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1281  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: OO about to annex San Diego? on: July 18, 2009, 09:43:21 PM
No... This would obviously be SO, not OO.....They will have to battle it out.
1282  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Apple tells M$ to stop with the ads? on: July 18, 2009, 01:48:09 PM

Quote from: Laner on July 16, 2009, 04:15:17 PM

The ironing is delicious though.

It may be delicious, but you'd probably burn your tongue....
1283  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Not Harry Potter? Not a Problem..... on: July 16, 2009, 03:28:35 PM


Although, it does seem like fun for some reason...
1284  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: New Mechwarrior coming on: July 13, 2009, 02:40:32 PM
I was going to go out and buy another full set until the annoucement... I wish they would put up a date so that I know if I can wait for it. smile

Interesting Mechwarrior story...... Mechwarrior was the main/only reason I bought my first PC... A Packard Bell.... I actually bought the game about a month before the PC. I took the game to the store to check for compatibility..... I didn't know anything back then and asked if I could load the game on their demo unit to try out. The first 2 stores said no, but the 2rd one said YES!! ( I "think" it was PC Richards? Were they even around then?) I sat there and played the game in the store for about 3 hours!!! Noone said anything and they even used me as a demo for other customers... smile I went back a week later and bought the PC from them, even though it was about $250 more.....

I still have my original BattleDroids game somewhere, but sad to say, I lost the BEST game minitures EVER made that came with the game.... I think it was a Shadowhawk and either a WASP or a Warhammer.... but these were actual tiny models with moving parts...

1285  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Postal 3 on: July 05, 2009, 02:54:53 AM
It must be a wolverine (Wolverines!!)... I doubt they need any stinking Badgers....
1286  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Steam hacking attempted! on: July 03, 2009, 09:59:57 PM

Quote from: Razgon on July 03, 2009, 09:25:15 PM

Quote from: Purge on July 03, 2009, 08:37:01 PM

Quote from: Razgon on July 03, 2009, 07:36:00 PM

Hi all,

just a quick heads up, that I got a chat message from "Automatic Messaging System" which claimed it was from steam, and had discovered multiple IP adresses on my computer, which was hackers, and wanted my password and username.

The funny thing is, we had a group in common, and I do believe it was Gamingtrend

So, beware of this, although I'm sure no-one here would ever give out their username and password :-)

edit: yes, its part of GamingTrend group.

Is there no method of communicating this to the folks at Steam/Valve to swing the hammer of bannination (and subsequent investigation) ??

I reported it - wasnt able to under "hacking" since I had to supply my username and account info as if my account HAD been compromised, so did it under "friends list"...but the steam support is a nightmare to get to work

ditto this.. Their support is a real pain. I actually had my account hacked about 2 weeks ago or so and it took a while to get it back.
1287  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: ArmA II - demo, videos, reviews and other stuff on: July 03, 2009, 09:46:24 PM

Quote from: Booner on July 03, 2009, 02:21:23 PM

I'm assuming you are at the pick-up location, you may want to change the LZ. I found some weirdness with the chopper's decisions on where to touch down. Never have him come down close to a treeline...I've seen him either hover for a long time till I give him a new LZ or crash into said treeline.....also, never have him touchdown near livestock, unless you want steak and have time to watch him take off and land about 10 times.  icon_confused

If all else fails, grab a car. smile

Ditto powerlines and buildings. While we can land on tight spots, Maddox is an idiot and needs WIDE open area's.
Also try to make it flat land. He doesn't actually land all the time and instead hivers a few inches off the ground. If it is on any kind of slope, he will start sliding down it.

If you kill Maddox, I think you can't get any missions completed, but I'm not sure.

If you can find a good server, MP is awesome.
1288  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Lucasarts announcement Monday on: July 03, 2009, 09:30:51 PM

Quote from: GatorFavre on July 03, 2009, 05:58:16 PM

Quote from: jersoc on July 03, 2009, 08:35:07 AM



these announcements of announcements needs to fucking die. seriously. this just pisses me off like no other. screw every damn company that does this. i hope you all you burn in hell. no gives a shit you have an announcement until you do it. i'll chalk this up another piece of crap announcement because they always are.

/rant about how stupid the industry is turning out to be

I agree.  In fact, I think twitter is pretty lame in most cases.  I think it's cool for things like breaking news or sports scores/updates but I really couldn't care less what my friends are doing every minute of the day.
X is making a sandwich.
X stayed up too late last night!
X just went for a walk.
X is feeling weird.


