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3841  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: More interesting kickstarter games on: May 15, 2012, 10:59:58 AM

Quote from: wonderpug on May 15, 2012, 10:55:38 AM

Is everyone picturing WoW size or bust when they think MMO?  I don't see why you can't have big and small MMOs just as you would any other type of game. 

The costs for this kind of thing aren't linear. Building a game of half the size (relatively speaking) as WoW doesn't mean it costs half as much to develop. Even if someone tries to develop a small MMO they'll need a considerable amount of customers to stay afloat, or at least serious customer loyalty (like EVE Online has).
3842  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: More interesting kickstarter games on: May 15, 2012, 10:38:43 AM

Quote from: EddieA on May 15, 2012, 07:31:22 AM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on May 15, 2012, 04:12:02 AM

I would be doubly wary of anyone Kickstarting an MMO, especially one that thinks they only need $50k to do it.  That's not even one year's salary for a single mid-level programmer, and MMO's are not quick or easy to develop.  At all.

It looks like the $50K is going to be used to produce a short tech demo in order to get publishers interested in funding the actual game.  They're also producing an RPG book, and that's what you get for funding them.

Doesn't matter, IMHO. The following still stands:

Quote from: Turtle on May 15, 2012, 05:50:28 AM

Anyone with half-way decent business sense would not be trying to make an MMO at this point in the game.

The chance of these guys eventually succeeding is so small as to be virtually unmeasurable. There is no room for new MMOs in today's market (unless you have one hell of a licensed property, and Pathfinder isn't one. Hell, even that just marginally increases your chances at this point). At least they have a better chance than this guy.
3843  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Diablo III on: May 15, 2012, 05:02:06 AM
Just got up and played for a bit. Had no trouble logging in now. Since I never tried the beta, this is actually my first time playing the game in any form.
3844  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Diablo III on: May 14, 2012, 10:41:58 PM
Bah, fuck it! I'm going to bed and getting up early instead. The login situation is just getting worse.
3845  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Diablo III on: May 14, 2012, 10:32:03 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on May 14, 2012, 10:30:02 PM

watching a stream of a guy in EU trying to login, and he just accidentally typed his password in the username field  O_o

The cursor stays in the password field most of the time after a failed login, but it will randomly jump to the username field instead, making what you just said very likely to happen eventually.
3846  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Diablo III on: May 14, 2012, 10:23:58 PM

Quote from: Covenant on May 14, 2012, 10:22:22 PM

Lucky bastard 

I wouldn't say that just yet. Over 20 minutes since launch and I've yet to go past the login window. At this rate I would have been better off just getting up early instead of staying up late.
3847  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Diablo III on: May 14, 2012, 10:18:57 PM

Quote from: Covenant on May 14, 2012, 10:16:09 PM

Tilt, where are you playing from that it's supposed to be available to you already?  Outside the states?

I would say so. I don't have much choice in the matter considering that I'm a Norwegian living in Norway. slywink
3848  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Diablo III on: May 14, 2012, 10:05:56 PM
Aaand now that it's open it's impossible to log in. Got the error 37 thing we have been warned just means that we should try again, but the latest was a message about an unexpected outage for the server.

The irony is that all I want to do is to play single player. I won't ever play this game MP anyway.
3849  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Diablo III on: May 14, 2012, 09:01:13 PM
One hour left...
3850  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Networks Start Revealing Fall 2012 TV Schedules on: May 14, 2012, 07:34:53 PM

Quote from: rickfc on May 14, 2012, 12:44:37 PM


Looks pretty decent if you're willing to ignore all logic, all real physics, extreme stretches in the effects of social breakdown, supermodels EVERYWHERE with clean clothes and whitened teeth 15 years after the apocalypse, and the blatant fact that J.J. Abrams is essentially just throwing mystery dramas at the screen in order to see if he can make one stick and become the new Lost.

In other words, it actually looks pretty crap. Sorry.
3851  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Battlefield 'Elite' rival to be revealed at E3? on: May 14, 2012, 04:46:13 PM

Quote from: USMC Kato on May 14, 2012, 04:41:40 PM

No thanks. Guess I'll get my shooter fix with Max Payne and Ghost Recon.

