Fails to pull it off. The dog is too tall.

Plus, drink enough and you'll end up looking like Children of the Corn.

[MS has made it clear that they're putting TV/music/etc. first]

As far as specifics go, we don't know a lot about either system.  However, Sony has made it clear that they are putting gaming first with the PS4, while MS has made it clear that they're putting TV/music/etc. first.  I don't think it's surprising that gamers are siding with Sony now.

Their presentation was aimed at non-gamers, and that's exactly the problem.  They weren't watching.  It's the gaming crowd that watches live-streams of console reveals, not people looking for new ways to watch TV.  The vast majority of the people who watched the presentation or even knew it was happening were looking for games, and they didn't get them.  If MS was expecting anything other than the poor reception they got, then they're clueless.

Comment on the emphasis above:
Based on what was announced as a hardware reveal only, people have assumed they're not about games. 15 new exclusive games in one year? That's more than the 360 has seen in the past three, combined (IIRC). Not a bad thing IMO - I think when they left the TV and sports section they should NOT have revisited it a second time. That pushed a serious imbalance, and that's the inference that people pick up on.

Re: the non-gaming world - WSJ, Forbes, etc were watching. Problem is, they're not talking here, and are more likely to react to our reactions - look at the Sony stock situation.

Frankly, neither presentation will matter one lick.

360 overcame dramatic h/w failure rates.
PS3 overcame the largest outage and security breach on any console network.

By the end of E3, both will be neck and neck. I don't expect all answers to be there by the end of E3 either - they've got time to polish things up.


One question I had (I hadn't noticed a decent specs comparison) : does the GPU on the X1 have dedicated RAM or is it shared like it is on the PS4?

When it comes to press releases, MS *is* clueless. IMO, they should have planned a 2 hour presentation, covering both aspects, and it should have been more ... organic?
Overall it wasn't terrible, but if you look at it with gamer-glasses on, there wasn't much to see - there were some cool hints (I commented on some of them during our liveblog).

The natural use of kinect to enhance controller based games - such as the comment where they mention an example of raising the controller to raise a shield - speculatively I think this would translate well to position such as stand, crouch, prone or even selecting how you approach a half-wall when you're at a full run. Push your controller down to slide behind it for cover, or raise it up to vault it.

Consider the racing aspects as well. The PS4's eye camera seems to be behind that particular curve, but we'll just have to see. MAN am I looking forward to E3.

By and far it was Phil's interview that flung the biggest turds into the press fan and ignited gamer disappointment in the presentation to an all-out lynch mob.  They did warn us ahead of time that game details are slated for E3 - they should have muzzled him (in their own best interest).

MO - Hyrb is inferring the license model, not the DVD model.

IE: When you currently buy a game from the XBLA marketplace, you're buying two licenses -

1) Hardware license. This allows anyone on your console that holds this license to play the game.
2) Live profile license. This allows your account to sign in and play the game from any console.

Hope that clears it up - the disc infers license based on possession - and since the new BD discs are install-only (BD discs aren't fast enough to keep up - hence why bigger PS3 games required install in the current gen) this cannot be what he meant.

You mean gamers are the life-force of the market? I think you need to look at the Wii's success and re-evaluate what Microsoft was aiming at. Perhaps you thought MS's presentation was for you - and that would be missing their point.

But I do agree with you that they should have ball-gagged Phil Harrison. It wouldn't surprise me if he was replaced in the near future. His speculation has hurt the product line, no doubt - the presentation from MS was clearly not aimed at gamers, but at their new potential market and it came across as flat. This is also par for the course for MS.

Currently, I'm listening to Mark Cerny as I type this - revisiting the PS4 release. I'm going to see how it holds up - this was from ~10 weeks ago and while it failed to impress me - I'm willing to give it a second look.

It's funny - he's echoing what I just said about courting the developers. Developers hate used games market, because others profit from their work. I can't see PS4 going in that direction.

Not with regards to the points that seem to chafe your shorts on the X1.

How else am i suppossed to form an opinion, they do these shows and i form an opinion anything maybe in the future is wishful thinking atm.

How about don't form an opinion until all the facts are, you know, on the table?

I have no opinion on either the PS4 or XBone at this time.

If a company does a presentation on a long awaited product and doesn't answer people's most important questions, those people have a right to form an opinion. It's called bad marketing and public relations and if it affects sales and/or public perception of the product it's squarely on the shoulders of the company in question.

Wait, what is Sony's stance on used games? Do you need the PS4 Eye toy? Does it work without it?

What does the PS4 look like?

Does it have a power brick?

What connections are on the back of it?

Can it render an old man's head?

