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161  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Dusty computer is REALLY dusty (need advice) on: February 28, 2012, 09:41:55 PM
Assuming little things like plugged into the correct fan header, of the proper type (4 pin pwm controlled fan needs that type of header to function properly, etc)

Basically, if it was working properly before... it could be that the control chip for the fan itself has become borked, and is forcing on at 100%, all of the time. Which I suppose is better than shutting the fan off.

It could be that your motherboard header is no longer being controlled properly by the motherboard. You could try installing speedfan and trying to manually tune the cpu fan speed...

If you can force it with speedfan, then something weird is up.

Your temps are real good btw. biggrin


ps: basic fan lesson... old 3 wire fans are voltage controlled. it uses 2 wires to supply varying levels of voltage to the fan, to change the speed... the third wire is an rpm monitor. 4 wire pwm fans use pulse width modulation to control the fan speed... 2 wires supply the 12 volts for the fan, third wire is rpm monitor, 4th wire sends the pulses to the fan that control the fan speed. (the fan has smarts inside to interpret x number of pulses per millisec equals y speed, etc etc) Pretty sure in the absence of a pwm signal on the 4th wire, most pwm fans will default to 100% speed. Someone chime in here if they know for sure on this one.
162  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Firefall Invite Thread on: February 28, 2012, 07:55:48 AM
Got it figured out at this point, but no invites available atm. When that changes, we'll start working through the list.

163  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: SSD Drives on: February 28, 2012, 04:56:12 AM
I'll sorta apologize for hi-jacking this thread first, although since the thread wasn't a serious discussion anyways, hopefully this will add something to it smile

Three easy steps to a successful gaming system, in no particular order.

1: Give the damned thing enough memory. 2 gigs doesn't cut it anymore. 4 gigs is ok, 6 gigs is preferable, and 8 gigs is more than enough. If you don't have enough memory and you start swapping, your game will chug. No matter what else you do. I haven't had a swap file in over four years, and believe me I don't miss having one. On the same note: 64 bit OS the next time you upgrade. Just do it, it's not going to be a problem.

2: Storage. Investing in a one to two hundred gig SSD, preferably with either a marvell, intel, sandforce, or samsung controller inside, is one of the best things you can do for your box. The storage access is without a doubt, the slowest performing part of a personal computer. SSD's speed this up considerably. This speeds up things like texture loads for the game. As an example, my gaming/personal system, runs with two intel 160 gig ssd's. (the old x25-m series, with 34nm flash). They were expensive, admittedly. Prices are better now. Even with them being relatively old, the storage system is extremely responsive. I prefer running them in raid-0, where they approximately match the speed of the new, sata III, sandforce drives. Roughly 500 megs a second, and about half that in writes.

PS: You can get two, or four, smaller drives, for roughly the same price. Slap them in raid-0, and watch them go ZOOOOOOOOOOOOM. There is no comparison. Hard drive based systems feel broken once you've experienced this.

PS2: Normally raid-0 can be somewhat unreliable, due to the increased potential for errors. The wear leveling algorythm's on the ssd's, alleviate this somewhat. In the entire time I've been running my raided x25's, I've never had to reinstall them to a raid error. Never, and that's not in approximately two years now. As long as one of your drives doesn't die on you, you're good to go.

3: GPU power. You want to game? Invest in a gaming grade gpu. It doesn't have to be a gtx580, or a radeon 7970. It can be a lesser card. But please be sure the card has at least one gigabyte of memory, and at least 256bit memory access. If it has the last two, it will almost certainly be 'fast enough' in terms of gpu shaders, etc, without specifying that. As a for instance, the GTX 560ti was an _excellent_ gaming card for its generation, even before they changed it up later on. Basically, you're looking at a couple hundred bucks here.

You'll notice I didn't mention the cpu itself. That's because, for the most part, the cpu itself is somewhat irrelevant. There ARE performance differences between the different cpu's, even if the other hardware is the same... but as long as the cpu is relatively modern, the difference won't be world ending. Your money is best spent on the first three things I mentioned, and the cpu (relatively) last.

