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10001  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Weekend Recap 4-2-2007 No Foolin' Edition on: April 02, 2007, 11:04:09 PM

Quote from: Laner on April 02, 2007, 10:22:56 PM

Quote from: Gratch on April 02, 2007, 04:05:16 PM

Spent about 5 hours with Enchanted Arms.  It's a decent enough game, but is possibly the single most generic RPG I've ever played.  It just has no character or charm to it at all.  The combat is somewhat entertaining, but I'm not sure how much more time I'll put into it.  I'll at least give it until the 8-hour mark.

It gets better - not incredibly so, but the first few hours are definitely the most boring.

I've heard that from a few different people, which makes me want to give it at least a couple more hours.
10002  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Buying an X-BOX 360 this week! on: April 02, 2007, 08:18:13 PM

Quote from: Arkon on April 02, 2007, 08:09:13 PM

Quote from: Purge on April 02, 2007, 07:34:16 PM

Honestly, I'd rent it unless you LOVED it.

There is some tedium to it; like replaying scenarios just to level up.

I haven't rented a movie or game in 12 years now.  The local stores are all crappy and don't stock games generally.

I tried renting for the first time in years last week, and was amazed that Hollywood video wanted $9 for a week's rental.  Don't think I'll be renting much anymore.
10003  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Buying an X-BOX 360 this week! on: April 02, 2007, 06:58:16 PM

Quote from: Arkon on April 02, 2007, 06:49:28 PM

Quote from: gilgamex on April 02, 2007, 06:42:16 PM

Quote from: Arkon on April 02, 2007, 06:31:15 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on April 02, 2007, 06:08:50 PM

Quote from: Arkon on April 02, 2007, 05:58:36 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on April 02, 2007, 05:36:20 PM

Quote from: Brendan on April 02, 2007, 05:35:34 PM

Quote from: Gratch on April 02, 2007, 05:29:54 PM

Quote from: Purge on April 02, 2007, 05:25:01 PM

Back ON TOPIC!!!!!

Download the Viva Pinata demo.


Big ol' +1.  After I got past the initial "what the hell am I doing playing a kids game" feeling, I was completely hooked.  Viva Pinata is a damn fine game.

It gives you first-hand experience in mating incestuous candy-stuffed rabbits!

You can't forget smashing said rabbits and feeding their candy to their children.   icon_twisted

I just wish Viva Pinata had sold better, hopefully it will end up with decent final sales as it slowly creeps up in numbers.

I still watch the cartoon every Sunday.  Hope that helps. smile

I hate to sya it, but I think the cartoon hurt the sales of the game in the long run.  The game and cartoon are nothing like each other aside from the characters/animation.

The "demo" certainly detered me from getting the game. I remember thinking "This is a demo?" I thought demos actually let you... ya know... play the game.

That must have been the first demo which was little more than an interactive video if I recall...someone recently posted that a new fully playable demo was put up on live.

The demo I played was fully playable.  I think the only thing they disabled was the Save function, as everything else worked exactly like the full game.  I don't think it had a time limit either, as I played it for a good 2-3 hours.
10004  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Whats your single biggest buyers remorse item? on: April 02, 2007, 06:00:33 PM

Quote from: Purge on April 02, 2007, 02:21:11 PM

Transcen-dental meditation? What's that, where your teeth leave your body and travel great distances?

I'd suggest just waiting till old age kicks in and don't use denture adhesive.... your teeth will fly everytime you sneeze!

Dammit Purge, you owe me a new monitor.
10005  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Buying an X-BOX 360 this week! on: April 02, 2007, 05:29:54 PM

Quote from: Purge on April 02, 2007, 05:25:01 PM

Back ON TOPIC!!!!!

Download the Viva Pinata demo.


