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4841  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: New Neverwinter Nights? on: August 09, 2010, 08:08:15 PM

Quote from: Sarkus on August 09, 2010, 08:00:46 PM

Quote from: TiLT on August 09, 2010, 07:27:55 PM

Quote from: Sarkus on August 09, 2010, 07:23:56 PM

I'd be shocked if it wasn't an MMO.  D&D Online is starting to make some money with it's FTP model and a lot of people would jump at the chance of seeing an MMO version of the Forgotten Realms.  Not to mention that Neverwinter was the location of the original D&D MMO.

I would be shocked if it is an MMO. The investment is just too big, and the D&D fan base just isn't large enough to support that on its own. Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast also got cold feet from D&D Online. I don't think they want to repeat that any time soon. Too risky.

And the investment in single player isn't a big risk?  And this isn't about Hasbro/WotC, it's about Atari since they are the ones who control the video game IP.  It didn't cost them anything for D&D Online because that was financed by Turbine.  All Atari did was sit back and see what kind of profits they got from the licensing agreement.  That wasn't much up front, but D&D Online has really taken off in terms of popularity and profitability since they went FTP (which is why Turbine is taking LOTR Online in that direction now).  I can see Atari thinking that an even bigger piece of the pie would be appealing, especially since D&D Online doesn't use what is really D&D's most valuable property, the Forgotten Realms setting.

I think Hasbro would beg to differ about Atari owning anything that has to do with D&D. As I mentioned above, there's lawsuits all over the place, and Hasbro certainly doesn't want Atari to have the license, at least the last time I checked.

And yes, single player is a big risk. However, a MMO is a much, much, much bigger risk. You can develop a single player game with a reasonably sized team and get it from design to market in 2-3 years, then forget about it. A MMO takes longer to develop, requires a considerably larger team, and demands servers, a maintenance and patching team, GMs, community managers, developers for new content, artists, musicians, etc. The costs don't stop when development is over, and they can't pull the plug without hurting their own reputation, even if the game does badly. It's an incredibly large cost, and only rarely does it succeed. Hasbro's last attempt failed (in their eyes) with D&D Online, which is why they won't pursue that again. In fact, DDO is most likely the sole reason why we haven't seen any other real D&D games in years.

So forget about the MMO. There's D&D Online, another reason why there's going to be no other D&D MMORPG for a while (after all, why would Hasbro invest all that money only to compete with themselves?).
4842  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Dragon Age II: No Isometric view, lead platform becomes console on: August 09, 2010, 07:32:03 PM

Quote from: cheeba on August 09, 2010, 07:22:48 PM

Except that's not true. My character started as a rogue. From there I could have made him into several different types of rogue or I could do what I did and dual into warrior. That gave me a rogue when I needed rogue skills but an extremely competent fighter in battle. I could have dualed into mage and my character would have developed in an altogether different way. There were lots of ways to develop the character.

You aren't helping your case here. Making choice of class the only way to develop a character is front-loaded. Just so you understand what I mean, I'm not necessarily saying that you make all the choices at the beginning of the game, but when you choose a class, there are few if any significant choices left to make unless you choose another class. That's not good game design in my eyes, and it leaves you having to make all the important decisions before you even begin playing the game.

Quote
The modern way is to drop complex, deep systems for simple alternatives because consoles require simplicity and dumbing down.

On the other hand, it seems I'm doing myself a disservice by arguing with you. You're doing a fine job in losing the argument all on your own, no other participants needed.
4843  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: New Neverwinter Nights? on: August 09, 2010, 07:27:55 PM

Quote from: Sarkus on August 09, 2010, 07:23:56 PM

I'd be shocked if it wasn't an MMO.  D&D Online is starting to make some money with it's FTP model and a lot of people would jump at the chance of seeing an MMO version of the Forgotten Realms.  Not to mention that Neverwinter was the location of the original D&D MMO.