As an example system, I'll recommend something a local friend just upgraded to when his E8400 setup decided to roll over on him.  (note: friend could have gone with a 2500k, or a 2600k, or a 2600.. any of them would have worked, just went with the 2550k.  (note: any z68 board would have worked. friend and I have history with gigabyte motherboards, and I like the layout on this one. If I'd bought socket 1155 on my last upgrade, it would have been this particular board)  (note: any 8 gig kit would have worked. gigabyte boards seem to always get along with corsair memory, and it's what we've been using for a while now)

He has yet to make the jump to SSD's.. I'm still convincing him. What the SSD gives you is quick booting, which admittedly is once or twice a day usually, and can be ignored by going for coffee. But it also gives you _responsiveness_ when using the computer. It's no longer click-and-wait.. it's click and 'oh, it's ready'. This is where hard drives start to feel broken.

Total cost would be 473$ plus the cost of the gpu which he carried over from his previous system, and the ssd, which in his is still a hard drive.

Point to this excersize, is it does not cost the entire world, to get a good, solid, gaming-grade system, up and running.

My last system (and his, we upgraded at roughly the same time), lasted 4 years. When you spread the cost out over that time frame, it really isn't much.


164  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Dusty computer is REALLY dusty (need advice) on: February 27, 2012, 02:09:09 AM
CPU fan sounds like a freight train, at a guess, because it is motherboard controlled, and the cpu is too hot, so the board is increasing speed to max, trying to cool it down.

Cpu be hot because you have a nice caking of dust insulating the heatsink.

The other fan probably generating noise, will be your power supply, which is almost certainly, internally coated with the same insulating layer of dirt.

And the gpu, just so you didn't think you missed anything biggrin

Step 1: Take case outside after disconnecting cables, and gently, but thoroughly, blow it out with the compressed air you mentioned.

Step 2: Judging from case, do step one twice biggrin

Remember to try and shoot some down through the gpu and psu, and get those blown out as well.

You should notice a massive difference at this point.

Good lord man, the computer gods are giving you the evil stare at this point biggrin

Dust builds up because of lack of filtration in the cases, combined with charged surfaces, even if it isn't much. Charge attracts dust, etc.

Basic solution is to open up the case every few months and give it a thorough cleaning. Your fans will last longer too.

165  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Twitching... on: February 25, 2012, 10:34:12 AM
Basically, if windows isn't smart enough with what it has on disk, you need additional resources when it comes time to install. This basically happens if your motherboard chipset comes out significantly after windows is released. In my case, I can install in the 'standard' mode, but if I try to install to raid mode, I need special drivers.

Annoyingly enough, I downloaded the driver intel tells me I need, but after I reconfigured and tried to reinstall again, it doesn't actually work. Plus the message it's giving me is confusing anyways... it may be some kind of bug/error... we're coming back to it later. For now I'm just running in dual drive mode.

As far as bios goes, the only time you really have a problem with it, is if your motherboard doesnt have a recent enough bios to recognize the cpu you're trying to plug into it. After that it's mostly of interest to tweakers/overclockers. You usually won't need to mess with it.

166  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Firefall Invite Thread on: February 25, 2012, 10:29:49 AM
Got an invite as well. Everything signed and sealed, but the download for the install is not functioning atm. Hunted around looking for how to invite other people, no love with that yet. (and still rebuilding/reinstalling my machine).

I'll update again here asap once I get it figured out.

167  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Motherboard Temps Question! on: February 25, 2012, 07:21:44 AM
60c is a little warmer than I prefer, but my p45 board does get that hot sometimes. I suspect it has bad contact on whichever heatsink it is (it has a long heatpipe going from the southbridge to the northbridge to the power circuitry)

168  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Hard Drive Failure on: February 24, 2012, 10:11:43 AM
Any luck at all, Purge?

169  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Would a wireless network adapter work for gaming on a desktop PC? on: February 24, 2012, 10:10:57 AM
If you go the usb adapter route, do yourself a favor and get yourself something similar to this...

Note that it's a 'usb extension' cable.. also called an 'a-b' cable. Basically, one male, one female connector.
edit: not the same thing. corrected.

Basic idea is, you put your usb adapter on the end of it, and the cable lets you place the adapter optimally for reception, instead of having it stick off the front of your case.

