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121  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Batman : Arkham Asylum on: September 20, 2009, 06:30:17 PM
I'll repost this just for Hardy and SL (you do have the upgrade to use Batarang in combat combo, right?)
Oh, and YGPM.

Quote from: RuperT on September 09, 2009, 06:44:55 AM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on September 09, 2009, 04:24:28 AM

Spent my entire play time with this game trying to get 3 bats on the first challenge and finally did it. The 5k Super Dark Night (or whatever) bonus put me over the top. W00t.
I just returned this spectacular game to Blockbuster today.  I'd hoped to 3-bat all the combat challenges, but gave up after getting the Silver combat achievement.  As you say, I'd spend hours just trying to finish each one which at the upper levels seemed to involve a good run of luck, like trying to flip heads 10 times in a row, with loadtime and a soon-annoying announcement between each try (compounded with the frustration of Bats spontaneously whiffing on an attack, or going for that long rotation spin-kick, or getting a collateral hit on an attacker I've just hit Y to counter, or.... yeah).
I recommend you don't get too obsessed with the perfect Freeflow and Health bonuses.  Once you get into the more extreme combat challenges, you will have a VERY hard time achieving this  perfection (I think I only managed to even survive a couple of the Extremes).  Instead, a good habit is to go for the Variation bonus every time you start a combo (a 3500 bonus is fairly easy to achieve each round, and I think it tops out at 5000 if you use every move in a single combo - which also gives an achievement the first time).  The tricky part to that is getting a good batclaw (you can use it as a round opener oftentimes), and getting a groundsmash before the last guy (who you will instead always take out with a critical unless he's already on the ground when you eliminate his pals).   Just remember to toss batarangs, throw in a stun even if there aren't any knife-wielders, etc. and you will achieve 3-bat very easily on your earlier challenges.
Also, notice which attacks give extra points and how much.  For example, throwing or kicking a thug over a railing nets extra points, and groundsmash will give you 100XComboMult, which is 1000 points even if you're just on 10X which is nearly trivial.  Use your unblockable as soon as you get it; a critical is a waste there.
Damn good game, but I'm glad I rented it as I don't see much replay value (unless I ran through again to kick get the Party Pooper achievement, at which you only get one shot).  I suppose I could've spent another week or seven maybe getting the Gold combat Ach., but that seemed just too frustrating as my LIVE ID doesn't rhyme with USMP Schmaeto.
122  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Exoskeletons? Bah. on: September 10, 2009, 02:07:17 AM
"Whoa."
123  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Batman : Arkham Asylum on: September 09, 2009, 06:44:55 AM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on September 09, 2009, 04:24:28 AM

Spent my entire play time with this game trying to get 3 bats on the first challenge and finally did it. The 5k Super Dark Night (or whatever) bonus put me over the top. W00t.
I just returned this spectacular game to Blockbuster today.  I'd hoped to 3-bat all the combat challenges, but gave up after getting the Silver combat achievement.  As you say, I'd spend hours just trying to finish each one which at the upper levels seemed to involve a good run of luck, like trying to flip heads 10 times in a row, with loadtime and a soon-annoying announcement between each try (compounded with the frustration of Bats spontaneously whiffing on an attack, or going for that long rotation spin-kick, or getting a collateral hit on an attacker I've just hit Y to counter, or.... yeah).
I recommend you don't get too obsessed with the perfect Freeflow and Health bonuses.  Once you get into the more extreme combat challenges, you will have a VERY hard time achieving this  perfection (I think I only managed to even survive a couple of the Extremes).  Instead, a good habit is to go for the Variation bonus every time you start a combo (a 3500 bonus is fairly easy to achieve each round, and I think it tops out at 5000 if you use every move in a single combo - which also gives an achievement the first time).  The tricky part to that is getting a good batclaw (you can use it as a round opener oftentimes), and getting a groundsmash before the last guy (who you will instead always take out with a critical unless he's already on the ground when you eliminate his pals).   Just remember to toss batarangs, throw in a stun even if there aren't any knife-wielders, etc. and you will achieve 3-bat very easily on your earlier challenges.
Also, notice which attacks give extra points and how much.  For example, throwing or kicking a thug over a railing nets extra points, and groundsmash will give you 100XComboMult, which is 1000 points even if you're just on 10X which is nearly trivial.  Use your unblockable as soon as you get it; a critical is a waste there.
Damn good game, but I'm glad I rented it as I don't see much replay value (unless I ran through again to kick get the Party Pooper achievement, at which you only get one shot).  I suppose I could've spent another week or seven maybe getting the Gold combat Ach., but that seemed just too frustrating as my LIVE ID doesn't rhyme with USMP Schmaeto.
124  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: GTA IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony on: September 02, 2009, 05:43:52 PM
I'm in for sure.  I really liked TLAD, more than plain GTAIV even;  it had a better story, better missions, better characterization.
I hope there is more DLC.  I think they could do a lot more with Liberty City; it's a plenty big sandbox, just put some more toys in there.  Drop me in there as a costumed vigilante.  Give me a good cop story; either SWAT or vice would be fine (hell, random Most Wanted missions would be cool).
More!
125  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Band names... on: August 30, 2009, 03:48:59 AM
War House
Red Flank
Low Horse
126  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Looking for a new fantasy novel/series on: August 24, 2009, 10:20:14 PM

