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11681  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ever go to a concert by yourself? on: November 13, 2004, 02:58:15 PM
Thanks.  Now I don't feel quite so strange for wanting to go by myself.    I'm going to go no matter what, because I really doubt I'll get another chance to see them.

When I told her about it, Mrs. Gratch said she might with me, even though she doesn't like their music one bit.  Damn my wife is cool.  smile
11682  Non-Gaming / Trading Forum / The Official GT Trader Feedback List (updated 7/30) on: November 12, 2004, 10:01:26 PM
+1 to warning for the freebie
11683  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / New Atari Console? on: November 12, 2004, 07:40:45 PM
I'd was initially excited about the Flashback, until they said it only came with about 20 games.  Hell, I can go buy one of those joysticks that has about that many games in it for $20.
11684  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ever go to a concert by yourself? on: November 12, 2004, 07:07:42 PM
Here's the deal.  My favorite band of all time, Skinny Puppy, is playing here later this month.  However, none of my friends are into that type of music at all, and I can't think of a single one that would go with me.  In fact, I can't even think of a distant acquaintance that has ever even heard of SP.  So I'm dying to go to this show, but don't get too excited about the prospects of going to a concert by myself.  I've gone to movies solo on occasion, but a concert is a much more social event.  Anyone done it before?

I'm sure I'll end up going, as this will probably be the first and last chance I'll ever get to see Skinny Puppy live.  But man will I ever feel like a loser.  Oh well...
11685  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Unscrewed cancelled, TSS "morphing". on: November 12, 2004, 12:56:29 PM
Can't say I'm too sad about either of those shows getting the axe.  Unscrewed was only occasionaly amusing, and I could never sit through and entire episode of TSS.  Granted, I never got TechTV so I've only seen the bastardized version of TSS, but it's just awful.  

I will check out G4 occasionally, and actually enjoy Filter (Diane Mizota.  Rawrrrrr...), X-Play, Cinematech, and Pulse.   Could definately do without the other shows though.  The one that baffles me the most is "Arena".  Who in their right mind actually sits down and watches other people play Mechassault and UT2K4?
11686  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Today is Veteran's Day - thanks dbt & others! on: November 12, 2004, 12:50:22 PM
I'm a day late, but huge props and thanks to all you vets.
11687  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Edit: Make me want an Xbox - and tell me what I should know on: November 11, 2004, 06:30:42 PM
Quote from: "juniordan"
I got one on Sunday....
Me of all people mr PS2, Mr sony all the way, Mr PS2 and PC
dont need the damaged box.
I like it and I am even more comfortable with the fact I got the 2 year
warranty with it from best buy $20bucks.
because it break and will break I am sure everyone here has bee thru at least one or more Xbox (owned for over a year at least).
My PS2 is going on 3-4years and no problem.

But Halo 2 and KOTOR 1 & 2 will be worth it.

FWIW, I've had a PS2 for close to 3 years, and an X-Box for over 2 and I've never had a problem with either.  My PS2 probably has hundreds more hours than the X-Box (not many Japanese RPG's on the Box), but they both still run great.

Now that I said that, I'll probably get disc read errors on both this afternoon. slywink
11688  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 11, 2004, 05:07:53 PM
Quote from: "Fireball1244"
We work in your offices. We go to your churches. We have kids in your schools... and we also teach your kids in the schools. We live on your block. We pay our taxes. We serve in the military. We love our country just as much as any heterosexual. We are, by and large, just like you.'ve got teh gay.  That automatically makes you evil.  You should change your heathen, immoral ways and become one of us normal straight folk right now!  I'll loan you my Bible to help get you started.

/heaps and heaps of sarcasm

Great posts, man.  I think many of the basic privlages of married couples that you pointed out get overlooked by the "anti-gay marriage", interest groups.
11689  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / should I get KOTOR on: November 11, 2004, 04:30:48 PM
KotOR is the best Star Wars experience in the last 20 years, including the prequels and all the other games, books, shows, etc.  It really is an amazing game.  You'll definately want to budget a good chunk of time for it though.  I can almost guarantee you'll want to play through it twice (once good, once bad).  It took me about 45 the first time through (playing good, which is much harder imo), but only around 25 the second time because I didn't bother with a lot of the side quest stuff.