And at something like 4$, it's quite the bargain.

170  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Twitching... on: February 24, 2012, 10:05:38 AM
Ok, all pieces are in, pre-assembled, and temporarily installed.

Win7 totally not capable of installing to raid0 on the intel chipset on this thing by default. Not totally surprised. Irritated because the install utility apparently can't spot the drivers on the gigabyte supplied disk. Or at least it wouldn't for me.

went ahead and installed it in ide/legacy mode for the moment, just to get it up and running. updated the firmware on my ssd's while I was at it. Interestingly enough the firmware update didn't destroy my existing data. sadly, windows was unbootable.

Something to note. The Noctua cooler I linked above... well, you think Misguided's little dinky one is big... heh. This thing could be used as a boat anchor. It's so big it barely, but sufficiently, blocks pci-e slot 1 on the mobo. Fortunately the mobo is smart, and can boot from any of its four slots. It's so big I almost couldn't get the motherboard into the case due to interference with things like the back end of hard drives, fans, inconvenient cabling, etc. Fortunately I powered up in hulk mode and used my gigantic boot^h^h^h^h^h managed to gently manuever it into place without breaking anything.

Basic note to anyone about to build a win7 machine using new hardware.. I knew this and thought I had enough without going to the trouble. BUILD YOURSELF A CDROM with at least the chipset/raid drivers for whatever motherboard you're installing to. Don't trust the vendor supplied disc, as it either might not work, or might be out of date, or both. It will save you a headache.

Got lucky with the motherboard bios. Even though it shipped with the f7 bios, which for those of you who care will look it up on the GB website, it was capable of spotting the 3820 chip, and running enough to load the newest bios from usb stick, which I prepared in advance, hoping I wouldn't need it. Since all new boards ship with at least F7, all new boards are capable of at least booting the 3820 and loading new bios code. This is definitely good, I wasn't looking forward to having to deal with this potential issue.

Oh yeah, that Noctua cooler? That thing is doing its job. Idle temps 27-32c, ambient is somewhere around 23c atm. a few minutes of hyperpi only get it to 50c. we'll pound on it more, later, after permanent installation. May try rotating cooler and see if that clears the first pci-e slot, do some adjustments to the fannage.

If anyone has any questions about anything specific, I'll try to answer.

171  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Hard Drive Failure on: February 22, 2012, 04:34:35 AM
Actually it could very well be an electronics failure. The electronics control the servo's after all... and he mentioned that the bios is no longer picking it up. It might be worthwhile to pickup another drive of that type, and try to swap the electronics, assuming they haven't changed in the meantime.

Either that or just write it off.

172  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Hard Drive Failure on: February 21, 2012, 09:09:17 PM
Hmm... seems like there used to be something like that... lemme poke...

Quick check is revealing recovery iso's, but not anything preloaded with your drivers...

*checks for slipstreaming*

Came up with this, but it's for a windows installer, not a recovery disk.

Better than nothing. A little short on time atm. (off to work in a few)

173  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Hard Drive Failure on: February 21, 2012, 08:22:30 PM

Quote from: Purge on February 21, 2012, 06:17:50 PM

System Restore will track that kind of thing, but since my D drive is missing entirely, it doesn't help much.

I can't say much for the Windows 7 Backup - I've yet to have an opportunity for it to work. crybaby. Perhaps AtomicKid has a suggestion.

Sadly, once they go, they're usually gone. You can try the freezer trick, but that only works for certain types of errors. Clicking and giving up does give one a little hope that it might be the right type of error though.

For the record, I'm fond of the 'usb flash drive in a medicine bottle' backup for critical stuff. The drives are super cheap anymore, and when tucked in a desk drawer, in a sealed medicine/etc bottle/enclosure, will easily last the years until bitrot starts to set in. Since your flash drive would be part of an active backup system, this isn't a concern. (I would get two drives, of enough size to backup whatever you're hoping to backup each month. Delete and re-write the first drive  one month, and then the second drive the second, or somesuch. You get the idea)

174  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Quiet but Deadly (PC build) on: February 20, 2012, 10:01:17 PM
You people and your stickers...