Wait, scratch that last one - apparently it can.

My point being, Sony said exactly ZILCH about their gaming model. They've not even shown any console, and at best they showed their new controller. All the hullabaloo regarding licensing aside, MS has shown their interface (you now have a home screen that integrates more than just "games").

Right now I see a lot of comments leaning towards "PS4 [cuz I know what they're offering]". No, no you don't. You know you can share, you know they're working with indie developers to allow them to self-publish.

That, effectively, is all you know. So IMO ATB is right - go ahead and get upset about things said, but don't think that just because Sony hasn't revealed their stuff yet that it's going to be any better than what MS has been willing to say.

According to the link, it's controller based enhanced with Kinect.

In your mothers defense, I can see why you were dropped on your head.

Wasn't the worst president the one with the funky cigar holder?

Sorry bud. I'm the one reviewing it.

I did enjoy the opening intro though - the art design for such a small dev was nice - loved the monster references that they touched on.

Sofar it's one of the better Diablo clones, and I find the "rage" use a bit clunky. I'm not all that far into it yet.
Haven't gotten to the tower defense part of the game yet.

If you promise not to show me your junk, I'd consider some MP time. Hit me up on Steam.

Perfect Dark One.

Get it? Get it?

Cuz the last one was Perfect Dark Zero?

You are smrt.

Not smart enough to know how to respond.

I think CeeKay is sexier than a Voltron powered by current and next-gen consoles.

Yahzee can be funny, but for the most part he just likes saying balls a lot.

Wait, what? So the TV listings function isn't immediately available outside the US. You care about the trending that much? (I'd be in the same boat, being in Canada).

You can still (it seems) pipe in video input and switch between - you just might not be able to get it to change to the channel / show you want by referring to the very Media Center-esque TV listings. We don't know how it works yet - no info on IR controls, and what can and cannot be configured to turn your Smartglass/Kinect/Controller into a full home theater control.

Colour me confused.

Purge is a jerk. I bet he even likes the new Xbone.

The title is misleading - unless budget cuts where why he was breaking in to rape/sodomize her.

It's sad to see that the response times are slow - but according to the targets set (at least here in Canada) the response time should be no more than 8min, 59 seconds. No province has been able to hit that target. Looks like 911 is just a call, and 10+ minutes away.

Here's a better pic with labels:

nice to see they're making sure there is plenty of ventilation

They're called "Fire-holes". Also, the Xbox One comes with it's own designer towel. It has a red ring design, and the words "Floating Chips FTW" embroidered on it. :lol:

I get it - they're trying to overtake CoD. Four maps, new vehicles and weapons, cool.

Fragmenting your online players from day 1?

Kinda retarded.

I'd like to know more about this HDD install requirement.

As it is, my 360 HDD is pretty full (I get a lot of games), and I rarely install them.

I imagine this requirement will limit how many games I can own.

However, it may turn out that with all the cloud whozits and the playing while installing giggitygoo, the games get deleted on rotation (FIFO or whatever) and reinstalled as you need them.  Depending on how instantaneous the play of a new game is, this might not be an issue in the long run.

As I say, I'm curious.

Then there's the question of USB3.0 - it'd be quick enough to install games to - and perhaps that is part-and-parcel with design.

I think that question ain't gonna be addressed by MS until later - perhaps even after E3. I know that my 250GB drive, where I install games on a frequent basis still has 60GB free at the moment. Since the XO drive is 500GB, clearly it won't be an SSD, and I doubt they're going to add DVR functionality beyond the "achievement cam". Too bad, really. It'd be nice to take a smaller, faster drive and upgrade the console.

Wait, why do I want a console over PC again? Oh, right. Sitting on a couch.

It sounds like Europe is going to get screwed by the PS4 launch (no commitment to a 2013 launch).

Actually, recent comments from Sony indicate that they are willing to go to great lengths to make the PS4 widely available in Europe at the same time as the US launch, and that they are perfectly willing to delay the Japanese launch to do so. It's sounding like we'll get it at the same time.

That's awesome news! I don't think that's a front they can stand to leave idle for months.

Perfect Dark One.

Get it? Get it?

Cuz the last one was Perfect Dark Zero?

I'm in Canada. Want me to preorder for you?

It's funny, back in the Where-Can-I-Find-A-Wii-days (&360) I shipped 6 units out to either GT'ers or friends who wanted one and couldn't find any.

It sounds like Europe is going to get screwed by the PS4 launch (no commitment to a 2013 launch).

Microsoft, on the other hand, could just simply ship all their consoles to everywhere BUT Japan and do almost as well as they would if they shipped consoles there.

