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16961  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Sales Discussion- GTA, Halo 2, and Others on: October 28, 2004, 09:44:37 PM
Quote from: "farley2k"
I can't imagine how Halo 2 could out sell GTA since the PS2 install base is so much larger.  Even if every person with an Xbox bought Halo 2 I don't think in pure numbers it would match GTA:SA simply because there are so many more PS2s out there.

Exactly. We're comparing apples to oranges. We should be looking at attach rate. The impact the game has on their respective markets (and growth in the market itself).
16962  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Sales Discussion- GTA, Halo 2, and Others on: October 28, 2004, 09:42:12 PM
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
In my experience, XBox gamers have been pretty freakin' conformist when it comes to their buying habits and game libraries.  To put that another way--is there anyone that still owns an XBox who won't be buying Halo 2?  Frankly, if Halo 2 doesn't interest you, chances are you've already ditched your XBox for another system (like I did awhile back).

Now, last time I checked the statistics, the PS2 had a far greater user base than the XBox did--so GTA:SA already has a leg up on Halo 2, as it's an exclusive capable of reaching more users.  What also makes me believe GTA:SA will outsell Halo 2 is its broader appeal:  those who love action games can shoot their hearts out in it, those who love racing games can collect and tweak cars and bikes, those who love RPGs will enjoy the character growth and story, etc.  There's something for nearly everyone in GTA:SA.  Not so with Halo 2.

My money is on GTA:SA outselling Halo 2.  With the new model PSTwos out and that reinvigorating hardware hype, I can see plenty of Christmas mornings opening with a brand new PSTwo and GTA:SA lying beside it.

The race will be close for awhile, GTA:SA always holding a noticable, but not huge, lead.  Once we're past the holidays, though, GTA:SA sales will stay fairly stable, while Halo 2 sales will bottom out.  Why?  Like I said above, who owns an XBox and won't be getting Halo 2?  The XBox market will be amazingly saturated, and Halo 2 sales will drop to a trickle.

1.5 mil is not the base install for xbox in the US. Halo 1 is still in the top 10 for sales the last time I checked (a few weeks ago). It has sold consistantly, and has a high attach rate.  It's never fallen out of the top10 for sales. I think your comments on Halo 2 being a tentpole of sales is skewed beyond reason; it seems to be that counter-backlash topic you brought up in another thread.

As to GTA:SA outselling it, no kidding. The fact that there are more PS2s means that even if the attach rate of GTA (which reflects the popularity of the game more than total sales) is half, the installed bases are dramatically different.  

I disagree with the PSTwo statement though; the PSOne sold better because it also dropped in price and became the econo-station. The market saturation for PS2 has, frankly, hit it's stride. It will go up, but not dramatically. PSTwos will be purchased to replace burnt out PS2 systems, and the occasional newcomer. You're not going to see a glut of system sales based on the PSTwo alone.

I further suggest that since the Xbox potential market is not saturated, that the Halo2 sales will keep up, or be only marginally smaller than, the hardware sales themselves.

As to your comment about the diversity choices of Xbox gamers, I'm inclinded to believe you haven't looked very hard. The PS2 is just as railed as the xbox market, except it panders to overwrought anime- based RPGs rather than FPS games. Frankly, the PS2 market thus far has had a horrible record for FPS genres; with every port comes sacrifices to immersion and experience (just look at the Clancy games ... they couldn't even include doors in the PS2 rainbow six games. puke )

As I understand it LE, you resent the Xbox (and subsequently people who enjoy theirs). I don't know if it's a problem you have with the predominant games on the system, you hate microsoft, or that an Xbox fell out of a 5 storey window and killed your brother.

I have an aversion to the PS2, as I don't feel like paying full sticker price for 480i games (I borrow a friends PS2, I know how bad it looks on a 51" widescreen). If the system were to be cut in half, I'd have me an Xbox and a PStwo to tool around in rented games. See, I'm part of that potential market; I enjoy RPGs as much as you likely do. But I enjoy other games as much and don't mind missing out on them.

As it stands, I've got enough games on coming out on PC and Xbox that I'm interested in that don't justify losing out 4 games this season to be able to afford a system alone, let alone tack on 1 or 2 games that truly interest me in the platform. Yes, that does mean I think people would be crazy to buy an Xbox for Halo2 alone, and I stand by that. But I can think of many other reasons to have the big green brick plugged into my pretty tv(s).
16963  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Bards Tale Impressions on: October 28, 2004, 06:00:20 AM
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
I'll bet you a dollar this game sells really, really poorly.

"So, when do you think we should release this obscure-franchise Action/RPG clone?"

"How about on that Grand Steal Vehicle game's release day, or whatever it's called?  I mean, people will already be in the stores for that, why wouldn't they buy our game too?"


A Bard's tale isn't obscure, and frankly if you can only focus on GTA:SA, then why are you busy dropping bait in other threads? Shouldn't you be get bizzay cappin' innocent mo^%$!#$%^ers from a BMX?

According to the IGN review I skimmed, it seems the combat system is the detractor to the score... but the humour is off the charts. Gee, Sam N Max had no real controls (point-and-click ain't gaming interface) and I loved the hell outta that "obscure" franchise.

Y'no, Bard's Tale is one of the pioneer games, kinda like the Doom of the RPG genre. Between Bards Tale games, along with Ultima, Eye of the Beholder, Wizardry and the Might and Magic series you've got some of the best PC games released in the 80's.  I find that contemporary games, other than the 3rd dimension (eye candy) and about 80% shorter playtime the classics had, they're all still using the same game mechanics and motivators.

