Did you notice how in #5, they bitch at Luke for listening to Obi-wan?

I mean, they make targeting systems for a reason, Luke—and chances are, the Rebel's would prefer to trust your X-Wing's highly sophisticated on-board computer than a mystical power you spent a few hours learning yesterday afternoon.

Of course, the few hours of force training was more than he got from the Rebel Alliance.  I mean, the guy had never flown a X-Wing before and they made him Red Leader.  If the bad guys couldn't catch these rebels, then they deserved to have their death star blown up.

[geek hat]I think it was mentioned during the briefing before the attack on the Death Star that the targeting computers on the Y-Wings and X-Wings weren't accurate enough to hit the exhaust port with any kind of precision, but they had to take the chance. Luke avoided that problem by relying on the Force instead. [/geek hat]

which I Seem to recall took around 2 days last time?

   Fuck, I hope not.  LOTRO should be with me by the weekend, I don't want to spend the whole weekend patching then go back to work without having played it!

As long as you have a halfway decent internet connection, you can let it patch overnight.

I read the article about the combat update, and I'm not sure I like it. With percentages, you can get a good estimate of your abilities at a glance (25% common resistance? OK, that means I'll just take 25% damage from incoming Common damage). Now however, it'll be much harder to make these estimates (2500 common resistance? OK, that means... uh... what exactly?). They're probably mostly doing this so that weapons can have "bigger" bonuses ("yay, my sword gives a +1000 parry chance! That's much better than the crappy 2% parry chance before the patch") even if they are actually the same bonuses as before.

game world just doesnt lend itself to a MMO.  Either you have no siths and jedi or you have a zillion.  You cant design a game where only a few people get to be the heroes.

In the Tales of the Jedi era (where the KOTOR games are set) there are thousands of jedi across the galaxy. Every single player on a server could play a jedi character, and it still wouldn't break with the setting.

Try playing a captain in the Rift. You'll feel completely useless most of the time, as all you can do until a battle is well under control is mostly to just stand around and look cool.

And based on one of the other threads, apparently the DRM has been completely cracked. And look at that - it's BEFORE release, too. I see that the protection was flawless as usual.

It's an unusual situation in that the pirates got hold of the game only yesterday. Usually they get them much earlier, so they haven't had time to get it cracked yet. Expect to see that change today.

[Lead the Charge]

Hmm, I don't think any of the three captain paths fit my playing style completely. I'm a bit of a mix between Lead the Charge and Hands of Healing. I think the latter might be the best fit for me, but we'll see when everything goes live. I love being able to take on all kinds of roles during battle; Jumping into the middle of the fray and meleeing my opponents, intercepting anything approaching the healer and keeping it busy, while throwing a heal towards the healer so he can keep focusing on the rest of the fellowship... and of course, buffing my allies. I've become so comfortable with the captain over time that I can do all these things in the same battle. Naturally, the rest of the fellowship never notices, but that's the life of the captain for you.

Is MoM considered book 15 or does book 15 come out before/with MoM?
Any sites have some detailed info on the Runekeeper?  It looks like the lore fighting is so bad on the official site that actual details are hard to find.

Book 15 is a "regular patch" that is applied at the same day as MoM is released. What this means is that even if you don't buy the expansion, you'll have a big patch to go through that day which will give you a surprising amount of new stuff to play with. Among these things is the Book 15 story itself, 90% of the region of Eregion (fully fleshed out with quests and towns), crafting guilds, a new mount, and some other stuff.

MoM is not considered Book 15. It is considered Volume 2, and contains books 1 to 6 or 7, I believe.

Shut the f**k up!



I can't say I've noticed the same trend as you. If it's there, perhaps it's because almost everyone is nervous about the upcoming election?

What makes it even worse is that nobody can even play the game legally before the release date because of SecuRom. So even if someone here did have the game, they can't really give any impressions other than "well, the SecuRom splash screen looks nice".

