game terms.
2857  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / PS3 - totally missing from ads - Wii everywhere on: November 19, 2006, 04:07:20 PM
I was a bit shocked to see that in today's ads there was nothing about the PS3.  Now before you say "hey, Farley there are none to buy!" I know that but there was games, no accessories,  no mention whatsoever about the PS3 in the Best Buy, Target, or Toys-R-Us ad.  I expected at least to see the games listed on one of the insert pages.  Meanwhile the Wii was on the front page of almost every add (I even think I saw it in the Talbots ad! smile

I think Nintendo pulled off a huge, huge win.  By waiting until Sunday Nintendo let the PS3 shoot its wad and now it is dead.  There are no more consoles, no big games, no hype, no excitement....and Nintendo stepped right in to satisfy the Christmas urge. 

It kind of makes me sad because I love my PS2.  I stood in line on launch day, I think the Final Fantasy series is the best thing in gaming.  I think the library for the PS2 is could keep me busy for years.   And Sony has pissed that all away with the PS3.  They screwed it up in so many ways I need all my fingers and toes to just list the biggest gaffs. 

I really hope SquareEnix is sitting in meetings with Nintendo talking about how to get FF on to the Wii. 
2858  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: November 17, 2006, 09:31:02 PM

Quote from: Calvin on November 17, 2006, 09:10:20 PM

Haste isnt available like 35 hours in? Are you kidding me? Isn't that taking some of the license stuff just too far? In FF10 you got haste in what, 10 hours? What was it like in older FFs?

*modified because I was getting way too excitable about not having haste early on biggrin*

The game is much longer so it might be that in terms of % of game completed it is similar.  This game is also harder which means they don't give you stuff as quickly. 

2859  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Wii Launch Thread on: November 17, 2006, 02:15:46 PM
Well Fox News thinks it is like the moon landing!
2860  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: November 17, 2006, 02:11:13 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 17, 2006, 04:23:37 AM

Dude, you kind of screwed up.  You should *never* buy licenses for spells and equiipment you don't have yet.  It will be very, very far in the game before you can use most of what you bought. 

That is just not true, imo.  There is no way to get the quickenings without buying licenses for things you can't use yet.  They are on the edges and if you want them you are going to have to take some stuff you can't use.   

I can't imagine how late it would be in the game before you got them if you waited until you could buy equipment/spells for some of those spots.
2861  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy III (DS) Impressions on: November 16, 2006, 03:18:41 PM
Does it have a map? 

I was enjoying the FF1&2 collection on the GBA but eventually I got frustrated because I was constantly lost.  This helped I guess because I was getting into lots of random battles so I leveled a lot but eventually it just got too annoying. 

Is it at least somewhat clear where to do in this game?
2862  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: November 14, 2006, 05:10:28 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 13, 2006, 02:28:10 PM

Also, if you want to get a really powerful sword (Demonsbane +59 attack) in that dungeon:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Beat the optional demon wall (the one you ran from at first).  That will open up a secret side passage.  At the bottom of the stairway in that secret passage is a chest that has Demonsbane as a random drop.  However, the chest has only a 70% chance of appearing, and only 50% chance of dropping Demonsbane if it appears, so you  may have to respwan/reload the chest several times.  Took me forty-five minutes to respawn it but it was completely worth it.

That demon wall is hard!  I still can't beat him and I have beaten the "Boss" for the dungeon.  I don't die but he pushes me back to the door before I can hit him enough to kill him.   That and he sends my best fighters to the "void" all the time!  Is there a way to come back from there, or do I have to wait for Superman to throw a bomb into space?

2863  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy III review on: November 14, 2006, 05:00:47 PM

Quote from: Farscry on November 14, 2006, 03:14:26 PM

This is prepaid through trade-in credit at my local independent shop.  icon_biggrin

Me too!  Well most of it.  It is rather expensive for a DS title so I will have to kick in a bit.  Still for my last trade ins (and $15 extra) I got Elite Beat Agents and FF3.  That is fair (even if EBA is kicking by but right now)

2864  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Ultimately, in a couple years, which console will have won this generation? on: November 14, 2006, 02:31:32 PM
"the ultimate winner once everything is said and done?"