I guess at least they don't light up the room when you're trying to sleep.

Good thinking about heatpipe orientation when fitting it together. Did anyone know that proper orientation of heatpipes to take advantage of gravity can make as rather noticeable difference in temps? As much as 15c from personal testing. The idea is to make what little liquid is in the pipe, pool at the source of heat, which increases the efficiency. They still work without it, just not as well.

The sad thing is, due to this, the standard atx tower is generally the worst of both worlds for cooling the cpu/gpu. The cpu is on its side, so at best, most heatsinks can mount the pipes parallel to surface the case rests on, which runs it across the surface of the cpu, with a sort of neutral effect in terms of gravity vs the distilled water inside. Which is better than it pooling at the ends, but only a bit.

The gpu hangs upside down, so any heatpipes in those pretty much depend on wicking action inside to do their job.

This is why you see some atx cases with the motherboard inverted... in order to mount the gpu's right-side up, so that gravity helps with the thermal action. for anyone interested. Remember it's a wiki, so grain of salt, but it is a start.

175  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: How do you determine bottlenecks in your system? on: February 20, 2012, 04:17:45 AM
The tools are of course, the individual benchmarks for different games, futuremark, etc.

One good way to check on your cpu/gpu, is to UNDERCLOCK your cpu, and see how much, if any, your gpu performance degrades. (underclocking being much safer than overclocking, naturally)

if you downclock your cpu and performance doesn't come down, it means you need more gpu power. If you downclock your cpu and your gpu drops a tiny bit, you're pretty closely matched, assuming you underclock your cpu by a tiny bit to check.

And of course, if it drops the gpu performance by a lot, it means you need more cpu horsepower.

Gentle overclocking in the other direction will confirm what you need, if you feel up to it.

There will of course be some slight variational tendencies, in the direction you change the clock on your cpu. Aka if you speed up your cpu by 10%, you might get +1% from your gpu anyways, even if you're already 'maxed out' on the gpu. Think of the two performance curves in comparison to one another. Once you're past the 'sweet spot' of cpu/gpu ratio, you'll still get some increase, but it will be a case of declining returns.

176  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Twitching... on: February 18, 2012, 11:34:50 PM
If they hadn't come out with the 3820 chip, I would almost certainly have gone a different direction. The 3930K and the 3960X are just too expensive, and who the heck really needs 6/12 cores (hyperthreading, yo!) for a desktop/gaming system anyways? (I do HOPE this one comes back to haunt me biggrin)

Also up for consideration were the i5/2550k, the i7/2600k, and/or the 2700k, which is really a little too expensive. I passed on the 2550k because it's slightly more expensive than the 2500k, combined with the 'only' 6mb of onboard caching. And I passed on the 1155 in general because I dislike the intel onboard graphics, and I didn't feel like paying for a part I would almost certainly never use. Someone remember to nyahnyah me when my gpu goes out and I can't use my computer the next time it happens smile

In the end it was a combination of reasonable pricing, (though not the cheapest), lack of features I didn't want/need, and the presence of features I DID want/need (the extra pci-e lanes from the cpu, and the much larger L2 cache memory).

Way I figure it, if I get 4 years out of the upgrade, I did pretty good. That's actually twice the current planned longevity of parts in the system. (I'm supposed to be upgrading every other year for components. mobo/cpu/ram one year, then gpu the next. Needs adjustment to include storage upgrades, but those tend to either last longer, or not be as expensive, or both, so I tend to slip them in on the side)

177  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Twitching... on: February 18, 2012, 12:42:03 PM

* TheAtomicKid stares carefully at the mailbox, patiently awaiting his prey, still several days journey away.

It has been four years, less one month, since my last system upgrade. Four very, very, very long, years. I do believe I can afford to come up with a few bucks at this point, even if it feels like misbehavior at the moment.

It has been over TWO years, since my last gpu upgrade. I tried to upgrade last March with a gigabyte-built GTX 560 super overclock unit, but wasn't satisfied with the build quality. (felt a little flimsy, and one of the fans ticked quite badly once the rpm's ramped up over 50% or so). Still using the previous card, which is another gigabyte-built super overclock unit... a gtx-260, which is still going strong.