Big ol' +1.  After I got past the initial "what the hell am I doing playing a kids game" feeling, I was completely hooked.  Viva Pinata is a damn fine game.
10006  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: 3,000 Nerd Points on: April 02, 2007, 05:28:05 PM
I must be the exception, since I could care less about achievement points.  I've seen the message pop up a few times as I've played, but haven't really payed any attention to it.  I have no idea what achievements I've accomplished, nor do I care whether or not I get more.  Having fun with a game is really all that matters to me.  smile
10007  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Buying an X-BOX 360 this week! on: April 02, 2007, 05:15:46 PM

Quote from: jblank on April 02, 2007, 05:13:18 PM

Quote from: Hetz on April 02, 2007, 11:58:40 AM

Quote from: Arkon on April 02, 2007, 11:57:24 AM

Quote from: Hetz on April 02, 2007, 11:55:35 AM

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

That is a great perspective...

  Roll Eyes

Thanks, I thought so.

Why don't you just leave? I mean really, if this is how you wanna be, and this is gonna be your M.O., just exit the forum. Nobody is gonna miss you, and it sure as hell would calm this place down.

Ahem

EDIT:  Curse you rrmorton!
10008  Non-Gaming / Forum and Site Feedback / Re: Ban announcement on: April 02, 2007, 05:14:02 PM
That's too bad, but I think you guys made the correct decision.   While Hetz did bring some good info to the table, having every single thread degenerate into a pissing match got pretty old.
10009  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Weekend Recap 4-2-2007 No Foolin' Edition on: April 02, 2007, 04:05:16 PM
Took Friday off to spend with my new 360, so I had 3 days to do nothing but game this weekend!!

-  Put about 4 hours into Viva Pinata and got my garden up to level 11.  I'm having an absolute blast, but am having trouble figuring out how to grow it from here.

-  Spent about 5 hours with Enchanted Arms.  It's a decent enough game, but is possibly the single most generic RPG I've ever played.  It just has no character or charm to it at all.  The combat is somewhat entertaining, but I'm not sure how much more time I'll put into it.  I'll at least give it until the 8-hour mark.

-  Got my Knight up to level 25 in Puzzle Quest.  This is possibly the most addicting game I've played...well...ever.

-  Finished Sam & Max Episodes 2, 3, and half of 4.

-  Tried some more of the Gears of War campaign.  I'm really, really, really, awful at this game.

-  Downloaded a few demos, which helped steer me clear of a few games:  in particular Ninety-Nine Nights and Test Drive Unlimited.  Need for Speed:  Carbon was pretty fun though, and I need to get Worms.

All in all, it was a damn fine gaming weekend!  smile
10010  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What are you buying this week? (4/2) on: April 02, 2007, 01:30:09 PM
Nothing for me.
10011  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Buying an X-BOX 360 this week! on: April 02, 2007, 01:08:09 PM
Congrats!  I just got a 360 last week, and having a new console is a blast.  smile 

FWIW, I don't care much for the shooters I've played (GoW, GRAW, and Lost Planet), but that's not really my style of game.   I am, however, really enjoying Viva Pinata and Enchanted Arms, and am might pick up Kameo this week.

Quote from: ATB on April 02, 2007, 12:23:37 PM

My first recommendation would be not to overbuy the games. Buy 1 or 2 and explore them in depth. I think you'll find as I did that achievements are far more a draw than originally anticipated.

+1.  I always tend to go on a "buy everything that got decent reviews" buying binge whenever I get a new console, and always end up with some very disappointing titles.  I tried to limit myself this time by sticking to just a few games, and I think it's worked pretty well.

10012  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Sunday Skin 04/01/07 (NSFW) on: April 02, 2007, 01:03:11 AM
Quote

Oh my.   icon_eek

I'll be in my bunk.
10013  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: April 01, 2007, 04:21:16 PM






10014  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Puzzle Quest for DS/PSP on: March 31, 2007, 02:23:55 PM
Hereís a quick money making tip.  It might be considered exploiting a bug, so take it for what itís worth.