BTW, how have we gotten this far in a KotOR thread without the bashers showing up?  I always thought those guys had some sort of radar that detected positive KotOR posts and launched heat seeking missiles to start up the inevitable flamewar.
11690  Non-Gaming / Trading Forum / The GT Pay It Foward Freebies Thread *closing end of 2005* on: November 11, 2004, 01:12:51 PM
Fafhrd:  I'll take that Etherlords 2 if you don't mind.

PM in a bit...
11691  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / LOST - 11/10/04 on: November 11, 2004, 01:07:05 PM
Mrs. Gratch and I watched Lost for the first time last night.  Even coming in mid-show, I must admit I'm very impressed.  It had me glued to the set for the entire episode, and I'm even considering watching it next week.  That's pretty huge for me, as I have never in my life watched a TV drama regularly.  If it can actually get me hooked, it's gotta be a pretty good show.
11692  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Vancouver, BC Travel advice needed on: November 10, 2004, 09:08:00 PM
I remember taking a trip to Victoria and Vancouver when I was about 10 years old.  I only remember bits and pieces, but maybe one of you guys can help me out.  We went to some sort of museum (in Victoria, I think) that was entirely dedicated to miniatures.  They had these incredible miniatures of famous buildings, complete recreations of major battles in miniature, and all kinds of amazing stuff on a small scale.  I remember it being one of the coolest things I'd ever seen and have always wanted to go back and see it again.  Anyone know what the name of the place was?

I also vaguely remember Buchart Gardens, which were boredom incarnate for a 10 year old.  I'd love to go back now that I would appreciate it more.  Hmmm, maybe Mrs. Gratch and I need to head that way next summer...
11693  Non-Gaming / Trading Forum / The Official GT Trader Feedback List (updated 7/30) on: November 10, 2004, 03:46:13 PM
+1 to aussie77 for the freebie
11694  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Charlie and the CHocolate Factory on: November 10, 2004, 01:09:25 PM
Quote from: "Sepiche"
Quote from: "Ypmur"
Well, let's hope he doesn't abandon his original efforts in order to keep doing remakes.... I think his originals are what he does best.

This is his next project.  Supposedly it's a new stop motion musical.


A new stop motion musical?  You just made my day.  Nightmare Before Christmas is one of my all-time favorites, and I was afraid he'd never team up with that crew (Elfman, especially) to try it again.  Looks like a killer voice cast as well.  Depp, Bonham Carter, Emily Watson, Albert Finney, Christopher Lee.  

I absolutely loved "Big Fish", his last original film.  Totally different from anything else he's done, but it was a fantastic movie.  One of the few movies I can remember that honestly brought tears to my eyes.
11695  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Seasonal Affective Disoder? on: November 09, 2004, 05:08:07 PM
I get a lot happier when it snows.  Does that count?  slywink
11696  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Charlie and the CHocolate Factory on: November 09, 2004, 12:03:25 PM
I'm there for anything directed by Tim Burton, starring Johnny Depp, and featuring Danny Elfman music.  That's a winning combination in my book.
11697  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Halo 2 - It's ON! (impressions thread) on: November 09, 2004, 03:51:21 AM
Quote from: "dangerballs"
I plan on leaving in a hour or so.  I can hear my xbox downstairs moaning.  She's saying give it to me, baby.  Give me your Halo 2.  Put it inside.  Yes!  Play it, baby. Yes! YES! YESSSSS!!!!  :shock:

OK, you people are now officially way too excited for this game.

/one of apparently 2 people that own an X-Box and has absolutely zero interest in Halo 2
11698  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: ... on: November 08, 2004, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: "Pharaoh"
A big thing I found is using Benethor at all times. His Leadership abilities, espeically the Immunity to Stun and Spirt resistances are huge, especially when those stupid casters start using Murder of Crows.

I had trouble leveling at that point, but there should be a point near the Worg Queen where a Save Point is in her nest, and you get aggro real fast near it. I just saved (Full HP/Mana), then fought twice, went back, and repeated until I got a few more levels for my characters.