Quote from: Gratch on August 24, 2009, 01:26:35 PM

100 pages into The Name of the Wind.  Damn, this is a good read.
Hey, whoa now!  I was requesting this book from the library, and I saw 'Book 1 Kingkiller chronicle'.  I have a geis against starting unfinished series (I was fooled into reading the Song of Fire and Ice 'trilogy'...).  I'll keep an eye on it (I've got about 20 book thread Favorites between here and OO).
One of my absolute favorites is The Warlord Chronicles.  It is very low fantasy, but I really dug it (much more than his later Grail Quest series, FWIW).
I noticed Glen Cook's Black Company tales have been released in a trade paperback omnibus; those are generally well-considered as a pragmatic alternative to Erikson.
I agree with others who were disappointed by Perdido Street;  too much setting and not enough plot for my tastes, buy YMMV.
Zelazny's more modern fantasy Chronicles of Amber is a long-time favorite.  If contemporary is cool, that or American Gods might be of interest.
If you found Wolfe too loquacious, I hesitate to recommend Jack Vance, but his Dying Earth series influenced us nerds more than we might realize, and I relish any of his works for their wordsmithing.  Steven Brust reminds me of Vance in some ways, but might be more accessible. 
 
127  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: police caption on: August 12, 2009, 07:07:03 PM
"No fingerless gloves?  I'm going to have to see some I.D."
128  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Birthers? on: July 30, 2009, 07:37:59 AM

Quote from: Exodor on July 29, 2009, 11:06:49 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on July 28, 2009, 07:30:15 PM

If anyone wants to know why Ron was reluctant to open up the pandora's box of a political/religious subforum, look no further than this thread. yeesh.

I don't think the subforum is the problem so much as one particular poster.



Psst!  I think he owns the joint...
 slywink
129  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [360] Red Faction: Guerrilla Impressions on: July 02, 2009, 07:02:12 PM
I'd like to try multiplayer, too (still slogging through SP on Hard).  I'm an East coast late-nighter, usually.
130  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Jason Bourne is a Pussy! (Taken) on: June 26, 2009, 09:18:39 AM
I watched it late last night, but it wasn't quite as good as I was hoping.  I always like Liam "Take the fuckin' elephant!" Neeson, but I was surprised to see Jon Gries wasted.  I was actually expecting his old buddies to play a larger part than they did.
My big sticking point was this meticulous professional who would track his quarry deliberately and efficiently, and then just careen into a confrontation with what appeared to be little to no forethought or discretion.  One can blame his impatience on the high personal stake easily enough, but I thought it was at great odds with the clockwork character the film constructed for us.
In the end: decent enough revenge porn.
131  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Thanks for taking it seriously Fox News on: June 20, 2009, 06:40:30 PM
Huh?  If that little 2 minute bit elicits any kind of negative reaction, one should re-evaluate one's current dosages.
132  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Gingrich: "Obama's already failed." on: June 11, 2009, 10:53:29 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on June 11, 2009, 04:08:07 PM

The justification was that the agency could recoup more revenue by using computers to dispute millions of low-income tax returns than by using the judgment of skilled professionals to investigate wealthy individuals with the means, motive, and opportunity to avoid paying their fair share.
Did it work?
133  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Was it worth it? (GM bankruptcy) on: June 05, 2009, 07:25:48 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on June 05, 2009, 12:18:55 PM

Quote from: RuperT on June 05, 2009, 08:32:59 AM

Quote from: Blackadar on June 04, 2009, 04:26:01 PM

Quote from: Moliere on June 04, 2009, 04:12:12 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on June 04, 2009, 03:53:40 PM

Show me the government mandate.  I'll wait.

What do you think emissions and mileage standards are for besides to mandate the size and type of car we can drive?

You have the right to drive any kind of car you want.  However, if your excessive car emissions help warm the planet which causes sea levels to rise and floods my house, should you still have the right to drive your gas-guzzler?  Or if it belches out a lot of emissions that causes the area to have high and unhealthy Ozone levels, should you still have the right to drive your gas-guzzler?

In a libertarian utopia, when do your actions get curtailed because they cause me harm?
For starters, I'd say when you can accurately quantify those actions and the harm done.  Let's say my SUV gets 15 mpg and my neighbor's car gets 30 mpg.  Who will do more harm over the next year?
I'm actually not opposed to efficiency and emission standards, but I'm not sure they address the problem effectively.  It's sort of like mandating how hard you can hit your wife.


