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121  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: June 08, 2014, 09:23:04 PM
This game is nothing like Infamous though, so that's not really a good comparison when talking about quality. Watch Dogs is far more ambitious in what it's trying to do, while Infamous could focus on perfecting its core gameplay to a much larger degree.
122  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: June 08, 2014, 06:34:50 AM

Quote from: jztemple2 on June 08, 2014, 05:30:01 AM

I'm back from my 23 day road trip. I was following this thread and see that there haven't been any posts in a few days. So, is everyone liking the game, not liking it, having mixed feelings? I'm ready to jump aboard if folks are finding that it is pretty much living up to the hype.

It's Ubisoft: The Game. If you liked the Ubisoft prequels (such as Assassin's Creed 4 and Far Cry 3), you'll enjoy this. The open world Ubisoft games are becoming predictable at this point, so it's easy to determine if they're the games for you.
123  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: June 06, 2014, 06:36:54 PM

Quote from: ATB on June 06, 2014, 04:51:36 PM

Bible says he wasn't particularly anything special in the looks department.

And he was Jewish. So...he looked Jewish.

You're correct about these things, of course. Here's an interesting article about the subject, including an illustration of what the average person in that area at that time might have looked like. Since Jesus was supposed to look pretty average, it's probably the best foundation we have to build upon. Suffice to say, there's not even the slightest resemblance to the classic illustrations modern churches are littered with.
124  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [PC/XB1/ps4] The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt on: June 06, 2014, 06:29:58 PM
The first game is still good though, and the story is amazing. It has what is quite possibly the greatest plot twist in the history of computer games too.
125  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [PC/XB1/ps4] The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt on: June 06, 2014, 05:26:57 PM

Quote from: ATB on June 06, 2014, 05:18:48 PM

Quote from: TiLT on June 06, 2014, 05:02:36 PM

Quote from: ATB on June 06, 2014, 04:49:05 PM

If I have no experience with Witcher, can I just jump on the bandwagon at this game?

Yes, but you should really play both the previous games.

I have no idea how I could possibly make this happen...

In the same way you'd make the third one happen?
126  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [PC/XB1/ps4] The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt on: June 06, 2014, 05:02:36 PM

Quote from: ATB on June 06, 2014, 04:49:05 PM

If I have no experience with Witcher, can I just jump on the bandwagon at this game?

Yes, but you should really play both the previous games.
127  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: June 05, 2014, 08:47:13 PM
He does. That's what makes it awesome. smile
128  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: June 05, 2014, 07:36:32 PM
Somehow I suspect a certain subset of Christians would get cold feet about their religion if a more realistic portrayal of Jesus was used (dark skin, with black and likely curly hair). If he actually looked like that picture above, the Bible would definitely have mentioned it, because he would have been looking completely out of place in that area of the world at the time.
129  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [XB1] Dead Rising 3 on: June 05, 2014, 04:43:25 PM
I'm not really sure it matters much this long after the game's original release. Those who were willing to buy an Xbox One for this game have probably already done so.
130  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [XB1] Dead Rising 3 on: June 05, 2014, 04:30:03 AM
Looks like this game may be coming to Steam in the near future. The Steam databases contain not only a hidden app (ie. unannounced game) with that name, but also contains a banner image and an icon for it.
131  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [PS3] The Last Of Us on: June 04, 2014, 07:11:25 PM
They specifically denied that it's the 13th of June (note that they only mentioned that specific date), but GAME is continuing to hint at a release date next week in not so subtle ways.
132  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Dear Gamespot, Stop Trying to Make Me Care about Your Host Personalities on: June 04, 2014, 03:49:06 PM
It feels like all the biggest gaming sites, such as Gamespot, IGN and GameTrailers, are trying to build up personalities lately. It's working, too. I think people like Kyle Bosman and Danny O'Dwyer are real draws that differentiate the various sites between each other.

The sites realize that they're in a situation where they have little opportunity to present exclusive news. What then are people supposed to visit them for? The answer is: Your favorite personality. That's what they're going for, with varying degrees of success.
133  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Dear Gamespot, Stop Trying to Make Me Care about Your Host Personalities on: June 04, 2014, 02:39:41 PM
But on the other hand they have Danny O'Dwyer, who is possibly the greatest gaming personality around at the moment. That man can do no wrong. Just watch some of his videos if you don't believe me.
134  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [PS3] The Last Of Us on: June 03, 2014, 08:37:49 PM
The GAME stores are really pushing June 13th as the release date for the PS4-version now, going so far as to put the date in flashy letters on actual ads.