So... we rebuild the heart, and see what that does to gpu performance with the gtx 260.. I suspect it will go up somewhat... this Q6600 based setup has always felt like it was a tad too slow to really make the card earn its lunch money, and overclocking the system does in fact get some minor returns, but the chip runs a little warm for comfort. (not in the least helped by my semi-passive setup in this box... case fans only, no other fans in the box barring the video card). Later this year I'll probably look at gpu replacement.

Thought about just upgrading the gpu one more time... but see previous comments about the cpu feeling a little slow. Not much point in spending that much money on a fancy new gpu, only to have it (mostly) idle because the cpu can't stress it.

Considered going with a standard sandy bridge / z68 setup, but wanted the extra pci-e lanes. I have a feeling, the new box will end up with at LEAST two gpu's in it, before everything is said and done. We'll see what that shape of the universe looks like when we get there.

For those who need a current comparison, my card is perhaps a tad bit faster than a radeon 5770, due to the overclock. However, it maxes out at directx 10.1, and tbh, it does directx 10.anything poorly. directx 9 does fine though. Just not at insane framerates smile

Atomic <-- whom loves his bells and whistles turned on in games, and has been going without, a little more each new game, for just a little too long. IT IS TIME TO TAKE BACK WHAT IS OURS.

PS: The Q6600 is currently angling to find a home in a dedicated HTPC setup. The semi-passive build works very nicely without generating a ton of noise.

178  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Quiet but Deadly (PC build) on: February 18, 2012, 12:13:10 PM

Quote from: Misguided on February 17, 2012, 01:58:28 AM

My intended budget was $2000, and I ended up spending just under $1800. While I didn't start out to build a quiet machine, I realized along the way that I had been choosing components with that quality. Notice I didn't say "silent". Silent computing is a whole different animal, and people building truly silent PCs are willing to sacrifice horsepower to conserve decibels. My hope is once this beast is finished, is that it will have plenty of muscle but with a refined manner as far as noise is concerned.

There's also the fact that all your friends would be referring to your new baby as an SBD/Silent But Deadly, which quite frankly I don't blame you for not going there biggrin

179  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Firefall Invite Thread on: February 08, 2012, 07:12:43 AM

*looks hopeful*

180  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Disk Boot Failure on Win7 on: February 01, 2012, 06:21:02 AM
Please give us the details on any and all hard drives and optical drives (mostly interested in sata vs pata vs other here)

181  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Wireless Router Reliability? on: January 23, 2012, 02:45:46 AM

Who's yo daddy? biggrin

182  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: PC appears to be on last leg on: January 18, 2012, 04:48:21 AM
Testing beta software on a suspect machine is Bad Mojo (tm) biggrin

183  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: PC appears to be on last leg on: January 16, 2012, 11:06:20 PM
Always, always, test the ram first. As was mentioned, most linux livecd's have a copy of memtest, but if you dont want to go that far...


(after that, borrow a psu from a working comp, and test with that) (especially if you get anything other than memory errors while testing...reboots, blinkenlights, etc)
184  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: DNS / Internet connection help needed on: January 14, 2012, 10:26:40 PM
What's the hardware config for the Win64 machine?

Check for driver updates.

You know, I occasionally get this as well, and I reset my dns to use the open google servers long ago.

So far every time I've attributed it to a noticeable problem with my DSL connection, usually just a temporary down. As an example, the PPP server seemed to go offline for a while the other night. Everything else was working, but no PPP connection, and no internet ip address, thus no Internetz (tm) smile

BUT. I used to have more troubles with it, and thus long ago swapped to using googles servers, and it made the problems shrink quite a bit. I attributed it to a weak DNS setup via AT&T at the time... (att runs a dns server which feeds all the modems, the modems feed any home routers installed, etc, in theory. The conclusion I came to at the time was the modem wasn't always picking up the dns properly and propogating it to the router)

For the record my box is running a realtek onboard nic, with the latest drivers at the time I updated them, which was some time ago.

Do you have other Win64 boxes on your network, or is this the only one?

185  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Power Supply Causing CPU Temp? on: December 12, 2011, 03:35:51 AM

Quote from: Scraper on November 29, 2011, 01:08:37 AM

It's not the Power Supply fan. I tested this. It's the actual CPU fan.