On the Xbox side, DOA Ultimate and Bards Tale are the two games worth looking at this week, so I'm thinking for an xbox release it wasn't a bad date, however it's crunch time for most games; might as well pick a date and hope like hell you can sell enough. 2% sales market this time of year is better than 20-30% market in first quarter, according to an article in a mag I subscribe to.. (it's either EGM or XBN... maybe OXM. Don't recall, don't care to). It really doesn't matter when they release it within the season; the juggernauts are going to take the lions share of the transactions. Two weeks earlier and people might have rented it; but they're still saving their pennies for either GTA or Halo2, or Metriod (I think; I'm not  up as much on the GC game scene).

Two weeks later, Halo2. Maybe december release date, but it's unlikely that it'll sell well that close to christmas.

moving on...

has anyone played it yet? I'm likely going to rent it before the end of the weekend.
16964  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Buying an and controller recs wanted on: October 28, 2004, 05:32:23 AM
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
As far as component cables- I would probably just pick up the standard ones included in the MS HD Pack.  I wouldn't go any cheaper but I also don't think its worth spending the extra bucks on Monster cables or anything like that.

I'd have to disagree with that statement; although you'll be paying for it (about 50-60 bux US) the monster HD kit is head and shoulders above the xbox one.

The grade of cables is better, the breakout box design for the MS ones leaves a lot to be desired. Monster also has a much sturdier jacket on it.

There is one catch with the monster cables; if you intend to use dolby 5.1 you've got to buy their optical cable. Not a big deal, but I thought I should warn you.

I've got 2 MS HD cable sets, and 1 monster cable set. (the first MS one was giving me grief (the R component signal degraded even though they never were moved...). I got the second one cuz I got it stupid-cheap through a buddy.

Since I have 2 HDTVs, I use the monster on the predominant Xbox set, and the MS works for the lesser used set.
16965  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / From time to time I wish I was Master Chief on: October 27, 2004, 09:23:50 PM
and this fits into console gaming how ??

Buncha freaks.


<sigh> It's good to feel like I'm at home again.
16966  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / GTA: SA Impressions on: October 27, 2004, 03:34:18 AM
Quote from: "stimpy"
Umm...seeing as how the MODERATOR brought this subject up in this thread, I thought it would be o.k. to ask the question here.

 :oops:  my fault. I didn't realize your GTA:SA ran in your dvd player. slywink

As to getting the most out of your PS2 system, get component video. Most games are 480i, but the signal will be clearer so you still get something out of it, even if you're not getting a truly "better" picture.

Your RCA should have 2 Component inputs (if you have 3 you're lucky), and either a shared or 3rd plug for the DVI connection. You're not going to find a DVI that I know of (for any of the 3 systems you mentioned), so component is your best bet. Personally, I'd be getting the Xbox on one of those connections as some games will actually output HD signal. The DVD player will only do 480p (if it's a proscan DVD player, if not and you only have 2 compinent inputs I'd suggest using Svideo). The PS2 will *not* do HD, but it will do 480p for DVD.
Get optical connection to your 5.1 surround reciever. If you don't have one, you're stuck with two channel sound (and then either your TV or sound processor on your reciever will have to fake it).
Check out Console gold's search engine to find games with hi res...
Console Gold Search
A secondary search

Hope that helps smile
16967  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / GTA: SA Impressions on: October 27, 2004, 03:15:38 AM
Stimpy. start a new thread. We'll help out; but not in this thread. smile

Did you buy GTA: SA yet? How do you enjoy it?
16968  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / GTA: SA Impressions on: October 27, 2004, 03:05:27 AM
Quote from: "weeskwee"
you said TRUE DAT?! shit! that alone makes anything you say look like "bwa whaaa graaa fughahhhhh...."

by the way, your extensive investigative reporting against IGN scoring makes me think your beef with them is something beyond normal. i skipped over it after 2 paragraphs because it looks like misguided ranting and paranoia.

Why would you bother quoting two messages back in a thread that you readily admit to glazing over? paranoid

Let me reiterate the most important line : I don't think the xbox titles should be rated higher; I subtract .2 to .3 from IGN PS2 reviews to get the "right" score. I don't object to SA being rated higher than previous GTA's; I just have a hard time with the 9.9 rating. Another .1 and we'd have the second coming. There are NO other games in the history of IGN (for Xbox, PS2 or Gamecube) that have rated at, or higher than this game. That sets a precedent.

As to the True Dat; I was changing the topic, and trying to be lighthearted. slywink Per AGTFox, let's move on.
16969  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / GTA: SA Impressions on: October 27, 2004, 01:07:49 AM
Quote from: "AgtFox"
I'm thinking we need to spin off the IGN talk to another topic.  So, start up another thread while we keep this to impressions from people who have played the game so people on the fence can make a more informed decision.

true dat. I hope its fun; I'm looking forward to playing it when the exclusivity contract is up. Costs too much to maintain a PC, an Xbox and everything else that life throws my way. Plus, my next 3 months are way too busy with all the A to AAA titles coming out.
16970  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / GTA: SA Impressions on: October 27, 2004, 12:55:32 AM
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Isn't IGN one of the those places that will rate PS2 versions higher due to the limits of the system- ie since GTA was designed for the PS2 it gets more of a break on graphics than if it had been an Xbox design.  I don't neccessarily agree with the distinction but I think that has more to do with it instead of some sort of Sony payout.