Thanks for the tip Pharaoh.  Since there weren't many enemies in Moria that had stun attacks, I had skipped over that one in Berethor's Leadership skill tree.  Once I picked it up, it made the rest of that level pretty easy.

Regarding game length, I'm a little over 10 hours and it says I'm only at 30% complete (just got to the plains of Rohan).  I've heard it's only 15-20 hours, so is the last half of the game really short, or am I just really slow?
11699  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / College Football! on: November 08, 2004, 05:12:58 AM
Quote from: "Pyperkub"

Fiesta: ??? vs ACC champ

??? = Utah, Michigan, Texas, Auburn

Oh please, oh please, oh please, oh please let it be Utah.  Things would really have to fall in place just perfect (mainly a couple losses from teams above them), but I would love to see Utah be the first "BCS buster" to get through the old boys ridiculous system.

Of course, I'm a Utah season ticket holder, so I'm a little biased.  smile
11700  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / LOTR: TTA (More impressions please!) on: November 07, 2004, 07:33:19 PM
Wow, this game just took a huge jump in difficulty.  I just got through Moria (that Balrog's a mean bitch), and didn't really have any problems all the way through.  Really, the Balrog fight is the only one that gave me any trouble at all.

On to the next level...and I start getting my ass simply handed to me. These Uruk-hai and Orc parties are strong as hell, their stun attacks are a killer, and I've gotten mopped three times in just the opening section.

Did you guys find this section to be much more difficult, or did I simply not level up my characters enough through Moria?  I'm playing on Normal difficulty, btw.
11701  Non-Gaming / Trading Forum / The GT Pay It Foward Freebies Thread *closing end of 2005* on: November 07, 2004, 05:05:38 PM
Warning:  I'll take DMC.  Always wanted to try that one and ever got around to it.

You'll have a PM in a bit.
11702  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / LOTR: TTA (More impressions please!) on: November 06, 2004, 06:27:47 AM
I picked up LotR:  TTT this afternoon, having serious doubts whether or not I'd like it.  I love both FFX and LotR, but wasn't sure how well they'd go together.

I just finished playing for 6 1/2 hours straight.  Good God, this is possibly the most addicting RPG I've played in a long time.   So far, this game has done absolutely everything right.  The battle system is fun, the graphics are superb, the use of music (it's the movie score) is perfect, the movie segments and McKellen's VO work is well done, and overall I'm having a complete blast with it.  I'd highly recommend it to anyone who even remotely enjoyed FFX or LotR
11703  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 06, 2004, 02:44:54 AM
Quote from: "Rhinohelix"
If the majority is always right i guess we better throw all interacial couples in jail because the majority was against that (ironically it was the same group too!).
 African-Americans and Hispanics are overwhelmingly against gay marriage.  Next stereotype to be de-bunked, please.  :roll:


I think you misunderstood.  This was brought up as an example to show that not too long ago, the banning of interracial marriage was encouraged by the "majority", just like banning of gay marriage is today.  Yet in today's society, interracial marriage is now a very common occurance.  

I don't think he meant that the majority of interracial couples are against gay marriage.
11704  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 05, 2004, 08:49:28 PM
Quote from: "Butterknife"
If that is your understanding as well then what is the problem when the courts say that laws against gay marrige are unconstitutional?

I agree with you.  If the court says that laws against gay marriage are unconstitutional (Supreme Court will undoubtedly hear this one at some point in the near future) then I would support their decision.  Doesn't mean I would agree with it, but I would support it (hopefully that makes sense).

That's good to hear Butterknife.  While I don't agree with your opinion, you've at least taken some time to actually think about it, which is more than what most people do.

Unfortunately, I think you're probably the exception rather than the rule.  I just get the feeling many voters this year simply said, "Well, my pastor/bishop/magic tree frog says it's bad, so I better go cast my ballot accordingly!"
11705  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 05, 2004, 08:09:14 PM
Quote from: "Butterknife"
Now, on to the actual subject.  Homosexuality is morally wrong, as far as I am concerned.  We have every right as Americans to make laws against things that we believe to be morally wrong.  