When I got home today I swapped in the 750watt PS I have into the new PC and the problem was solved. I definately think it was the PS causing the overheating. So there's no way I'm putting the old PS back in this system, I don't want to risk blowing the CPU. So it's off to Newegg.

Ok, the 'Egg has had time to come through. What did you buy, and did it properly solve your problem? biggrin

186  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced on: December 06, 2011, 04:54:37 AM
Technically I could have kept my client, but decided to clear the road just in case. One more download won't kill me, but missing the startup due to having to re-download a client will annoy the crap out of me.

187  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Need help buying new PC on: December 06, 2011, 01:54:48 AM
My initial assessment of the systems overlooked the presence of ssd boot drives on both systems. Albeit it's a 64gig drive, but it alleviates the 'boot to raid-0 concept I was operating on for the first system)

I prefer the 5870 gpu to the dual 6790's.
As you can see, the 6790 isn't the greatest gaming gpu, even if you have two of them in the case. The 5870 still really holds its own.

For CPU the win goes to the first system. the 2600k/p67 is really strong... but coming from a gaming viewpoint, the 860 is plenty strong enough, and that punts it back to the GPU.

For ram, the win goes to the first system. I do wish the second system was 8 gigs of ram instead of 6, but 6 is enough.

I still hate the case on the second system smile

In the end, I'd still prefer the second system to the first. I dislike the crossfired 6790's. They're not going to be that fast, and it's also listing a 500watt psu. Which is probably enough if it's a quality unit with all of that running, but it'll be somewhat borderline. The second system doesn't appear to list gpu at all, which is also not reassuring.

PS: Looked around some more on the sight. This looked interesting.

It's still more ram than you 'need', and I could wish it was a 2GB 6950, but for the most part, it's the best of both worlds. And the price is right in the middle. And the case isn't horrid smile

188  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Home Networking Question on: December 02, 2011, 04:29:49 AM
* TheAtomicKid is currently pondering the differences between G and N...

189  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Power Supply Causing CPU Temp? on: November 30, 2011, 09:19:11 PM

My favorite stop for power supply reviews. He might have tested yours in the past.

Basically, if it's a quality unit, you'll be fine. I can run my current rig on my seasonic 380 watt unit, as an example, though I don't because I have to finagle the pci-e (it only has one 6 pin cable)

(q6600, p45 mobo, 8 gigs ram in four dimms, and a gtx 260 gpu)

And it absolutely handled it with the previous gpu (an 8800gts/320 built by evga, overclocked of course), without even blinking.


PS: Part of the problem is that, because the psu directly feeds modern video cards via the pci-e cables with no filtering except what's available on the cards (which is slim or none in a lot of cases, though some newer ones are including more), modern gpu's are extremely sensitive to crappy power conditions. If your psu is crap, you get things like artifacting, gpu resets, and more. In fact, it pretty much looks exactly like your gpu is failing, except it isn't. It's the power supply.
190  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Power Supply Causing CPU Temp? on: November 29, 2011, 10:11:19 PM

Quote from: Calavera on November 29, 2011, 01:16:26 PM

With the GTS 460, a 550W power supply is at the minimum required. Because the power supply has to work really hard, it generates more heat. If your case is laid out like most, the power supply fan blows right onto the CPU. I'm kinda surprised the only problem you had was heat and not stability...

That's the because they massively overspec what's required due to people buying crappy parts for cheap. The gpu has a TDP (thermal design power) of 160 watts for the 1gig variant. The rest of the system is adding up to 220 watts, unless he has a crapload of hard drives that he didn't bother to mention, or something attached that draw a lot of power from the psu, like a sound card with a built-in amplifier. (130 watts for the cpu, I'm allowing 40 watts for the mobo itself, since tdp numbers are hard to come by for chipsets, 10 watts per dimm of ram, 10 watts for a hard drive, 10 watts for an optical)

Right now, from what was listed, plus an estimated average system for what is NOT listed, he's only showing 380 watts at full load. His psu shouldn't be overloaded or even stressed.