I don't even have a shooter fix any more, thanks to these games, and particularly thanks to Call of Duty. They've been churning out one uninspired sequel after another to the point where one of my favorite genres (FPS) no longer contains even the slightest spark of joy for me.
3852  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Diablo III on: May 14, 2012, 03:40:02 PM
6 hours and twenty minutes until I can actually play... if I decide to stay up late, that is. Still not decided.
3853  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What are you buying this week? (05/14) on: May 14, 2012, 07:01:08 AM
Isn't it just "Game of Thrones" for the computer game since it's based on the series?

I got my Diablo 3 box on Saturday, so I guess that counts as a purchase this week. Tongue Those silly Game of Thrones developers made a serious blunder by releasing their game this week. They're going to launch in total obscurity. By the time people are done with Diablo 3 and ready for something different, they'll have forgotten all about GoT.
3854  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Alerts to Threats in Europe by John Cleese on: May 14, 2012, 06:14:13 AM

Quote from: Teggy on May 13, 2012, 03:08:25 PM

Don't think that's written by Cleese. http://tartfromhell.com/2007/03

Original attribution seems difficult to determine.

This seems to happen once in a while. Someone writes a piece of satire and it is for some reason credited to John Cleese simply because it's A) comedy and B) British. It's sort of like navigating a file sharing service and noticing that every single piece of movie music ever was written by John Williams.
3855  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Diablo III on: May 12, 2012, 09:07:45 PM
Received the game box in the mail today. Can't install it yet, but I was able to activate my copy on Battle.net so that I can download the game client in addition to my game discs. The disc version was considerably cheaper than the download version. This is what happens when only one party controls the online sales for a popular game franchise with no chance of competition.
3856  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Mystery GOG countdown (now general GOG discussion) on: May 12, 2012, 09:33:41 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on May 11, 2012, 11:07:13 PM

Quote from: TiLT on May 10, 2012, 08:05:40 PM

Quote from: Morgul on May 10, 2012, 06:29:14 PM

Quest for glory 1 - 5...  So you want to be a hero?

Bring on the antwerp!

Best GOG release ever, after Lands of Lore.

speaking of which, where's Lands of Lore 3?

Hopefully buried at the bottom of the sea, never again to see the light of day.
3857  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [360/PS3]Resident Evil 6 on: May 12, 2012, 09:32:21 AM

Quote from: Turtle on May 11, 2012, 10:20:55 PM

But literally saw the screenshot of a zombie in full, clean, combat gear in a pose that wouldn't look out of place in Call of Duty or Counter-Strike, except for the zombie face.

You must be forgetting that we had the exact same thing in RE4. smile
3858  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [360/PS3]Resident Evil 6 on: May 11, 2012, 02:59:51 PM

Quote from: Turtle on May 11, 2012, 02:35:44 PM

They've gone full retard...

Zombies in combat gear with assault rifles...

Really sorry if that's a spoiler, but... I mean... not sure what to think about that.

I don't think we're going to see the standard zombies in this game. I get the impression that the virus here is a combination between the ones we've seen before. This means that there's likely to be elements of Las Plagas in it, keeping the infected at least partway intelligent.
3859  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Mystery GOG countdown (now general GOG discussion) on: May 10, 2012, 08:05:40 PM

Quote from: Morgul on May 10, 2012, 06:29:14 PM

Quest for glory 1 - 5...  So you want to be a hero?

Bring on the antwerp!

Best GOG release ever, after Lands of Lore.
3860  Gaming / Portable Gaming & Apps / Re: [Vita] Mortal Kombat - the touchscreen fatalities begin! on: May 10, 2012, 04:54:48 AM

Quote from: Gratch on May 10, 2012, 03:40:18 AM

Knew i shouldn't have bought this game.  After 5 days of practice, I still cant even beat thr first fight in story mode.

saywhat

I don't even understand how that is humanly possible. Are you sure you're playing on the very lowest difficulty setting? That fight could be won with simple button mashing.
3861  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Match and Magic Kickstarter (calling all PQ fans) on: May 08, 2012, 03:29:41 PM

Quote from: Misguided on May 08, 2012, 03:10:27 PM

I've got a list of thoughts going to send to Jeff. The game has potential to be a lot of fun, but I don't think it is quite there yet.