 9.3   Presentation
GTA III lays down the ground work with slow jazz, great dialogue and funny one-liners; GTA: VC takes the story to another level.    
  8.6   Graphics
GTA III is huge and an impressive piece of technology, but not without its flaws; GTA: VC is slightly better, with a glossy, brighter look, but still suffers from the same problems.    
  9.8   Sound
GTA III is brilliant in its own way, with Italian classics, etc., but GTA: VC is the motherload. An amazing soundtrack. Both have excellent and mature dialogue.    
  9.6   Gameplay
Some of the best racing, fighting, shooting, and everything in between in one game. More vehicles in GTA: VC, a deeper storyline and a stronger lead character make this worth it.    
  9.9   Lasting Appeal
There are few games as deep with replay value as either GTA III or GTA VC, so you're covered here for like 200 or more hours.    
 9.7  OVERALL:
(out of 10 / not an average)  
10.0   Presentation
There's more cinematic quality in these games now that there's lip-synching during cutscenes.    
  8.0   Graphics
The improved visuals put the PS2 versions to shame, but Xbox games in 2003, even ports, have lofty standards to live up to.    
  9.0   Sound
The surround sound is well done, but it's all about the custom soundtracks you can put in your own gangster adventure.    
  9.0   Gameplay
The innovators of free-flowing action games are still fun after all these years. The new control scheme is splendid too.    
  10.0   Lasting Appeal
Anything this fun that also comes in pairs usually costs a lot more than fifty dollars.    
 9.4  OVERALL:
(out of 10 / not an average)  
Then explain the doublepack difference, with the Xbox version getting a complete overhaul. It doesn't add up, and it's not just in the graphics area.
They change their numbers around to compensate. Look at the improvements. I mean really, dolby 5.1 with lipsynch and custom soundtracks... and it rates LOWER than with only dolby 5.1 in the cutscenes, no lip synch and no custom tracks. WTF??

Oh, and the improved controls and faster load times with no annoying popup to launch your bike over a garbage truck that materialized outta nowhere. A 9.0 is an improved score over  9.6.

They are a company; as such they're not providing consistancy except in the discrepancy between xbox and ign favori.. err, ps2 results.

I don't think they should rate xbox games better; I always subtract .2-.3 for any ps2 titles. it seems to fit. <shrug>
16971  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / GTA: SA Impressions on: October 27, 2004, 12:42:25 AM
Quote from: "weeskwee"


First of all, you've undermined yourself. By shouting, I don't look at the text; I just see "Bwah Wah Bwahwabwa" (Charlie Brown's muted trumpet sound).

So, calm down, pull up a comfy seat, and discuss in a calm and collected fashion.

I put forth that IGN reviewers are biased and seedy people with lined pockets and bad haircuts. K, the bad haircuts may be going over the top. maybe.

Now, 60+ hours in a game is all fine and dandy, but that is a 9.9, my friend. .1 from perfect. Games get slammed for releasing the same game will only minor increments, and even if this game is bigger, better and has more options, it's standing on the shoulders of a giant. So to even get the SAME score means they have to put out. Splinter Cell 2 didn't get as high a score as SC1, and it added a revolutionary multiplayer component, among a host of other improvements. And a new story. etc, etc etc.

Here's a well-loved game to illustrate the point :
PS2 -Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3  Sports   9.7  
PS2 -Tony Hawk's Underground  Sports   9.5  
PS2 -Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4  Sports   9.3  
PS2 -Tony Hawk's Underground 2  Sports   8.6  
or. for you 'box'ers:
XBX -Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3  Sports   9.5  
XBX -Tony Hawk's Underground  Sports   9.2  
XBX -Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4  Sports   9.0  
XBX -Tony Hawk's Underground 2  Sports   8.4  

New and improved (added. whatever) doesn't mean you get a higher number. Pro Skater 3 kicks the crap out of the newest 3 versions.

Secondly, Sony has a hand in the IGN Editors pockets, if you get my drift. PS2 scores seem to always come out higher, even though they lose on the head-to-heads almost consistantly. On xbox, GTA:SA would have surely gotten a 9.7 or less.

Here's a bizarre twist :
PS2 - Grand Theft Auto Double Pack  Action Adventure   9.7  
XBX - Grand Theft Auto Double Pack  Action Adventure   9.4
On the head-to-head :


Final Verdict
You might ask, "Why bother? Why even stack the clearly older PS2 version against the new Xbox update?" It's true, Xbox did win in pretty much every category and you probably could have surmised this without reading this feature. But, the Double Pack is new for both consoles and there were differences to learn about. Xbox's control advantages, custom soundtracks, and overall better presentation do make it a clearly better choice than the PS2 version.

But, in that same vein of thinking, the disadvantages the PS2 Double Pack has are nothing that will sully the experience.

In other words, go Xbox if you have both consoles. If not, you're not missing too much if you decide on the PS2 version, which is a better value at $39.99.

