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4841  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: StarCraft 2: Wings of Liberty: It's Out!!!! on: August 02, 2010, 08:13:43 PM

Quote from: Caine on August 02, 2010, 06:49:46 PM

actually, i am expecting a thrice-bred ? version of kerrigan to emerge after some kinky zeratul/kerrigan phase warpy thing and you end up with a Dark over-Queen of the Templar Blades who controls infested protoss against a combined dominion-zerg force led by a twice-resurrected Arcturus Mengsk who has been melded at the waist to his son and somehow shares the personality with Liquid Snake. 

I'm 22 missions in, and that sounds about right.
4842  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty **Screenshots* (no -spoilers- please) on: August 02, 2010, 08:12:22 PM
Somehow I think a lot of you seemed to miss the "screenshots" and "no spoilers" parts of this thread's title.
4843  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: New i5 and i7's on the way on: August 01, 2010, 02:00:11 PM

Quote from: Destructor on July 29, 2010, 11:08:55 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on July 29, 2010, 07:11:37 PM

Does any game today even make full use of quad cores, much less Sextuple Cores? Or is it just so you can run 6 web browser instances without slowing down? Vroom, vroom, vroom?  SCIENCE!

Not in the slightest. If you're into rendering 3D images, maybe. But for games? Not at all.

What are you basing that on? Based on my experiences with game programming, it's not really a problem setting the engine up so that it'll use almost any amount of cores, and if you don't have them, it's all run on the ones you have instead.
4844  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty **Screenshots* (no -spoilers- please) on: July 31, 2010, 07:43:55 AM
Daehawk, I'm getting tons of "Address has been blocked" messages from NOD32 and your pictures.
4845  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 30, 2010, 03:57:29 PM

Quote from: Eightball on July 30, 2010, 03:44:13 PM

Quote from: TiLT on July 30, 2010, 08:15:26 AM

Yeah, the Meat Cleaver just doesn't work with my character, but the longsword is a decent suggestion. I'm considering going Blessed instead of stuff like Quality though, since my Faith is pretty high and the Magic damage is great for almost any enemy.

If you have high faith, then Blessed weapons make sense.  You can snag a blessed mace in 5-1.  However, a really good weapon to look at acquiring is Istarelle; a blessed spear with poison/plague resistance, and excellent stat adds for a faith melee build.  Very, very useful.

Too bad I'd need pure white tendency in world 5 to get it. I don't think that's going to happen.

The Large Sword of Moonlight looks like a decent alternative and is available through normal means in 5-2 with a bit of effort. I might try to go for that one.
4846  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 30, 2010, 08:15:26 AM
Yeah, the Meat Cleaver just doesn't work with my character, but the longsword is a decent suggestion. I'm considering going Blessed instead of stuff like Quality though, since my Faith is pretty high and the Magic damage is great for almost any enemy.
4847  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 29, 2010, 06:30:10 PM
So bows are much better than crossbows? One thing I like about my heavy crossbow is that I can wield it with a shield, though that's of limited use anyway since I have to stay still for a few seconds after a one-handed shot to reload. I just found a decent looking bow in 4-1, so I might consider swapping for that one if that is a good idea.

I've now killed the Dragon God (2-3) and Adjudicator (4-1). Things are progressing reasonably well. I tried heading into 1-3 as well, but that got a bit tough. Am I supposed to wait with that level until later in the game? I heard that you run into 3 Red-Eye Knights at once in that level, which sounds frightening.

Any suggestions for a good one-handed weapon that should be available to me at this point? I'm using the Crescent Falchion +1 from 4-1 right now, but since I'm not focusing on Magic, its damage output is starting to lag behind.
4848  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Amazon Kindle: Kindle 3! on: July 29, 2010, 12:12:08 PM
I want one of these, even though I've got a Kindle 2. smile
4849  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 29, 2010, 11:09:36 AM

Quote from: Jag on July 28, 2010, 01:30:22 PM

Quote from: TiLT on July 27, 2010, 09:28:28 PM

So, I've been playing this game a bit lately. My class is Temple Knight, and I'm playing him more or less by the book. That means wearing full armor and shield, and using melee weapons almost exclusively. No magic, and at soul level 37 I still only have my basic Heal miracle.