Win the towns of Entmouth and The Trarg.  For some reason, random creatures rarely seem to spawn on the trails between these two cities and Bartonia.  One youíve won these two towns, just run a route from Bartonia, to Entmouth, to The Trarg and youíll get money from each one. 150 from both the Trarg & Bartonia, and 225 from Entmouth.   Thatís 525 for each trip, which takes about 10 seconds.  You can run this circle pretty much at whim without having to fight any random battles.

Just for kicks, I tried running this route for 5 minutes straight.  Managed to rack up 12,500 gold for the effort and didnít have to fight once.  My knight pretty much walks through anyone now at 23rd level.  With a 29 in battle, 28 in Morale, and 15 in each of the elemental masteries, I gain a ton of mana and do great damage every turn.  smile

EDIT:  Looks like this trick only works with a slow mount.  Riding a Giant Rat, you'll get money from each city on nearly every trip.  If you've got a fast mount (i.e. a griffon), you'll only get money every 4-5 trip to the town.
10015  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: March 31, 2007, 01:09:59 PM

Quote from: juniordan on March 29, 2007, 04:06:02 PM

pics

Not trying to be a prude, but I thought it was a no-no to post pictures of full-on genitalia, be it male or female.
10016  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / My gaming childhood in 4 minutes on: March 31, 2007, 01:45:36 AM
Nice trip down memory lane here.  I think I could name just about all of those.

Gaming childhood in 4 minutes
10017  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Console games are for stories on: March 31, 2007, 01:18:49 AM
Quote
Thing is, I just can't really play console games just for their gameplay inards. I'm at a point where the only time I feel like I can truely enjoy a console game is if it has a good story that pulls me along, and makes everything a bit more interesting.

Well said, and I'm all about good story and good characters as well.  I simply can't play a game if there's not some sort of attachment to what's going on.  I love developing characters and unfolding a story throughout the game.  Many of my favorite games have been just as much cut-scene as gameplay, and IMO that's what makes them so good (i.e. Dreamfall, Xenosaga, the Final Fantasys, Shadow Hearts, etc.). 

No matter how cool it looks, killing things just for the sake of killing things gets really boring for me.  Which would explain why I don't enjoy many shooters.
10018  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: EGM May Issue - Scores/Rumors on: March 31, 2007, 01:08:11 AM

Quote from: Starshifter on March 30, 2007, 08:32:48 PM

Quote from: Hetz on March 30, 2007, 08:02:04 PM

- BioWare forming a new team to work on a KOTOR MMO.



Oh please NOT an MMO!  Not a stupid ridiculous MMO!  WHERE'S KOTOR 3!!!!  SINGLE PLAYER!!!!  icon_mad
I'm not paying $15 per month to play a game every month.

This is horrible news.  JUST STUPID!!!!

I completely agree, this is really awful.  KOTOR is one of the best single-player RPG's in years, and the last thing I want to do it be forced to play it online with other people.   If I wanted that, I would have subscribed to fucking SW Galaxies. 

Gah, I hate MMO games and wanted nothing more than to see a third installment for KOTOR.   icon_mad

The Baldur's Gate news is good though.  Using both screens would make it easy:  top for text and character info, bottom for gameplay.  That would actually be really damn cool.
10019  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Awesome Viva Pinata commercial on: March 31, 2007, 01:03:12 AM
The pinata's voice is really familiar.  What's it from?

I just picked this up today and am having a surprising amount of fun with it.  It's rather silly, but strangely addicting.
10020  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: So I'm getting a 360 (and a Gamertag!) on: March 30, 2007, 02:56:20 PM

Quote from: Arclight on March 30, 2007, 02:13:24 PM

Gratch said: "I ended up DL'ing the Viva Pinata demo, and spent about 3 hours fiddling with a garden.  I think I might be buying that one today"..............

Why did this make me laugh.........why am I considering trying Pinata?........ retard

Honestly, when I started playing my first thought was "What in the hell am I doing playing this game?!".  It's so kiddie, and so goofy, and so - dare I say it - cute that you're a little embarrassed playing it.