Yeah, it lacks the polish but is otherwise good. In game developer terms, he's done with 90% of the work. Now he's only got 90% left. slywink
3862  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Diablo III on: May 08, 2012, 01:12:04 PM
Just preordered this game today, though not from the Battle.net store. The prizes there are insane. It's much cheaper to buy from a regular store over here, so despite my misgivings about using physical media for games any more, that's what I'm going to do.

My biggest problem with Diablo 3 is that none of the classes appeal to me. Or rather, I can see the charm in playing some of them, but none of them sticks out as an obvious first choice for when I start the game next week. In both the previous games there was one class that appealed much more to me than the others.

Oh well, I guess I'll just play a Monk. That class seems the closest to what I'm looking for.
3863  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rainbow Moon - PSN Strategy RPG on: May 08, 2012, 10:35:20 AM
This really should have been a Vita game...
3864  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Match and Magic Kickstarter (calling all PQ fans) on: May 08, 2012, 09:08:39 AM
A crazy thing just happened. This game looked like it wouldn't meet its funding goal. It was at about $5200 and needed $15,000. Then about 2 hours ago someone went and grabbed the $5000 reward level. Not only that, but they seem to have added another $5000 (or nearly so) on top of that, singlehandedly bringing the game a mere $6 above its funding level 68 hours before deadline. Let's hope the benevolent backer doesn't get cold feet and pull out. smile
3865  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: XCOM: Enemy Unknown on: May 06, 2012, 08:19:15 AM
My problem is with the reasoning behind the change, in fact. They've made the X-Com soldiers into superheroes with all these cool skills and abilities. That's not X-Com to me. The soldiers should be capable, but not absurdly so. Their job is to run into the battlefield in groups and hope that they'll come out alive on the other end. They're not supposed to use grappling hooks to fly onto roofs. The developers wanted to give the characters plenty to do, but found that having plenty to do bogged down the game. The result is that they cut the amount of soldiers instead of the amount of available skills and actions, and I feel that's the wrong decision.
3866  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Help me find this image: Work Smarter Not Harder on: May 03, 2012, 08:17:39 PM
Ah, the good old "work smarter, not harder" line. It's one of the best ways to make people curse your name when you're out of hearing distance. slywink
3867  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Fileplanet No More on: May 03, 2012, 07:08:41 PM
Thank god! Fileplanet's existence always annoyed me.
3868  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Elder Scrolls Online on: May 03, 2012, 06:44:05 PM
This is Bethesda's biggest mistake with the Elder Scrolls property ever. This is going to bite them in the ass. Hard! Who the fuck cares about Tamriel? It's one of the most generic RPG settings we have these days (quick, name 5 of your favorite Elder Scrolls characters! Full names only! Ready to give up yet?), and is only successful because of the quality of the game mechanics and the sheer scale of the things. By going MMO they're going to have to change the game mechanics and they'll no longer be competitive when it comes to scale. All we're left with is the dull setting.
3869  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Kickstarter burnout? on: May 01, 2012, 09:17:15 AM
I see nothing in that article about any legal action taken against the person behind the Kickstarter. Shouldn't this be a police matter at this point?
3870  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Why in hell do people still refer this gen as next gen?!? Aren't we past that? on: April 30, 2012, 07:50:44 AM
It's just because people use words without thinking about their meaning. To most people "next-gen" is just a word like any other. I don't hear people use it about the current generation very often any more, but I make sure to point it out when they do.
3871  Gaming / Portable Gaming & Apps / Re: 3ds firmware plus mk7 patch incoming.. on: April 29, 2012, 08:11:03 AM
It would have been nice if you actually told us what the patch/firmware is, or at least linked us to some kind of description. slywink
3872  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Shadowrun Kickstarter on: April 28, 2012, 09:12:42 PM
FYI, the physical adept is in. The goal has been reached.
3873  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Shadowrun Kickstarter on: April 28, 2012, 11:18:17 AM

Quote from: Razgon on April 28, 2012, 10:18:52 AM

I really don't understand why Physical Adepts wouldn't be in the game already? I do seem to remember that in the first and second edition they were in a suppemental rulesbook, but as of 3rd edition Shadowrun, I think they were a standard part of the character creation options?