So, to make sure I understand your point, I'd have to show direct, quantifiable harm?
Yes.  The action you want to curtail is not really "drive a low efficiency car", it's "produce harmful emissions", right?  In my example above; if my neighbor drives 4 times as far in a year, who's doing the most harm?
My point: curtail the appropriate action.
134  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Was it worth it? (GM bankruptcy) on: June 05, 2009, 08:32:59 AM

Quote from: Blackadar on June 04, 2009, 04:26:01 PM

Quote from: Moliere on June 04, 2009, 04:12:12 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on June 04, 2009, 03:53:40 PM

Show me the government mandate.  I'll wait.

What do you think emissions and mileage standards are for besides to mandate the size and type of car we can drive?

You have the right to drive any kind of car you want.  However, if your excessive car emissions help warm the planet which causes sea levels to rise and floods my house, should you still have the right to drive your gas-guzzler?  Or if it belches out a lot of emissions that causes the area to have high and unhealthy Ozone levels, should you still have the right to drive your gas-guzzler?

In a libertarian utopia, when do your actions get curtailed because they cause me harm?
For starters, I'd say when you can accurately quantify those actions and the harm done.  Let's say my SUV gets 15 mpg and my neighbor's car gets 30 mpg.  Who will do more harm over the next year?
I'm actually not opposed to efficiency and emission standards, but I'm not sure they address the problem effectively.  It's sort of like mandating how hard you can hit your wife.
135  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Best post-apocalyptic novels? on: May 18, 2009, 10:59:29 PM
Alas, Babylon
136  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Battlefield-like games, but slower on: April 30, 2009, 07:32:40 PM
America's Army does sound like a good fit (based on my play, wow, 8 years ago?!).
Have you tried the BF2 mod Project Reality?  It's not One Life To Live, but the pace is much more strategic.
I also often enjoy a slower paced FPS; sadly I think we're a real minority.  Auto regen health FTL.
137  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Apparently 4 months is the breaking point for Gov. Rick Perry... on: April 15, 2009, 07:38:48 PM

Quote from: Brendan on April 15, 2009, 03:40:08 PM

Quote from: Fireball1244 on April 15, 2009, 02:36:02 PM

Take these idiotic "tea parties" protesting the "crushing" tax burden on American taxpayers. They're full of anti-Obama rhetoric, but Obama didn't set the current tax rates and, in fact, his proposed budget doesn't raise taxes on 98% of taxpayers, and includes some cuts for folks whose income falls in the middle brackets.

That's the hilarious irony of these events - if attendees simply match the proportional demographics of American taxpayers, 95% of them will have received tax cuts from Obama's tax plan.  And yet, they'll be at these things bleating about tax hikes - I had no idea that a 35% top marginal tax rate, rather than the 38% of the Clinton depression, would create such a populist uprising.  Oh, except that it's not populist, but sponsored by astroturfing groups.

Today will be the funniest tax day ever.
Why do you find it so hilarious that folks would oppose such a thing on principle, even if it doesn't affect them personally?  Do you think they're all just too stupid to be sensibly selfish about this?
138  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: I may have just become a believer in universal healthcare on: April 14, 2009, 12:03:11 AM

Quote from: Blackadar on April 13, 2009, 09:49:22 PM

Quote from: Brendan on April 13, 2009, 08:06:13 PM

Quote from: Laner on April 13, 2009, 07:49:50 PM

Our government has shown time and time again that they are incapable of handling money well.  Why anyone thinks giving them control over yet another huge chunk of the economy is a *good* idea is beyond me.

Quote from: Blackadar on April 13, 2009, 04:58:16 PM

No matter what evidence is produced to the contrary (i.e., the current financial crisis) that the free market is incapable of self-regulation, they'll always believe that the only role of government in the free market is no role at all.

Quote from: Autistic Angel on April 13, 2009, 06:21:07 PM

I'd love to see more substantive conversations about the pros and cons of different publicly funded health care options for the United States.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure what one would look like because anytime it's tried, there's always someone from the "Center for Protecting America from Liberal Fascists" there to complain that any option would increase taxes by 320%.


