We'll be lucky if it makes it by summer, I'm thinking Fall or even winter now.  12/12/12 anyone?  Or maybe an end of times 12/21/12?

 
   
 

[Spoiler]

I'm having a great time with this game.
  
There are a few quibbles, mostly in combat (because I've been spoiled by Demons'/Dark Souls combat), but on the whole it is a fantastic game.
      
Out of untold hours with several characters, I finally hit my first borked quest (out of hundreds). I have a book that I looted from a chest early on. The librarian for the Mage College just gave me the quest, but he doesn't recognize that I have the book in my inventory. The game still thinks it's in the original chest across the map and, because it's a quest item, I can't put it back in the chest and try to collect it again. No worries, I'm just amazed that it's the only glitch I've seen so far in such a complex game.
          
The main reason for my post, though, is that something happened in the Skyrim world that makes me wonder if it is a normal "feature" of the world and NPCs or if an event happened in my game that I just can't figure out.
  
I don't think it's a spoiler, but I'll tag it just in case. It has to do with Adrienne(?) the blacksmith just inside the gates of Whiterun.
  

Spoiler for Hiden:

Adrienne has been a fixture since I made my ragged way up from Helgen and Riverwood in the early part of the game. I'd talk to her outside and sell things to her every time I returned to Whiterun. She was almost always my first stop after a dungeon run.
  
Then, a couple of visits back to Whiterun, I noticed her missing from outside the shop. I didn't think anything of it because sometimes she's in the shop and sometimes she's walking down the street.
  
After a few more visits, she still wasn't there, so I go in the shop and notice a new line of dialogue from the guy inside about "who does your forging?" When I click on it, he says that after Adrienne's death, he gets his supplies from a caravan.
  
I was floored. Silly, I know, but she was a constant in my character's world and now I don't know what happened to her. I've been up to the Jarl's castle (Dragonreach) and I can't find her father, either, although I've really just started looking for him, so I don't know if he's truly gone, too. (Edit: I did find her father, but he says nothing about her death).
    
So, my question is, do characters die, just as a natural part of the ongoing world? Or did something specific happen to her? She was fine long after the dragon attacked Whiterun and I don't know of any other event that happened there that could have lead to her death. I'd sure like to know what happened to her.
    
I'm curious if anyone else has had anything like this happen.
 
Edit 2: The more I think about it, it is obviously something the devs anticipated, since  they put in a voiced line of dialogue acknowledging it. I hope there's a way to find out what happened to her.

a bit more refinement in combat.  Right now, it's lacking the finesse of a game like Dark Souls that makes the combat actually something to look forward to.

   
I am absolutely loving Skyrim. I'm at level 21 and feel like I've barely scratched the surface of the game.
   
However, I agree that combat is a letdown after Dark Souls. It's not detracting from my overall game experience at all, but I do wish it were a tighter system.
   
For example, I have light armor, with the perk that lets it weigh nothing, but my maneuverability (while certainly adequate for Skyrim) feels like a big step down from what I have in Demons'/Dark Souls.

In.

[while I was on fire]

I played Morrowind, and Oblivion, but couldn't finish either. Didn't get far at all in either. So I wasn't too worked up about Skyrim. I thought, it will be nice to see some of the vista's and views with my new card, but other than that I wasn't holding out for much. But wow, I'm surprised at how much fun Im having. The atmosphere that seemed to be missing in the other two is here in Skyrim in spades, for me. With a game like this combat is secondary to every other RPG element.

 
  
These are my feelings exactly. I enjoyed Morrowind and Oblivion (and even Fallout 3), but never felt drawn in like I have been with Skyrim.
    
I've got a Nord specializing mainly in two-handed, light armor, and restoration.
    
Favorite moment: I was fighting Mirmulnir and triggered the death blow sequence. I jumped on his head, while I was on fire, and finished him off. I wish I would have thought to get a screenshot, but I was consumed by battlelust at that moment.
    