That is really impressive. Glad you are enjoying it.

I'm curious, is my play style really so rare as to be that impressive? I mean, I get the impression that the game encourages me to play the way I do, and it works really well.
4850  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [movie]At the Mountains of Madness on: July 29, 2010, 07:28:43 AM
Oh. My. God.  icon_eek

I've been waiting for this movie for about 10 years now, almost losing hope that it would ever be made. I really hope this rumor is true.
4851  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 28, 2010, 06:18:30 AM

Quote from: semiconscious on July 27, 2010, 10:29:36 PM

i was happy to see that atlus just announced they've extended the online support thru 3/11 (& turned on white world tendency till the end of the month to celebrate) - umbasa! smile ...

My worlds aren't pure white. Is this something that is specific to the American version? I can't find any info about this anywhere.
4852  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: July 27, 2010, 09:39:47 PM

Quote from: TK-421 on July 27, 2010, 07:50:50 PM


On the road to DBT's house:




LOL.
4853  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [ps3] demon's souls impressions on: July 27, 2010, 09:28:28 PM
So, I've been playing this game a bit lately. My class is Temple Knight, and I'm playing him more or less by the book. That means wearing full armor and shield, and using melee weapons almost exclusively. No magic, and at soul level 37 I still only have my basic Heal miracle.

So far I've defeated Phalanx, Tower Knight, Armor Spider, False Idol, and Flamelurker. In that order. I did all of them on the first try except Armor Spider and False Idol which caused my to die once each. Flamelurker was an extremely tense fight, but by keeping my head cool I managed to prevail. With the way I play my class, rolling around is out of the question, so I had to face him with my shield raised at all times, allowing him to attack me with all his might (and what might it was!). I was really dreading that fight, so to beat it on my first try was quite amazing. I could feel my heart beating fast as hell when I won.

The risk of losing everything has been a bit exaggerated in my opinion. I've only lost souls permanently once, and it wasn't a large amount. I always seem to be able to make it back to where I died so I can reclaim my lost souls.

I'm really starting to feel more powerful all the time, and it's extremely satisfying. Enemies that were really challenging at first (Blue-Eye Knight, I'm looking at you) are now mere pushovers, and enemies that were impossible (Red-Eye Knight. Hmm, I'm seeing a pattern here) now only require a little extra time and concentration.

I've decided not to raise my Magic high enough to cast spells, and instead focus exclusively on melee, a crossbow (for backup) and the occasional miracle. So far that has worked out really well for me. The only enemy that really keeps me on my toes so far is the Mind Flayer. If they can get in even one attack on me, that's usually enough for them to get into position to finish me off before I can mount a defense. Still, if I have room to maneuver all I need is enough space to dodge the first attack, at which point they'll run towards me (for reasons I can't fathom), opening themselves up to a chain of attacks that kills them before they can do anything else.

Loving the game so far. smile
4854  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Mass effect 2 Launch and impressions (the REAL One) on: July 27, 2010, 03:03:32 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on July 27, 2010, 02:16:01 PM

Quote from: Teggy on July 27, 2010, 01:08:06 PM

If anyone cares, the new Mass Effect book is out. I totally forgot I pre-ordered and it automatically downloaded to my Kindle this morning.

How many are there now? I read the first one. It was meh, but readable.  Haven't picked up the second. Is this the third?