Expect the game to get released next Friday. This is looking too deliberate to be a coincidence or mistake.

Edit: AFAIK, GAME is UK-based. That means the US could see the game as early as Tuesday. If GAME is even correct in the first place, that is.
135  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: 2890 Days until launch. Which system are you getting? on: June 03, 2014, 07:01:24 PM
GAME Barnsley (whoever they are) posted an interesting tweet earlier today, saying: "#TheLastOfUs hits #PS4 next week!!" and information on how to preorder. They retracted the tweet later, saying that it was a misprint and an overeager staff member. Take it any way you want, but we could get a "and one last thing: You can buy The Last of Us PS4 right now" during Sony's press conference next week, though it's healthy not to get one's hopes up too much.
136  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: June 03, 2014, 05:28:41 PM
I have to say, the cop chase mechanics (actually, any chases, not just cop chases) in this game are infuriatingly poorly designed. Escaping from the cops is 90% luck and 10% skill. Missions where you're supposed to evade them are mostly about retrying the mission until you get a lucky break. The game keeps spawning police cars ahead of you, the police helicopter is extremely hard to throw off (and the Disable Helicopter skill is absolutely fucking useless), and for every police car you disable, it feels like the cops send two more. Getting away from them requires almost nothing but luck and a straight piece of road. Forget about trying to be clever by parking somewhere and hiding in your car, because the cops are going to be perfectly circling the area you're in, and sooner or later one of them is going to come driving right up to you. Not that you can escape by sitting still anyway.

Once you do manage to be lucky enough to evade them, the ctos scans are just as random and punishing. They appear at random, overlap, and move around at such speeds and in such a chaotic manner that trying to be clever in avoiding them is an exercise in futility. This part of the game would have been okay if the scans were stationary and thus possible to avoid by being a bit clever, but nooo. Get ready to burn Jam Comms, and hope that you'll get lucky.

The results of these mechanics mean that a cop chase could last anywhere from 10 minutes (at which point you're unlikely to ever escape) to 10 seconds, and you don't feel as if you've got any control over which one it is.

I'm annoyed.
137  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: June 03, 2014, 03:36:00 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on June 03, 2014, 03:06:42 PM

Jam comms and black out don't work during these missions?

During online hacking? They both work. Blackout does what you'd expect, hiding the hacker better, while Jam Comms halts the hacker's progress for 10 seconds, giving the target a little more time to find him.

Blackout has the additional advantage of unnerving the target, which can be surprisingly effective.
138  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: June 03, 2014, 02:59:20 PM
Yeah, you have to be wary of cover. It protects you extremely well from being profiled. Make sure you look on every side of any available cover in the area, and move fast and unpredictably. The reason for the latter is because of my previously described method of keeping a multi-sided piece of cover between hacker and target, a tactic I've seen others talk about later. You have to be quick and determined to catch anyone pulling off that trick.
139  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: June 03, 2014, 01:03:49 PM
There may be other reasons why some missions/games come up as unavailable (that trail game is never available for me, for example), but they are always unavailable when another player is in your game, no exceptions. At the very least, you should get nervous when this happens. If in doubt, try to pause or pull off a Focus. You'll probably be too late to stop the worst from happening anyway, but there's a chance you could make life harder for the hacker.
140  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: June 03, 2014, 12:04:02 PM
Nah, even the developers themselves have been sharing similar tricks. Their favorite is to use Focus occasionally. It won't work if there's a player nearby. This is all very much intended behavior.
141  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: June 03, 2014, 09:10:26 AM

Quote from: Harkonis on June 01, 2014, 05:33:53 PM

that's cheating, wish they would prevent those types of things from being a problem.  too late now though, like seeing through the shell game when you pause.

I've discovered another thing about this particular subject now. If you're hacking another player and find him in an entrenched position or suspect that he may be onto you, you can abandon the hacking attempt without suffering any penalty. However, if the target manages to scan you, you'll receive a penalty to notoriety if you abandon the hack. Part of becoming a successful hacker is to evaluate your targets before you even engage them, and then disengage if the situation looks problematic.

The game's multiplayer is clearly built around the concept that a target can get warned of an impending hack before it's properly set up. While someone is in your game, you can't pause, and any attempt to start a mission of any kind results in a message saying "unavailable". I had that happen yesterday, when I was playing the cup game in a park. Once I was done playing, I immediately got the "unavailable" message upon leaving that game. Thanks to that bit of warning, I was able to dive into the nearest cover and scope out the situation, a mere second or two before the incoming hacker was able to spot me. I opened fire on him and forced him to retreat, while I ended up having to deal with people calling the cops on me.