Wrong person to ally with doopri. I was hoping to hide a little longer and generate more discussion to uncover JayDee's partner.
 
However, I'm about to board a plane and will be offline for a couple hours and I can't afford a quick lynch that would leave me unable to speak.
 
JayDee is a wolf. 100% guaranteed.

[JayDee]

So, what do we have now:
     
Soulchilde
Purge - HUNG, VILLAGER
Moliere - MURDERED BY WWS
Bulletpig
JayDee
theohall
Qantaga
Cragmyre
doopri
   
Two wolves in the group {Soulchilde, Bulletpig, JayDee, theohall, Qantaga, Cragmyre, doopri}
           
Reading back through the thread this morning, it looks like doopri may found one of the wolves for us:
     

and while i still say hang qant (sorry ), keep an eye on jd.  hey jd when you mentioned your two versions of what happened (either the wolves were scared to jump in on qant or one already had) why did it never occur to mention a THIRD option?  that we already had a wolf about to be noosed up?

   
Let's look at what JayDee said:
   

That's three for Qantaga....Has a wolf already joined the chain trying to start a pile on? Or are they sitting back and letting things play out?

   
It sure sounds like JayDee *knows* that I'm good. On a game beginning in the day cycle, only the wolves would know something like that.
   
JayDee

i did initially suspect purge but im not going to start tossing votes around.

   
So, you are/were suspicious of purge, but you won't vote for him.
   
However, when it comes to me:
     

- jump in with the blood thirsty majority

   

here in being surprised we arent already done with the first vote - i thought wed "rush" through that one on some poor soul and see where the wolves go from there.

 

and even if not - well its gotta be someone!

   
Your reasons for voting for me is that you were joining a bloodthirsty mob, in addition to wanting to "rush" through the day (in contradiction to actually, you know, trying to find a wolf), and that it's got to be someone?
   
I hope you're a wolf, because your current reasoning isn't helping the village.

did we actually stumble on a wolf by accident?

   
Ask yourself this; which is more likely:
   
1. That you stumbled upon a wolf by accident?
   
-or-
   
2. That the wolves (or misguided villagers) are manipulating an early pile-on of votes (Purge, Moliere, Doopri) to make it appear that way?
     

[Purge]

Scenario 1: ... If none of them were, we likely would have had two wolves kick this into a night cycle with a pile-on.
 
Scenario 2: ..It may be that the wolves missed the opportunity, or they simply didn't want to be the last two to the party.

   
Purge, your logic is faulty and you've been playing these games long enough to know it.
   
Why would wolves pile on a vote this early in the game? The wolves know that I will come back villager. They know that their piling on to "kick this into the night cycle" will draw attention. You know fully well that their best course of action is sit back and let the village do their dirty work.
     
You are working very hard to stir up votes against me, while keeping your own vote off (for later deniability). That smells very wolfish to me.
           

As for me, I've self-voted for a reason. As I said I'm an unpowered villager - killing me is better than a seer, but not better than a wolf.

     
I think you know my feelings on the self-vote.
   
Purge

[Moliere]

It's interesting that:
   
A. You're threatened by analysis.
B. You use the word "excessive," which is frivolous, at best.
C. You pounce on Purge's "unpronounceable" accusation, which reveals a rather bloodthirsty behavior.
   
Moliere

So, we've got a stealthy JayDee, a misleading Purge, and an apparently frustrated Soulchilde.
           
Let's see what kind of mood the rest of our merry band is in this morning (and keep an eye out for a glinting fang or two along the way).
                                     
Should make for an interesting day.
     

I'm quite a bit behind most, due to work travel the past few weeks, but I'm having a great time with the game.
   
I was reminded over the weekend why I love the game so much.
   
I was down in the Depths, heading for the Giant Rat, when I fell down a hole into the midst of half a dozen big-eyed frog-thingies. I was immediately cursed and, then, dead.
   