That's the reasoning that scares the shit out of me.  I just don't understand how anyone could support legislating morality because everyone's idea of "correct morals" is so vastly different.  To me, saying people can't marry because they're gay is no different that saying people who are left-handed can't marry.  Or people who can roll their tounge can't get married.  Or people who are albino can't marry.  Or people who get depressed can't marry.   You're discriminating based on a physical trait, which IMO goes against the entire concept of freedom this country was built on.

For example, I'd say 99% of Americans believe murder to be morally wrong.  Therefore, we have laws against murder.  But, undoubtedly, a small percentage of the population believes murder to be OK.  As far as those few people are concerned, it is "wrong" to make a law against murder.

I gotta disagree here.  There is a law against murder because it is an act that causes very real harm to another individual or individuals, not because it is morally wrong.  Same with theft, arson, assault, embezzlement, etc., etc.  These are acts that have drastic effects on other people's lives.  I just don't see physical, monetary, or any other sort of harm to anyone if two gay people are allowed to marry.

EDIT:  Damn, I type too slow.  In the time it took me to type this, you guys had already brought up all my points.  Please continue and I'll keep lagging behind...  slywink
11706  Non-Gaming / Trading Forum / The GT Pay It Foward Freebies Thread *closing end of 2005* on: November 05, 2004, 01:35:24 PM
Here's the updated Karma ratings I've got:

Aussie77  +10
Dangerballs +9
Eliot +5
Enigma +7
Ericb +1
Goldenember +2
Gratch +18
Gwen +7
Hitbyambulance +8
Kestrel 0
Laner +7
Lord Ebonstone  +3
None +5
Qbe +2
Ragnarok +18
VynlSol +4
Wanker Jr. 0
Warning +7
Wookie007 +3
Unbreakable +15
Xmann 0
Zarkon +18

As always, shoot me a PM or e-mail if I'm off.
11707  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Thanks CG modorators. on: November 04, 2004, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: "warning"
I'm sure Jeff Jones will post 5 seconds before me.

You can quit the act know, we all know you're the same person.   I have my suspicions about a link between you and U2K as well...  slywink

Seriously though, thanks for the leeway you guys have shown so far.  I think that, for the most part, everybody has been pretty civil even in the "heated" threads.   It's nice to be able to discuss polar opposite viewpoints without things getting out of control.
11708  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / LOTR: Third Age Review!! on: November 04, 2004, 04:14:47 PM
I'm going to pick this up as soon as I (finally) wrap up Shadow Hearts:  Covenant.  Hopefully tonight or tomorrow.

Of course, that means that the copy of Shin Megami Tensai that I picked up on release day and haven't played yet will continue to gather dust.  frown
11709  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Penny Arcade's "Child's Play" toy drive on: November 04, 2004, 04:02:11 PM
Just wanted to give a heads up to everyone about PA's "Child's Play" toy drive this year.  If you're undecided about a charity to donate to this holiday, you might consider this one.

Child's Play

For those who don't know, the guys over at PA decided to start a toy drive for donation to the Seattle Children's Hospital last year.  They wanted to prove that gamers could do some good in their community to combat the horrible media attention that games and gamers tend to receive.  They ended up bringing in over $250,000 in toys and donations for the hospital.  A couple cool images of the donations:

They've expanded it to include a few more hospitals around the country this year, and are expecting to bring in even more toys and donations.  It's pretty amazing what they generated and is definately worth a look if you haven't checked it out before.
11710  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Cosplayers. Are these the alpha nerds? on: November 04, 2004, 02:25:09 PM
Check out this video...

Is there possibly anything that can top this for sheer nerdiness?
11711  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 04, 2004, 01:16:06 AM
Quote from: "scubabbl"
I'm to lazy to do research, but the states who did ban gay marriage, did they all vote republican also?

With the exception of Michigan and Oregon, yes.  The states that passed it were Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Ohio, Oregon, and Utah.
11712  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 04, 2004, 12:57:39 AM
Quote from: "\/\/olverine"

Well, shit.  How can I argue with that logic?   Tongue
11713  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Great new Dragon Warrior 8 Trailer on: November 04, 2004, 12:08:03 AM
Quote from: "Destructor"
Quote from: "Gratch"
I'm not a big fan of cel-shading, so that will knock it down a notch for me.  Also, whoever did that theme music should be shot.  That was just horrible.