Overall Winner: Xbox

Winner Ranking:
1. Xbox
2. PlayStation 2

- Best version for single player: Xbox (control; minor advantage)
- Best version for videophiles: Xbox (more complex graphics, HDTV support; medium advantage)
- Best version for audiophiles: Xbox (in-game Dolby Digital, custom soundtracks; medium advantage)
- Best value/price: PlayStation 2 ($39.99; medium advantage)

Pardon? What's that? The only reason the bundle is given any  consideration is because of a $40 price point and was released 2 weeks earlier than the Xbox version. Plus, it's a bundle of two games everyone already owns on that system. With no improvements, it's a far cry from the product released on the xbox a scant 14 days later. Y'no the one, with the custom soundtracks, improved graphics, faster load times, and the little imp that pops out of the disk to wipe your butt for you while you play on the toilet? It got .3 less than the same old PS2 versions. For two new games. Released on that platform for the first time. Ever. Did I mention it got 9.7? Over 9.4 for xbox? Y'no, the remastered directors cut ultimate version? No? I could have sworn I'd mentioned it.

Lets look at some more numbers :
Samurai Warriors    Action   8.5 vs XBX -  7.4   -1.1
Dynasty Warriors 4  Action   8.6 vs XBX - 8.5  -0.1
Dynasty Warriors 3  Action   8.5 vs XBX - 6.8  -1.7

Now, the Xbox versions run faster and have (at the very least) sound improvements over the PS2 versions (don't even *try* to dispute this one; I've played all six extensively). There are other major features (such as getting unlocked officers as bodyguards in DW3) The only argument is time release, but that is not the game at fault, and given the tech improvements the 3-6 month difference in negligable.

I've not submitted the Tony Hawk games for this example; although online and face components for THUG are bonuses that *might* be worthy of +.2, I'm thinking it has *nothing* to do with it. both online market and camera markets are niche, and although online is definately blooming I can't say it outweighs playing the game with comparatively no jaggies. (720p in widescreen... booyah ... I'm sure the HDTV market is bigger than the Eyetoy market)

A quick look at all IGN games rated higher than 9.5 : (Xbox and PS2):

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas  Action Adventure   9.9  
Gran Turismo 3 A-spec  Racing Simulation   9.8  
Halo: Combat Evolved  Shooter   9.7  
Grand Theft Auto Double Pack  Action Adventure   9.7  
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City  Action Adventure   9.7  
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty  Action   9.7  
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3  Sports   9.7  
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time  Action Adventure   9.6  
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell  Adventure   9.6  
Devil May Cry  Action Adventure   9.6  
Grand Theft Auto III  Action Adventure   9.6  
Twisted Metal: Black  Shooter   9.6  

the doublepack xbox version doesn't even make the list.

Bastards. :/
16972  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Half-Life2 to require internet connection on: October 26, 2004, 04:03:20 PM
Quote from: "warning"
I'm going to send this over to Road to Gold as HL2 has not yet been released.

how about posting it on the frontpage too? slywink
16973  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Half-Life2 to require internet connection on: October 26, 2004, 03:57:02 PM
Yeah, here's a snip:

"All versions require an Internet connection upon installation" to prove the legitimacy of a player's copy, Lombardi said. "This is for authentication/anti-piracy purposes. Once this has been completed, the owner of either the retail or the Steam version can play Half-Life 2 single player in offline mode."

Check it out...
16974  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / HALO 2 OXM Review on: October 26, 2004, 01:30:27 PM
Quote from: "Lockdown"
Now I need a "vomiting" Emoticon please.

 puke = : puke : or just check out

16975  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / HALO 2 OXM Review on: October 26, 2004, 12:57:07 PM
Instructions for Phantom Dust
16976  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / GTA: SA Impressions on: October 26, 2004, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: "Devil"
LE - Sorry if I come across like someone who isn't enjoying this game at the very early stages but... I'm not.

I'm here posting because I got so pissed of that I didn't want to play anymore.

This may be the greatest game ever made but I don't see where I have to like it.

I'm not being counter culture and I've yet to hear someone say that I'm wrong. The graphics are bad (not such a big deal), the controls are clunky and the first mission is stupid.

I WANT to like this game. Not sure I would have, pre-paid in full, bought the guide, and gone back to EB a second time today to pick it up if I hadn't wanted to like the game.

You guys know me better.

So LE is involved in the counter-counter-backlash culture (how DARE you question a product I love?) slywink

There is no reason for you to feel the need to justify your impressions. For me, the game isn't even on my "will rent" list until it's for PC or Xbox. I have access to a PS2, but since the last two games didn't impress me that much, I'd have to say that the Bards Tale or DOA get a higher anticipation rating from me.

IGN : 9.9? that's .1 from being PERFECT. A lot of posts here have had to put qualifiers on their "this is great" statement.

 Since IGN doesn't generally award 9.7-10.0 (perfect) scores, I'd say they've rated it .2 to high. I dunno, it's just me. I *will* likely play about an hour or so, but I'm not running out to get me a PSTwo for this game.
16977  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Yourself! Fitness on: October 24, 2004, 04:35:35 AM
Quote from: "maggie-chow"
I have the game, wife uses it.  She goes to the gym, but this gives her a simalcrum of a personal trainer.  

Wish there were more choices for a trainer than just Maya, though.

you just wanted to use the word simulacrum. slywink

I might consider renting this one. I've got a damned fine gym workout, but having a relatively cheap 2nd opinion on the weight loss / upper body workout can only help.
16978  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Paging Purge!! on: October 24, 2004, 04:29:24 AM
Quote from: "flyinj"
Think of this as playing Quake3 with mouse sensitivity really low, and mouse acceleration on. Personally, as a kb/mouse lover, I'd never touch this thing... sounds more frustrating than even using a controller.

