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10001  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Games finished in 2008 - console and PC... go! go! go! on: January 02, 2008, 02:43:28 AM
-  Rock Band - Feb 1'ish - A (I'm going to consider this completed, as I've beaten every guitar & drum song at least on Hard)
-  Final Fantasy VII:  Crisis Core - April 13 B+
-  Final Fantasy Tactics:  War of the Lions - May 4 A++++
-  Bioshock - May 27 - A- (would have been an A, but the ending stunk)
-  Planescape:  Torment - June 19 - A+ (not an A+ in the world that describes how good it was)
-  Penny Arcade:  On the Rain Soaked Precipice of Darkness - June 22 - C+ (felt really short for the $20 price tag)
-  Civilization Revolution - June 19 - B (excellent PC to console conversion.  Will have a ton of replay value)
-  Jade Empire - July 24 - A- (second time was the charm with this one, much better on PC than XBox)
-  Fable II - November 1 - B (solid but unspectacular)
-  Rock Band 2 - November 16 - B+ (fun, but I'm getting a bit burned out on the genre)
-  Jewel Quest II - November 20 - B+ (normally wouldn't include iPhone games, but this one was a blast and I spent quite a few hours with it)
-  Titan Quest - December 2 - B (good take on the Diablo formula, but it gets pretty repetitive towards the end.  Crappy ending, as usual.)

-  King's Bounty

-  Lost Odyssey (360)
-  Patapon (PSP)
-  Etrian Odyssey (DS)
-  God of War:  Chains of Olympus (PSP)
-  Final Fantasy:  Crystal Chronicles (DS)
-  Guild Wars (PC)
-  The Witcher (PC)
-  Dungeon Siege (PSP)
-  GTA IV (360)
-  Hot Shots Golf 2 (PSP)
-  FF Tactics Advance 2
-  Titan Quest
-  Tales of Vesperia
10002  Non-Gaming / Trading Forum / F/S or F/T: Assassin's Creed (360) **SOLD** on: December 31, 2007, 05:00:35 PM
$35 shipped or trade for:  **sold**

- The Witcher
- Guild Wars: Factions (would probably need to throw in little $$ to even this one out)
10003  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: How's the 3rd Pirates of the Caribbean movie? on: December 30, 2007, 06:12:50 AM
Mrs. Gratch wanted to see this, so we picked it up on PPV tonight. 

I can say without hesitation that Pirates 3 is absolutely, positively, without any doubt whatsoever one of the worst movies I have ever seen.  It's not very often you see suck of that magnitude, but that was truly an epic fail on every single possible level.   The story was completely incomprehensible, the "action" was ridiculous, the characters (even Depp, who I loved in the first two) were mind-numbingly dull, and I think my eyes actually hurt from rolling them so much.  What an absolute turd and a complete waste of what was once a very promising franchise.
10004  Gaming / Multiplayer Madness (MMO or otherwise) / Re: What MMO's are everyone doing these days? on: December 29, 2007, 10:13:09 PM
I started Guild Wars this month, and much to my surprise, have really been enjoying it.  This is the first MMO that I've ever played for more than 2 weeks, and have put nearly 60 hours into it the past month.   Even picked up two of the three expansions for X-mas.  The little things that make all the difference: 

-  I really don't like gaming with other people, so I needed something that was very solo friendly.  GW fits that bill perfectly. 
-  It's free, so I don't feel like I have to play in order to get my $$ worth.
-  I can either play for 4 hours or a half hour and still have fun.  It's not something I have to plan my life around just to play.
-  My brother also started up, so it's good to be able to spend some time with him, even if it is just virtual (he's in Nashville and I'm in Salt Lake)

None of the another MMOs really interest me, but GW has been great fun so far.
10005  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Any Console Games From This Generation Added to Your Permanent Collection? on: December 29, 2007, 08:45:34 PM

Quote from: Dante Rising on December 29, 2007, 07:45:45 PM

I've always wondered how many people collect games assuming they'll go back and play them again, but then they never do. Gaming turns out to be an expensive hobby if you fall into that trap. If you rent, or buy and then make an immediate auction upon completing the game you can usually get way with only spending $7-$15 on a game.

But if you pay $60 for a game, convince yourself that it belongs in your replay collection, but then never play it again- you can easily burn through several hundred to a few thousand dollars a year.

I typically sell games once I finish or get bored with them, but have a bad habit of getting an urge to play again and rebuying them a year or two down the road.  I'm trying to be better about determining which games are "no-sells" and which aren't, but I still end up purchasing a ton of games twice.  In fact, I rebought Okami & Oblivion just yesterday.   icon_redface

There's only a few games from the current generation that I know will be permanent:

-  Rock Band (360)
-  Guitar Hero II (360)
-  Mass Effect (360) - This one is on the fence, pending on how far I get through a replay
-  Final Fantasy Tactics:  War of the Lions (PSP)
-  Oblivion (360, although I played it mainly on PC)
-  Puzzle Quest (360)

Come to think of it, there's not many from last generation either:

-  Final Fantasy X (PS2)
-  Final Fantasy XII (PS2)
-  Okami (PS2)
-  Knights of the Old Republic (XBox)
-  Beyond Good & Evil (XBox)

It amazes me that with as many games as I play, what I listed above is nearly my entire console gaming collection (the only other games I own are Assassin's Creed & the PSP Dungeon Siege).
10006  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Jeanne D'Arc Impressions on: December 29, 2007, 06:36:51 AM

Quote from: KC on December 26, 2007, 01:26:57 PM

Quote from: Canuck on December 26, 2007, 01:08:16 PM

I hope I can beat this so that I can finally open up Brave Story New Traveler!