Perhaps the US site is different than here in Canada. I spoke with my local EB/GS folks, and they had a SKU that I could preorder for PS4.

Gamestop is already taking PS4 pre-orders.

FWIW - there is no statement yet on whether PS4 requires PS4  Eye as well - the Move functionality is built in to the controllers IIRC.

Here's a better pic with labels:



IR out ... so that's likely how they're going to control receiver volumes etc.

Now the question is - is there a way to  output composite, component, SPDIF?

The XO can't simply expect to send the HDMI audio to the receiver, nor can it go through the TV and count on its audio out. So TosLink only?

I did read the whole article - As you can see, its an UPDATE, meaning it wasn't there when I posted.

Yep. It's also something I pointed out yesterday, with Major Nelsons' post above. : shrug :

Not all games on Steam are cheap, and not all games have mods, nor do they all have "control choices" or "customizable graphics". Trust me, I know. I have 288 games at the moment

I'm guessing you have 288 STEAM games because you like many others have taken advantage of all the great sales. Which don't exist to nearly the same degree on consoles.

I have 235 games played on my Live account. This includes some WP7/WP8 games, and certainly a couple are apps such as IE for 360, but I've enjoyed both platforms.

I also have a ton of games on Steam that I would have otherwise not purchased had they not been cheap, and I may never ever play them.

If the XBLA model they're using now is applied to games I can buy, but then trade in to retail, it's still better than the alternative.

So, its confirmed - The Xbox One requires an internet connection at least once every 24 hours.

http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-does-require-internet-connection-cant-play-o-509164109

No. Read the whole article - it is a scenario.

Xbox Live (features) require an Internet connection (sync to cloud, license validation, etc). There is nothing revealed indicating the Xbox One will, in all scenarios, require an Internet connection to work. The rest is speculation.


Rather than belabor the speculation and conclusions drawn from partial info reveal - I'm more curious to determine what ports the XO has.



I only see two HDMI ports, (likely) a Kinect port, power, TosLink, power, and in the middle it looks like two USB3 ports. There is supposedly a peripheral for cable providers that don't support this, (according to a tweet I read yesterday), so that may have a dedicated port.

Not all games on Steam are cheap, and not all games have mods, nor do they all have "control choices" or "customizable graphics". Trust me, I know. I have 288 games at the moment. But that is beside the point. My point was that the license behaves like Steam, or as I put it above, the XBLA marketplace FOR YEARS. Except that they have plans to allow you to sell games - but there will be a kickback to the game makers for that transaction.


These points have been confirmed:
 - If the account holder who owns the license is signed into the console, then their login allows access.
 - If the console with the original install then it will run for any account on that console.

These have not:
 - Does the console need to have connectivity to validate?
 - Does it need to be constantly connected in either scenario to work, or will cached credentials work?
 - How does XO handle both situations simultaneously eg owner signed in on second console, secondary account on orig.install console fires up game at the same time?

PS4 hasn't even spoken on this subject yet - in fact, they rescinded any clarification and at this time may not even support ANY used gaming.

So clearly, they're the better choice if you want used games.

[there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile.]

Then you misunderstand. You don't pay a fee _if you're signed in_ on your friends' PC.

Confirmed by Major Nelson.

We know there is some confusion around used games on Xbox One and wanted to provide a bit of clarification on exactly what we’ve confirmed today. While there have been many potential scenarios discussed, today we have only confirmed that we designed Xbox One to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail.

Beyond that, we have not confirmed any specific scenarios.

Another piece of clarification around playing games at a friend’s house – should you choose to play your game at your friend’s house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile.

People understand how DLC and digital downloads work. Have you ever loaned a friend your DLC or your copy of Minecraft 360?  How is mentioning that even relevant?

... and when have you bought an "Install only" PC game, which chances are has a license key, and then lend it to a friend?

Install is install. The game discs are no longer a standalone product that simply proves ownership based on possession. So yeah ... Steam is the same bloody thing, except when you're done with a game, there is no way to recoup money and pass the game license on. IIRC, PS4 has yet to confirm that used games will play on the PS4. If there is something newer, then I missed it - there was a comment made earlier, but then rescinded by Sony.

I think maybe some people watched a different PS4 reveal - from some of the creepy comments re: Kinect integration, the Sony Eye may or may not also be required - Sony hasn't revealed that information yet - but it also does face recognition, etc.

The Sony PS4 reveal was unimpressive (to me, at least) and since PS3 sales (at the onset) were significantly boosted because it was the most affordable BD player at the time, I'm not understanding the backlash WRT MS going after the multimedia aspect of a product line that has always been targeting the entire entertainment experience. Yeah, more games. I get that - but from a user perspective, the interface and the benefits seem well thought out.