I would be shocked if it is an MMO. The investment is just too big, and the D&D fan base just isn't large enough to support that on its own. Hasbro/Wizards of the Coast also got cold feet from D&D Online. I don't think they want to repeat that any time soon. Too risky.
4844  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Dragon Age II: No Isometric view, lead platform becomes console on: August 09, 2010, 04:36:30 PM

Quote from: cheeba on August 09, 2010, 04:30:25 PM

If you get that from reading my post then you're reading something terribly wrong. It's not about the numbers, it's about the variety. More choice = better. Dragon Age was like a hybrid between Mass Effect and Baldur's Gate. As is usual with hybrids, I felt it didn't live up to either system.

As I said, AD&D is front-loaded. You have plenty of class choices at the beginning, but after that your choices in how your character develops are very restricted. This is part of the 80s and 90s RPG design philosophy of limiting player choice. The modern way to do things is to encourage player freedom. One way to do that is to reduce the number of classes and instead allow for greater freedom within each class. D&D 4th Edition did this, for example (though there's now a rather large amount of customizable classes there as well). Dragon Age did this as well. Two mages can be incredibly different, but the same can't be said about two mages in Baldur's Gate (unless one is gimped and the other isn't, I guess).

Many people fall into the trap of assuming that the old-school RPG design philosophy encouraged choice, when in fact it did the exact opposite (instead creating an illusion of choice).
4845  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Dragon Age 2 on: August 09, 2010, 02:50:03 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on August 09, 2010, 02:11:13 PM

I think the only thing Fallout 3 was missing from the original was the turn based combat; other than that you still had the same special system, VATS and a much bigger world.

Note: I'm a big Fallout fan, including the third game. I've completed it three times.

The SPECIAL system used in Fallout 3 is only superficially similar to the one used in the two other games. The stats have the same names but work in dramatically different ways. I could write a large article about the differences, but it can be summarized like this: The system used in the first two games was designed so that two different characters would be truly different. The system in Fallout 3 balances things so that even if you have a large difference in stats between two characters, they'll still behave similarly (to a certain degree). Toss a large amount of levels at a Fallout 2 character and you'll end up with someone who's incredibly good at a small handful of things, and dreadful in others (unless you deliberately choose to be a jack-of-all-trades). Do the same with a Fallout 3 character and you end up having to toss skill points at skills you wouldn't even dream of using, simply because the ones you use are maxed out. The result is cookie-cutter characters towards the end-game.

Edit: Damn! I've actually written a fairly lengthy article about this already that I never posted since I never really finished it. It's several pages of introduction, describing some of the changes between Fallout 2 and 3 (going into a lot of numerical detail), but I stopped writing just as I was getting to the interesting part (the "where did Fallout 3's design philosophy break apart" section) and now I can't really remember what I was supposed to write. I'll have to think about this a little more and see if I can't remember what bothered me about the system.
4846  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Dragon Age II: No Isometric view, lead platform becomes console on: August 09, 2010, 11:50:25 AM

Quote from: cheeba on August 09, 2010, 11:27:56 AM

It would take a moron of epic proportions to argue that the class system in Dragon Age comes close to the complexity and depth of Baldur's Gate 2.

I'm glad to see you're as open to fair discussion as always.
4847  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: New Neverwinter Nights? on: August 09, 2010, 04:42:46 AM
When D&D 4th Edition was released, Hasbro (I think it was them. It gets confusing) kept talking about how they had a 4th Edition D&D computer game right around the corner. That's two years ago, so something had better start getting ready for the public. On the other hand, nobody seems to agree these days who actually controls the license, and the companies are suing each other back and forth.
4848  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Dragon Age II: No Isometric view, lead platform becomes console on: August 09, 2010, 04:39:44 AM

Quote from: cheeba on August 09, 2010, 03:19:24 AM

Your party had to pretty much be a rogue, a warrior, and 2 mages. I suppose you could swap out the rogue for another dps mage, but that's not what I'd call variety.

Wow, I never knew. I must have run across a glitch, because I made it through with a rogue, a wizard, and two warriors.