Well, I was carrying about 12k souls at the time (enough for a couple skill bumps at my level) because I had already dispatched of the butchers and didn't think there was anything that would impede my progress back to my souls should anything surprise me. I should know better by now (after Demons' Souls and my early foray into Dark Souls).
   
So, I'm cursed and need to make my way back to the gargoyle's tower to buy a Purging Stone (or whatever it is called), but I have to try to get back to the souls that I lost. The problem was I had no idea where they were, since I died down in the hole. I knew that I didn't want to go back through that hole, so I explored until I finally found the hidden ladder leading down into the under area of the Depths.
 
It was nerve-wracking with all the rats and froggys down there, lurking around each corner. If I died while exploring down there, those 12k souls were gone (not a big deal, but still worth trying for at my level). I finally figured out that the smoke from the froggys was the cause of the curse and learned how to avoid it. After multiple hallways, corners, and stairs, I finally came to the spot where all the froggys were lurking. Taking them out one by one, and nervous as a cat that I might get cursed a second time (if that is even possible, but I sure didn't want to find out), I finally dispatched them and turned the corner to see the glorious green glow of my souls.
   
Then, I made my way back through the familiar territory (still having to be alert, since I was at half health) to the gargolyle bell tower. Applying that Purging Stone was an enormous sense of palpable relief. 
   
So much fun!

I missed this thread completely.
   
Count me IN.

I'll end up with this eventually (it's HoMM... even if it were a HoMM IV re-packaging, my genetic makeup would force me to buy it anyway).  
   
However, the demo didn't play nice with my laptop, so I'll have to play with the Catalyst settings and drivers or wait for a patch.
 
Glad to hear that there's some good gameplay and graphics in this one.
 
In the meantime, off to fire up a HoMM III map...

just preordered the CE off of Amazon.

Thanks!  Mine is now pre-ordered as well.

Ditto.
 
Thanks or the heads-up CeeKay!

You are NOT helping the wait time, friend.

 
Stupid wait time.  

As for invasions, don't grow complacent. People from the right (wrong?) covenant can invade you without causing a message to appear. Doesn't that make you feel safe?

   
That's good to know. I'm still used to the Black Phantom notices of Demons' Souls. Thanks TiLT.

Yesterday - 2 times I turn around to see someone standing there- just standing there and then they disappear. The 2nd time I approached and tried to attack but there was no hit marker?
Then they disappeared again.

Is this someone invading my world - then leaving before a fight?

   
As shon said, that isn't an invader. It's very clear when you are invaded.
   
I've noticed the same thing that you have with regard to seeing other players. It seems to happen to me mostly around bonfires, but in other areas as well. It looks like another player (in clear view) standing there, then they disappear. I suspect that's the game bringing them in (maybe they're loading a game at that point), then putting them in ghost form as they continue.

There is one aspect of this game, though, that is making me a little sad.
     
When I first played through Demons' Souls, semiconscious was my mentor through the experience and DamageInc was playing the game a few steps ahead of me, so I felt a strong Boletarian bond with them (among others who were playing at that time as well, but they were they two that were paralleling my playthrough).
   
Now, I find that I want to talk to them about Dark Souls, but DamageInc is in the great beyond and it looks like semi hasn't visited GT for over a year.
   
This playthrough is for you semi and DI. 

Awesome, just awesome.
   
It feels like spending time with an old friend.
   
I am very happy.

There's no Boletaria

   
It will always be Boletaria in my heart.
   

no world tendencies.

   
Thanks TiLT!

I can't wait. Just about 7 hours and I'll finally be able to return to Boletaria.
   
One question (I've intentionally avoided previews to explore the game on my own): Are there still world tendencies, or has that been replaced by the humanity aspects?

I am incredibly jealous of everyone playing the game right now.
   
I am on the road and won't be able to play until tomorrow night around midnight. Once I get back to Boletaria, I may not resurface until Monday.