You can't say yuck until you try some of this delicious broccoli. Now eat up. Tongue

Actually, mine was shipped from HK on friday, so I expect it heartbeats before Halo2 is in my hands. As to the accelleration thing, have you tried playing Halo 1 with the vert and horiz acceleration cranked? the response time is pretty quick... but then you lose precision... that's what this is supposed to fix. It's not like I'm installing a 3000dpi Razor Boomslang and somehow magically having an unreal response.

Simply put, it's an alternative. I've heard (far too often) from die-hard PC gamers that the downfall of consoles is controls. Now lets just see if that is the case. IF the performance grade (IE response time, accelleration) is the same, will the mouse/kbd be better or worse? I enjoy my controllerS, but I'd like to see the other side of the fence (on an Xbox).
16979  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Paging Purge!! on: October 23, 2004, 01:01:18 AM
I don't have mine yet, however IGN got their hands on it.

The SmartJoy FRAG is somewhat of a hard unit to review and give an overall score to. On the one hand, it's built well and has some smart and easy configuration features. On the other hand, how well it works control-wise is almost entirely dependent upon the game you're playing.

The way we figure it is that if you own more than one first-person shooter on either PS2 or Xbox, you'd do yourself well by picking one up. It works great with some of the best software on either system, especially Halo (and presumably its sequel) on Xbox. And you gamers out there looking forward to Killzone should pick up the PS2 version as it'll do you well in your killing of zones.

9 for value. 8.5 overall.

16980  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Ninja Gaiden is way hard on: October 23, 2004, 12:56:09 AM
actually, the bosses get easier, although the average enemies get way harder.

Want a quick way to make a lot of money in the game? I've got a "cheat" as it were... (developed myself).

There's a point at which you're in the sewers, and there's a tunnel you fall down (just before the first electrical worm). It looks like a chimney and it's filled with ~10 bats.

Now, this exploits 3 different elements.

1) charged up combos (using the floating essence) increases the multiplier on the essence found (and ensures it's all yellow essence).

2) Bats respawn when you've gone far enough away.

3) Damage taken from bats does not interrupt your charge.

Equip normal shuriken and vigooran flail.

So what you do is fall to the bottom of the chimney, and run away from the bats till you get to the clearing.

Turn around and head back to the bottom of the chimney, and throw 2 shuriken (one at a time, don't throw more than 2). Two bats die, and you can max your essence charge. Now charge up, and wait until all the bats from the chimney swarm above you... there should be 10 at a time, but you won't see all of them at once. I suggest waiting until you've been hit 4 times. (STILL HOLDING CHARGE). Now, unleash. BOOM! x9 combo and big essence. You could pick it up, OR throw one shuriken and hold down charge again (pulling the big essence and the little one to get a full combo hit. You get 3 sets of bats, and then head out to the clearing, and repeat the whole process over. In under 45 min I was able to max out my essence twice and buy all items / upgrades, including the wooden sword. slywink
16981  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Best Game Of All Time Tournament - CG Edition on: October 20, 2004, 04:48:59 PM
In no particular order :

Half-Life (incl. counterstrike)
Rainbow 6
Ultima VII and pt 2
Wing Commanders 1-3 (and privateer).
16982  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / [PR - XBOX] "Halo 2" Makes Entertainment History on: October 20, 2004, 02:56:24 PM
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
I never said the 1.5 million was store pre-orders- I know its customer pre-orders.  I was just referencing a press release regarding Vice City that had trumpted 4 million preorders which turned out to be shipping numbers to the stores.

Then we agree. smile

Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
The watermark should be within the same industry.  The dynamics between the motivating factor for someone to spend $10 on a movie ticket and that for causing people to spend $50 on a game and in some cases $150 plus on the system to play it on are completely different and don't warrant comparison outside of the nebulous "they're both in the entertainment industry."

I can see your point; here is mine.

I suggest that since a human beings mind cannot quantify any number larger than a roughly a thousand (everything beyond that mark is not measurable by quantity, only in mathematical concept) that it would be hard to show the impact of 1.5 million presells.

Let me use the gaming industries earnings from 2002. approx 9 Billion dollars. Nine. Niiiiine. Neun. Neuf (for the french pirates).

How much is 9 billion dollars?
Given* that a US thousand dollar bill is approx .1mm (or** 0.003937 inches)
A stack of 1000 thousand dollar bills (1million) = 3.937 inches
A billion would therefore be 3937 inches, or 328 feet
Take nine of those to equal 2952.75 feet,
At a generous 9 feet per storey (it actually is more like 8 feet, but whatever) adds up to 328 storeys.
This translates to 3 stacks of thousand dollar bills being slightly taller than the empire states building***.

3 stacks, side-by-side.
King Kong (approx width of palm 36 inches wide) is swatting at the airplanes, and palms a cool 27.3 million with every swing. (3 x 9.1mil for 36 inches per stack)

A lot easier to measure the money against something you're familiar with, like a popular movie you've gone to see twice, and so have all your friends.

For reference :

Keep in mind that money is packed TIGHT. No spaces. It's like each stack is a giant 2x4. It's frickin HUGE. I'd like to have 4.5 inches of that stack, Hell, I'd be happy with .003937 inches worth right now. slywink
16983  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Any Final Fantasy XI players here? on: October 20, 2004, 02:33:36 AM
I used to play, but no more.

Phoenix server, Stabbetty. <sigh>
16984  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: REFURB PS2 on: October 20, 2004, 02:31:59 AM
I agree with both of your statements. The clean and lube tends to fix PS2s for a while, but it seems they need it every so often afterwards. My buddy who works for a rental place go through a 3rd party (some guy in a basement, or in a van down by the river) to fix em; generally it's cleaning. If it's replacement parts it goes back to the customer; Sony doesn't licence anybody to fix them.