Please. You can't play it because it because the publisher doesn't want you to until release day. Bitch about the publisher not releasing the game early, not Securom.

Perhaps you should read my post again with a different mindset. I wasn't complaining about SecuRom. I was saying that an impression thread today is pointless when even those who manage to get a copy early won't be able to play until tomorrow.

Uh, I'm not sure why people are discussing the amount of XP per level here. That isn't what defines a casual game. It's casual if you can boot it up, play for 30 minutes or so, and make real actual progress while having fun. My experience with WoW is that it at an early stage heavily encourages you to go through instances that take 5-6 hours for new players to finish, and over time the importance of these instances is emphasized more and more.

I definitely consider myself "casual"... I just got into WoW this year, and I have yet to do an instance other than Deadmines.  Sure, if you want the phat lewt, you need to do them, but I'm level 45, put in nearly 100 hours (over 6 months), and there's plenty to do that doesn't require a several hour committment.

This is true, which is why I didn't say that WoW forces you to go hardcore. You're always free to remain casual, but you get punished hard for it by not being anywhere near competitive, and certainly not in the ballpark where Blizzard expects its players to be. This is one of the main differences between WoW and LOTRO, for example. In LOTRO, you have the freedom of going solo pretty much the entire way through your career and still have as good, or nearly as good, equipment as the hardcore raiders (by doing different kinds of casual challenges like the epic story quests). Or you could focus on PvP and get different, but just as good equipment. Or you could go do regular group instances all day long and get your equipment through a different way. Or hell, you can even save up money and go buy it at the auction hall. The point is, LOTRO doesn't force you into doing one specific thing in order to be among the "best". This doesn't appeal to hardcore raiders, who often seem to do what they do just to enlarge their e-penis, but it appeals a lot to most casual gamers. Which is what this thread is about, after all.

I just don't give a crap.

Do you ever? 

What makes it even worse is that nobody can even play the game legally before the release date because of SecuRom. So even if someone here did have the game, they can't really give any impressions other than "well, the SecuRom splash screen looks nice".

They don't have to be cocky but cool rebels. Jones Soda was stupid to threaten with a lawsuit over an obvious parody anyway.

Uh, I'm not sure why people are discussing the amount of XP per level here. That isn't what defines a casual game. It's casual if you can boot it up, play for 30 minutes or so, and make real actual progress while having fun. My experience with WoW is that it at an early stage heavily encourages you to go through instances that take 5-6 hours for new players to finish, and over time the importance of these instances is emphasized more and more.

I'd say that's a very misleading assessment.  The only instances in WoW that take 5-6 hours are the raids, which have their progress saved (refreshed every week) so a group can break it into smaller chunks.  All other instances can be completed in under 2-2.5 hours for a slow or inexperienced group and under an hour for a well-geared, knowledgeable group.  Not to mention that running instances is only one type of endgame play; people often do either variety of PvP, run dailies, play the auction house, or just sit and socialize.  All of which is moot, because if 30 minutes at a time is a significant investment for you as a player, you're never going to hit the max level anyway.  So you don't even have to worry about "grinding" endgame activities, because you can busy yourself exploring the world and running quests.

Granted, it's been a while since I played WoW, but I remember stuff like the Wailing Caverns taking the time I mentioned above. Jaddison says a group that knows what it's doing will get through it in 2.5 hours. If you're a casual gamer, you probably won't be able to get close to that, unless you're in a group of hardcore gamers (which makes it less likely they'd invite you in the first place). The argument "if you know what you're doing" is often a valid one, but not in the context of casual gaming.

[you]

You guys keep throwing crap out there like "DRM doesn't work, its useless".  Can you link to something by someone with actual industry experience/expertise that says that?  Because otherwise, I'm going to assume that the software industry is smart enough to do what is best for their product.

Thank you for calling my opinion "crap". That sure sets the proper tone for the discussion.