Yep, it's not hard to see their non-specific, unsubstantiated discussion points from a mile away.  Might as well preempt 'em. 
Frankly, I think you guys need some work on civil discussion.  Moliere specifically tried to engage you on a particular article concerning an expensive cancer treatment in New Zealand, and you didn't have anything to say until you could join a 'consensus' that any opponents would surely have nothing 'substantive' to add (like a multiple-choice Gallup poll!).
I realize you've convinced yourselves you can Google your way into expertise on these matters, but many of us have no such... I'm going to go ahead and say 'arrogance'.  Laner contributed a perfectly acceptable post in this context, and unless there's some history between you, I think your dismissal of it is rude and, more on point, foolish.  It's much the same objection I have to a universal health plan (in addition to your standard libertarian complaints about taxation inequity).  Our government clearly dropped the ball with our economy, and I consider that 'substantive'.
If you'd greatly prefer to drill down and speak about specifics, can you give us a chewable challenge (not 'defend privatized healthcare in toto').
139  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: I may have just become a believer in universal healthcare on: April 13, 2009, 04:04:18 AM
I'm not sure why we're begging the question at this point, but I don't really understand what 'availability' means in this context.  It seems to me that Canadians satisfaction numbers should be even higher than that, given that health care is not 'unavailable' to any of them.
140  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: I may have just become a believer in universal healthcare on: April 11, 2009, 08:20:48 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on April 11, 2009, 06:03:29 PM

Quote from: Moliere on April 10, 2009, 06:59:15 PM

Why argue a moral principle when you can argue pragmatic points. You can start with The Atlantic article from Virginia Postrel.

No, I'm not doing your research for you.  I just think it's funny that somehow you think nationalized health insurance is the same as armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon.  What, is Social Security akin to rape?  Is the postal service now Grand Theft Auto?   icon_lol icon_lol icon_lol icon_lol icon_lol
Do you want to "stop the bullshit hyperbole", or don't you?
Moliere is referring to the article he linked which points out some of New Zealand's perceived political inconsistencies in cost/benefit analysis for expensive cancer treatments.  That's a con, would you like to discuss it?

Quote from: brettmcd on April 11, 2009, 06:54:20 PM

People who have insurance now dont go to the Dr for small ailments, or preventative care, how will a flawed nationalized system change that in any way?
I think this is an interesting point.  Would these preventative care visits be mandatory?
141  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Skate 2 DLC on: April 03, 2009, 06:37:48 PM
I had Skate2 out for a while on rental (I'd like to grab it again actually).  I'd wait until you have unlocked all the available parks before trying any of the DLC, personally (I didn't end up buying any, but then again I don't own it).  I was very happy with the variety of areas (and I'm almost thinking the Community Center was still there?).  I liked the Boneyard halfpipes for aerial challenges, but the marina might be more what you're looking for in an open area, Producto.
142  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Neighbors can be distinctly un-fabulous... on: March 31, 2009, 04:48:54 AM
143  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: My current musical obsession (metal) on: March 27, 2009, 07:43:49 PM
Dethklok!  Yeah, I know, but it's really good!
144  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Far Cry 2 on: March 24, 2009, 10:40:12 PM

Quote from: JayDee on March 24, 2009, 08:26:35 PM

I haven't read through the whole thread for fear of spoilers, so I apologize if this has already been talked about.  My friend just sold the game back after putting 30 hours into it because he ran into what he called a "game-stopping bug" that apparently affects the 360 version of the game. He said he looked it up on the official forums and there's lots of reports on it there. I haven't looked very hard but the quick search that I did do didn't return anything signfiicant.

Has anyone here ran into this bug?
I usually warn any Friends I see playing about a bug I had where the 360 would immediately hard freeze on loading certain save points (sometimes even 2 consecutive saves).  Some of these occurred on those long multi-stage missions.  mad  Definitely keep a multi-save cycle running (I'd say at least 4).  I don't know what caused it, but I did have a problem earlier on where I couldn't enter the bar to complete one of the side friend missions (for the Arab guy, IIRC).  I was playing Josep.
Overall, I loved the game, but I don't mind playing certain games 'slow', just enjoying the immersion or looking for the perfect spot for a one-shot snipe, or enjoying a boatride at dusk.
I agree with Kathode's complaints, particularly about the unrelenting hostility of the world.  Also, cultivating friendships (or faction loyalty) is ultimately pointless (and maybe even counter-productive, actually), except for the opportunity to complete more missions.  I will defend the game on the spawning issues I've seen complaints about.  Sometimes you will drive down the road, pull a U-turn, and there are new enemies at a guard post, but I think this just occurs when you cross the edge of some internally defined 'zone'.  Many times, I would clear a post, then sleep at a nearby shack, and the post is still destroyed in the morning.  Also, some of the complaints about 'new guys spawning right behind me' is just a result of some interesting AI IMO; there are roaming patrols who will respond to distant trouble (often on foot), and some enemies will retreat from an attacked location and either move around the flank, or hunker down in cover and wait for you to show yourself before they violently announce their presence.  Of course, sometimes they act dumb as hell (particularly when you're wearing the camo suit I think).
Finally, the 'big problem' I have with Far Cry 2 was the same as GTAIV; it's such a big, convincing world that the things you actually can 'do' end up making the world feel kind of big and beautiful, but empty.  I see some animals, why can't I get missions to hunt a particular lion or those little deer whose purpose for existence seems to be performing comically suicidal headbutts on my jeep?  Why don't I have to worry about crocodiles in the water?  Why do you stop giving me, for example, assassination missions when I've done a certain number of them?  Even if I don't get particular rewards anymore, can't you just spawn random people for me to whack, or keep giving me convoys to blast even when I don't get any more weapons?  Why not extend replayability in some of these cases where it seems almost trivially easy and obvious?  I think I know the answer (DLC opportunity), but I don't like it.
145  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Battlefield 2 on: March 20, 2009, 12:04:56 AM