Baldur's Gate's "complexity" came from using the AD&D rules which were and continue to be clunky and unwieldy and filled with weird license restrictions. This is why Bioware created their own rules and their own setting in the first place. AD&Ds design is very front-loaded in character advancement, so I feel that Dragon Age has a much more satisfying approach to stats and how my characters develop over time. Don't get fooled by numbers. More numbers doesn't necessarily mean more strategy.
4849  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Star Wars Live Action TV Series begins casting/ Sitcom coming too? on: August 08, 2010, 09:29:12 PM
Lucas has always been a perfectionist (which is ironic since he doesn't create perfection) when it comes to his vision, so this doesn't really surprise me. It does disappoint me though. That Lucas would be willing to ditch an entire series instead of reducing its quality (in his eyes) just confirms everything I've heard about him.
4850  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Dragon Age II: No Isometric view, lead platform becomes console on: August 08, 2010, 09:25:56 PM

Quote from: KePoW on August 08, 2010, 09:09:46 PM

Quote from: TiLT on August 08, 2010, 08:58:56 PM

Quote from: cheeba on August 08, 2010, 08:45:38 PM

There will never be anything like BG2 from them again.

If you don't count the first Dragon Age, of course. slywink

Was just about to say the same thing.  DA1 is very close to Baldurs Gate, and I really loved it.

DA2 is starting to sound a little iffy... hopefully it's much ado about nothing.  But if they end up making things a lot different than DA1, it will be a huge disappointment.

Yeah, I love fresh ideas and all, but Dragon Age doesn't really need them. If new stuff is going to be tried out, at least do it with something that could do with changing. The overhead view is the one thing that made Dragon Age really stand out for me. Letting me move the camera freely around in 3rd person view isn't the same.
4851  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Kinect: Are you In or Out? on: August 08, 2010, 09:23:06 PM
No. Frigging. Way.
4852  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Dragon Age II: No Isometric view, lead platform becomes console on: August 08, 2010, 08:58:56 PM

Quote from: cheeba on August 08, 2010, 08:45:38 PM

There will never be anything like BG2 from them again.

If you don't count the first Dragon Age, of course. slywink
4853  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Dragon Age II: No Isometric view, lead platform becomes console on: August 08, 2010, 09:17:03 AM
Can we stop using the term "isometric view" please? It has nothing to do with what Dragon Age has been doing anyway. "Isometric" has a very specific meaning within 3D, and Dragon Age was never even close to satisfying its requirements. "Overhead view" is a much better way of describing it.

Anyway, I don't really see why they're going to limit the overhead view when it worked so well in the first game. They should be careful trying to make this game too much like Mass Effect.
4854  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: RAGE, the video game. on: August 07, 2010, 09:57:40 PM
GameTrailers gave Rage their Game of the Show award at E3, so there's got to be something good to this title. smile
4855  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: which is the best gothic? 2 or 3 ? (rpg sale) on: August 04, 2010, 07:04:43 PM
Gothic 2 (gold edition) is the one people remember fondly. Gothic 3 is a more controversial game, though I've played it more than I ever played Gothic 2.

It's starting to show its age though. If you like the style, you should consider getting Risen for the PC at some point.
4856  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Diablo III on: August 03, 2010, 10:52:47 PM

Quote from: YellowKing on August 03, 2010, 09:46:09 PM

Blizzard's innovation lies in making simple ideas more fun for more people.

You know, some people get paid obscene amounts of money to come up with slogans like that.  icon_wink
4857  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Xbox's lack of Blu-ray a 'problem' for developers on: August 03, 2010, 10:43:00 PM

Quote from: Chaz on August 03, 2010, 10:39:29 PM

My PC uses DVDs, and I can't remember the last time I've had to swap a disc more than once.   icon_twisted

Of course, PCs have had forced installs for ages, and even games that come on one DVD often require HD space in excess of 10 GB. It says a lot about the amount of compression required.
4858  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Xbox's lack of Blu-ray a 'problem' for developers on: August 03, 2010, 10:38:51 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on August 03, 2010, 10:29:15 PM

Maybe I'm crazy, but the load times on ME2 were shorter than those on the first game.  And in 50 hrs I think I swapped disks twice.  Not really seeing what the issue is...