Yup, this is the third. I've read the first two. The first was better than the second, mostly because of its relevance to the plot in Mass Effect 1. I'll probably end up reading the new one as well once I'm done with the Bourne trilogy. smile
4855  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: roleplaying game (neverwinter nights 2, morrowind, witcher, etc?) on: July 26, 2010, 05:57:23 PM
I would recommend the Mass Effect games, starting with the first one. They're easy to understand, family-friendly and feature a great storyline.
4856  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Console RPGs, Part 1: The JRPG-What is wrong? on: July 26, 2010, 06:15:30 AM

Quote from: EddieA on July 25, 2010, 11:47:08 PM

Quote
BioWare co-founder, Greg Zeschuk threw in his two cents on the issue last Christmas, when he said the reason for the J-RPG downslide is because they're lacking "evolution".

He said: "The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression. They kept delivering the same thing over and over. They make the dressing better, they look prettier, but it's still the same experience."

That statement would only be more ridiculous if it were the president of Blizzard speaking slywink

Really? Because Bioware's RPGs don't follow a set mold (at least not since they dropped the Infinity engine). Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age are all very different types of RPGs from each other, for example, and there aren't really many others who make similar ones in the current market. And while Dragon Age is a bit retro in its style (on purpose), the Mass Effects had plenty of interesting innovations that are now being copied by other companies.
4857  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Console RPGs, Part 1: The JRPG-What is wrong? on: July 25, 2010, 06:18:40 AM

Quote from: semiconscious on July 24, 2010, 10:37:18 PM

Quote from: TiLT on July 24, 2010, 10:05:45 PM

Quote from: semiconscious on July 24, 2010, 09:50:11 PM

& i've also noticed that, oftentimes, adhering to strict definitions of 'concepts' is also not always that conducive to constructive discussions either slywink ...

Nobody is adhering to strict definitions. Our argument can be simplified down to this: Is *any* Japanese-made RPG a JRPG? I say no. You seem to say yes.

okay, here we go:

imo, the foundation of the whole 'jrpg' concept is tied to something referred to as 'framing the narrative'. once we come to accept your wikipedia's 'definition' of jrpg, & we then proceed to discuss, say, the pros & cons of western rpgs vs jrpgs, we've already performed something along the lines of a sleight of hand: we've mutually agreed to a format where it's permissible, when mentioning wrpgs, to include virtually every rpg ever made in the west, but, when talking about jrpgs, it's only permissible to include a particular portion of them - namely, those that conform to the wiki definition...

iow:

1) the wiki definition is attempting to form a 'consensus' involving a certain 'concept'
2) that definition is then used to fabricate what, to me, are basically totally bogus conversations (all wrpgs vs some jrpgs. jrpgs (not including the ones not included in the definition) haven't changed / kept up with the times.)

the thing is, framing the narrative can often be so insidious a trick, that, in this example, even people who enjoy jrpgs are often sucked in by it smile . so, as for me, yes - i say if all wrpgs are wrpgs, then all jrpgs are jrpgs. because anything short of that only empowers useless conversations based on a framed narrative...

Good argumentation, except you forget I already excluded a certain subgenre (roguelikes) from western RPGs earlier. slywink

Actually, I think you're correct in what you're saying here. I'm sort of dividing RPGs into two camps: Either they're a JRPG, or they're a western RPG (though keep in mind, I'm saying Demon's Souls is neither). The conclusion is that while I don't think all Japanese RPGs are JRPGs, I also don't think all western RPGs are WRPGS (though I apply less rigid requirements of that genre. It's much broader because by the time anyone thought to apply these labels to games in the first place, the western RPG genre was way more varied already than its Japanese counterpart).

We've said our parts. I'd actually like to hear what others have to say about this at this point.

Edit: For the record, outside of this conversation I never use the term "Western RPG". I talk about JRPGs and RPGs. It's all about style of game, not about its point of origin.
4858  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Console RPGs, Part 1: The JRPG-What is wrong? on: July 24, 2010, 10:05:45 PM

Quote from: semiconscious on July 24, 2010, 09:50:11 PM

& i've also noticed that, oftentimes, adhering to strict definitions of 'concepts' is also not always that conducive to constructive discussions either slywink ...