Quote from: Tals on March 18, 2009, 11:10:32 AM

I have the lot smile

Project reality mod apparently is also getting a lot of love
I loved PR.  It's still got a decent community?  The developers were selling the server package independently, IIRC?
146  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: House passes 90% tax on Bonuses for TARP recips. on: March 19, 2009, 11:35:50 PM
I just don't know how 'stimulating' it is for these companies to get involved in a poorly defined business arrangement with the government, then exist in fear of some newly-minted legal rationalization.
147  Gaming / Analog Gaming / Re: Need Settlers of Catan stragegy advice on: March 19, 2009, 10:55:23 PM
Initial placement is very important, and will also often force you to totally rethink any prior strategy.  The 8 and 6(?) spot are the usually popular because they are most likely, but realize that there's probably going to be a robber on them for much of the game.  Often I will try instead to stake out a spread of lesser parcels (3, 4, 5, 9, 10) so I get something with most dice results.  If you see where your opponents might get into a robber-swap contest between their heavily-relied-upon high-prob parcels, a little avoidance can really help out.  Also during placement, think about future city placement for you and your opponents (cities can't be right next door).  I try to plan ahead for what ports I can get to also; I rely heavily on their card swaps (especially if I'm bagging too many with a good parcel spread).
As far as big game strategy, there are only so many ways to get to 10 points:  have somewhere between 10 settlements and 5 cities, long road, big army, and victory cards. I generally play towards getting a solid 4-5 settlement clump near a favorable port, then start upgrading to cities and buying development cards (usually hoping for victory points).  If your early game starts racking up more wood and brick, you can asphalt it out a little more for the longest road boost, plus you can screw up your opponents' plans for expansion (I personally find the road contests too exhausting usually).  Another valid tactic is to concentrate most on development cards;  largest army not only provides a victory boost, but you will recieve hidden victory points, and have the robber where you want him most of the game.  You should still plan to expand a bit in the mid-late game, as development card perks alone won't cut it.
Encourage trade.  Look for opportunities (especially during initial placement) where you can casually get a strong position with later-game resources like wheat and stone.  Brick and wood are great initially, or for some strategies, but they usually turn into garbage by late game: have a port to dump them at if you go with them early.
Don't risk a lot of big resource hands to a 7 (when you lose half of you 8+ card hand); if you decide to wait to use them, don't forget there are more rolls before you get your chance again.
Have fun, it's a great game!
BTW, I like to play it on Xbox too.  Anyone?
148  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Apparently we're a nation of cowards now on: March 09, 2009, 11:38:59 PM
A fine post, but I'm uncomfortable with your excessive villification of monkeys.  Did one chew your genitals off or something?   Tongue
Regarding Kliban, I'm not talking about the 'success' of his comic per se, I'm talking about his defending or even just exploring his own misunderstanding of the scope and antagonism of 'monkey' imagery, if not with the readership than with the editor himself.  Would that be closer to the 'cowardice' towards race issues? 
I interpret Holder's comments as referring to more personal dialogues, very reduced in scope from socio-economic disparities or anything that might be proposed by a politician or said into a microphone.  I think there is already discussion on these issues (and they are 'safer' in that no one person can do anything about them anyway).
Person to person, I do think "How many white people think that black people are unevolved animalistic brutes?" should result in more meaningful and constructive dialogue than anything concerning gerrymandering or disenfranchisement. 
149  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: GTOfficial x360 Live Gamertag REQUEST THREAD on: March 07, 2009, 02:22:11 AM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on March 07, 2009, 02:03:32 AM

Quote from: RuperT on March 07, 2009, 01:22:49 AM

Me too, please.
MooseFoe

And thus ends the mystery of continually seeing you online and wondering just who the hell MooseFoe is and how we all know him biggrin

I'm world famous in Poland.  You should've asked Mytocles.
 slywink
150  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: GTOfficial x360 Live Gamertag REQUEST THREAD on: March 07, 2009, 01:22:49 AM
Me too, please.
MooseFoe
151  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Apparently we're a nation of cowards now on: March 07, 2009, 12:14:59 AM

Quote from: Brendan on March 06, 2009, 12:57:15 PM

Quote from: RuperT on March 05, 2009, 09:21:22 PM

When did I refuse to do that, and how the hell would you ever know if I was being disingenuous if I had?
Do you forget your previous posts immediately after authoring them?