The game industry doesn't share its numbers with the public, with the exception of vastly exaggerated numbers with no basis in reality (like: "Piracy costs us *insert imaginary number here* Dollars every year!!!"). From what certain software developers who don't deal with games have told me however, it seems that DRM has no effect on piracy unless the DRM manages to make piracy impossible. Unless the game industry starts using dongles for their games, that's just not going to happen. (I'm speaking only of the PC industry here, of course. Consoles like the PS3 already use hardware verification, which renders piracy close enough to impossible that nobody bothers with it)

There's also the simple fact that pirated games are usually available on the Internet before their retail release, which shows pretty clearly how effective DRM is at stopping piracy. Anyone can download a torrent these days, and there are even simpler ways of getting these releases for those who have some technical savvy.

Let's turn the whole thing on its head: Since game developers and publishers should theoretically be more willing to talk about the success of DRM schemes, let's see you dig up some hard facts. Unless someone can prove that piracy is stopped by today's DRM schemes, my opinion is set in stone.

I think you might just want to try both LOTRO and Warhammer. While I haven't tried Warhammer myself, I believe it's so different from LOTRO that they can hardly even be called the same genre. What is most fun to you is entirely up to personal preference.

Uh, I'm not sure why people are discussing the amount of XP per level here. That isn't what defines a casual game. It's casual if you can boot it up, play for 30 minutes or so, and make real actual progress while having fun. My experience with WoW is that it at an early stage heavily encourages you to go through instances that take 5-6 hours for new players to finish, and over time the importance of these instances is emphasized more and more.

Compare that to LOTRO (which is a good comparison since the two games share many gameplay mechanics) where there are very few long instances, and they rarely if ever last more than 2-3 hours anyway, and don't offer loot that's substantially better than what you can get in other ways (while having fun). Even the endgame in LOTRO isn't focused on instances in any way. The gameplay remains roughly the same throughout the entire game, whereas WoW not-so-gently pushes you towards doing content that takes a lot more time and effort.

XP isn't a factor in this. From what I remember, there were enough quests in WoW that you never needed to grind anyway.

What it boils down to is this: Some people have real, actual problems getting DRM games to run, either now or in the future. And for what? DRM has no observable effect against piracy (and arguably even encourages it). What's the point in trying to defend DRM when there are only negatives and no positives, even if the negatives don't directly affect you?

I don't think they can get much more casual than WoW.  I've had an awful lot of fun over the years without having to get absorbed into raiding.  There's some neat stuff in the new patch, so maybe you should give it another trial before investing in a new game?

WoW is the kind of MMORPG that initially appeals to casual players, then gradually punishes them more and more for staying casual. It's one of the biggest reasons I would strongly suggest you don't play WoW if your expectation is to avoid hardcore gaming.

I don't remember the exact figure, but I think Blizzard has said something to the effect of them considering any player who plays 20 hours or less a week as casual. That says a lot to me.

Told you guys I hadn't played the game in a good long time. 

So apparently the movie takes elements from both games, I guess.

I'm telling you, there is no Natasha in either game. Only three women involved.

Max's partner in the second game isn't even an official police partner. It's Mona.

The MMORPG that usually gets described as casual friendly the most out of the current generation is LOTRO. It's well suited to short bursts of play. Even most group instances only take about 15 minutes to complete.

Its a shame "3 separate PCs" actually means "3 different hardware configurations". I know I feel like uninstalling all of my games before switching video cards

Are you sure that just changing a video card is enough to initiate a new activation?  It seems like with most other activation schemes you have to change multiple pieces of hardware before it perceives it as a new or different computer. 

It depends on the type of hardware. I believe a video card counts as a major change. I've also had my hardware configuration change upon rebooting my computer, for no apparent reason.

...goes through Max meeting Natasha and her dying with his wallet...

Huh? This doesn't sound familiar at all. AFAIK, there were only three women involved in the storylines of the two games: Max's wife, Mona, and the Big Bad in the first game.