Once it gets it's hooks into you though, look out.  It is one seriously addicting game.
10021  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Puzzle Quest for DS/PSP on: March 30, 2007, 01:57:11 PM

Quote from: Destructor on March 30, 2007, 01:55:39 PM

I thought Thrust though was a single square destroy skill. If so, you'll gain the effects of whatever you blow up. I found it useful for immediately taking out those +5 Skulls for massive damage.

That's what I usually use it for as well.  Hitting a +5 skull will destroy everything around it (3 X 3), and you get whatever mana/damage comes from it.
10022  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: So I'm getting a 360 (and a Gamertag!) on: March 30, 2007, 01:52:41 PM

Quote from: ATB on March 30, 2007, 01:41:14 PM

Quote from: Gratch on March 30, 2007, 01:29:26 PM


I was a little surprised.  I got on on about 6:00 my time (MST), and I could only find about 5 active games,

What game type did you select?  You should be able to go on at any time and get plenty  more than that. How odd.

Just left it on the option for random game type.  I probably just hit one of the less popular ones.
10023  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: OO - Uh oh? on: March 30, 2007, 01:36:41 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on March 30, 2007, 04:56:38 AM

I warned you not to post those awful pics.  did you listen?  nnnoooooooooo...........


 Tongue

Says the man with the naked Shat avatar...
10024  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: I might not be a Consoler... on: March 30, 2007, 01:35:06 PM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on March 30, 2007, 02:23:22 AM

Quote from: Gratch on March 29, 2007, 03:07:33 PM

Mind you, I'm not opposed to a more stealth-oriented game.  Hell, I loved both the Thief & Tenchu series.  I guess if I'm a ninja or medieval thief, it's just far more appealing.

Well Tenchu Z will be hitting the 360 in the US mid-June, so stay hardy!  The series does have it's faults, but for some reason I really like playing them. 

Heh, was just looking at a preview of this yesterday.  I can't help being a sucker for these games, even though the last few have been pretty poor.
10025  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Weekend playlist 30/Mar/07 on: March 30, 2007, 01:33:41 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on March 30, 2007, 01:17:10 PM

Vagrant Story replay has been dominating my time this week and I expect that to continue through the weekend. 

I need to try that one again.  Got frustrated with the constant weapon switching for every battle and put it down.  After playing through FFXII (which has a similar art style that I love), it might be time to fire it up again.

I'm going to try and find a copy of Viva Pinata today.  Played the demo for a couple hours last night and absolutely loved it.  Will also spend some time with Enchanted Arms, might actually try my hand at some multiplayer Gears of War, and of course, Puzzle Quest.  Gonna be a full gaming weekend!
10026  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: So I'm getting a 360 (and a Gamertag!) on: March 30, 2007, 01:29:26 PM

Quote from: Arclight on March 30, 2007, 09:10:08 AM

Quote from: Gratch on March 30, 2007, 12:08:44 AM

Well, I'm officially online as of tonight.  Gamertag is Skinypupy.  This is my first time ever taking a console online, so it should be interesting.  I'm going to give GoW a shot with the unwashed masses tonight.  I expect that it will all end in tears, but we'll see.  Not sure the best way to get into games with the GT crew, so help a n00b out.  smile

How did it go? Look for me at the edge of the pool dipping my toe in...Not sure if I want to dive in yet........

I was a little surprised.  I got on on about 6:00 my time (MST), and I could only find about 5 active games, all of which were ful.  I thought about starting a new one, but the thought of doing that without having the slightest clue what I was doing was a little daunting.  Decided to try my luck with NHL2K7 instead, and ran into the same thing.  There were only 5 people total online, and I never did actually get into a game.  Somehow I expected there to be more people playing, but maybe they're all in private games or something.

I ended up DL'ing the Viva Pinata demo, and spent about 3 hours fiddling with a garden.  I think I might be buying that one today.   icon_redface

Quote
Gratch, depending upon interest in Rainbow Six, we might not be doing Gears of War tonight.