What does that mean?  Number of units sold?  Number of A+ titles? Highest profit margin for the company?  Least returns for defective units?  Highest brand loyalty? 

I could go on for a long time listing different things that could define "the ultimate winner" 

I voted for the Wii since it will make the most money per unit for the company, have a low return rate from defects, have high consumer loyalty, and will be rated the most "fun" by polls. 

Really except for units sold and number of games I think the Wii will dominate - but those are two very important numbers to lots of people so I can see why others would pick one of the other consoles
2865  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: November 13, 2006, 02:18:10 PM
- spoilers -

I just got to the Tomb Of Raithwall and it is really annoying.  I never liked sections where you pretty much need to know the trick in order to be prepared for the boss fight.  I don't think it would be possible to beat Belias without something to remove oil.  I had 10 or so hankies when I started the dungeon but used them when I got oiled by other monsters so that by the time I faced him I was out.  Since this hasn't been a common status attack I haven't bothered to have anyone get a license for it (and I haven't bought it yet anyway) so I died.  I don't like that.  Not because I don't like dying but because you need to know the gimick before entering the dungeon or you are screwed.  Now I have to go to buy a bunch of hankies and maybe the spell to remove oil and fight my way through the dungeon again.  That is annoying.  I know it is a common thing to have in these games but I still don't like it. 

I also wasn't too big of a fan of the fact that there is no save point before him.  I know that with the save points fully healing that they have to be spaced farther apart to prevent abuse but it is silly these days to have to fight that long on then face a boss without a save.   My guess is they knew that most people, like me, would have to go buy some hankies, or spells to fact him so they didn't want to trap us at the bottom of the dungeon.    That just says to me that they knew it was a cheap tactic. 

Oh well I will get over it and go back to playing soon. 
2866  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: November 09, 2006, 02:03:40 PM
I am really disappointed with my License board choices so far.  I just kind of blundered around at first and took a lot of stuff I didn't need.  I think now I am faced with restarting (only 10-15 hours in really) or doing some grinding to get more LP to guide my characters better. 

Is everyone else happy with the license choices? or did you look at a guide? or what? 

2867  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: November 08, 2006, 08:16:26 PM

Quote from: Nth Power on November 08, 2006, 07:23:03 PM

It makes me wonder why they put something like this in?  Unless you have a strat guide and read it beforehand, there is absolutely no way you're not going to open at least one of those chests along the way...unless your some odd non-opening chest weirdo.

As far as I remember there is something like this in most (if not all) FF games.  I remember a spot in #9 where you could only fight this certain boss if you did X action again and again. 

Stuff like this is for the hardcore player who plays again and again. 
2868  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Neverwinter Nights 2 Impressions on: November 08, 2006, 04:58:12 PM

Quote from: Destructor on November 08, 2006, 03:21:51 PM

The AI works, but it has issues. In my mind, it seems to be based on the fact that you can rest just about anywhere in a matter of seconds. Spellcasters tend to be the main problem here, as they'll cast away (and not on the best of targets either). Tanks though are pretty good about finding a target and beating it down, occasionally using special powers (Knockdown, Power Attack, etc) when they find it useful.

I have to disagree.  When my tank runs past several enemies - getting an AoE from each - to attack someone farther away that isn't working.  That is busted.

When the AI for casters will cast dispel magic on enemies which don't even have any buffs on, that is busted.

When my rogue will just leave a fight to go disarm a trap, that is busted.

The AI doesn't work unless you define work as just doing anything.
2869  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: November 01, 2006, 01:36:52 PM

Quote from: kathode on November 01, 2006, 12:35:24 AM

Seemingly stupid question that is causing me a great deal of agitation at the moment -
Is anyone playing this with a non-standard PS2 controller? 
I have two cheapos I got when my last one died.  One is a MadCatz knockoff but one is a plain old gray Sony controller.  FF12 seems to demand an authentic DualShock 2 or it refuses to load up.  Going to see if I can't borrow Calvin's controller for a second and test this out, but man, WTF?