If you don't care, why are you reading them?  ninja
1289  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: "Please pirate our games. Thanks. With Love, EA CEO" on: June 29, 2009, 12:53:32 PM

Quote from: Canuck on June 29, 2009, 12:37:29 PM

Quote from: Razgon on June 29, 2009, 05:58:23 AM

Quote from: Destructor on June 29, 2009, 12:38:39 AM

This is why he means what he means:

EA has some built-in protection against pirates when it comes to Sims 3. A large percentage of the content isn't even saved on the disc: you have to go online and activate the title to get the rest of the game. "A huge amount of the gameplay is an overlay for the community, where you are sampling assets created by other people. So for the pirate consumer, they don't get the second town, they don't get all the extra content, and they don't get the community," Riccitiello explained. EA had sent me a copy of the game to check out, and while installing I noticed there was a 3GB update that needed to be installed to play.

Due to online activations (and large after-purchase required downloads), he's calling the discs you're buying on store shelves 'demos', as they're nearly worthless until you activate them.

This is a BAD precedent in my mind. Imagine if you were still on dial-up?

do you know anyone still on dialup? And even IF they were still on dialiup, they could still unlock the full game.

honestly, I dont care - more power to EA for trying to stop piraracy in ways other than "Draconian DRM"

My parents are practically on dialup-whatever they use it's not something I would want to have to use gigs of data for.  Besides, I don't trust EA to be there for me 5 years down the road.  How long do the servers last for sports games before they shut them down and force everyone to move over to the next version?  If it's something that you can save on a disk and be able to install it in five years time yourself then I guess that would be ok.
My mom was on dial-up until about a month ago. I have friend who are on dial-up as well. Some due to cost and some due to it still not being available in their area. I have also had to deal with MANY customers using dial-up. Not fun when you are going there to fix their PC's and need to download drivers and windows updates and such...
1290  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: ArmA II - demo, videos, reviews and other stuff on: June 29, 2009, 01:24:37 AM

Quote from: Booner on June 28, 2009, 09:51:02 PM

Quote from: Punisher on June 27, 2009, 05:56:58 PM

Anyone found any good servers for this yet? What servers are you using? plans to get their server up next weekend, then Shack Tactical will have a server. Both of these will be pretty serious, but this type of game really lends itself to a more realistic approach to teamwork. The SimHQ server is a bit more relaxed, but they do have one night a week where they get regimented.

If anyone is interested, Shack Tac has a great tactics guide for ArmA2...Guide!

I played the hell out of both OpFP and ArmA1, so I'll absolutely will be getting this sometime in the next week or two, but have a couple more games I need to clear out of my backlog first.
Thanks. I'll have to look into it. I am not looking for an uber serious server, more like middle of the road. Something where helicopters won't leave you, people won't shoot down helicopters to get their attention, work together, etc.... but not something where: not knowing the proper lingo, making mistakes, etc... gets you booted.

I've been just playing random servers for now (there doesn't appear to be a way to save servers as favorites) and the game has been mixed. There is always 1 or 2 pain in the asses though.... I want to make my own server, but just don't have the time to figure it out.

That tactics guide looks interesting, but it NEEDS a PDF version to print out... Speaking of which, the PDF manual from Steam has a horrible layout and is not good for printing....  I wish steam games had an option of buying  a printed manual. Not always a big deal, but I'd like one for this....
1291  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: ArmA II - demo, videos, reviews and other stuff on: June 27, 2009, 05:56:58 PM
Anyone found any good servers for this yet? What servers are you using?
1292  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Doctor Who Special on: June 25, 2009, 12:29:59 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on June 23, 2009, 03:03:16 PM


* CeeKay has a geekgasm.

towel please.

If you were a true geek, you'd already know to always carry a towel....
1293  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Up - Down? on: June 19, 2009, 09:10:19 PM

Quote from: kratz on June 19, 2009, 09:01:53 PM

Horrible for the girl and her family, but awesome job by Pixar...Very stand "up"ish!
Only 7 hours later.....
1294  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What are you buying this week? (6/15) on: June 15, 2009, 06:51:12 PM
Anyone have any pros/cons over 360 or PS3? I was going to get PC, but I think i want the MP option.
1295  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: So it begins..... on: May 01, 2009, 03:06:48 AM
The robot just wanted him to think he had cut power....
1296  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / So it begins..... on: April 30, 2009, 01:15:10 AM
Not sure if this has been posted, but... <Man attacked by robot!

If it wasn't true, it'd make a good viral story for Terminator.....

1297  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: [EVE] Trendy Squids - The New Direction on: April 08, 2009, 07:11:16 PM
I'm fine with whatever the corp decides to do and would also like to donate any proceeds I am supposed to get, right back to the corp. I don't need the ISK right now and I'd rather help us grow.