"I think maybe you're too savvy if you consider your racial assassination metaphor as more obvious than 'cops shoot a monkey, interrupting his characteristically inept crafting of stimulus legislation'."
Oh, I forget lots of things these days... but I still don't see there a "disingenuous refusal to acknowledge that one of the common interpretations of that image was going to be "Obama portrayed as a dead monkey". "  I will acknowledge that one of the interpretations of that image is going to be "Obama portrayed as a dead monkey".

Quote from: Brendan on March 06, 2009, 12:57:15 PM

Quote
I can understand the imagery well enough now that the sentinels of equality have pointed it out, but I don't think it's exactly a burning cross when viewed objectively.  The 'blind spot' I was referring to (of which there could surely be more than one) is a blindness to people like myself (and others in this thread I think) who just don't feel deeply enough about this particular issue to immediately react to this cartoon.  Worse, we're called liars.
I don't think you're a liar - just that you're either obtuse and/or disingenuous.  No one here has claimed that some people might not see the racial imagery in the comic - clearly you exist and are not some elaborate and irritating Turing Test participant - but to suggest that the Post and Delonas didn't know the probable imputation of what they were publishing defies common sense.
Well, I guess I have to take 'obtuse'.  Might it be a blind spot to assume that I and other non-acutes are instead just being disingenuous?  I've made no claims regarding the producers' intent.

Quote from: Brendan on March 06, 2009, 12:57:15 PM

Quote from: RuperT on March 05, 2009, 09:21:22 PM

Well, sure, a 'well-intentioned editorial cartoonist' (which seems something of an oxymoron, BTW) might 'shy away'. I think you might have found the best example yet of AG Holder's 'cowardice'.  Would you disagree?
Yes, of course I disagree.   It isn't a credit to you that, when the Attorney General suggests that we be honest and frank in our discussions about race, you're mostly concerned about the (unabridged!) right of an editorial cartoonist to publish something that could be dropped without alteration into a Council of Conservative Citizens tract.
Finally!  This is a much more interesting and relevant discussion than a defense of my character, and with your permission maybe we could focus our efforts here.  AAngel, I'd ask the same of you.  I accept that you weren't intentionally making any insinuations, but you should admit the context might have made it seem so to me.  Thinking about it, I'd say you guys are obviously more political than I am; I think you make some distinctions that escape me.  This probably significantly informed my impression of the cartoon; I have a more nebulous concept of 'the government' as a self-serving gaggle of, well, monkeys who throw poop at each other and try to find bananas.  I think you give more of a personal identity to Obama, in a way.  He's not foremost in my mental model of 'the government'.  This may be why I didn't draw a natural reference to him from the cartoon.  Maybe.
Now:
Given that our cartoonist is well-intentioned,  why wouldn't you consider him one of Holder's 'cowards'?  Say some non-Delonas had obtusedly drawn that cartoon to comment on the ineptitude of the government, of which Obama is the figurehead, and the editor exclaims, "Cripes, Kliban!  It looks like you're calling Obama a porch monkey!  We can't print this!"  You wouldn't think Kliban is one of Holder's 'cowards' for capitulating?  I mean, that kind of thing is going to be the impetus for any meaningful racial discussions, isn't it?  Can you give me a better example?
152  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Apparently we're a nation of cowards now on: March 05, 2009, 09:55:26 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on March 04, 2009, 09:18:33 PM

Quote from: RuperT on March 03, 2009, 10:27:04 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on February 27, 2009, 10:36:33 PM

Quote from: RuperT on February 27, 2009, 09:36:33 PM

I'm insulted by an insinuation of bigotry (or half-brainedness) by you or others who think they have extraordinary insight into what people are really thinking.

I've written a number of messages on this topic, yet I have not insinuated that you are either bigoted or "half-brained."  Who are the "others" that you're referring to?

-Autistic Angel
It fits now, doesn't it?  Your heart's in the right place, but you're going way overboard with it.

No.  Questioning the reasoning behind your stance on one specific issue is a far cry from impugning your intelligence, honesty, or racial tolerance.  I find your interpretation of the comic unpersuasive because it requires a spectacular amount of faith in Sean Delonas' motives and none whatsoever in his intellectual, social, or artistic acumen.  That makes you astonishingly optimistic; not morally corrupt.