Nobody is adhering to strict definitions. Our argument can be simplified down to this: Is *any* Japanese-made RPG a JRPG? I say no. You seem to say yes.
4859  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Console RPGs, Part 1: The JRPG-What is wrong? on: July 24, 2010, 09:43:47 PM

Quote from: semiconscious on July 24, 2010, 09:38:25 PM

well, doesn't adhering to that definition sorta condemn all 'jrpgs' to fundamentally being basically the same, then?

No, because western RPGs have their own definition and have managed to evolve without going too far outside it. A game doesn't need to fulfill all the subdefinitions listed in that article to qualify. Demon's Souls doesn't match the JRPG definition at all, and thus can't be classified as one.

That is, as long as you accept Wikipedia's definition of the genre (which you really should, IMO. It's a good definition). If you want to have your own, private definition of what a JRPG is, be my guest. That won't lead to constructive discussions about the subject, however.
4860  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Console RPGs, Part 1: The JRPG-What is wrong? on: July 24, 2010, 09:14:40 PM

Quote from: jersoc on July 24, 2010, 08:40:21 PM

Quote from: TiLT on July 24, 2010, 06:37:55 PM

I don't feel it's right to call Demon's Souls a JRPG. It's so different from other RPGs on the market that it's more like its own genre.

eh? You can't get anymore RPG than what DS is lol. Just because it doesn't follow a band of heroes out to save the world doesn't mean it isn't a JRPG. That's not what that means.

That's not what I said it means either. I said Demon's Souls isn't a JRPG. I didn't say it isn't an RPG (though it bends the genre somewhat). It has nearly no similarities to the traditional definition of what a JRPG is (look under "Cultural Differences"). It's actually much closer to western RPGs in design and gameplay, though the real similarities should be drawn to roguelikes, a type of RPGs that is so different from the regular mold that they have become a separate genre.

The word "JRPG" may literally be a shortened version of "Japanese Role-playing Game", but that's not what it actually means any more. It has become the definition of a very specific type of RPG experience, and may even be used for RPGs made by western developers (such as a bunch of free RPGs I've come across over the years, which were all heavily influenced by the JRPG genre.).
4861  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Console RPGs, Part 1: The JRPG-What is wrong? on: July 24, 2010, 06:37:55 PM
I don't feel it's right to call Demon's Souls a JRPG. It's so different from other RPGs on the market that it's more like its own genre.
4862  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: NWN 1 on Win7 64 bit? on: July 24, 2010, 05:46:07 PM
The rule of thumb is that 32-bit games and applications made for Windows XP or later shouldn't have any issues with Windows 7. There are always exceptions though.
4863  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Dragon Age: Origins 2 Comic Con impressions on: July 24, 2010, 08:38:25 AM
I've got mixed feelings about what's been presented so far, but adding voice to the main character gets a big thumbs-up from me. The lack of speech for the main character in the first game was always kind of disturbing.

For those who complained about the graphics in the first game, did you play it on a reasonably powerful PC with the view fully zoomed out? The game looked hand-painted at that scale. It was absolutely beautiful. When you zoomed in the effect was lost, but it worked very well in tactical view. I hope they retain that.
4864  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Console RPGs, Part 1: The JRPG-What is wrong? on: July 24, 2010, 08:31:11 AM
Good article!

I don't remember who, but (if I recall correctly) one of the current lead JRPG designers recently complained that the reason JRPGs are failing compared to western RPGs is because the latter is constantly changing and evolving, while the former has been standing still for years. He said that JRPGs have a lot to learn from western games.

For the record, I don't play nor like JRPGs. I simply can't stand anime, and I haven't seen a JRPG-setting that has felt anywhere near realistic to me yet (which is an important criteria for me personally).