The only thing about adding "outsiders" or joining an alliance, is expectations. anyone getting involved with us needs to understand that we are a casual corp, just so noone gets upset later on if we aren't around as much as some people would like.

1298  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: April 01, 2009, 01:12:58 AM
Questions on skills and respec.

I currently have:
Intelligence 25
Perception 23
Charisma 21
Willpower 22
Memory 23
I also have +5 implants to all.

1) are there any implants with higher bonus?
2) I am playing with the EveMon attribute calculator. It "looks" like, if I respec and put Perception to 50 I get a HUGE jump in training time. This will cut my current traing from 3 days to 1 day give or take.
I don't know how respec works other than once a year. What would I have to do to get the perception to 50? Is there a disadvantage?
1299  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: [EVE] The Trendy Squid Trading Corporation - Mining op on: March 27, 2009, 11:12:26 PM
I wont be able to make it. I'm going to be away for Saturday. I will have my laptop, but no EVE on it yet...
I don't even have a real ship yet, so no biggie...

As a suggestion, why not invest in some heavy hitter ships to provide protection for the mining ops? Or is a matter of not having anyone qualified to fly them?
1300  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: March 26, 2009, 03:57:58 PM
1) where do I find the contract skill? My character is actually several months old, but I have been training combat and mechanic type skills.
2) We can also have people start training in Gallente ship use as an alternative.
3) If anyone needs any loans let me know. I should have plenty to lend.
1301  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: March 26, 2009, 12:03:50 PM

Quote from: Huw the Poo on March 26, 2009, 11:40:44 AM

Would you guys who don't normally visit OO please make sure you at least glance at the Eve thread in PC Gaming there from time to time?  Some of our members only post there and there's some good input coming in.

We also have a decision to make in the not-too-distant future.  We're aiming to produce ships for profit, but what about ships we produce for our own use?  At the moment it seems we're heading in the direction of making most of our ISK from selling ships so any that are given away free to corporation members would cut into that.  I've been in large corporations with an old account who sell manufactured ships to members at discounted prices.  Is that something you can all live with?  If not, we're going to have to be very careful about how many ships are given away for free and work something out.

Edited to add: Another option would be, as someone said on OO, to rely on other revenue streams such as the sale of minerals, in which case he would be right that our net profit in real terms for each ship sold would be much lower.  Gah!  Are any of you economists by any chance?

In the beginning, depending on actual cost, which someone will have to let me know, I can spot the funds for ships that we give away to members. I would prefer that this come in the form of a loan though because I can see the costs getting high, but a no interest loan where say the player pays back half and the corp pays back half? If the costs are lower than I think, it can be a freebie.
I can also provide some more seed money for the coirp to lower startup costs, but this will depend on how much more is needed.
As an ongoing system, discounted rates would be good, or something where the buyer provides materials needed or a combination of both?
1302  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: March 25, 2009, 06:54:33 PM
CAP=Combat Air Patrol. I guess I would be a defense for the miners at times, if needed. That's why I want all 3, so I can multi-role and hopefully not get too bored. I have gaming ADD....
1303  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: March 25, 2009, 02:10:52 PM

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on March 25, 2009, 01:13:32 PM

Quote from: Huw the Poo on March 25, 2009, 12:04:33 PM

Well, we were all yelling at you to either be very quick or stay inside the station. slywink

It happens to us all, though.  It's just part of Eve, love it or loathe it.  Eventually when we can all fly decent combat ships we can go pirate-hunting in gangs.  Now that will be fun!

Honestly, I thought it was hilarious and a lot of fun sitting in station trying to get up the nerve to hit the undock button. Heck, it's not like I lost a 80m tricked out Battlecruiser. I did lose some low level implants when he podded me. /shrug Oh, well. My biggest regret is that I couldn't come up with something clever to eve-mail to him.  icon_biggrin I do look forward to that pirate hunting.

Punisher, there is a Hoarder and a Procurer in the corp hanger. Those are the Minmitar entry-level hauler and miner and training for those will be the quickest way to get your miner and hauler. Evemon will tell you exactly what you need to train to fly both of them.

Combat ship...any idea what you want to fly? What kind of combat you want to use?
Well, I'm not looking for an entry level hauler really, I'm looking for something a little higher end.
I don't have any real goals right now due to lack of time. I will want to take on some missions and such, but I would say the fast order of business is to have a Miner and Hauler for any Mining Ops we do so I would want something that could help with that.
For combat, I am looking at something for missions and also something to fly CAP on our Ops.

1304  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: March 25, 2009, 12:29:13 PM
I thought I calculated enough minerals to get us the cruisers.