Quote from: Autistic Angel on March 03, 2009, 09:14:16 PM

It's like arguing that this guy was taking an innocent swipe at the White House groundskeeper, or that this GOP women's group was trying to underscore the value of a balanced diet.  This whole "racist by accident" defense wears pretty thin when the same wink-wink nudge-nudge ideas keep cropping up in the same context over and over again.
How do you follow 'questioning' with a paragraph like the above and claim no insinuation of bigotry? 
As far as Delonas' motives or offensive history, I have no interest in defending him whatsoever; he seems like a dick.  Frankly, looking at some of these other comics, I believe you're giving him too much credit for subtlety; I think he would've drawn a cigarette in the monkey's hand if he was specifically referring to Obama.  Conversely, it seems to me that the less obvious the racist metaphor appears, the more damning it becomes to you.  This works to a point, but who watches the watchmen?
Look, I'm just speaking up because I didn't want my 'stance' (which is basically "I didn't immediately see a racial connotation to the cartoon, and that doesn't make me a bad person") misapplied and used as some kind of 'bad example' or talking point for some of our master debaters.  That's all it is.  I'm not arguing this from some right-left political standpoint, and I've tried to avoid getting too deep into the sociological aspects.  I just don't want to be misunderstood or establish some identity as 'racist guy'.
Throw me a bone, huh?
153  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Apparently we're a nation of cowards now on: March 05, 2009, 09:21:22 PM

Quote from: Brendan on March 03, 2009, 10:52:08 PM

Quote from: RuperT on March 03, 2009, 10:27:04 PM

Sometimes a monkey's just a monkey.  Some people see a 'negro metaphor' and some see an 'incompetent metaphor'.  I'm honestly one of the latter (and I grew up in south Georgia, FWIW), and your failure to accept that just seems like a big blind spot in understanding race issues beyond what's in the headlines.
What a laughable assertion - the "big blind spot" in this thread is your disingenuous refusal to acknowledge that one of the common interpretations of that image was going to be "Obama portrayed as a dead monkey". 
When did I refuse to do that, and how the hell would you ever know if I was being disingenuous if I had?  I can understand the imagery well enough now that the sentinels of equality have pointed it out, but I don't think it's exactly a burning cross when viewed objectively.  The 'blind spot' I was referring to (of which there could surely be more than one) is a blindness to people like myself (and others in this thread I think) who just don't feel deeply enough about this particular issue to immediately react to this cartoon.  Worse, we're called liars.

Quote from: Brendan on March 03, 2009, 10:52:08 PM

Even if we were to take your claim of naivete at face value, I suspect that you're capable of wracking your brain and concluding, that, just maybe, there's a pretty incendiary history of that particular meme, and perhaps a well-intentioned editorial cartoonist might shy away from drawing the image.  It's not like the racists are consigned to history.
Well, sure, a 'well-intentioned editorial cartoonist' (which seems something of an oxymoron, BTW) might 'shy away'. I think you might have found the best example yet of AG Holder's 'cowardice'.  Would you disagree?
154  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: New Watchmen Trailer on: March 05, 2009, 02:53:47 AM
Just picked up my Watchmen Movie Pack, free with purchase of a Live product (in my case the cheapest one, the 1600 point card which is still a bit cheaper than impulse buying in NXE).
Two free tickets, usable in the next two weeks! 
...the smell of...Nostalgia
155  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Apparently we're a nation of cowards now on: March 03, 2009, 10:27:04 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on February 27, 2009, 10:36:33 PM

Quote from: RuperT on February 27, 2009, 09:36:33 PM

I'm insulted by an insinuation of bigotry (or half-brainedness) by you or others who think they have extraordinary insight into what people are really thinking.

I've written a number of messages on this topic, yet I have not insinuated that you are either bigoted or "half-brained."  Who are the "others" that you're referring to?

-Autistic Angel
It fits now, doesn't it?  Your heart's in the right place, but you're going way overboard with it.
Sometimes a monkey's just a monkey.  Some people see a 'negro metaphor' and some see an 'incompetent metaphor'.  I'm honestly one of the latter (and I grew up in south Georgia, FWIW), and your failure to accept that just seems like a big blind spot in understanding race issues beyond what's in the headlines.
156  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: BFBC: Where the players at? on: March 02, 2009, 11:46:14 PM
I'm down, Smoothie.  Friendify me.
157  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Apparently we're a nation of cowards now on: February 28, 2009, 03:32:24 AM

Quote from: Blackadar on February 28, 2009, 02:21:23 AM

The swastika might be a symbol of peace in Hinduism and Buddhism, but it's obvious why it's offensive to many people.  
You think this analogy has some utility to our discussion?  Do you expect a Hindu to abandon appropriate usage of the symbol out of respect to New Delhi jews?  That question was rhetorical; I see no point in torturing this analogy.