That reminds me of another, related comment I read. JRPG heroes are usually all similar whereas western audiences are used to a more diverse cast. Japanese gamers are (supposedly) not ready for, say, an old, grizzled war veteran as the lead character. They expect a larger-than-life, young, attractive lead character, perhaps with a troubled past. The reason was that western audiences are more used to realism (comparatively) and variety in characters thanks to Hollywood, while Japanese audiences want a more fairytale approach that lets them forget about the worries of the real world.
4865  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Del Toro to remake Haunted Mansion(No Eddie Murphy) on: July 23, 2010, 10:15:48 AM
Where's At the Mountains of Madness? WHERE? WHEEEERE??  crybaby
4866  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: July 22, 2010, 07:03:15 PM

Quote from: Gratch on July 22, 2010, 02:20:17 PM



LOL, that's fantastic! biggrin You can see the cat reacting and stiffening long before it hits the water, and it jumps out so fast you don't even see it turn around.
4867  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: A Game of Thrones: Genesis on: July 18, 2010, 09:00:39 PM
There isn't really much room for an epic RPG within the confines of the story, unless you set the game far back in time.
4868  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: A Game of Thrones: Genesis on: July 16, 2010, 08:13:09 PM
This is promising. Fantasy Flight Games have already shown that it's possible to make a truly excellent strategy game in Westeros with A Game of Thrones: The Boardgame after all.
4869  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: DeathSpank - "Monkey Island meets Diablo" on: July 15, 2010, 05:25:41 PM

Quote from: Caine on July 15, 2010, 03:54:19 PM

Quote from: leo8877 on July 15, 2010, 03:58:55 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on July 15, 2010, 12:53:05 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on July 15, 2010, 12:43:03 AM

Quote from: Caine on July 15, 2010, 12:30:10 AM

Quote from: denoginizer on July 14, 2010, 11:22:14 PM

Quote from: vizionblind on July 14, 2010, 09:18:54 PM

no online co-op = fail

Yup.

it also singlehandedly drops this from buy now to buy on sale in a lull. Reviews pegged it at being on the shirt side as well, so I'll stick to my backlog and my rentals.

You'd prefer the pants side?

I can't wait to hear him pleat his case.

Hahahah

ha, yuck it up you louts.  i meant short.  the kotaku review said he plaid it for 8 hours and 25 minutes finishing 96% of the quests.  for a diablo clone, 8.5 hours is pretty short.

I haven't read the review, but that sounds about on par with Diablo 2 for me. Most of the longevity in that game came from replaying the campaign, either with different classes or at a higher level of difficulty.
4870  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Batman Arkham Asylum 2 on: July 15, 2010, 06:56:37 AM

Quote from: belfong on July 15, 2010, 06:17:56 AM

I think games that utilizes Unreal engine needs to take into consideration that many people are using LCD monitor.

Uh, yes. You are absolutely correct in that many people are using LCD monitors. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that more than 95% of us (probably more) do. The developers do too.

If the game is too dark for you no matter what you do, it's very likely your specific monitor. Different monitors have different brightness, and most get darker with age.
4871  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: ESRB accidentally releases email addresses of Real ID complainants on: July 13, 2010, 04:29:53 AM
That's got to be, like, the pinnacle of irony or something.  icon_lol
4872  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Dragon Age 2 on: July 13, 2010, 04:28:39 AM
It seems like they took the somewhat unique look of the game and made it look like any generic console RPG instead.
4873  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced on: July 09, 2010, 12:31:48 PM
LOTRO had this kind of "alertness" system years ago. Most hostile creatures will attack on sight (such as orcs and wargs). Others may warn you before attacking, giving you a few seconds to get away before things turn ugly. Examples of these include many animals, most of which will turn towards you and growl if they feel threatened. The third kind is creatures that find you interesting and will approach to get a closer look at you. Bear cubs will do this, for example. Once they get reasonably close, they may decide to attack.
4874  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [Movie] the Next Bond Movie has been Cancelled on: July 09, 2010, 06:17:30 AM

Quote from: rshetts2 on July 08, 2010, 09:59:49 PM

What the frack is that supposed to mean anyways? 