I'd guess the load times were shorter because there was more than one disc. More storage means less reason to compress data, which means faster loading. This is also an advantage Blu-Ray has. The 360 (at this point in the current generation) must use compressed data if it is to use only one disc, while the PS3 can work with raw data. Fast data transfer speeds from a DVD compared to a Blu-Ray doesn't help much if heavily compressed data must be extracted on the former before it can be used. This problem is only going to get more pronounced as data demands increase.
4859  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Xbox's lack of Blu-ray a 'problem' for developers on: August 03, 2010, 10:13:49 PM

Quote from: Turtle on August 03, 2010, 09:43:48 PM

the upcoming next gen consoles they'll be using bluray for the most part, but only because it's a tech that's now matured and available since there's no real competitor. However, it will be using a much more mature tech (higher drive speeds), and likely having something some additional tech to speed up the read times (extra lasers?). Then, memory will likely get a bump up to 1GB although I'm hoping for 2GB. That's going to be the biggest change for consoles that will allow more complex games to be made for them, hopefully opening up and bringing back some genres.

RAM has long been the consoles' biggest weakness. With the competitive pricing for consoles, even adding another 512 MB means they risk losing too much money on each console sold. However, I think we're finally starting to see the light at the end of that tunnel: SSD disks. I can easily imagine the next generation of consoles dropping harddrives altogether and replacing them with SSD disks, also taking advantage of their speed to do things that would normally have been assigned to RAM. There would still be a reasonable amount of RAM in the console, but probably not more than 1 GB or so, mostly used as a cache for the most demanding parts of games, such as textures. Yes, SSD disks are currently somewhat expensive, but by the time the next generation begins, their pricing will completely dominate the price of RAM, and regular HDs won't be an attractive option in the first place.

We'll probably still use Blu-Rays or similar tech in the next generation, but digital distribution will be a much more integrated part of the systems and will eventually phase out physical media towards the end of that generation. Installs will be required for pretty much all games (on all consoles) because the demands on data transfer will be much higher than today, and the benefits from using SSD storage for your game data are so immense.

Quote from: Teggy
In the future, all games will come on 1TB read-only disk drives that plug into the console. The return of the cartridge!

Not likely. Distributing software on CDs, DVDs or Blu-Rays is much cheaper than using a cartridge of any kind, and publishers will look to cut any corner they can. Michael Pachter actually received a question about the potential return of cartridges in his latest Pach-Attack on GameTrailers, and he said the same thing: Cartridges are not coming back, simply because they aren't economically viable.
4860  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: StarCraft 2: Wings of Liberty: It's Out!!!! on: August 03, 2010, 09:02:59 PM

Quote from: jersoc on August 03, 2010, 08:47:59 PM

nope, 29.

So you played through the campaign twice?
4861  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: StarCraft 2: Wings of Liberty: It's Out!!!! on: August 03, 2010, 08:46:40 PM

Quote from: jersoc on August 03, 2010, 08:41:22 PM

campaign officially beaten, again. all 29 are down

You mean 25 or 26, I believe. I only had 25 missions in the campaign, and I did everything I could find. Supposedly there's one secret mission, and the rest are the branching missions that you are forced to skip because you made a different choice.
4862  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Xbox's lack of Blu-ray a 'problem' for developers on: August 03, 2010, 07:46:12 PM
Bah! Exclusive PS3-games usually don't require installs (such as the Uncharted titles), while 360-games require me to install them if I want to hear anything but the sound of a jet engine in my living room. It's all about personal preference.