Quote from: Blackadar on February 28, 2009, 02:21:23 AM

It's been detailed here how that cartoon exploits all sorts of racial issues and whether you believe it does or not isn't important.
"Detailed"?  Not really.  It "exploits...racial issues"?  These heavy racial issues are, what, "jerky racists say black people look like monkeys" and "black people don't like to be shot by cops"?  Is that right?  Why isn't it important whether I believe it or not?  What could be more important in this context?  I'm people, too, and according to you one of those who are in dire need of education, or is it "calling out"?  Do you prefer candid discussions with people who already agree with you?
I can only tell you that I'm not being dishonest, and I'm not sure how I'd convince you that I'm not extremely dense.  I also don't know how you think I am exhibiting 'cowardice'(fine time for you to get on topic BTW).  I make no claims of being without prejudice and thus have no fear of hypocrisy; what do you think I'm afraid of?
Care to talk about it, or should I don my smoking jacket?
158  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Apparently we're a nation of cowards now on: February 28, 2009, 02:03:08 AM

Quote from: Blackadar on February 28, 2009, 01:14:58 AM

Quote from: RuperT on February 27, 2009, 09:36:33 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on February 27, 2009, 02:47:03 AM

Quote from: Moliere on February 26, 2009, 11:53:34 PM

Great op-ed from Walter Williams on this subject.

Quote
Just because some activity is not racially integrated does not mean that it is racially segregated.

I have experienced his reference to white professors that accept behavior from black people that they wouldn’t begin to accept from whites in my college classes. The professor makes a point of "randomly" calling on everyone except the black student because every time he does the student's response is always "uh, how should I know, you're the teacher" or some such nonsense. This type of pass in class discussion should be unacceptable.

No doubt.  It goes back to us being a nation of cowards.  We're so afraid to call it on both sides that we effectively hide from it.  Just like we have apologists for the cartoon, which anyone with half a brain can see could be easily interpreted to be in extremely poor taste, we have have apologists who will allow the celebration of "culture", with total disregard to the exclusionary practices that celebration entails. 

I suppose you consider me one of these 'apologists', as I saw the monkey and thought 'government' instead of 'black president'?  I fully understand that some people will interpret it differently, and may even feel strongly enough to try to address the grievance.  I'm insulted by an insinuation of bigotry (or half-brainedness) by you or others who think they have extraordinary insight into what people are really thinking.



You simply don't get it.  Read what I posted again.  It's not YOUR interpretation that counts here.
Who else's interpretation would count here?  Are you just speaking rhetorically?  If you actually want to have that 'candid discussion' or 'call' somebody on something, you need to get your head out of the clouds. 
By 'apologists', are you referring to people, like me, who claim not to have seen a racist agenda with the cartoon, or are you more sensibly referring to people who think no one should have a problem with that cartoon?  I just ask you to be more careful with perjorative labels in a thread, especially when they've already been applied so, dare I say it, 'liberally'.
159  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Apparently we're a nation of cowards now on: February 28, 2009, 01:47:41 AM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on February 27, 2009, 10:36:33 PM

Quote from: RuperT on February 27, 2009, 09:36:33 PM

I'm insulted by an insinuation of bigotry (or half-brainedness) by you or others who think they have extraordinary insight into what people are really thinking.

I've written a number of messages on this topic, yet I have not insinuated that you are either bigoted or "half-brained."  Who are the "others" that you're referring to?

-Autistic Angel
It seemed to me you argued that any "innocent" interpretation of the cartoon is a product of either ignorance or deceit (eg your first rebuttal to Lettuce).  Maybe I didn't understand your position entirely (like you apparently misunderstood my innocuous use of 'theoretical'), and I certainly don't think you meant it maliciously, but it came off that way to me.  I'm not emotionally wounded or anything, but I don't care to be categorized as an 'apologist' or anything else other than maybe 'mildly insensitive to monkey metaphors'.
160  Non-Gaming / Political / Religious Nonsense / Re: Apparently we're a nation of cowards now on: February 27, 2009, 09:36:33 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on February 27, 2009, 02:47:03 AM

Quote from: Moliere on February 26, 2009, 11:53:34 PM

Great op-ed from Walter Williams on this subject.

Quote
Just because some activity is not racially integrated does not mean that it is racially segregated.

I have experienced his reference to white professors that accept behavior from black people that they wouldn’t begin to accept from whites in my college classes. The professor makes a point of "randomly" calling on everyone except the black student because every time he does the student's response is always "uh, how should I know, you're the teacher" or some such nonsense. This type of pass in class discussion should be unacceptable.

No doubt.  It goes back to us being a nation of cowards.  We're so afraid to call it on both sides that we effectively hide from it.  Just like we have apologists for the cartoon, which anyone with half a brain can see could be easily interpreted to be in extremely poor taste, we have have apologists who will allow the celebration of "culture", with total disregard to the exclusionary practices that celebration entails. 

I suppose you consider me one of these 'apologists', as I saw the monkey and thought 'government' instead of 'black president'?  I fully understand that some people will interpret it differently, and may even feel strongly enough to try to address the grievance.  I'm insulted by an insinuation of bigotry (or half-brainedness) by you or others who think they have extraordinary insight into what people are really thinking.

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