However, I've sent you a friend request (SensuousLettuce) and we'll see if we can get something going soon.

Thanks ATB.  I'll jump on tonight and see if I have better luck.
10027  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [DS] Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2 - First Pics on: March 30, 2007, 12:24:46 AM

Quote from: Doopri on March 30, 2007, 12:20:17 AM

i LOVED FFT for ps.  seriously loved.  as in so much so that i didnt even try ffta because i knew they had altered it from the glory and majesty that was fft.  did i miss out? should i try this? or will i just swallow that bitter lump of disappointment ive been avoiding for the what 5 years since i skipped ffta?

Having put over 50 hours into both games, I much prefer FFTA.  I'm not sure it is the better game per se, but it just seemed to click with me more than FFT did.  Basically, you're combining FFT's combat & job system with FFIX's skill system (i.e. you equip items in order to gain skills)   and throwing in a pretty basic story.

I'd at least give it a shot and see if you dig it.
10028  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: So I'm getting a 360 (and a Gamertag!) on: March 30, 2007, 12:08:44 AM
Well, I'm officially online as of tonight.  Gamertag is Skinypupy.  This is my first time ever taking a console online, so it should be interesting.  I'm going to give GoW a shot with the unwashed masses tonight.  I expect that it will all end in tears, but we'll see.  Not sure the best way to get into games with the GT crew, so help a n00b out.  smile
10029  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: GTOfficial x360 Live Gamertag REQUEST THREAD on: March 30, 2007, 12:04:45 AM
Well, here goes nothing. 

My gamertag is Skinypupy
10030  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: OO - Uh oh? on: March 29, 2007, 10:20:06 PM

Quote from: Brendan on March 29, 2007, 09:53:38 PM

I would try spyware scanning, were I you.  That looks like some of Their handiwork.

I'll give that a shot.  That was on my system at work, and my home one works fine.

Strange that it would only affect just that one site...
10031  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: OO - Uh oh? on: March 29, 2007, 09:35:06 PM
How bizzare.  When I click that link (in both IE7 and Firefox), I get this:



Every other website works fine.  What the hell would cause that?   icon_confused
10032  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / OO - Uh oh? on: March 29, 2007, 09:25:32 PM
Tried to hit the OO forums and it's linking to a generic "Web Search" page.  Is everyone getting this or is something screwy with my system? 
10033  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Puzzle Quest for DS/PSP on: March 29, 2007, 09:16:04 PM

Quote from: farley2k on March 29, 2007, 08:52:22 PM

I have a knight...any good strategies?  Is everyone a wizard? 

I'm playing a Knight as well, and am up to 20th level.  FWIW, I use very few spells and concentrate more on regular skull attacks.  I do 13 damage on a standard 3 skull combo, and will occasionally use the Stun spell to get in an extra couple combos.  I've mainly been pumping up my Battle and Morale skills (they're both at 21, iirc), and have only put a couple points each into the masteries and cunning.  I've also crafted a couple decent weapons that give me pluses to damage and mana.

Not sure how this build will hold up over the long run, but I've only lost a few times and can take on enemies 3-4 levels higher than me with no problem.  The nice thing is that I'm really not dependent on any particular mana type to succeed.  I can play defensive and try to keep the opponent from gaining mana, but I find that simply focusing on basic skull combos is pretty successful.

Quote
And forgive me if this is in the manual I haven't read it, but what is the downside to losing a battle?  Several battles I have lost, it tells me I got some experience and then I still have to fight that monster again and win for the story to move on.  It seems like it would be a good idea to lose so I could get more experience.  Do I not get as good of items? or some other penalty for losing?