However, one thing ISN'T about personal preference here: DVDs have been too small for modern games for quite a while now. Developers have had to cut corners to get around that limitation. The Blu-ray allows them to throw in anything they like without having to worry about exceeding the storage limit. A game coded with Blu-ray in mind will also stream properly from disc, which means you won't have to install it. Forced installations are a by-product of the less than stellar support the PS3 received from developers early in this generation. With the PS3 now taking the lead away from the 360 (disregarding the Wii) as the favored console for developers, the DVD is going to become a bigger and bigger problem for Microsoft, while the installs are going to become less of a problem for Sony.
4863  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Xbox's lack of Blu-ray a 'problem' for developers on: August 03, 2010, 06:17:19 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on August 03, 2010, 03:13:19 AM

considering the size of Dragon's Age on the PC and the fact they were able to fit that all into one disc on the 360 I'd have to agree with Max.

Did you ever stop to think why the 360-version has the worst graphics (especially when it comes to texture resolution) of all the three systems the game was released for?
4864  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: StarCraft 2: Wings of Liberty: It's Out!!!! on: August 02, 2010, 08:13:43 PM

Quote from: Caine on August 02, 2010, 06:49:46 PM

actually, i am expecting a thrice-bred ? version of kerrigan to emerge after some kinky zeratul/kerrigan phase warpy thing and you end up with a Dark over-Queen of the Templar Blades who controls infested protoss against a combined dominion-zerg force led by a twice-resurrected Arcturus Mengsk who has been melded at the waist to his son and somehow shares the personality with Liquid Snake. 

I'm 22 missions in, and that sounds about right.
4865  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty **Screenshots* (no -spoilers- please) on: August 02, 2010, 08:12:22 PM
Somehow I think a lot of you seemed to miss the "screenshots" and "no spoilers" parts of this thread's title.
4866  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: New i5 and i7's on the way on: August 01, 2010, 02:00:11 PM

Quote from: Destructor on July 29, 2010, 11:08:55 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on July 29, 2010, 07:11:37 PM

Does any game today even make full use of quad cores, much less Sextuple Cores? Or is it just so you can run 6 web browser instances without slowing down? Vroom, vroom, vroom?  SCIENCE!

Not in the slightest. If you're into rendering 3D images, maybe. But for games? Not at all.

What are you basing that on? Based on my experiences with game programming, it's not really a problem setting the engine up so that it'll use almost any amount of cores, and if you don't have them, it's all run on the ones you have instead.
4867  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty **Screenshots* (no -spoilers- please) on: July 31, 2010, 07:43:55 AM
Daehawk, I'm getting tons of "Address has been blocked" messages from NOD32 and your pictures.
4868  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 30, 2010, 03:57:29 PM

Quote from: Eightball on July 30, 2010, 03:44:13 PM

Quote from: TiLT on July 30, 2010, 08:15:26 AM

Yeah, the Meat Cleaver just doesn't work with my character, but the longsword is a decent suggestion. I'm considering going Blessed instead of stuff like Quality though, since my Faith is pretty high and the Magic damage is great for almost any enemy.

If you have high faith, then Blessed weapons make sense.  You can snag a blessed mace in 5-1.  However, a really good weapon to look at acquiring is Istarelle; a blessed spear with poison/plague resistance, and excellent stat adds for a faith melee build.  Very, very useful.

Too bad I'd need pure white tendency in world 5 to get it. I don't think that's going to happen.

The Large Sword of Moonlight looks like a decent alternative and is available through normal means in 5-2 with a bit of effort. I might try to go for that one.
4869  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 30, 2010, 08:15:26 AM
Yeah, the Meat Cleaver just doesn't work with my character, but the longsword is a decent suggestion. I'm considering going Blessed instead of stuff like Quality though, since my Faith is pretty high and the Magic damage is great for almost any enemy.
4870  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 29, 2010, 06:30:10 PM
So bows are much better than crossbows? One thing I like about my heavy crossbow is that I can wield it with a shield, though that's of limited use anyway since I have to stay still for a few seconds after a one-handed shot to reload. I just found a decent looking bow in 4-1, so I might consider swapping for that one if that is a good idea.

I've now killed the Dragon God (2-3) and Adjudicator (4-1). Things are progressing reasonably well. I tried heading into 1-3 as well, but that got a bit tough. Am I supposed to wait with that level until later in the game? I heard that you run into 3 Red-Eye Knights at once in that level, which sounds frightening.