You'll notice that there are almost no dead ends in Watch Dog's city. Almost everywhere you turn, there will be different ways to approach a position. Even if you take up cover, a clever player will (and honestly should, if he knows what he's doing) flank you and/or approach from cover in order to not give away his own position. The warning you get from not being able to pause or access missions will only give you a few seconds to prepare yourself if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, it's already too late.

Some of my most exciting hacking attempts have happened when the target has become aware of my presence almost immediately. That's when the game turns into a true test of skill. A decent player is likely to jump into a fast escape vehicle and speed away as quickly as he can, forcing you to set up your hack in a disadvantageous position or attempt to follow him. If you do the latter, he can easily spot and scan you. Tails are especially interesting this way, and this is where pretending to be an NPC is at its most handy. I've had to slowly drive right past my aware targets several times while hoping that my driving wouldn't stand out, and it always gets my pulse racing because I know he knows that I'm somewhere nearby.

Got the trophies for 10 successful hacks and tails now. smile

The sneakiest SOB I've encountered so far set up his hack on a bridge. I drove there in my car, got out, and searched for him. Checked the top of the bridge first without finding him, then went underneath and still couldn't find him. Turned out the guy was waiting for me to get out of my car, at which point he hid inside it. It's the last place I would have imagined looking, but not any more. I've learned my lesson. Tongue

Speaking of hiding in cars, I recall someone mentioning that it was an almost unfair way to do hacks. Let me assure you, it's not. Not by a long shot. The easiest hackers to take out are the ones who are dumb enough to hide in a car. That's the first place people will look, and when you're discovered, the target has plenty of time to fire his weapon while you desperately try to engage the car's engine to escape. Only once has a hacker managed to win against me by using that tactic (except for the above-mentioned guy who hid in my own car), and that worked only because I managed to stupidly not see the car in the first place.

Another tip: Sometimes a target will use security cameras in order to try and locate you. When this happens, he will be looking down at his cell phone while a line will be drawn between that and the camera he's using. Make sure you use this knowledge to stay out of line of sight of both the target and the camera.
142  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [360]Fable Anniversary on: June 02, 2014, 07:01:26 PM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on June 02, 2014, 06:57:27 PM

I guess porting a remake of a 10 year old game is Microsoft's idea of really getting behind PC gaming, heh.  Maybe they'll actually get Fable 2 onto the PC sometime.   icon_lol

Maybe for Windows 9. This game should cover their token efforts for Windows 8.1, until 9 is just around the corner and Microsoft sends out yet another press release about how they're fully committed to PC gaming. Gotta save another token for when that happens, you know. Tongue
143  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: E3 2014 on: June 02, 2014, 05:18:33 PM
Well, I think Bethesda has already said that we won't be shown the next Fallout for another year or two.

Anyway, I'm going to watch the PS4 conference, but it could hardly have been placed a worse time. I have Monday off, but the conference is at 3 in the middle of the night before Tuesday.
144  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Mortal Kombat X on: June 02, 2014, 03:12:29 PM
Platforms have now been announced to be PS4, PS3, Xbox 360, Xbox One and PC.
145  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Mortal Kombat X on: June 02, 2014, 02:33:23 PM

Quote from: forgeforsaken on June 02, 2014, 02:22:47 PM

Pretty sure that's not ingame.

It's pretty obviously not, not because of the graphics, but because of the animations. They look fake and unresponsive, and nothing like what would work in a fighting game like this. We should probably look at this as some sort of target render, but I sure hope they improve the animations, because the ones in this trailer need a lot of work before they'll look believable.
146  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What are you buying this week? (06/2) on: June 02, 2014, 05:25:11 AM

Quote from: Turtle on June 02, 2014, 05:08:52 AM

Quote from: Lordnine on June 02, 2014, 04:28:17 AM

I just watched a trailer for Murdered: Soul Suspect.  That actually looks really interesting and now I’m eagerly awaiting reviews.  For some reason I had thought it was some kind of JRPG…

OMG, it really does sound like a JRPG name!

Pfft, it's way too clever to be a JRPG title. Those are simply combinations of random words that the Japanese find appealing in the English language, and they rarely make sense. Nobody expects them to be able to pull off a pun as well as make both the pun and the original title make sense.
147  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What are you buying this week? (06/2) on: June 02, 2014, 03:45:14 AM
I would have bought Pixeljunk Shooter Ultimate, but it seems I'll get it as part of PS+, so...
148  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: June 01, 2014, 08:12:56 PM
I've recorded two videos of the game using the PS4 share functionality. The first one shows the hacking attempt I mentioned in the above post, with me having taking up a defensive position, and the hacker turning the tables on me. For anyone wondering what multiplayer hacking looks like, this shows off the victim's side of the equation.