So, I should know by now to avoid posts by EddieA.
   
I read the reviews he posted and couldn't resist.
   
I'm on the road this week and won't be able to play Dark Souls until the weekend, so I took the plunge on Frayed Knights earlier this week.
     
It is a bit more expensive than it probably should be (especially when a game like Dungeons of Dredmor is at $4.99), but I don't mind supporting indie games when they're well done and look to be a labor of love.
     
The graphics are two or three generations behind, but still serviceable.
       
However, even with the price and the older graphics, I'm glad I picked this up.
     
It is very much a Wizardry/M&M genre game, but it has it's own flourishes with things like Drama Points (for powerful skills that are available as you accomplish tasks and win fights) and exhaustion that works in conjunction with HP and MP points.
       
I have my party up to level 7. There are a lot of options available at level up. You start with a traditional Warrior, Rogue, Mage, Healer party lineup, but you can level them up anyway you want from that point on. For example, my Mage is now a hybrid Mage/Healer..
     
I imagine most people would be better off waiting for a price drop, but I've really enjoyed the game so far.

Here's the funny thing for me. I can see both sides of the argument. I'm all about player choice. I screamed for years (and still do) at PC games that don't have a "save anywhere" feature (don't want to save until a checkpoint? Don't. But, don't take away my choice to save wherever I want). I desperately wished for an Easy mode in Ninja Gaiden and even with a certain boss in Final Fantasy XIII.
    
However, with Demons'/Dark Souls, it is such a different game experience that I really do think that an Easy mode would detract from the overall experience.
  
Here's why. As you get more comfortable with the game (Demons' Souls, of course... I'm assuming Dark Souls will be similar), most parts become "easy," as you get more familiar with your character and with the environment/mobs/maps, etc. (You still have to be careful, but I would farm areas later in the game that filled me with dread in the early part of the game).
    
Demons' Souls is one of my all time favorite games. The sense of accomplishment that I felt moving from terrified/weak/incompetent noob in this dark, new world, to adequate/careful/still timid adventurer to accomplished/skilled/"badass" was one of the most rewarding experiences I've had in decades as a gamer.
  
So, just a few personal observations:
      

Since the analogies to other media are not welcome, how about to other games?  What if, for instance, Diablo 2 was released in a state equivalent to Hardcore Hell difficulty, with the reasoning that it is/was Blizzard's unyielding vision to create a dark roguelike game.  I imagine a similar discussion would have happened and a lot of players would likely feel alienated.  But does the fact that some players enjoyed D2 in the normal, non-hardcore version diminish the fun and difficulty or "artistry" of the Hardcore Hell experience?  I really don't think so.  Having played both (and pretty much everything in between), I can say they are very very different experiences, and I loved them in different ways.  I just don't know if I'd ever have played HC if I hadn't wet my feet in normal, or if I'd even bought the game if all there was was a HC version.as I used to, so some additional options would have been nice.

   
rittch, that's a pretty good example, but here's the difference; Demons' Souls isn't truly "hardcore." Even though your character dies, the only thing you lose are "souls," which is basically just a measure of currency (to level up attributes, skills, buy items, repair, learn spells, etc.). You even have the opportunity to recover those "souls" if you can make it back safely to the place you died. However, even if you can't make it back to recover the "souls," you only lose currency. You never lose levels, skills, items, spells or anything else. You start back at the beginning of the level where you died, but you've only lost currency and, later in the game, the amount of currency that you've lost is almost inconsequential in the grand scheme of the game (it's very easy in later areas to farm significant amounts of "souls").
    
The best example I can give is that there were times in D2 (normal mode), if your stash was at max gold, you could lose a significant amount of gold that you were carrying when you died. In D2, you could then make a run for your body to recover your items, but most of that gold was gone (can't remember how the percentages worked on how much gold you actually lost). However, in Demons' Souls, you never had to make a run to recover your items, you were just trying to make a run to recover your gold (souls).
      