Update: Yup, it doesn't like anything but the real deal.  What a load.

I am using the Pelican "Predator" and it works fine so far. 

One thing is that I can't move through certain menus with the analog stick which is a bit annoying.  I don't know if that is caused by the controller.
2870  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: November 01, 2006, 01:34:17 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on November 01, 2006, 12:17:23 AM

That type of thing has always been one of my big problems with JRPGs.  Of the 100's of battles you are typically forced to fight, very few of them seem to require actual strategy and effort to win.  It seems like you can usually just go through the motions and use the same tactic over and over.

Yeah but at least you could try different things for fun.  You could cast blizzard instead of fire, etc. 

With 2 characters on gambits and one guest it is pretty dull.
2871  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [PS3] Oh boy.....this could get real ugly.... on: October 31, 2006, 11:34:44 PM

Quote from: coopasonic on October 31, 2006, 09:54:23 PM

I'm not talking morality, I'm talking about what "sucks for me" as the guy behind you in line.

In that case, yes it totally sucks.  It also sucks that there are going to be so few of them. 
2872  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [PS3] Oh boy.....this could get real ugly.... on: October 31, 2006, 09:44:50 PM

Quote from: coopasonic on October 31, 2006, 08:43:35 PM

The idea is that if not for eBay, the profiteers wouldn't be in line at all. On the flip side, the profiteers are just proxies for the people who will buy the systems from them. Can I flip it again? Those people who would spend $2,000 for a game console find their time too valuable to line up for a console, so they probably wouldn't be in line if they didn't have the profiteers to do it for them. I think I'm out of sides.

What if I am willing to pay a college kid to wait in line for me?  When the PS2 was going on sale my wife and I stood in line, and she was standing in for a friend....was that immoral?   He didn't pay her to stand in line so was it ok?  Was she robbing someone else of their PS2?  He didn't pay extra for the system...was that ok then?

2873  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [PS3] Oh boy.....this could get real ugly.... on: October 31, 2006, 07:59:50 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on October 31, 2006, 06:48:24 PM

I guess the big difference is that in your example there aren't any people buying the Aston Martins for $50,000. Every person who buys one to sell at 110K is taking away the ability to purchase one at $50,000.

 if I am 6th in line and the store only gets 5 units in stock every person in front of me who buys the PS3 strictly to sell for profit has prevented me from buying it for retail price.  Yes I guess I could get it at retail price if I wait long enough.  But that doesn't change the fact that the speculators are driving up the price for those who actually want to buy the console simply to play games on it.   Or worse not allowing those people to buy it at all for a time period.

Instead of there being 800,000 PS3s sold for $600, there may only be 400,000.  The rest being sold for $1000+.  My point is that if you want to make a profit on a PS3 that is your business.  But don't pretend your actions are not affecting other people.


Everyone in the line before you is "preventing" you from buying it at retail price.  It makes no difference if they keep it, sell it, or throw it in the dumpster.  You still can't have it.  I can't see how what they do with it matters.

Why would they only sell 400,000 units for $600?  Retailers won't sell the other 400,000?  I think what you mean is there will be 800,000 sold at $600, and 400,000 resold for $1000.  Again what a consumer does with the console after they buy it is not relevant. 

One true thing you said - "But that doesn't change the fact that the speculators are driving up the price for those who actually want to buy the console simply to play games on it. "  Yup.  So are those people selling Valkyrie Profile for $150, or Suikoden 2, etc.   

Why is the PS3 different than those things?  Or is that wrong too? 

I want a Razr phone but on ebay they are really too that wrong?  Shouldn't all ebay sellers only charge what the phone costs with a new plan?  Aren't they scalping?
2874  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [PS3] Oh boy.....this could get real ugly.... on: October 31, 2006, 06:22:58 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on October 31, 2006, 04:23:59 PM

Help me understand why this is different than scalping tickets in your mind, they seem pretty similar to me.

They do indeed.   And I have never understood why scalping was illegal.  I suppose you could argue that since a concert/game/etc. is a one time event that there should be special rules but I never understood why when I legally buy something I can legally sell it.