The other video is just a graphical showcase for the PS4 version, recorded during a combination of circumstances that show off the game at its best.
149  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: June 01, 2014, 05:57:32 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on June 01, 2014, 05:33:53 PM

that's cheating

Not at all. It's another layer of tactics once you get further up in the tiers. Anyone who's paying attention will notice that I'm standing still and that I'm in a fortified position. Knowing that, they can turn the tables on me because that gives them ample time and opportunity to perfect their own hack. In fact, another player did do just that with me an hour ago, though I did win in the end. I took up position, but he somehow managed to get to me anyway, and since I was standing still, the only thing he had to worry about during his setup phase was the timer. Normally you'd have to avoid both the other player and the edge of the maximum distance you can get away from him. Both of those tend to force players into triggering their hack earlier than they're comfortable with.

The only players who'll be caught by my traps are those who are unaware that you can learn of an invader's presence before they announce themselves. That is a mistake they won't make twice.
150  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: June 01, 2014, 04:38:15 PM
I'm really starting to take advantage of the fact that the game doesn't pause in the options menu if someone is in your game. Hit Options (on PS4) once in a while, and you'll quickly see if someone is preparing to invade you. Catch them early enough, and you can set up a trap. I've had a good assortment of hackers walk right into a trap before they could even start their hacking process, having to make a hasty retreat while I'm peppering them with bullets or grenades. Most of them get away because players can take a surprising amount of punishment and aiming is hard, but some don't.

The game also seems to send someone against you, either on a hacking or tailing mission, right after you've invaded someone else's game. For that reason I tend to be extra careful once I return from an invasion, trying to avoid open areas while sticking to alleys and other places where I can control the entrances.

I had one guy bail from his hacking attempt before setting it up once he realized I was heavily entrenched in the graveyard. There was no way for him to get to me without getting profiled, and I guess he realized that.
151  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [PC/neXtBox/360/Ps3/Ps4] Wolfenstein:The New Order on: June 01, 2014, 08:24:46 AM
There! I took some time off between Watch Dogs session to finally get the platinum trophy for this game. This was my third platinum for the PS4. smile
152  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: May 31, 2014, 12:01:45 PM
Those NPC backstories are nothing but mild amusement to my own psychopathic antics. Oh, you grew up in poverty, did you? Guess you're used to it then. *hacks bank account*
153  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: May 30, 2014, 07:44:39 PM
I just had an interesting couple of online encounters that showed off the power of emergence in stuff like this. It started with me hacking another player, but apparently he was AFK, because he just stood there and let me hack him. However, he had made some mayhem on that street before I got into his game, so there was a massive steam leak that was causing large amounts of cars to queue up and honk their horns. It was a true traffic jam with perhaps two dozen cars at all. Once my hack was done, I was about to leave the place when I was informed that I was being hacked myself, and that the hacker was hiding in... the traffic jam. Suddenly, a random action done by one player had gone through my game and turned into an advantage a third player was able to use against me. I had to keep running around, checking every car, even if I wasn't sure he was even hiding in a car in the first place. He had nearly succeeded (I think he was at 95% or so) when I finally found him hiding in one of the cars. I failed to catch him because police intervened when I opened fire, but at least I managed to stop him from winning.

You never know how one of these hacker contests will turn out. Their nature varies according to where in the city you are and what's been going on there recently. Hunting down a hacker in a suburban neighborhood is very different from hunting him down in a downtown traffic jam, or in a rural industrial area.

Then some other guy tailed me but got my attention because I was trying to start a mission and couldn't. As I ran around searching for the guy, he triggered a massive blackout of the entire area, making my task even harder. He won in the end, that bastard. Tongue
154  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: May 30, 2014, 01:19:15 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on May 30, 2014, 11:33:01 AM

This is my main problem with Invasion.  It's a form of forced PvP and while I have no qualms about PvP I'd rather do it when I want and not when someone decides to invade my single player experience

If it really was forced, I would have agreed with you. However, the game allows you to easily opt out of the multiplayer. It also doesn't appear that you're simply invaded because someone decides to do so. The game apparently doles out multiplayer sessions along with regular events, which means you are unlikely to be hacked repeatedly in short succession. I think the only time when people may intrude upon your game deliberately is as a revenge act after a failed tailing attempt, at which point they're given the option to head straight into your game to take their vengeance upon you.
155  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: May 30, 2014, 10:45:44 AM

Quote from: Tokek on May 30, 2014, 10:03:52 AM

My first and only try so far in the online hacking had been a disaster.