Send me a list of ALL the items we need and I will see about getting them. I don't have a problem investing in the corp right now.
I can also send more ISK. I will send extra to cover the cost of the BPO so that it is not coming out of the corps funds.

In return, I will need a favor from someone who knows how to build effective ships. I will front the ISK to have one completly built and outfitted for me. I just don't know what I'm doing, nor do I really have the time to figure it out.

I'd probably want 3 ships.
1 mining ship
1 hauler
1 combat

I need to know how much each would cost in total and what skills I will need and then I can take it from there.
1305  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: March 25, 2009, 01:56:57 AM
Is there a way for someone to make a fully outfittied ship and give it to someone else?

I am having super information overload, trying to build a ship.
1306  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: March 25, 2009, 01:31:59 AM
just a heads up. I caught the last bit of chat tonight. before you do anymore number crunching....check the corp mining hanger... slywink
1307  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: March 24, 2009, 12:55:48 AM
I am Caldari I believe. Am I looking at a month long trip? smile
1308  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: March 23, 2009, 10:15:51 PM
Question: What do I have to actually do to join up. I believe that I am currently in the starter area still. I have plenty of ISK thanks to some generous friends who used to play, so money shouldn't be an issue.
Where do I go?
1309  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Knowing on: March 23, 2009, 06:59:06 PM

Quote from: Moliere on March 23, 2009, 04:14:13 PM

Quote from: papasmurff on March 23, 2009, 05:56:32 AM

just got back from this..... first 45 min the movie was good...the last half was nothing but me saying really and  Roll Eyes  probably not even worth a rental...unless you are bored

I saw it at the drive-in Saturday night.

Spoiler for Hiden:
So the aliens know that the earth is going to be destroyed at least 50 years before it happens. Their solution is to whisper the secret to a 10 year old girl, so she can write a code explaining this secret to be locked up for 50 years giving anyone who deciphers it all of 3 days notice? When they do get around to evacuations they take one girl and one boy to be the new Adam and Eve somewhere else complete with their own implied Tree of Knowledge? Although the movie never explained the other alien ships leaving Earth at the same time as Caleb and Abbey.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I just assumed that they implied that the other ships had kids as well.  Although, with the technology they appear to have, why did they need such large ships for 2 people?
Why not take the dad?
How are these kids supposed to survive on the new planet?
1310  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: March 23, 2009, 04:50:32 PM
What are the requirements for joining the corp?
Like I mentioned, I am SUPER casual and still very noobish, but it may be interesting to have some people to hook up with once in a while. If there is a limit to how many people you can have and you are near it, then nevermind, I wouldn't want to take another spot up from someone that will be more active.

1311  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: Eve Online - GT+OO Corporation (Naming?) on: March 22, 2009, 12:46:43 PM

Quote from: Destructor on March 14, 2009, 04:41:05 PM

Your link of the day to the starter guide to EVE Online:,3510.0.html

(you'll see a download link in the first post - and no, you don't have to register to grab it)

It's slightly outdated, but the stuff that it's missing won't affect you at all for the first few months.

Additionally, you'll want this: EVEMon. It'll let you keep track of any skill training and such you do, and let you plan out for future training. It's not as needed as it was before thanks to the skill training queues, but it'll help in many ways.

Thanks for these links! Especially EVEMon! I don't have a lot of time to play this game, so for a while now, I've basically been paying to keep leveling up my character. This way when I di get out to play, I am not too far behind. The EveMon thing will help so I can see when my long training time skills are almost done...
1312  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [360]GTAIV:The Lost and Damned on: February 18, 2009, 01:59:09 AM
Does anyone know if there are plans to offer this at some point for the PC version? If so when?
1313  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Dawn of War 2 - [beta impressions included] on: January 26, 2009, 01:34:52 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on January 22, 2009, 04:32:42 PM

Quote from: leo8877 on January 22, 2009, 04:16:39 AM

Apparently gamestop is no longer selling DoW2 because they are mad it's also available on Steam, what with the digital license and all.  Too lazy to link, but most gaming news sites have a story on it.

here you go.

From article
Steam will be a required install for all Dawn of War 2 users and the game will run through Valve's distribution platform, but it seems that Gamestop may feel a bit threatened by introducing so many customers to the online alternative of Steam and has decided to pull Dawn of War 2 from shelves as a result.

Now, it's a rumor, but if it's true...