This was near the very beginning of the game.  After Max is at the subway, he goes to his snitch, meets Natasha there.  She comes on to him in his apartment, and he kicks her out.  She's killed just outside, and has stolen his wallet. 

Either my memory is failing me, or this isn't part of the game at all. I played through both Max Paynes about 6 months ago, so it's reasonably fresh in my mind. IIRC, what happens after Payne is done at the subway is that he heads to the Finito Brothers for information, and they betray him. Max's wallet isn't even mentioned in any of the two games.

...goes through Max meeting Natasha and her dying with his wallet...

Huh? This doesn't sound familiar at all. AFAIK, there were only three women involved in the storylines of the two games: Max's wife, Mona, and the Big Bad in the first game.

Archer pets for captains? Interesting... I can see that being useful in a few cases, but I'll still stick with my war and victory banners.

I never got into Star Trek.  Certainly not the TV show, although as a kid I remember watching some of the films at least once.  But because so many other franchises have had such successful reboots I'm a little intrigued by the new Star Trek.  If reviews are positive I may give it a try. 

I was just about to post this very same thing. Tell me, how long have you been reading my thoughts exactly? 

When you read the word "instances" for LOTRO, it doesn't mean the same thing as in WoW. The actual number of new group instances that will take time to go through is probably going to be closer to 8 or so, possibly less. LOTRO instances are often more story-based, and occasionally even solo, and they usually take 15 minutes or less to complete. On the other hand, the big instances in LOTRO feel far more epic than I can remember any WoW instance to be (before the expansions, at least. I stopped playing before them).

I guess I should post a dissenting opinion: I'm not enjoying this game. I've played through about 6 or so levels so far, and they have been a chore. The game feels random and twitchy, but despite my quick reflexes I don't feel like I'm actually doing much good. There's no tutorial to speak of, so you're tossed straight into the thick of things without knowing more than just the basic control system (which isn't all that good either. Selecting the proper blob from your horde during hectic moments is annoyingly difficult).

I loved Bridge Builder and Pontifex, but this game just isn't doing anything for me. I've booted it up several times now to see if I was just in a bad mood or something when I first tried it, but every time I just end up closing the thing in mild disgust after a level.

Max Payne is probably not going to go over well with most reviewers. It's a story that is based upon being cliched, and reviewers hate that. I'm more interested in what fans of the games will have to say.

My favorite part of the debate? This picture:



 

Destructor, I was absolutely with you regarding Spore, but if - and yes, it's a big if - everything in the OP is true, surely it's not that bad?  How does it do anything other than prevent you from installing one copy of the game on more than three PCs at the same time?

As long as you uninstall properly. What if your HD fails (which isn't all that unusual)? That's one lost installation right there. What if you get a BSOD while you play the game, corrupting the game directory? That's another lost install.

You could call this grasping at straws, but that would be better applied to the concept of DRM in the first place. There's no room for DRM among modern consumers. Companies like Stardock have proven that as long as you treat your customers with respect and don't just initially assume they're pirates, you'll sell more copies of your games. DRM is just there so that a corporate executive can point to a piece of paper and say "We're losing money to piracy? Well, at least I *tried* to prevent that." even if the DRM is completely ineffective (as it usually is). It's nothing but a part of the paper trail to let them cover their asses. They know it doesn't work. Why should we consumers suffer the consequences of that?

Is the Impulse version the European version, or censored N. American version, or is that all mashed together in the EE?

From what I've heard, the Impulse version is the censored (American) version.

She's hot, but she certainly didn't manage to keep my attention for 30 seconds. Perhaps if the message was combined with stripping. Yes, that would certainly keep my attention...

What's the difference between C++ and C#?  I only have very basic programming ability from college classes.  I understand computer language and can still program the basics, but I haven't kept up with all the latest language improvements.

Heh, C++ was just becoming the widespread standard when I was studying it.