I finished both and thought that Jeanne D'Arc was better.  It may be because there are a lot more JRPGs than JSRPGs available.  Brave Story was competent, but nothing new.

I would agree.  I got bored pretty quickly with Brave Story.
10007  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [PSP] Warriors of the Lost Empire on: December 28, 2007, 03:44:08 PM
Strange that I can't find a single review or even a preview of this game.  Had never even heard of it before this thread.  That typically sets off all kids of warning bells, but I sure would love a good hack n' slash for the PSP.  Very tempted to give this a try, but the lack of any info at all makes me a little nervous.   Might just go pick up the Dungeon Siege game instead.

Quote from: Jarrodhk on December 24, 2007, 01:40:34 PM

icon_biggrin Yeah, pretty standard 'armor is for looks not function' mode of dress.  The first armor upgrade for the gladiator even says in the text 'the chest is left exposed to show courage'.  eff courage!  I want some protection!

Unless the character is female, of course.  slywink
10008  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Video game Christmas (or other winter solstice holiday) hauls!!! on: December 28, 2007, 12:37:23 PM

Quote from: Canuck on December 28, 2007, 09:41:25 AM

I've never gotten a video game in my life from my parents.  To get 10 all in one Christmas-wow.  Honestly it seems like a bit of a waste-I mean, how many games can you play at one time? anyways?

Same here.  My family steadfastly refuses to support my gaming addiction.  smile

I did buy myself Guild Wars:  Nightfall and Eye of the North with some of my X-mas money.  Does that count?
10009  Non-Gaming / Trading Forum / L/F: The Witcher (PC), Dungeon Siege: ToA (PSP) on: December 27, 2007, 11:37:11 PM
Nothing really to trade, so let me know how much you want for either one.
10010  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Mass Effect Impressions: Release Day Edition on: December 27, 2007, 11:36:19 PM

Quote from: JCC on December 27, 2007, 05:39:09 PM

I actually find the inventory interface to be vastly superior to the KOTOR one. I mean it's WAY better. As in, I am amazed so many people hate it. I find it much easier to deal with. I love transferring items to ominigel to get rid of extra crap. Does it get worse later on?

Once you start hitting the inventory limit, it becomes a PITA.   The main problem is that it defaults back to the top of the list once you turn an item into omni-gel.  There were times when I would need to onmi-gel multiple items to make inventory space.  Instead of being able to do multiple items at once, you have to scroll through the massive list to find it, select one individual item, hit 'Y', then do it over again for each item.  Just a really stupid design decision that I imagine could have been easily fixed.
10011  Non-Gaming / Steals and Deals / Re: Massive Steam sale going on right now!! on: December 27, 2007, 11:31:29 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on December 27, 2007, 09:14:11 PM

Is that for the new one?  I think my brother was kind of "meh" on the newer one, which is sad because he really loves Pirate games (we played the hell out of the original).

Yep, the new one.  Granted, I never played the original, but I really liked this remade version.  Nothing that will knock your socks off, mind you, but certainly a very entertaining game.  I just traded a GT'er for the PSP version, and can't wait to get started again.

How much is that going for?  Now that there's a way to get the game without giving any money back to Funcom (hmm... maybe I should get a used copy...), I might get it.  I liked TLJ, and would like to see how the story continues.

$18 through Steam, and about the same used.  Dreamfall's story is one of the best I've ever seen, but I wish I would have played TLJ first.  Dreamfall would probably have made a lot more sense.   As good as the story is, the game does have it's warts.  They tried to implement both combat and stealth mechanics, both of which failed pretty miserably.  Thankfully, the times you're required to use them are few and far between, and don't detract from the experience.
10012  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [psp] disgaea: afternoon of darkness impressions on: December 27, 2007, 08:39:10 PM

Quote from: KC on December 27, 2007, 08:36:46 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on December 27, 2007, 08:32:54 PM

In my opinion Disgaea would not be a good first SRPG.  Many of the mechanics are pretty convoluted and the game can be pretty daunting at first.  I'd reccomend FF Tactics for the PSP.  It has a very linear path and much easier to understand leveling system. 

I think that Jeanne D'Arc would make an ever better starter SRPG.  It's linear and you can get the game mechanics down pretty quickly.  Since it is often described as a lite-SRPG, you can quickly upgrade to more complex games like FFT.