MS has you ship em to them and they fix it. IF you talk nice, you could get it done free of charge. In canada they don't offer the extended warranty, so it's the easiest "in".
16985  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / R&P Decision on: October 20, 2004, 02:23:04 AM
Quote from: "Hrothgar"
I think when you reasonably say, "I want a place where I can hang out with gamers, talk games, but also feel free to discuss anything."  I don't imagine Ron thinking "I don't want to give them that, but I'd hate to lose them."  I'd suggest CG's thinking was more along the lines of, "Yeah, that is the kind of place we want to have.  We just don't want bile and name calling.  If clear and firm forum moderation can give us that, we should reword the rules to more accurately reflect what we want in a forum."

Naw, KD is an ass. He'd be thinkin' column A.  :\


just kiddin' Ron. Please don't ban me. slywink
I just couldn't let that one go. biggrin
16986  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / XBOX-HDTV help needed on: October 20, 2004, 01:48:04 AM
Quote from: "Punisher"
Well, I broke down and called the monitor company. Turns out that the monitor does NOT support HDTV, which was just a poor assumption on my part. So off to Best Buy to get a replacement....

might I suggest a new TV set?
16987  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Halo 2 - Will it support Widescreen? on: October 20, 2004, 01:41:50 AM
16988  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / [PR - XBOX] "Halo 2" Makes Entertainment History on: October 20, 2004, 01:38:11 AM
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Actually, I remember Vice City being about as low-key hype wise as San Andreas- the franchise sells itself at this point. All the customer needs to know is "new GTA, Oct __".  As long as Rockstar delivers a stellar game mega-sales are assured.  Pouring more money into marketing becomes a law of diminishing returns once you've saturated the market with respect to awareness.  That's my point wrt to Halo 2- at this stage I don't think they need any more hype.  I'm sure they have 100% awareness among Xbox owners and in 90s for those with other consoles.  

They did advertise Vice City as having four million pre-orders but  that was as in preorders froms stores, not customers.  I'm pretty sure Zelda: Wind Waker had the record for actual customer pre-orders prior to Halo 2 with approx 750k or so.  

While Xbox may be the underdog in the console race, Halo is not an underdog of a franchise.  The only console games this generation to sell more are the GTAs and Gran Turismo 3.  They've sold 3.5 million copies and counting of the original.

Re-read my post above : i was putting the rant in to reply to the rest of the thread and found the link. biggrin

As to keeping low key, remember that Sony has saturated the market with PS2s... Microsoft has not. Halo2 *will* be a system seller, regardless of whether it motivates you personally or not.

The number (1.5 mil) is the number of *customers* in the states alone. (not the shipping volume). MS quashed the 1mil mark 2 weeks ago because that was shipping volume not presells. Now they're stating they have 1.5mil US customer presells. Seems to me they're satisfying the public interest that the original news broadcast, *NOT* press release, generated.

I'm in canada, my 2 pre-orders don't count to that number. (one for my bro and one for myself). I hate media spin as much as the next hominid, and the cold thing is kinda lame, but they've got a point.

As to the movie comparison, you need a watermark, and the only thing close in the entertainment industry is movies. It's a 5:1 ratio for value ... 10 for a movie, 50 for a game. Easy math. Since the marketplace for games in the US is in the 30million mark, it's a far cry from the 5:1 ratio to 295Mil US citizens who can attend movies.

If I had a nickel for every time a person pre-ordered Halo2 (in the US) I'd have 75,000 in my pocket.

That's a lot of effen nickels.
16989  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / [PR - XBOX] "Halo 2" Makes Entertainment History on: October 20, 2004, 01:17:58 AM
Quote from: "Kevin Grey"
Maybe I'm missing the press releases, but GTA:SA will likely eclispse Halo 2 in sales yet I haven't seen similar comparisons for SA and it releases in a week.

By market footprint they should (as sony has touted 70 mil units shipped, 4 to 1 friend of mine ... 3 replacements .. Tongue ).

You know, I *do* distinctly remember this same crap two years ago with Vice City; MS is taking a page from the industry leaders. I remember VC having a whopping 4 million presells. Don't believe me? Check this link out... . If they're keeping it quiet, it's likely not due to the lack of presells; it's more likely they're tired of being in the news.

If the underdog can boast, on a smaller footprint, the fact that they can get 1.5 mil out before the first day, let em. I don't know if this was initially their idea to push the hype, or if that questionable news publication two weeks ago had something to do with it (the one where they had "supposedly" presold a million copies but never confirmed this with MS).

As to the single vs multi arguement; the multi is where the replay value comes in. Since I don't wanna hear one frickin' iota of the single player story (I'm 3 weeks from seeing it with my own eyes) I have to say I'm glad the multiplayer is in the spotlight.

SETA Rantmode 1

As to the pirates... unless you're fluent in french, the entire games' dialog, therefore the atmosphere, becomes irrelevant. Watching a movie with the sound off would certainly have that "not worth the hype" feel to it.

Buncha dumb pirate whiners. They stole the cake, and forgot to get the icing. Now they want milk. Now they want cookies. Wah, wah, wah. Suck it up, buttercup.
SETA Rantmode 0

As to the game in question, I don't think Halo2 is the second coming. Well, maybe it *is* the second coming of Master Chief, but that's besides the point. It's a highly anticipated game that has more than 1.5 million people willing to ante up the moolah to make sure they play it before the fat man gets stuck in their chimney. I know my EB has 400+ presells... I don't doubt that the midnight opening is going to be stupid-crazy.