The only disadvantage I see to losing is that you don't get the extra EXP and Gold bonuses you would normally get if you win.  I don't think there's any kind of XP ding for losing.
10034  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: PASTE!!! on: March 29, 2007, 09:07:17 PM

Quote from: Spiff on March 29, 2007, 08:51:13 PM

As it stands right now, for food and drink we have;
107 cases of beer
2 kegs
4 margarita machines
13 batches of liquor for margarita machines
2 blenders
21 bottles of liquor and mixers for blenders
2,500 jello shots
17 cases of soft drinks
10 2-liter bottles of soft drinks
12 cases of drinking water
105 bags of ice
1,300 disposable plastic cups
400 printed plastic cups

4 grills
570 hamburger buns
570 hamburger patties
Condiment Quantities TBD
350 hot dog buns
250 hot dogs
100 brats
100 pounds of crawfish
25 pounds of barbeque
20 pounds of shrimp
10 pounds of chili
38 bags of chips
10 pounds of queso
2 gallons of salsa
1,000 paper plates
1,000 napkins

---------------------------------


Gonna be a helluva tailgate. headbang3

Damn, I'm coming to your party.   icon_eek
10035  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: PASTE!!! on: March 29, 2007, 08:17:19 PM
7 Habits for Managers April/May consultant availability

4/17-18 (this is probably pushing it to get profiles, funding, etc.)

5/7-11, 5/24-25

4/24-27

5/23-24

5/24-25

4/30 Ė 5/2, 5/14-15, 5/21-22
10036  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [DS] Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2 - First Pics on: March 29, 2007, 08:13:45 PM

Quote from: stolazi on March 29, 2007, 07:27:26 PM

I hope they do away with the law system in FFTA2.

+ 1,000.  The law system was nothing but a nuisance, especially in the late game when you were up against 3 different laws at once.
10037  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [DS] Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2 - First Pics on: March 29, 2007, 05:20:07 PM
While in the same genre, FFTA & FFE are vastly different games.  FFTA is about developing individual characters, while FE was much more about team tactics & strategy.  I much prefer the former, which is why I loved FFTA and could never get into FE.

I also think the "kiddie" storyline turned a lot of people off from the get-go.   

10038  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [DS] Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2 - First Pics on: March 29, 2007, 04:55:58 PM
 drool

This is easily my most anticipated game for the DS.
10039  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: I might not be a Consoler... on: March 29, 2007, 04:08:04 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on March 29, 2007, 03:23:54 PM

If you prefer RPGs and do not like shooters or sports games then the 360 is probably not a great investment at this point.  Personally I agree with Jament.  I have too many games and not enough time to play them.  Then again I love shooters.  icon_biggrin

Actually, there are quite a few RPG's coming for the 360.  I think the PS3 will be the RPG console of choice in the long run, but there are quite a few coming for 360 that have potential to be very good.   I picked one up now for that very reason, since I'm mainly an RPG gamer.
10040  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: I might not be a Consoler... on: March 29, 2007, 03:07:33 PM

Quote from: ATB on March 29, 2007, 03:02:13 PM

Quote from: Gratch on March 29, 2007, 02:41:59 PM

Quote from: Purge on March 29, 2007, 02:35:57 PM

Remember guys, in GoW it's all about taking cover.

That's the biggest problem I'm having with GoW.  The few FPS games I've enjoyed have been all about run & gun, while GoW seems much more tactical.  Having to constantly duck behind cover is a foreign concept I'm having some trouble wrapping my brain around.

I'm a pretty decent FPS player with keyboard & mouse, but for some reason have never been able to get a handle on console FPS controls.  I feel like I'm trying to control my guy with an Etch-A-Sketch.

Then never play R6:V. In GoW you at least have a chance of surviving gunblasts to the face and chest. In RS:V you are D double E to teh A back upta da D.

Yeah, can't see myself enjoying that one much.  I tried both GRAW and whatever the latest Splinter Cell game is, and completely lost interest within about 15 minutes.  Part of it is that I simply don't like the military setting, part of it is that I simply don't have the patience for that sort of thing.

Mind you, I'm not opposed to a more stealth-oriented game.  Hell, I loved both the Thief & Tenchu series.  I guess if I'm a ninja or medieval thief, it's just far more appealing.
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