Any suggestions for a good one-handed weapon that should be available to me at this point? I'm using the Crescent Falchion +1 from 4-1 right now, but since I'm not focusing on Magic, its damage output is starting to lag behind.
4871  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Amazon Kindle: Kindle 3! on: July 29, 2010, 12:12:08 PM
I want one of these, even though I've got a Kindle 2. smile
4872  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 29, 2010, 11:09:36 AM

Quote from: Jag on July 28, 2010, 01:30:22 PM

Quote from: TiLT on July 27, 2010, 09:28:28 PM

So, I've been playing this game a bit lately. My class is Temple Knight, and I'm playing him more or less by the book. That means wearing full armor and shield, and using melee weapons almost exclusively. No magic, and at soul level 37 I still only have my basic Heal miracle.

That is really impressive. Glad you are enjoying it.

I'm curious, is my play style really so rare as to be that impressive? I mean, I get the impression that the game encourages me to play the way I do, and it works really well.
4873  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [movie]At the Mountains of Madness on: July 29, 2010, 07:28:43 AM
Oh. My. God.  icon_eek

I've been waiting for this movie for about 10 years now, almost losing hope that it would ever be made. I really hope this rumor is true.
4874  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 28, 2010, 06:18:30 AM

Quote from: semiconscious on July 27, 2010, 10:29:36 PM

i was happy to see that atlus just announced they've extended the online support thru 3/11 (& turned on white world tendency till the end of the month to celebrate) - umbasa! smile ...

My worlds aren't pure white. Is this something that is specific to the American version? I can't find any info about this anywhere.
4875  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: July 27, 2010, 09:39:47 PM

Quote from: TK-421 on July 27, 2010, 07:50:50 PM


On the road to DBT's house:




LOL.
4876  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 27, 2010, 09:28:28 PM
So, I've been playing this game a bit lately. My class is Temple Knight, and I'm playing him more or less by the book. That means wearing full armor and shield, and using melee weapons almost exclusively. No magic, and at soul level 37 I still only have my basic Heal miracle.

So far I've defeated Phalanx, Tower Knight, Armor Spider, False Idol, and Flamelurker. In that order. I did all of them on the first try except Armor Spider and False Idol which caused my to die once each. Flamelurker was an extremely tense fight, but by keeping my head cool I managed to prevail. With the way I play my class, rolling around is out of the question, so I had to face him with my shield raised at all times, allowing him to attack me with all his might (and what might it was!). I was really dreading that fight, so to beat it on my first try was quite amazing. I could feel my heart beating fast as hell when I won.

The risk of losing everything has been a bit exaggerated in my opinion. I've only lost souls permanently once, and it wasn't a large amount. I always seem to be able to make it back to where I died so I can reclaim my lost souls.

I'm really starting to feel more powerful all the time, and it's extremely satisfying. Enemies that were really challenging at first (Blue-Eye Knight, I'm looking at you) are now mere pushovers, and enemies that were impossible (Red-Eye Knight. Hmm, I'm seeing a pattern here) now only require a little extra time and concentration.

I've decided not to raise my Magic high enough to cast spells, and instead focus exclusively on melee, a crossbow (for backup) and the occasional miracle. So far that has worked out really well for me. The only enemy that really keeps me on my toes so far is the Mind Flayer. If they can get in even one attack on me, that's usually enough for them to get into position to finish me off before I can mount a defense. Still, if I have room to maneuver all I need is enough space to dodge the first attack, at which point they'll run towards me (for reasons I can't fathom), opening themselves up to a chain of attacks that kills them before they can do anything else.

Loving the game so far. smile
4877  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Mass effect 2 Launch and impressions (the REAL One) on: July 27, 2010, 03:03:32 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on July 27, 2010, 02:16:01 PM

Quote from: Teggy on July 27, 2010, 01:08:06 PM

If anyone cares, the new Mass Effect book is out. I totally forgot I pre-ordered and it automatically downloaded to my Kindle this morning.