And yes, I booked time off (nov 11 is a legislated holiday where I live for Remembrance Day) and so I'm taking friday off for Halo2. Better than racking up the sick days.
16990  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / XBOX-HDTV help needed on: October 19, 2004, 03:50:34 PM
Quote from: "EngineNo9"
Other than that, my only other suggestion is to try the official HiDef pack for the video output from the XBox.

I don't think there's a difference. I have both, and the Monster has a better picture (very minor difference, but it's there) ... it's likely due to the breakout box design of the HiDef cables.

As far as your problem with the splitscreen is concerned, I'd suggest (while in the dashboard) to hold down both triggers and press in the two joysticks. this will force the display into 480p mode, as your component in may not accept interlaced signal.

To clarify : There are 4 modes we're talking about.
480i (480 lines, interlaced) - 240 lines drawn per frame - standard output
480p (480 lines, progressive scan) -  480 lines drawn per frame - better output, DVD progressive scan uses this.
720p (720 lines, progressive scan) - 720 lines drawn per frame - HDTV signal, 24bit color, 60fps, is well implemented for sports broadcasts due to the higher framerate.
1080i - (1080 lines interlaced) - 540 lines drawn per frame - 32bit color, 30 frames per second. Both 1080i and 720p use the same bandwidth, where 1080i has a higher resolution but is interlaced and refreshes slower, the color depth is better.

I personally prefer 720p to 1080i display. Amped2 and Xmen Legends are two very well done HD games.
16991  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Would you buy a refrub ps2? on: October 19, 2004, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
There are horror stories about evey system, but honestly, it's a case of the vocal minority and the toxin-enhancing aspects of the internet.  You'd think rogue XBoxes and PS2s were out there slaying and feasting upon the corpses of the unfaithful.

Actually, I'm referring to the PS2 on this. It has the same production problems that the PS1 had (read-head problems). One person I know is on his 4th, I know 3 others who are on their 2nd and third, respectively.  (know in person, not nebulous people on the 'net ... and NO, not "know" in the biblical sense)

I'm on my second xbox (my first one is still up and running; sold to my bro-in-law so I could get a translucent green).

I'm not oblivious to the plight of poor quality on the MS side either; but the margins are not the same, IMHO. slywink  

(yes, the H in IMHO is facetious)  unibrow
16992  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / [PR - XBOX] "Halo 2" Makes Entertainment History on: October 19, 2004, 02:12:27 PM
"Halo 2" Makes Entertainment History as Global Anticipation Builds

Record-Shattering Preorders Set Tone for Holiday

REDMOND, Wash. -- Oct. 19, 2004 -- There hasn't been this much anticipation for an otherworldly touchdown since Neil Armstrong first walked on the moon. With three weeks to go before the game hits store shelves, pre-orders for "Halo® 2" -- the highly anticipated Xbox® exclusive from Microsoft Game Studios -- have eclipsed the 1.5 million mark in the United States. With phenomenal record-breaking video game pre-orders, "Halo 2" is poised to generate more revenue in 24 hours than day one sales of any full feature movie in entertainment history, including "Spider-man 2," "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban" and "Matrix: Reloaded."

In the U.S., the anticipation builds to a fever pitch on Nov. 9 when thousands of shoppers line up to be among the first to get their hands on the action-packed thriller. The first copy of "Halo 2" will be distributed at a Midnight Madness event at the largest Toys "R" Us in the world located in Times Square, New York. Toys "R" Us Times Square will open its doors at 12 midnight on November 9, and deliver the first retail copy of the game to a lucky fan.

"The original 'Halo' is still a top ten title three years after it hit shelves, and the buzz for the sequel is off the charts," said John Barbour, president, Toys "R" Us, U.S. "We can think of no more appropriate place to unveil 'Halo 2' than the site Xbox first launched--Toys "R" Us Times Square."

More than 6,500 U.S. participating retailers*- including Gamestop, EB Games, Best Buy, Gamecrazy, Game Rush, Circuit City, Kmart Super Center stores and FYE, will open their doors at 12:01 a.m. on Tuesday, Nov. 9 to allow for sales of "Halo 2," Xbox consoles and Xbox Live TM Starter Kits.

The global launch of "Halo 2" will also be marked by celebrations from November 9 through November 11 at more than 1,125 retail stores in cities around the world including London, Seoul, Toronto and Sydney. "Halo 2" will be translated into seven languages (Japanese, Korean, traditional Chinese, Spanish, French, German and Italian) and will be distributed in 27 countries.

"'Halo 2' is expected to be the biggest 24 hours for a video game title in retail history and is projected to bring in more revenue than any day one box office blockbuster movie in the United States," said Peter Moore, corporate vice president of worldwide publishing and marketing for Xbox. "We call it the Halo 2 effect. We've even heard rumors of fan anticipation of the 'Halo 2 flu' on November 9."

"Halo 2," the follow up to the marquee Xbox title, "Halo: Combat Evolved," was selected for the Toys "R" Us Joy List as one of the expected top sellers this holiday season. "Halo 2" utilizes Xbox Live to redefine online play, delivering superior online multiplayer capabilities, which allow gamers to engage with or against friends from around the world in an effort to save humankind.