 

The thing is, with the exception of the bosses, the game isn't as hard as the other games being talked about in a conventional sense.  

   
This is very true.
    
Let me give you an example.
    
When I first started Demons' Souls, I experimented with almost every class. One of my favorites was the Magician, but she ran out of mana rather quickly and I had no way to regen mana at that early level (and I would burn through mana items very quickly). I had literally no chance, in my beginning knowledge of Demons' Souls, to take that Magician through the first level of the game.
    
So, I abandoned the Magician and went for a Barbarian that could wield a Bastard Sword and Metal Shield. I gradually learned/fought/advanced throught the first level of the game (with a lot of trial and error).
  
I will admit to significant frustration along the way, but it was always tempered with an equally significant sense of accomplishment and satisfaction as I learned to progress slowly.
  
Eventually, my Barbarian made it through the entire game and on into the New Game + mode. Beating Demons' Souls was my most fulfilling gaming experience ever. (There are many games that I enjoyed as much, if not more, than Demons' Souls, but none that gave me the "jump for joy, dance around the room" rush that beating Demons' Souls and mending my little corner of Boletaria gave me).
    
So, then, I went back and created a brand new Magician. This was a character with a Short Sword and a Leather Shield (nowhere near as good as the weapons my Barb wielded). The damage that the Short Sword could do was almost laughable in comparison, especially with the Magician's marginal Strength, Dexterity, and Vitality stats. The Magician's strength was in casting spells.
  
However, I was able to play the Magician through the first level (that had seemed so brutally hard the first few times I went through it) all the way through the first level without ever casting a spell. I took her through with just that Short Sword and Leather Shield, meleeing all the way, and even beat the boss of that level.
    
Now, this isn't to say that I'm some uber "elite" gamer (in reference to the "elite" discussion above). Those of you who've played with me in games before know that, if anything, I fall firmly on the casual gamer side of the scale. The point is that, once you learn about the game and the levels, it is very fair and manageable.
    
Now, obviously, there are so many games and so little time/money, that I would never dream of trying to convince anyone to play any game that would cause more frustration than enjoyment, but I really believe that Demons'/Dark Souls difficulty, while considerable, is more a learning curve difficulty and not an unfair or overly punitive difficulty.

Weren't you saying in the iphone thread that you liked roguelikes like Fargoal?  This is the same idea or at least very similar IMO.

   
It's interesting that you should mention this.
  
Way back when Demons' Souls first released in the US, I bought the game before I even owned a PS3.
    
I had been playing the game in the first level of the castle. I was still trying to wrap my mind around the game and wondering about the difficulty, when Chaz posted this:
    

Yeah, it's definitely slow and steady difficulty.  If you go into it like you would a rogue-like, and expect that death will happen, and just endeavor to delay it as long as possible/make it as spectacular as possible, you'll be fine.  

   
The lightbulb went off in my head with that observation and I loved every minute of Demons' Souls from that moment on, once I went in with the rogue-like mindset (I even played almost all the way through the + mode because I was so enamored with the game).
        
The sad thing about looking back at that thread is all the posts (help/advice/camaraderie) by DamageInc in that thread.

6 days, 11 hours, 43 minutes, 57 seconds.
     
Have I mentioned that I'm counting the days (hours/minutes/seconds)?

2012

   
Oh, sure. They say "2012," when they really mean "maybe 2015."

Dark Souls coming out on October 4th, for suuuure.

   
I am counting the days.

My company is about to acquire tablets. Since we're a small company, we're each being given a choice as to which tablet we'd like.
   
However, I'm quite clueless and wanted to see if anyone here has feedback on some of the choices.
   
It boils down to three, I think:
   
1. Samsung Galaxy. Wi-fi, 4G.
 
2. Motorola Xoom. Wi-fi, 3G (with option to ship to Motorola for "free" upgrade to 4G).
   
3. iPad 2. My company is "encouraging" us not to get the iPad 2 because it does not support Flash (which is used by some of our programs).
   