Uh, what? That 'theme music' is the theme for Dragon Warrior itself, and has been for like two decades. It's as well known as the Piano Theme (or is it called the Crystal Theme, or something) from Final Fantasy.

Sure, it didn't sound anywhere near as good on the NES ( smile ), but it's still the same thing.

Well, I've never been a fan of the Dragon Warrior series.  In fact, I would list Dragon Warrior VII is one of my top 3 least favorite games of all time.  And honestly, I don't remember that song from either Dragon Warrior game I played.
11714  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 03, 2004, 11:43:43 PM
Quote from: "Butterknife"
OK, a couple of points.  First, people can vote however they want, for whatever reason they want.  If I don't like the way Bush parts his hair, I can vote based on that.  You don't have to agree that it's a "good enough" reason to vote the way I vote, but at the same time, I can do whatever the heck I want and you can't stop me!  (Go America!)  So whatever reason I have for voting that marriage should be defined as "between a man and a woman" is my business, so to speak.  Whether it's because I think it is immoral, or frivolous, or the gay guy at the 7-11 hit on me last night -- whatever the reason, people can vote how they want, and they don't have to have a reason that they need to justify to anyone else.  This is a cool thing in my mind.

Touche.  I worded my statment poorly.  It was meant more as, "In my opinion, people shouldn't vote because of XYZ."  I didn't mean to say that people shouldn't have the right to vote because of their Bibles or morals.

Second point -- gay marriage is not a "right", and it's not a "freedom".  Marriage, for that matter, is not a right.  We deny it to people who are underage (you knew I was going to use Age Discrimination again, didn't you? slywink )  we deny it to people more than once (polygamy, polygyny).  I'd be interested to hear your views on polygamy, by the way, as that is a particular thorn for Utah as well, based on history.

If marriage isn't a right or freedom, then (again, IMHO) there shouldn't be legal benefits attached to it.  If you attach legal benefits, then you need to be able to offer them to all couples that decide marry, regardless of sexual orientation.

Polygamy is a little tougher.  My feeling is that if everyone involved is a consenting adult, then more power to them, with a major caveat.  The legal benefits of marriage and family should only be applicable for one couple.  This is more due to the drain on tax dollars and society than any moral or religious issue I have with polygamy.   If you want to have 5 wives, be my guest, but don't depend on society to completely support that choice.  That's where I have a problem with Polygamy.  In most polygamyst cases, the wives were/are underage and the family depends on welfare and tax credits to survive.  To me, that is unacceptable.

Besides, I can barely handle one wife.  Why would anyone want more that one?  slywink

Third point -- defining a marriage as being "between a man and a woman" doesn't stop any future laws from being made that can define a relationship between two men, or two women, or a dog and his owner, for that matter.  We can always add laws that allow a relationship between homosexuals, when there is enough societal impetus to do so, at a later date -- we just have to call it something else.  I suggest we use the word "blixney", just because it sounds cool.

True, and I hold out hope enough in humanity that somewhere down the road, these discriminatory laws we signed in yesterday will be removed.  Well, the human ones anyways.  

And I prefer the word "blahoogenstat".  Just 'cause...  slywink
11715  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 03, 2004, 11:20:48 PM
Quote from: "Laner"
Quote from: "Gratch"

I find it abhorrent that the main requirement for marriage boils down to the presence of a penis and vagina rather than the love and commitment that two human beings share.

Why limit it to human beings? That's pretty narrow-minded.

As soon as you find an animal that can give legal consent form, I'll consider that arguement.
11716  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 03, 2004, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: "Evil_Lurking_Koala"
While it is a positive thing that the homosexual couples you know have chosen to lead monogamous relationships, they don't meet the marriage requirement (an intimate committed bond between members of the opposite sex).

I guess that's the crux of where we will agree to disagree.

I find it abhorrent that the main requirement for marriage boils down to the presence of a penis and vagina rather than the love and commitment that two human beings share.
11717  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 03, 2004, 10:45:12 PM
Quote from: "Butterknife"
Sounds good, as long as you're not a BYU fan. I do have to draw the line somewhere.