Well, that's an easy question to answer: Because every class costs time and money to implement. From what I've heard, Physical Adepts are a pretty complex class in the first place, which means they require particular care and attention from the developers. This isn't a AAA-game after all. They need to prioritize where to spend their money.
3874  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Shadowrun Kickstarter on: April 28, 2012, 09:15:13 AM
I pledged for the $125 reward a while ago, adding $15 for international shipping. It's a good thing I find games to be good investments. smile
3875  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Norwegian about to be sentenced in the US for aggravated assault... or? on: April 27, 2012, 05:07:05 PM
I get the impression I must be really bad at getting my points across, because I keep having to repeat statements with different words, and the things I write are either skipped or misunderstood.

Quote from: GargoyleBoy on April 27, 2012, 04:38:43 PM

Quote
She (John's mother) got out and walked alongside, trying to explain to people why they just needed to go a little further.

but, somehow:
Quote
John, however, said Thursday during an interview with 12 News from Navajo County Jail in Holbrook, that he had no idea he was on a one-way street.

So, his mother knew enough to get out of the car, walk alongside, and try to explain, but he himself had no idea it was a one-way street?  Doubtful.

His mother got out because they were being surrounded by an angry mob. What she was trying to explain to them is unknown. John himself stayed inside the car with the windows rolled up and with music on the stereo. I don't think he talked with his mother again until later, ie. the point where he started backing up. I don't know if the two sides agree on that part of her explanation, but that's the extent of the situation. John apparently wasn't aware that he had been driving down a one-way street until after he was taken in by the police, and I don't think the prosecution attempted to dispute that. There are much better parts of the explanation to raise your eyebrows at, but you're getting to those...

Quote
This, I think, is the crux of the problem: 
Quote
John put the car into reverse, intending to return to the one-way street and continue in the same direction. But as he backed up, he saw a car coming toward him. He "pressed the gas a little too hard," he said, and the Toyota jumped the opposite curb and popped a tire.

Defense attorney Candelaria said the rear of the car approached a food stand on the sidewalk, and "people went nuts." John pulled away, unaware, he said, that anything was amiss.

Witnesses, however, would later tell police and prosecutors that John was making threats, and when he backed across the curb, his bumper nudged a pole of the food tent, dangerously close to the woman and children operating the stand.

The other article you posted confirms this: 
Quote
Before making good his escape, Larsgard reversed into a store occupied by a woman and a child. Although he did not hit them, witnesses described the incident as threatening and potentially lethal.

Yeah, when you back into an area occupied by children, we take that seriously.

It's a little more than the "won't somebody please think of the children" argument when there's an actual car backing into where actual kids are.  That's literal danger to literal kids.

That's not the "won't somebody please think of the children"-argument I was talking about. Nobody is disputing the fact that he backed up his car towards those children (and the mother). What they disagree about is the distance when he stopped, the speed the car was traveling at, and whether he aimed for them on purpose (why would anyone ever do that? It makes absolutely no sense). What is clear however is that John's testimony is untrustworthy regarding this point because he doesn't want to go to jail, while the witnesses' testimonies are untrustworthy because strong emotions and a mob mentality are involved on their side. This means evidence should be produced, which supposedly did not happen.

Quote
this bit:
Quote
In the interview with Channel 12, John said he never made threats and was not aware he'd almost backed into a food tent until days later when informed of the charges.

Seems to indicate he wasn't using his rear-view mirrors when he "pressed the gas a little too hard" while backing up.