How many are there now? I read the first one. It was meh, but readable.  Haven't picked up the second. Is this the third?

Yup, this is the third. I've read the first two. The first was better than the second, mostly because of its relevance to the plot in Mass Effect 1. I'll probably end up reading the new one as well once I'm done with the Bourne trilogy. smile
4878  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: roleplaying game (neverwinter nights 2, morrowind, witcher, etc?) on: July 26, 2010, 05:57:23 PM
I would recommend the Mass Effect games, starting with the first one. They're easy to understand, family-friendly and feature a great storyline.
4879  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Console RPGs, Part 1: The JRPG-What is wrong? on: July 26, 2010, 06:15:30 AM

Quote from: EddieA on July 25, 2010, 11:47:08 PM

Quote
BioWare co-founder, Greg Zeschuk threw in his two cents on the issue last Christmas, when he said the reason for the J-RPG downslide is because they're lacking "evolution".

He said: "The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression. They kept delivering the same thing over and over. They make the dressing better, they look prettier, but it's still the same experience."

That statement would only be more ridiculous if it were the president of Blizzard speaking slywink

Really? Because Bioware's RPGs don't follow a set mold (at least not since they dropped the Infinity engine). Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age are all very different types of RPGs from each other, for example, and there aren't really many others who make similar ones in the current market. And while Dragon Age is a bit retro in its style (on purpose), the Mass Effects had plenty of interesting innovations that are now being copied by other companies.
4880  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Console RPGs, Part 1: The JRPG-What is wrong? on: July 25, 2010, 06:18:40 AM

Quote from: semiconscious on July 24, 2010, 10:37:18 PM

Quote from: TiLT on July 24, 2010, 10:05:45 PM

Quote from: semiconscious on July 24, 2010, 09:50:11 PM

& i've also noticed that, oftentimes, adhering to strict definitions of 'concepts' is also not always that conducive to constructive discussions either slywink ...

Nobody is adhering to strict definitions. Our argument can be simplified down to this: Is *any* Japanese-made RPG a JRPG? I say no. You seem to say yes.

okay, here we go:

imo, the foundation of the whole 'jrpg' concept is tied to something referred to as 'framing the narrative'. once we come to accept your wikipedia's 'definition' of jrpg, & we then proceed to discuss, say, the pros & cons of western rpgs vs jrpgs, we've already performed something along the lines of a sleight of hand: we've mutually agreed to a format where it's permissible, when mentioning wrpgs, to include virtually every rpg ever made in the west, but, when talking about jrpgs, it's only permissible to include a particular portion of them - namely, those that conform to the wiki definition...

iow:

1) the wiki definition is attempting to form a 'consensus' involving a certain 'concept'
2) that definition is then used to fabricate what, to me, are basically totally bogus conversations (all wrpgs vs some jrpgs. jrpgs (not including the ones not included in the definition) haven't changed / kept up with the times.)

the thing is, framing the narrative can often be so insidious a trick, that, in this example, even people who enjoy jrpgs are often sucked in by it smile . so, as for me, yes - i say if all wrpgs are wrpgs, then all jrpgs are jrpgs. because anything short of that only empowers useless conversations based on a framed narrative...

Good argumentation, except you forget I already excluded a certain subgenre (roguelikes) from western RPGs earlier. slywink

Actually, I think you're correct in what you're saying here. I'm sort of dividing RPGs into two camps: Either they're a JRPG, or they're a western RPG (though keep in mind, I'm saying Demon's Souls is neither). The conclusion is that while I don't think all Japanese RPGs are JRPGs, I also don't think all western RPGs are WRPGS (though I apply less rigid requirements of that genre. It's much broader because by the time anyone thought to apply these labels to games in the first place, the western RPG genre was way more varied already than its Japanese counterpart).

We've said our parts. I'd actually like to hear what others have to say about this at this point.

Edit: For the record, outside of this conversation I never use the term "Western RPG". I talk about JRPGs and RPGs. It's all about style of game, not about its point of origin.
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