Conversely, their presentation was lukewarm at best, but that doesn't say anything of the product itself. I think their next task is to funnel all questions through a clear, simple and consistent message. They need to stay away from anything that smells of smoke and mirrors.

but if you wanted to play the game on his profile..even while you who has already paid for the game is in the same pissing room,you need to pay

Dude, 360 does the same with *all* DLC. The original console installed with the license allows you to play under any id. If it is not the original license install, your account has to be signed in to access it.

Eg:  I got a slim, and took the console and RB out to the lake (wet and rainy forecast). I had already downloaded some new songs,and copied the data over. Well, the only data that worked (since I was offline) were the newest songs.

This is an example from 2 years ago. If you weren't aware, now you are. Delete your ps3 profile and watch all your psn contentstop working.



Sent from my RM-820_nam_canada_200 using Board Express

MS is doing themselves no service by making it a mystery right now.

I totally agree.

I suspect they're enjoying the fact that they are some of the biggest news right now, and will alleviate concerns with the disclosure. They couldn't say ANYTHING right now without people jumping all over them.

I'm now looking at my 360 and realizing it's going to be around for a while; at least until I can finish up my backlogs, and even then I'll likely have it so my son can continue to play Minecraft on it.

aha, here's the bit about the Kinect being required.

I disconnect mine because my Kinect thinks I'm talking to it all the time.  Seriously, it's the most nosy device in my home.  Talking to my wife while playing turns into fits of frustration with the Kinect. 

Stop calling her Xbox... duh!

Mine sometimes reads movements that aren't happening - the fidelity of the old Kinect would certainly concern me, though seeing the smooth movements onstage makes me hope that isn't just smoke and mirrors with someone using a controller and some well-rehearsed actions.

Move is built-in to the PS4, the Wii Waggle Controls are in the Wii and WiiU. Kinect hardware is required, and has it's own hardware inside the console (per the leaked h/w architecture). The paranoid should be wary - but don't think your PS4 isn't watching either.

From a "TV is HARD" perspective - I'd love to never, ever have to change my receiver and TV inputs again. Also, steady sound would be nice. My DVR doesn't do that well. I'm OK with running it through the XO. I like the idea of being able to plonk myself into a game lobby and wait for ideal situation (eg: waiting for a friend who had to run to the store, etc) and be able to watch TV or media that I have available without having to bounce between inputs and miss out.

As to the name Xbox One isn't any dumber than its contemporaries. Wii, New iPad, WiiU, Playstation 4 (good to see they can count - apparently their console is evolutionary rather than revolutionary). It's a name, it's going to be there, and the console is clearly aimed at being a One stop media center. You know, all-in-one? It's not good, it's not bad. It simply is.

Rather than trashing the presentation, which was clearly aimed at showing what new elements they're bringing to the platform rather than pandering to gamers interests in new IP, they've pushed it off 19 days to (one of) the biggest gaming expos.

If that boosts Sony stock for a couple of weeks, I'm sure that isn't going to sink MS. Right now we've got some info, and the details aren't all laid out for us.

From a license perspective, it seems that:

a) games can be played while installing (same as PS4)
b) the license for the install is tied to your login (Steam does this, Origin does this, PSN and XBLA already do this).
c) if you install it on someone else's console (key being the info specifies "someone else") there is a fee to pay.

They maintain that they have a used game sales strategy - we don't know what that is yet. Given they have established chains of distribution, it wouldn't surprise me that when a game is traded in, that authorized places can revoke the license of the game and have a new key provided to the retailer to sell so the person buying it doesn't see this "fee" when they try to install it.

Remember, you've not bought a game in quite some time - decades, in fact. You have a license agreement with the maker of the software, and if you are compensated for the sale of the product, you have no further rights to use it.

But hey, this is the Internet. Froth on.

the live media on the 360 is no use to me,they never have subtitles i would rather just switch HDMi ports and watch my SKY+ box and have my subtitles..I am guessing this is the same for Xbox One(<<do i have to keep calling it that?)

Looking at the back of the console, there is at least two HDMI ports. It may be that you can still use your sky box as a video feed into your console, and your TV never has to change inputs.

edit: The whole channel listing stuff, that's probably going to require the addn'l hardware/supported cable box / DVR device.

Can we get the topic name changed now? I'm tired of the "Over 80 chars" warning.

no, we like you getting warnings.

I like Warning. He's just rarely around.

I expect MS to "help" key games in transitioning over, or releasing a XO version.

Castle Crashers, Minecraft, and the like.

Can we get the topic name changed now? I'm tired of the "Over 80 chars" warning.