Yup, he's clearly in the wrong here, even if he never was in danger of hurting the family behind the car. I can sympathize though. Being surrounded by angry people in a small town while trying to drive a car could get anyone's heart racing. He still has the burden of responsibility though, and should have stopped instead of driving unsafely. What I don't believe are the witness statements that say he deliberately aimed for the family behind him, yet that is what the court believed.

Quote
Then, after the guy hits him in the face, he panics...

Who wouldn't have? I can't imagine what I would have done at that point. You've got a broken nose and blood all over the dashboard, your mom is sitting by your side and is in a panicked state, and an angry mob is shouting at you outside the car and through the open window, where the guy who landed the punch conveniently stand? It's unlikely you'd be able to pull the window back up, and he had no weapon to attempt to drive them off with. The only viable option was to either get the heck out of dodge or to use the car to attack the crowd with. Which one did he do? Opinions differ. No evidence has been produced for either side, though if he did aim for the people around the car he must be a really horrible driver, for he hit none of them (except the toe of someone who quite likely stood at the car's side when he started driving. That seems most likely to me at least. Yet he was sentenced based on the assumption that he was trying to kill these people. How would they know? If he did shout threats it would be quite obvious, but we have no evidence of that either, nor has anything been presented to make it seem likely. [/quote]

Quote
From my point of view, this guy made a series of serious mistakes, and may or may not have been threatening people verbally at the time.  At a minimum, he's a really shitty driver (and he's been in the U.S. for at least 10 years, so... it's not as if he doesn't know how we drive here).  He's really lucky no one got seriously injured.

I agree with all of that.

Quote
In my opinion, he seems like a guy who has a temper control problem (based on his previous behaviors)

What behaviors would that be?

Quote
I think if Norway needs to point to someone unjustly imprisoned by crazy Americans, this may not be your guy.  I don't think he's blameless here.

Neither do I, but he seems to have been given a way, way, WAY too harsh sentence based on the known facts.

Quote
Also, this:

Quote
"I've been a prosecutor 23 years and a county attorney for two terms in Apache County, and never have I seen such indifference in the truth-finding process," Candelaria said.

...is Larsgard's lawyer.  This is him trying to say the State prosecutor and police have messed up.  He's trying to help Larsgard.  Not sure why TiLT finds that disturbing.

Then let me quote myself from the passage you left out of your quote:
Quote
This quote is the most disturbing part of the article. Should the attorney be considered trustworthy when he says this, or is he just using big words and numbers to build sympathy for the case?

I know he's Larsgard's lawyer, which is why I'm asking if it's reasonable to assume that he's exaggerating, or whether it's likely he's telling the truth. You seem to have answered that question while completely misinterpreting my motivation in asking it. It's disturbing only if he tells the truth, or even mostly the truth. Would this guy really be willing to put his credibility on the line for this particular client however?
3876  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Norwegian about to be sentenced in the US for aggravated assault... or? on: April 27, 2012, 04:40:55 PM

Quote from: Scuzz on April 27, 2012, 04:23:44 PM

What bothers you the most in this case?

The fact that he was arrested charged and sentenced or the fact that they gave him 7 1/2 years for it?

The latter, if I were to choose between those options. But I'm also bothered by what seems to have been a very rushed trial where everything the accused said was dismissed and the crying witnesses were believed completely. According to the Norwegian consul present, there were no attempts to provide evidence or even a motive (why would a guy who's just passing through a town, with his 68-year old mother by his side, suddenly attempt to kill multiple people he has never met before? It makes no sense, and the court didn't make any serious attempts at shedding light on it from what I've heard). Judging by the stuff that has been written about the case, I believe John deserved some kind of punishment. He did after all drive in the wrong direction on a one-way street, and he did end up driving recklessly when he was punched (the witnesses claim he was reckless before being punched as well, but both sides at least agree that he was afterwards). Should he go to jail though? I can't imagine why anyone could find that appropriate if what we've heard are the facts. Either there's some extremely vital information missing, or this guy suffered injustice.
3877  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Norwegian about to be sentenced in the US for aggravated assault... or? on: April 27, 2012, 11:21:14 AM
Here's a much more in-depth and balanced article by an Arizonian news site. It seems to for the most part maintain the things we've already heard, but gives the witnesses a chance to explain themselves. A few choice quotes from the article and my thoughts on them:

Quote
"He floors it toward me," Mendoza said. "I jumped out of the way just barely."