Developed exclusively for Xbox by Bungie Studios, part of Microsoft Game Studios, the original "Halo" has sold more than 5 million copies worldwide and spawned a legion of powerful devotees who participate in competitions, tournaments and game nights.
16993  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: October 19, 2004, 12:11:58 AM
16994  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Rate X-Men Legends for single player on: October 18, 2004, 11:41:15 PM
Quote from: "Dimmona"
Normally I sport huge wood for any 720p game... but I have the Gamecube version :-(

Shoulda read the back of the xbox version, buddy. Tongue

slywink teasin' ya..
16995  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Would you buy a refrub ps2? on: October 18, 2004, 11:38:17 PM
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Rob_Merritt"
Well see, that the problem. Unless you count the pc( and I DO have a backlog of games there) I don't have a current console. Don't own a ps2, my xbox is giving dirty disk errors on everything, and my Gamecube is monopolized by the kids.
I'd trade the XBox toward a new PSTwo.

and then pay for new games and lose value on your existing Xbox library... i dunno, sounds fishy.

I've known people to go through 4 ps2s in 3 years... I'm not sure their manufacturing has improved with the PSWafer.

We'll see, I guess. From other threads I seem to recall you not liking your xbox though; if it's for the errors then go for a new xbox. If for the games, PSTwo is a no-brainer. smile
16996  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Paging Purge!! on: October 18, 2004, 11:28:17 PM
still waiting. It's on backorder at Lik-Sang.

I'll post a thread when I get it! smile
16997  Non-Gaming / Hardware / Software Hell / two wireless mice on same desk? on: October 18, 2004, 08:04:50 PM
I'd suggest buying an MS mouse.. they have high production values, and is unlikely to conflict. I know that MS wireless devices allow multiple devices to sync with one pod, so they use different channels.

I have an old Logitech wireless 3 button mouse and it had a sync button. You might be sweatin' bullets for nothing. Pick one up from Costco, try it out, and return it if you have problems. (at least in Canada, Costco will take back ANYTHING with little question except software)
16998  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Great Feedback on: October 18, 2004, 07:50:42 PM
Quote from: "Eliot"

Crimson Skies
Burnout 3
Any other suggestions in that price range?

And, mandatory accessories?

The advanced a/v pack?
Is the Xbox wireless capable out of the box or do you need a wireless access point to run the wireless controller


Get the best adapter(s) you can get.[/u]
Monster Cable (slightly higher prod values) > Microsoft > all other 3rd party cables > Mad Catz
Component video > SVideo > Composite > RF
Optical audio = SPDIF > RCA's ( I don't know of any SPDIF for Xbox though, both Monster and MS use the optical on their cables)

At least one more controller. If you need a DVD player get the kit; if you have one, don't bother wasting the money for the Xbox.

If you have highspeed internet, I'd suggest running a CAT5 cable to your xbox (or going wireless) and wait for Halo 2. Get the one with the headset; I'm sure it comes with a couple of months worth of free service.

Actually, you should just check out the following threads for game recommendations :
I need to Quit my Job ...
Xbox Collection Recommendations
16999  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Console and PC on: October 18, 2004, 07:38:28 PM
I love both, but the effect of sitting around on the couch with friends playing games goes far beyond playing online with people on a PC.

don't get me wrong, I've got my HL2 preorder and have a 3.0 Intel HT system with a 9800 pro, but I find game playing on the PC has fallen to the wayside.

This is coming from someone who's played since the Vic20, and Dos 3.3 games. A couple years back I was hosting 30+ person langames in my basement (16 port 100bt switch back when they cost $300+).

I've played consoles since the Atari system. I wasn't impressed with the games on consoles as much as PC games (I mean, Ultima 7... wow. Were did the quality&length go nowadays??) and now the PC games come across with much lower production values, and the variation is very limited. Strategy, MMORPG and FPS are the dominant games on the PC. I agree with the WW2 FPS comment above; it is definately out of style.

Quote from: "Eliot"
Now as I look around there seem to be lots of games avaialable at the mid price point, and like PC games the top titles getting top dollar.

Halflife 2 Collectors edition  :shock:

Quote from: "Eliot"
My only other question before I pull the trigger on EBGames special is how are the graphics holding up? I understand the XBox has a vid card roughly equivalent to a GeForce 3 Ti200.

Given I do not have HDTV, how would readers rate graphics compared to the PC (I have a ATi 9800 pro). Certainly I do not expect on par graphics. I just don't know how much of a come down it will be.

It's slightly better than the GeForce 3 line, and given the developers don't have to mess with hardware incompatibilities, it's a pretty smooth ride. When you see a game push the HD signal it can be a *very* impressive sight. Since most games are 480p (and often widescreen) getting more than just 640x480.

If you've ever considered getting an HDTV, the xbox might just push that button for ya. smile I've got 2 16:9HDTVs, (a 51" Hitachi and a "little" one ...30" Sony VVega for upstairs).  Careful, there's just as much money to spend in  console gaming. slywink, should I buy a Spherex sound system?? (AKA a Mirage Omnipolar system) ...
17000  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Would you buy a refrub ps2? on: October 18, 2004, 07:17:35 PM
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Quote from: "Devil"
Buy a refurb and five $2.00 games and then bring 'em into EB and trade 'em for the new, little PS2.

Best advice in this thread, bar none.

Agreed, if you want a PS2. <shrug> There's so much coming out for (practically) every system that it's almost a waste to buy another console right now. You might be better off putting your money aside for a month and blow it on your existing system. slywink
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