And that's at theoretical maximum load. Ever burned an optical disk while running furmark and prime95 and/or cpuburn at the same time that you defrag your hard drive? biggrin


PS: Old ATX spec had psu's as an intake fan. Any modern supply is up to date, and is an exhaust fan 100%.
191  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced on: November 28, 2011, 10:30:33 PM

Quote from: Asharak on November 28, 2011, 10:00:13 PM

Quote from: RLMullen on November 28, 2011, 09:42:58 PM

Are you approaching this game as a Bioware RPG with MMO conventions tacked on, or as a traditional MMO with Bioware RPG conventions tacked on?

I've never for a second expected that SWTOR would be anything OTHER than a traditional MMO.  The addition of dialog choices, companions, strong story, and voice acting are the pieces where Bioware is attempting to make their small changes to the existing formula.

This was my immediate thought and response to rittchard's post, as well. Sure, I'd like a game where the emphases were reversed but I never expected this to be that game and I'm not disappointed that it isn't.

- Ash

As a point of conversation on all of this... in my opinion, an rpg approach, with mmo conventions tacked on, and you get... Guild Wars. Which is of course good in its own way.

192  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Power Supply Causing CPU Temp? on: November 28, 2011, 09:57:01 PM
Faulty psu could be putting out too much voltage on the 12v rail, which is what all modern cpu's feed off of. More than a little bit would fry the cpu though.

Conclusion. Plausible, if unlikely.

The fact that the problem moved with the psu indicates the psu IS at fault, but whether it's overvolting, or has a crappy fan and causing the case to not ventilate properly or some other somesuch issue, doesn't really matter.

Get it tested if you want to follow up, but a supply that small is so cheap that the testing will cost you more than it's worth, unless you have free access to a tester somehow.

193  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Home Networking Question on: November 28, 2011, 03:19:47 AM
1: Yes, but if you have crappy signal from Comcast, the splitter may be enough to do your connection in. Fortunately, they're cheap. The cheaper, the noisier, generally smile

2: See 1. If you have good signal already, you'll be fine. If your signal is marginal, the splitter will make itself known. You'll get weak signal levels at the cmodem, and snow/artifacting on the cable tv.

3: No, Maybe, and No. The wireless portion of the router might pick up interference if it's near other electronics. Electronics are generally designed NOT to do this, but nothing is perfect.

4: Ask your local buddy/ tv installer... they'll generally recoil and tell you no don't do that, but if pressed they might divulge a product that is less crappy than the others. Google might also help.

(5) Q:Is Wireless N good for penetrating walls? A: Not as good as Wireless G. G is slower, but it penetrates better. If your N performance/signal levels are crappy, try getting a G receiver, assuming your router can transceive on G, and give that a shot. Sometimes you get better throughput with G, due to too much interference with N, even though N is faster. This might clear up or reduce your dead zone. Check router specs etc before purchasing anything.


194  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced on: November 23, 2011, 09:22:18 PM
For those of you still having problems getting logged in and patched, if you haven't seen it already on the testing forums.

Bioware/EA has enhanced their security. You MUST setup security questions and answers, via your account at, before you can login via the patcher. Before you do that it will give you various errors including 'this account is logging in from a location that is not blah blah blah'. It flashes at the top of the patcher very quickly, and then disappears.

Basically, login to account, setup security questions, and you should be good to go.

Assuming you haven't caused the automated defenses to vaporize your account in the meantime (frozen account).

I'm assuming it will tell you if the account is frozen, if you login to and check it.


PS: Once you do all this and get logged in, it of course flashes a nice message at you that you need to login to your swtor account and setup the security questions, etc etc. Nice placement, eh? smile
195  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: Replacing a dying Radeon 5870...or maybe just the GPU cooler? on: November 14, 2011, 06:06:35 AM
* TheAtomicKid chalks up another one for the good guys...