I'm curious if anyone has any experiences with the Galaxy and/or Xoom in particular, including experience with their keyboards/docks.
   
They are pushing the Galaxy, since it is available now at Verizon (our carrier).  I seem to hear slightly better things about the Xoom, but the "ship back for 4G" sounds like a pain.
   
The biggest thing I'll be using it for is for e-mail, meeting notes and tools, internet access, etc.
 
Game apps, Movies (Netflix?), music are also important.
     
I could even go with a Wi-Fi only and not worry about the Verizon requirement, since I mostly have wireless access, but it would be nice to have 4G for when I am working at a customer site without wireless or with a secure network.
   
If none of them really stack up to the iPad 2, I can tell my boss that I'll use my laptop (although I'd like not to lug it around as much as I do now) for anything that needs Flash.
   
So, any general impressions about the Galaxy, the Xoom, the iPad 2, or any others (HP Touchpad?) would be very helpful.

According to a blog post at the developer's website, the saves are still good; they just won't currently load.  They've said there's a patch coming today that will fix the problem and let you load your saved games.

First off, the good news. We have managed to fix the save file issue, and we will have a patch in your hands tomorrow. So hold onto them.

   
Excellent news. I had grown fond of my little guy. I'm glad I'll get to play him some more.
 
The upside to the (temporarily) broken saves was that I was forced to trying a few different builds. I'm digging Astrology. The Radiant Aura is a great little spell to keep weaker characters alive in the early going. The various magic skills all look pretty cool.

Well, this is disappointing.
   
I played a little this morning. A little while after I quit, I noticed a Steam message that Dungeons of Dredmor had finished downloading (an update, apparently, that ironically is supposed to fix crashes).
   
Now, when I launch the game, I cannot load my save file. When I do the game closes (I got an achievement for it, "Suddenly the Dungeon Collapses," as a booby prize). I've even tried to start a new game and save it to see if that helps. When I do that, I can load the new game save file, but not my previous game save file. What's disappointing is that I was moving along through floor 5 and was about to turn in two quests that I had finished.
   
It's not a huge deal. I suppose I can just treat it like he died, but he won't be on my scoreboard now, and I hate to lose all that progress when I wasn't killed in game.

Drop the items directly onto the salesman.

 
Thank you TiLT! That is a huge help.   
   

They're going to add the ability to Shift-Click an item directly to sell it.  Here are the other things they plan on adding in the next patch.

   
Sweet!

Oh yes, the Horadric Lutefisk Cube. I've used it a lot actually, particularly when low on inventory space and a long way from the shop.

 
That brings up a question. I haven't figured out how to sell more than one item yet. I find the shops in their various locations (with the clownish guard who I can't interact with to sell). The only way I've been able to sell anything is to buy something first, then put an item that I want to sell on the empty platform that held the item I bought.
  
I'm sure I'm missing the obvious, but how do you sell multiple items?

Slow down, don't approach it like an action game

 
Very good advice!
   

Food seems to be fairly plentiful. Eat some if you need to.

   
Even if you run out of food, you can hit the Space bar over and over while your health slowly regens (unless you have vampirism, that is). 
   
I am enjoying this game immensely. I've been farthest with a melee (sword, crit, dual-wield, etc.) character, but I'm having the most fun with the random skills (the last icon). My favorite was a dodging, cross-bow wielding, vampiric, sneaking, smithing, golem-making, viking wizard.
 
I've poked my head into level 3, but promptly got it severed.

Dungeons of Dredmor (finally).

 
Ditto!

They finally announced a release date and platform - July 13 on Steam   I wish it were coming out sooner, but at least it's not stuck in limbo anymore.

   
Thanks for the update. I'm glad it's finally resolved, but July 13 sounds so far away.