As soon as I was in the other person's game, I saw him head straight towards my area on a motorcycle and started profiling and promptly found me. I hadn't been able to start the hack yet, nor do any kind of set up. Then I tried to get away and he ran me over, lol.

Maybe I'll try again later.

Bad luck. I had an opponent come running straight for me too, but I pretended to be an NPC, and he didn't profile me. I placed a hack on him myself and went into hiding immediately afterwards.

Your opponent will get no warning that you're in his game until you start to hack him. His only clue may be that the game won't allow him to start any missions while you're there. It's the same way with tailing missions too, except that he'll never even know you were in his supposedly single-player game unless you screw it up. Your target was quite likely as surprised as yourself when he profiled you and realized that you were an actual human being.
156  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: May 30, 2014, 08:18:10 AM
Does anyone know if it's possible to use Disable Helicopter while driving? I'm completely unable to look at the helicopter from my car during a chase, which means I have to get out of my car to disable the heli, and then get back in. Needless to say, that is both pointless and dangerous. There has to be a better way, right?
157  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: May 29, 2014, 07:28:11 PM
I don't think YellowKing was talking about graphics, actually. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he was referring to the experience beyond that. The new generation of consoles (I'd rather not call them next-gen. They're current-gen) can do lots of things with AI, complexity and persistence that Watch Dogs frankly doesn't. Still doesn't prevent it from being fun.

Edit: Bleh, after re-reading the above post, I realize my answer was superfluous. Ignore.
158  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: May 29, 2014, 07:05:43 PM
I believe this is the first time I've had fun with multiplayer in years and years. I think the secret was to make the multiplayer into an optional part of the singleplayer campaign, with quick confrontations that feel meaningful within the greater narrative. This way the online invasions have turned into a mission type in the same way as crimes, gang hideouts, and so on.

Also retried the cover strategy I wrote about earlier, and it really works, as long as you've got an object you can take cover behind from multiple sides. This time I managed to pull it off in an area without any cars nearby at all. A nice tip when you're invading another player is that you don't have to start hacking as soon as you've profiled him. Once you profile him, you can start the hack at any time as far as I can tell, even if the target has left the area. That way he'll have to spend some time reaching you, and you can spend a little time between profiling and hacking to position yourself out of the center of the target circle.

I suspect that this strategy's greatest weakness is cameras. If the target is clever enough to hack into a camera that is behind you, you'll stick out like a sore thumb.
159  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: May 29, 2014, 04:18:50 PM
I just saw my first successful hack, and it was performed by yours truly. The trick of hiding inside a car will only work against the weakest of opponents, and I haven't encountered those yet. Instead, I tried to do something unexpected. I parked my car, then took cover behind it before starting the hack. Predictably, the enemy hacker came running almost straight for the car and looked inside, but he couldn't see anything since I was covering on the other side of it. When he kept searching nearby, I crept from side to side, always keeping the car between me and him, and always staying in cover. He never figured it out, despite being less than 2 meters away from me several times. He even got so desperate after a while that he started unloading his gun towards the various cars parked within the area, but since I was standing outside mine, it obviously didn't do anything. Had he tried to blow it up, things would have been different. By the time the hack finished, the opponent seemed no less confused than he was to begin with. smile
160  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [E3 2012] Watch Dogs on: May 29, 2014, 11:52:19 AM
I've been involved in a number of online 1 vs 1 matches now. It's always been someone trying to hack me, or me trying to hack someone else or tail them. So far I haven't lost a single such match, though not all of them have been real victories either. Most hacking attempts so far have been aborted by me, but the hacker got away. I began to learn, though. Bought myself a grenade launcher just for those situations, and started blowing up suspicious looking cars. I think the last one who tried that got cold feet and ran off behind a corner. When I finally found him at 90% completion (and I was almost about to give up), he was tailing it away on foot. I blew his ass up with a couple of grenades. That was really satisfying.

The one time I tried to hack someone else, I parked neatly along the sidewalk in a way that I hoped wouldn't attract attention, then hid inside the car. The guy ran right past me a number of times, until he, at around 60% completion, stopped right in front of the car. I may have been able to get away with it had I not moved, but my nerves got the better of me, so I started up the car and drove away. He quickly jumped into a car of his own to stop me, but I swerved off the road and ran into the forest, at which point he lost my trail. So at least I got away.

I have the first level of notoriety skills, and I've got a bounty on me. Not that I know what a bounty does though.
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