1) I didn't know Steam would be required for the retail game. Seems odd...
2) I don't think that the best way to "hide" Steam from their customers is to force them to buy the game on Steam. Even if Steam was required to install the game, some people may not realize exactly what Steam was (This is for those Gamestop customers that never used Steam). They may just think it's for updating the game.
3) Has anyone tried pre-ordering at GS recently?
4) Why would it require Steam when it obviously requires Windows Live?
5) Perhaps GS is referring to the Beta that requires Steam?
1314  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: L4D - Can My PC Play it? on: January 12, 2009, 03:35:54 AM
Add Punisher please
1315  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Who Would Save Earth? on: January 11, 2009, 03:59:07 PM

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on January 11, 2009, 11:15:25 AM


That's an automatic win, regardless of the competition involved.

If they allow a 2 on 2, add Mr T, they will not only win the competetion, but become their new leaders.
1316  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Electricity Bills on: January 11, 2009, 03:51:46 PM

Quote from: Octavious230 on January 11, 2009, 03:30:58 PM

Mine was 150 USD last month.. In the summer it goes up to 200 sometimes. Of course I live in New Jersey which is the land where reason forgot. This is a very small house and we don't have much running. My wife is home all day though which I guess might have something to do with it.

Ahh, good old PSE&G?
173.57 here....$51.87 Gas

I've been getting in the habit off turning off all of my PC's except one that is usually doing something all day and it helps.
I've also got a surge protector connected to my 360, Wi, TV, cable, etc.. that I can turn off with one click.
Electric bill used to be higher. I think it peaked at around $350 once...
1317  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: My girlfriend snores... on: January 11, 2009, 02:58:41 AM

Quote from: pr0ner on January 07, 2009, 11:50:04 PM

Quote from: Ascendent on January 07, 2009, 09:00:04 PM

Quote from: cheeba on January 07, 2009, 07:35:19 PM

It also really helps to lose weight.

I'm sure that it does, but I'm not going to tell her to lose weight. Really is that ever a good idea, for any woman?

Why not tell her, if it would improve her quality of life (and yours)?


1) You tell her, she loses weight and it works!
2) You tell her, she gets pissed at you thinking she's fat and leaves. It works!

Also, have you tried:
1) Putting a pillow over her head?
2) Yours?

On a side note, one of my son's friends has a HORRIBLE snoring problem due to a problem with his nasal passage I believe.
Ear Plugs don't help and even sleeping in the next room doesn't....  not fun times
1318  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What dead game series should Bethesda get next? on: January 11, 2009, 02:13:38 AM
I voted for Mechwarrior, but I can't recall a Bethesda game with vehicles, so I wonder how well they could do something that is a mix of vehicles and people.

My ultimate game is a COMPLETE mechwarrior.
Full universe, with multiple solar systems with multiple planets.
Each planet has to have multiple wide open areas, preferably a full planet that could be walked, driven, or flown around.
You can jump into mechs, run around on foot, drive vehicles and fly aerofighters (and I want the LAM back!)
Take off from planet and fly into space. dock with and land with dropships and other ships.

not sure if this is even all possible, but I had high hopes for the Battlecruiser series to come close. frown
1319  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Needed: advice on buying refurbished/off-lease/old laptops on: December 09, 2008, 08:22:48 PM
One thing to keep in mind.... You bought laptops last year and are now looking to do it agin. The money you save may not be worth it if you have to buy "new" ones every year.
You can get new laptops at retail for $350-$500. Yes more than you intended on spending, but long term, probably a better bet and they'll come with a 1 year warranty.
1320  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: At What Point is it Stealing? on: December 09, 2008, 08:17:52 PM

Quote from: DragonFyre on December 03, 2008, 03:54:29 PM

One time, about five years ago now at a Best Buy I've never been back to, I caught the error while sitting in my car that I wasn't billed for an item. I think it was a DVD or something, I don't remember now - it's not really important. It was just a $20 item. I went back into the store, pointed out to the door bouncer that I wasn't billed for something, and wanted to pay for it. He looked at me like I was crazy and rather than have me go over to the checkout line, called the manager. He came over, saw the error, and then pulled the cashier who checked me out off the line to talk to her in the back room.
So basically, because I'm a nice guy and caught the mistake, an employee got chastized and possibly even fired over it.

You should have called out the bouncer...Isn't he supposed to check the receipts? Obviously a waste of a policy.... I have had this happen a few times at Best Buy, which helps to prove that the receipt checkers are a useless waste of time.

As for the topic, the right thing would be to return it, but I can also see where the cost comes into play. It's not a matter of it being a pack of gum, but more a matter of am I willing to be inconvienanced for the pack of gum? Is it worth it to have to get back in the car, drive 10 minutes to a store, spend time explaining what happened, then drive back home?
cost is an issue, but only in a partial sense.
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