C# and C++ both share the C approach to syntax, but they are very different in how they approach programming. C++ gives you control over practically EVERYTHING, which means that most things take ages to code and are very vulnerable to subtle bugs that may take months to surface. Unless you install custom libraries like Boost, you're stuck having to do a lot of basic things from scratch. C++ is fast and effective once its code is compiled and run, but getting there can be a chore.

C# hides most of the advanced stuff from you, instead giving you access to what you need through standard libraries (and .NET). You don't have to spend ages coding stuff to get results, and even a beginning programmer should be able to make relatively bug-free code. On the other hand, C# isn't even in the same ballpark as C++ when it comes to execution speed, which makes C++ the only realistic alternative when making commercial games.

You can learn C# in a matter of weeks, while learning C++ properly takes years.

Argh, they're keeping the captain information for last, the bastards!

If anyone needs a job in San Francisco let me know.  They're hiring like mad right now...and I get a nice referral bonus I'd be glad to share.

Too bad I don't live anywhere near SF, or I'd throw myself at that offer in a second.

Sounds like you've found something fun to do while earning money doing it. Can't get any better than that.

Holy cow you were right about one thing. There is more than enough power. I just finished creating my own class called Entity and made a loop that creates an array of Entity instances, constructs them, then initializes them. I kept the number of Entity instances down to 100 while doing this, just because I was afraid of how long it would take. For a lark, I just set the maxEntities number to 10,000 and let the method run. It took less than one frame to initialize all 10,000 instances. Took up a bit of memory though. 4 megs. Oh boy.

As mentioned above, a frame is worthless as a way of measuring execution time, for many many reasons. If you want to measure how long it takes you to do something during debugging (and you should, as this will help remove headaches later on), save the system time before and after a series of operations, and compare the results.

So far C# is fast enough. One trick I'm doing as a holdover from the old days is using only integers rather than time & memory consuming strings as fields within my entities. eg. Entity Bob's field 'idJob' = 1, and I just have to know that 1 = 'peasant'. Even with a hundred fields my entities only take up take up 400 bytes and are lightning fast to access.

Whether you use an int or a long or a string isn't really important (as long as you don't do string comparisons all over the place. That's a big no-no). C# should be good at optimizing this stuff for you. You need to think in terms of readability and flexibility instead. The system you're describing above is a common way of avoiding string comparisons, and is a good start. However, the numbers you find easy to read now will be HELL when you return to them in a few months and try to figure out what you were thinking at the time. Use enums.
 
As an aside, and speaking as a C++ programmer, if you're REALLY concerned about speed and size of your variables, you'll save as much info as you can in each variable, then extract that information using bitwise operators (^, &, | and ~). Using this method, you can for example store 8 separate booleans in one single byte. Very handy, especially when you need to transfer stuff over an internet connection.

I think you might want to read up on general optimization techniques for games before you code any further. It's better if you know as much as you can about this before you design your entire system, instead of having to retrofit the techniques later. Some things you learn are going to surprise you.

Man this C# is cooler than I expected. 

It is. I started learning it about 6 months ago, and I'm already about to get a job where I'll be making C# code all day. Can't wait.

So, do you think its worth buying the enhanced version if you already have the original, or just wait for the patch in March?

March? What are you talking about? The patch was released the same day as the Enhanced Edition.

Unless you're just worried the demand is there

I am. There are cases where traditional supply and demand don't work as they should. Starcraft would be one such case. I'm sure the rabid fans (and most of Blizzard's fans are exactly that) would purchase it even if it was just a 3D multiplayer version of Starcraft 1 with no singleplayer campaign. I'm afraid that the big franchises will start to take advantage of this, beginning a trend that would eventually infest non-franchise games as well.

In short, I'm worried about the impact this could have on the industry exactly because Starcraft is an exceptional franchise, and some executives somewhere in the system might not realize it.

Also, consumers are idiots. I can back that up with science.