2875  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Final Fantasy XII Impressions on: October 31, 2006, 05:56:58 PM
I am enjoying it but combat is sometimes just watching them "gambit."

small spoilers

I was getting beaten repeatedly by the fire horse boss until I just set everyone to gambits and let the computer do the fighting.  It could keep track better than I could of who needed healing, when they needed it, etc.  I guess that is great AI but on the other hand it made for a pretty boring boss battle. 

2876  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Lik-Sang is dead thanks to Sony on: October 24, 2006, 05:16:16 PM
I am pretty disappointed.  They were a reputable, honest dealer. 

I am starting to really dislike Sony.
2877  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Childish Tattletale Bull on: October 19, 2006, 05:10:29 PM

Quote from: Farscry on October 19, 2006, 05:04:15 PM

Good lord, I can't believe the lengths to which people will go to ensure superficial standards of "neighborhood beautification".  Maybe it's because I grew up poor and people cared more about working to have food on the table and a functioning heater in the house, and it wasn't considered a problem to not have time to keep everything perfectly upkept.

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon
my dog died and my wife was in the hospital for the week that my lawn was taller than 3" (it never got high enough to warrant a phone call.  4" at worst)

Well, apparently you are under the mistaken impression that family crises are somehow more important than the height of your lawn, you pathetic excuse of a homeowner, you.  [/sarcasm]

Which laws are we allowed to break then? 

Aren't there more important things to worry about in life?  I honestly don't understand the perspective that this stuff really matters.  There's a difference between reasonable expectations of peace and quiet (having ordinances to keep people from blaring loud music while driving down the street in the middle of the night) and "Stepford Wives" degrees of superficial perfection.

Aren't there more importan things to worry about than a reasonable expectation of peace and quiet? 

We all seem to have a line drawn somewhere between what is Stpford Wives and what is alright.  Kobra just has  a different line - and he has found a community to live in which agrees. 

KD seems to disagree with where the line is drawn in his town and I assume he will be working to overturn those ordnances.   
2878  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Childish Tattletale Bull on: October 19, 2006, 05:05:56 PM
I'm dead serious when I say this:  This is pure cowardice.

Have some balls and go talk to those people instead of hiding behind the city.  You don't really know those people's situations, and to step all over them without that knowledge is craven at best.[/wuote]

Speaking as someone who has almost gotten his face beaten in I will say that I don't confront neighbors about these kind of things anymore - I turn them in.  How many drunk assholes am I supposed to fight so I am not considered a coward? 

I have gone over to a neighbor and talked to them about their house looking run down - and been resoundingly told to fuck off and die.  I turn them in.

We have laws and I use them.  It isn't cowardice anymore than it is cowardice to expect police to stop speeders.  I expect people to obey the laws of the area they live in.  That is not being a coward as far as I can tell.
2879  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Childish Tattletale Bull on: October 19, 2006, 04:58:34 PM

Quote from: Bulletpig on October 19, 2006, 04:51:46 AM

So Kobra, how many squares of toilet paper does the city allow you to use for each dump?

And what about how long your hair is?  Nothing like a long haired hippy to drive that house value down.

My biggest problem though is where does it stop?

Really though I am glad that your happy where you are at and thankful that we live in a country that we get to choose where we want to live.  Speaking of which let me know what city your in so I can add it to my list of places I refuse to live.  icon_wink


It stops when people don't vote for the laws or vote out the lawmakers who created the laws.  This isn't a police state.  People can organize and vote for less restrictive ordances.
2880  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Bully. Who's getting and who's got impressions. on: October 19, 2006, 04:48:46 PM

Quote from: corruptrelic on October 18, 2006, 02:44:41 PM

Parents really need to get involved with their kids these days, and stop blaming the video game makers for problems because ultimately, it's up to them what their kids play in their own home.

Off topic really...

While that sounds great it doesn't mean squat when parents don't go that.  I still have to put up with the little jerks in the mall, driving like crap on the road, etc. 

In the real world kids don't just stay at home all day.  They are out in the world interacting with it and me, and as such I suffer from other people's bad parenting.  So I have a vested interest in if this game should be played by kids because I will have to deal with the consequences. 
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