Beside the fact that Fleming used the title himself, it's a word play on the Quantum organization and that Bond's motivation in the movie is to find some degree of relief for his sorrow (ie. a quantum of solace) over the loss of the girl he loved.
4875  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: [Movie] the Next Bond Movie has been Cancelled on: July 06, 2010, 08:09:25 PM

Quote from: metallicorphan on July 06, 2010, 06:52:28 PM

although we know that the Hobbit has been put on hold as well,hopefully it wont get out and out canceled like James Bond has

Ian McKellen was just quoted as saying that an announcement about The Hobbit is imminent, but he didn't know its nature.
4876  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Champions Online (Cryptic's new MMO) on: June 30, 2010, 04:13:53 PM

Quote from: Cragmyre on June 30, 2010, 04:07:25 PM

In the city I also get citizen quests, which are now able to be done with 1-5 people.  There are also the bank robberies you can help stop, you'll notice that, at times, the cops will be around a bank, if you go near enough you'll get a popup quest to help them out.  Both of those types aren't necessarily quests, more like little side missions smile

I do the citizen quests religiously when I get them (I need the XP so that I won't run out of quests too early). The only ones I haven't done are the ones where you fight the Demon group, because those are horribly unbalanced and impossible for me to complete even when I'm 3 levels above them.
4877  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: June 30, 2010, 04:52:28 AM
We had a Captain Chaos (yeah, he had a name tag to that effect) when I was in the army. He had the worst boot polish in the entire unit.
4878  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Champions Online (Cryptic's new MMO) on: June 30, 2010, 04:50:03 AM
I created my character at launch and have been leveling him only occasionally, so there might have been changes to the leveling curve. I haven't heard about anything though, and it seems very few quests below max level have been added in patches.

My complaint about lack of quests is the most common complaint about this game from what I can see, so I'm not alone.
4879  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Sex offenders can be kept in prison on: June 30, 2010, 04:42:18 AM

Quote from: corruptrelic on June 29, 2010, 08:59:31 PM

There is no "cure", treatment only helps them to not act on their urges.

Actually, it is my understanding that most kinds of pedophilia (if that is what we're talking about) can be cured (and the success rate is high), but it takes many years. Pedophilia isn't really comparable to homosexuality, for example. Most pedophiles are attracted to adults.
4880  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Sex offenders can be kept in prison on: June 29, 2010, 12:42:13 PM

Quote from: Jaddison on June 29, 2010, 03:47:33 AM

Even if the description of the facility is even half true it still remains that these people were tried and sentenced and served their time as determined by jury or judge but are then denied their freedom.

I do not doubt that their crimes were severe but if they are so severe then the sentence of the court should be the mechanism to deprive them of their freedom not some administrative trick.

If they can do this to them they can come with other "tricks" as they define other types of undesirables.

Bingo!

Even if the description corruptrelic came up with is true (which I doubt), it doesn't bother me too much. These people have already been punished and have served their time. The idea behind these rehabilitation centers is to make these people safe to release into the general society. Their freedom is taken away from them during this time (I'm continually amazed at how little value people put on freedom when discussions about prisons come up. Freedom is a basic human right, and losing it is a major blow to just about anyone), and giving them some degree of "luxury" during their rehabilitation hardly compensates.

Don't forget that when the treatment is over and the (now cured) sex offenders are released back into society, they will be able to become productive and contribute to society at large (if nothing else, by paying taxes). This way they end up paying back the costs of the treatment in a concrete way.

Don't let the idea of sex offenders having some comfort during their treatment cloud your judgment. I'd be willing to bet that if there was a possibility for them to be instantly cured and released (without having to be neutered or anything like that), every one of them would take it instead of spending more time in treatment.
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