Theda Curley told investigators she was struck by the car as she ran toward a nearby group of children she thought were in danger.
So which one is it? The two witnesses seem to be contradicting each other. More importantly, what's up with the focus on the children? In my (admittedly limited) experience, any time people jump to the "won't someone think of the children" argument, it indicates that they've got a weak case to begin with and are simply trying to use emotions (accompanied by a few tears on the witness stand) to influence the court.

Quote
Those incidents included threats, an alleged stalking of a young girl, an attempted suicide and a run-in with a Los Angeles bicyclist in which John was accused of running over the man's bicycle in a fit of anger. Not all the incidents resulted in charges, and none resulted in a conviction.
John sure manages to make himself unpopular. This is the first time I've heard of the bicycle incident, and it also sounds like the only case where anyone has accused him of anger issues before now. VG has an interview with him today (here's a Google Translate version of the article)where he is asked why he has had so many accusations against him over the years, but he kind of evades the question a bit. He implicates that his history of being bullied at school has made him introverted around strangers, causing them to much more easily react negatively towards him. I find that a bit strange, to be honest.

Quote
"I've been a prosecutor 23 years and a county attorney for two terms in Apache County, and never have I seen such indifference in the truth-finding process," Candelaria said.
This quote is the most disturbing part of the article. Should the attorney be considered trustworthy when he says this, or is he just using big words and numbers to build sympathy for the case?

Quote
Carlyon said that since the verdict, he has received e-mails threatening him and his family, most of them, he believes, from Norway.
I really hope that's not true. If anything, the Breivik case should have taught us to be kinder and more respectful, even with people we don't agree with or outright hate.
3878  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: April 27, 2012, 10:05:34 AM

Quote from: Jag on April 26, 2012, 05:37:06 PM

I remember that scene. Very funny.

And now for something completely different:



LOL, "always going on about climate change" is the best part. smile
3879  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Norwegian about to be sentenced in the US for attempted mass murder... or is it? on: April 26, 2012, 08:03:15 AM
Still nothing new on this case on your side of the pond? There's a lot of anger over this case here in Norway right now, but even now the only newspaper to report anything about it is VG. I found another description of the events in English which probably reads a bit better, but it's still based on the original article.

There has been little in the way of new information. I've seen two people from Winslow talking about the case. One insists that the information we've got is wrong, but later revealed that he hasn't got any facts of his own that can in any way be verified, and he doesn't seem very trustworthy (he also says the broken nose John got was from smashing his face into the steering wheel when he bumped into the curb. This contradicts the information we have from the trial). The other person claims to have caught the guy who punched John in the face attempting to break into his apartment at one point. He claims to have beaten up the guy when that happened. Can't say I find this source trustworthy either.

I also heard that the judge in the trial is up for re-election soon, and that this could have influenced how he treated the situation. I don't know much about how this stuff works (the Norwegian justice system is a bit different), so I can't say what kind of impact this might have.
3880  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: The Hobbit finds a director on: April 25, 2012, 08:37:24 PM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on April 25, 2012, 08:33:50 PM

Quote from: leo8877 on April 25, 2012, 06:34:40 PM

Apparently the Hobbit is using a new 48 fps tech like motionplus and it looks like a soap opera dammit.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_162-57420795-10391698/the-hobbit-sneak-peek-gets-mixed-reaction-from-critics/

Goddamnit...a soap opera in fucking 3D.  How many more ways can they fuck this thing up?   icon_evil

That phrasing begs the question: What on earth else have they been fucking up since you use the word "more"? It must be a LOT to justify that sentence.
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