Shucks, I graduated from BYU.  Don't worry, though -- I'm not a "fan" in any sense of the word.  I was planning on going to the U, but missed the application deadline, so I went to the Y instead.  You can tell I really care about the school rivalry, huh? slywink

Umm, something on subject -- uh, my previous point still stands.  Age discrimination.  It's all over our laws.  Nobody whines and complains about that, though (or at least, nobody listens to the kids do it).  So what makes age discrimination OK?  Why isn't everyone up in arms about that?

It's the reasoning (or lack thereof) behind the discrimination that I take issue with.  Hell, I think it's stupid that an 18 year old can die for his/her country but can't have a beer.  But I also understand that most individuals are capable of mature decisions once they reach age 18.  Hence the law.

Problem is, there is no clear cut, definable reason why people vote for a gay marriage ban.   Religion is not acceptable because there should be a separation of church and state.  And the "immoral" arguement doesn't fly either, because then you start talking about trying to legally enforce opinions on what is right and wrong, moral and immoral.  That smacks of taking away a basic freedom to me.

Honestly, I think most people that voted did so with either their bibles or because they think homosexuality is "gross".   Neither of which is an acceptable reasoning in my book.  But that's all just IMO, of course...
11718  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 03, 2004, 10:30:43 PM
Quote from: "Evil_Lurking_Koala"

It's my belief that morality and religion are not necessarily bound together.  There are people who go to church every Sunday but act terrible the rest of the week.  On the other hand, there are those that hardly ever or never attend a church who are very nice people.  I've met several atheists who are very pleasant people.  Their lack of religion hasn't caused them to lack a strong moral core of beliefs, however.

Here's the flip side of that coin.  I know hetero couples who are on their 5th marriage and treat marriage like it's a game.  I also know homosexual couples who have been in committed, monogomous loving relationships for years.  Why then should the 5 time divorced couples that jump from marriage to marriage get legal benefits such as tax breaks, while those in the committed relationships do not?
11719  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 03, 2004, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: "-Lord Ebonstone-"
Just as a side-note:

People like E_L_K are why R&P discussions should be banned on this forum.  Inevitably, internet R&P discussion attracts the scum of the earth who want to post violently unpopular ideas that would have them beaten to a pulp in public.  Scared and huddling in their parents' basement, they type their racist, bigoted fears out onto the computer screen in a hope of getting some kind of sick gratification when they have to defend their fetid, broken ideas.

There's a Klan out there for people like you, Koala.  Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't already a part of it.

Wow, that was totally unneccesary.  I rather enjoyed having a civil discussion.  :sigh:

Although I completely disagree with ELK, I'm truly interested to hear why he thinks the way he does.
11720  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Ban on Gay Marriage a winner in 11 states. on: November 03, 2004, 09:49:57 PM
Quote from: "Butterknife"
I'm sick of the Age Discrimination that goes on in this country!  People can't vote until their 18, and it's not fair to people younger than that!  It's discrimination I say!

For that matter, what right do people have to define the word "adult" to mean "someone 18 or older"?  Since when?  I know plenty of people who act childish who are older than that, and several people who act maturely who are younger.

If your reasoning for not considering someone a legal adult was because your Bible said so, or because you thought 18 year olds were just gross, then I'd have a huge problem with that reasoning as well.

Not giving driver's licenses to people who are blind is discrimination, too!  Just because you have some sort of physical handicap shouldn't keep you from being able to have the same rights anyone else!  People who are mentally deficient (also known as "crazy") have a right to freedom, not to be locked away in an asylum for their entire lives, having committed no crime!

That's not really comparable.  A blind driver or violent mentally deficient person (usually the onle ones that are in asylums) pose a very real physical risk to everyone around them.  I don't see how 2 guys getting married poses any sort of risk to your well being.

Oh yeah, and Gratch -- I was one of the 75% of Utahns who voted for Amendment 3.  We should get together for a LAN party sometime.  I'm sure it would be fun, we'll just not talk about religion or politics, only games. smile

Sounds good, as long as you're not a BYU fan.  I do have to draw the line somewhere.  slywink
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