196  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced on: November 14, 2011, 06:02:24 AM

Quote from: Blackjack on November 13, 2011, 01:50:36 PM

If you got the e-mail I did, it says "Additional details for this upcoming test will be announced soon." and "As part of this test, we will be partnering with games industry sites to distribute additional beta codes as necessary. This will help ensure we meet our population goals, so we can effectively stress test our servers in preparation for launch." [This is not what's happening this weekend, and my guess is it won't happen until early December -- this weekend is NOT the last weekend beta test afik]

It does not provide any information on downloading a client yet. I'm assuming you're clever and just used the same link used for previous test clients. I'm not going to try, given that the beta clients have been different each weekend and whatever's up this weekend presumably won't be the stress test client. At least I hope it's not the same.   icon_neutral

If you got an e-mail (maybe an additional one?) that said "click here to download the client and play this weekend," then you got a different e-mail than most of the rest of us are referring to, so we're talking about different things.

If you're playing this weekend and you're not supposed to, then Bioware has a big gaping "hole" in their testing system, which wouldn't surprise me given some of their klutziness on certain things and all the misunderstandings going around (such as the pre-order page for months saying mistakenly that we'd need to have Origin installed to d/l the release client).

If you got in, have fun, and give as much useful, "action-able" feedback as you can.  icon_smile They're a few weeks from release, so the chances they can re-do the entire combat system or otherwise make the game less "WoW with light sabers and blasters" are pretty slim.  smirk
btw, Fileplanet is also giving out stress test (i.e., for later) keys. So if you haven't heard yet from Bioware about getting into the upcoming stress test, you might check Fileplanet's web site.

It was the first paragraph. Never received a followup email with details. Since I've not beta'd before, I had no previous links to use, I went to the swtor site, and dug through faq's and details til I found the link to the test sight. Login worked there, nabbed the download/patcher, and went from there.

No idea if I was _supposed_ to test this weekend, but it let me. Feel warm & fuzzy in the knowledge that I submitted lots of feedback smile

I'm under the impression this weekend is/was the stress test, both from what I've read on forums, and... well, the servers were all redlined. all of them. Not so much Sunday morning, but that evening, after I got home from work, it was the digital version of 'dropping the hammer on it'.

We shall see what we shall see. What I saw was pretty good. I love the voice acted quests. It's ton's better than rightclik npc, popup wall of text that doesn't get read, move to next npc. The text is there if you miss something in the conversations, but it's FAR more interactive.

Is it WoW with blasters and lightsticks? Sure, a little bit. You won't really be able to get away from that, at least not and still be an MMO. But it's good. And it's $*(&*(&!!! Star Wars! biggrin

I really really wish I'd gotten my invite earlier so I could have tested Saturday morning as well frown

Do you like MMO's? Do you love Star Wars? You'll be fine smile

197  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced on: November 12, 2011, 08:53:41 PM

Quote from: Gryndyl on November 12, 2011, 02:41:51 PM

The invites that went out friday are NOT for this weekend's test. They're for an upcoming one.

That's interesting, since my login is enabled on the server and I'm patching.

198  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic announced on: November 12, 2011, 08:58:57 AM
It would have been nice if they had emailed me my invitation before 12:30 pm Friday. Woke up, checked my email at 2:30, got the email, and the swtor site was down for maintenance, so I couldn't download the patcher, had to go to work.

Someone tell me why it should be worth my time to download 20 gigs so that I can test for just a few hours tomorrow evening. Since this is theoretically the last beta weekend and all.
* TheAtomicKid growls unhappily.

edit: that's assuming I can get it downloaded. My connection does about a gig an hour. started at midnight, 11/12

199  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Mechwarrior Online - reserve your name on: November 02, 2011, 04:24:46 AM
Did reserve my old callsign, Sorceror, after spotting the news blurb. Thanks for the headsup, and 'we'll be seeing you guys real soon now biggrin'

200  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / Re: anyone crossfire / sli? on: October 29, 2011, 10:49:37 AM
Thankyou for the link, Ceekay, that's quite the interesting read. Got me thinking about my next set of upgrades, which I'd already been thinking about lately.

Sandy Bridge E coming soon. AMD gpu's coming soon. Decisions, decisions.


PS: It would seem the trick to avoiding microstuttering, is to make sure your settings keep your minimum framerate as far north of 30fps as you can stand, visually. Since 30fps seems to be the zone where it becomes noticeable enough to be a problem. The bigger your cards, the higher those settings can be, naturally.
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