I would agree.  FFT, while brilliant, is difficult to get the hang of and is a pretty complex game.  Same with Disgaea, and playing for a long time without knowing exactly what you're doing can lead to problems.  Jeanne is definitely an easier game to get into and is very SRPG noob friendly.
10013  Non-Gaming / Steals and Deals / Re: Massive Steam sale going on right now!! on: December 27, 2007, 08:35:56 PM

Quote from: Dimmona on December 24, 2007, 08:53:46 PM

Secret admission: I've never played Pirates before - worth it for $26 giving all of the other good games out right now?

Pirates! is a fantastic game, but $26 seems a bit pricey.

I've been itching to replay Dreamfall, and might give it a shot with this sale.  This is assuming, of course, that I can get my Steam connection to work.  Had to reformat over the weekend, and have been having trouble getting logged on ever since.  I keep getting a generic 'Cannot connect to Steam' message.  Irritating...
10014  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [psp] disgaea: afternoon of darkness impressions on: December 27, 2007, 08:28:26 PM
I somewhat enjoyed Disgaea on PS2, but got pretty frustrated with it as well.  I really disliked the mechanic of only the final blow character getting XP.  I can't remember exactly what I did, but I also remember finding out 25+ hours in that I had seriously gimped my characters, and it was nearly impossible to get them up back up to speed.

I've got some x-mas $$ burning a hole in my pocket, and am thinking this PSP version might be worth a second look.
10015  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: This Is Fun Pt 3: This Time It's Personal! (possibly NSFW) on: December 27, 2007, 12:46:45 AM

10016  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band Impressions! on: December 26, 2007, 11:20:29 PM
Got to play local multiplayer for the first time today.  Man, what a absolute blast that was.  At one point, I actually had my wife, my mother, and my sister-in-law all playing Say it Ain't So.  Of the thousands of gaming moments this household has seen, that was truly one of the most amazing.  When Mrs. Gratch picked up the mic, I honestly think hell may have frozen over.

Also got to spend a couple hours in World Tour mode with my brother.  It's certainly fun, but some of the difficulty seemed way off.  We tried a random set at one of the first locations, and it threw Flirtin' With Disaster at us.  He's only played a few times, and failed pretty quickly.  Set it up again, it came up with ...And Justice for All, and we failed a second time.  I know it's a random set, but I would think the game would scale some of the difficulty of the songs, at least for the first few locations.  Other than that, we had a great time.
10017  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: So, what did you get for Christmas? on: December 26, 2007, 04:53:47 AM

Quote from: Chaz on December 26, 2007, 04:03:23 AM

Quote from: Gratch on December 26, 2007, 01:47:47 AM

-  3 new board games

Well, don't keep us in suspense.  What games?

Motley Fool's Buy Low - Sell High
Ark of the Covenant

Haven't played any of them yet, but they are all supposed to be very fun.
10018  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: So, what did you get for Christmas? on: December 26, 2007, 01:47:47 AM
-  Tickets to see Blue Man Group in February
-  Tickets for me, Mrs. Gratch, and any two other friends of my choosing to attend the remaining 10 University of Utah b-ball games.  (coolest.  present.  ever.)
-  DVD's:  Stardust, Live Free or Die Hard, Ratatouille, Rat Race, Goonies, box set of old Jackie Chan flicks, and a couple others
-  $250 cash/gift cards
-  3 pair of new shoes (soccer shoes, dress shoes, & casual shoes)
-  3 new board games
-  Guild Wars: Eye of the North & Nightfall expansions
-  New comforter for the bed
-  New sport coat

I'm really spoiled.  smile

10019  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Quick 360 question on: December 25, 2007, 10:36:37 PM
I know I asked this once, but can't remember how to do it for the life of me.  How do I set it up so it stops flashing "XXX is online" whenever someone from my friends list logs on?  It's quite annoying while watching a movie.

They've hidden this option extremely well, as I've spent the last 20 minutes trying to find it on all the different option settings.
10020  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Assassin's Creed Reviews on: December 24, 2007, 12:59:40 AM
Anyone else have trouble getting the AC update to install?  Every time I try to do the update, I get an error that says it can't install and that I should run the network connection tests.    They all say everything is fine, and I have no problem connecting to MP in any other games.
10021  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Test your Sci Fi knowledge on: December 22, 2007, 09:50:58 PM
85%, and I guessed on about half.
10022  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Burnout Paradise : DEMO IMPRESSIONS! (newfangled poll too!) on: December 22, 2007, 06:58:22 PM
now here's the thing though...I have never played any Burnouts at any point in time, not even demos.  so this is truly my first experience of the franchise.  I have no idea what you complainers are talking about when it comes to 'Crash mode' or 'Showtime' or anything else.  also, I am a huge fan of open-world games in general, which most of you don't seem to like for some reason.  now as far as the retry issue, I can at least understand that somewhat.  but it seems like a minor issue to me

The open world design (in race structure and especially in crash mode) is a 180 degree change from the previous games in the series.   For someone who has never played a Burnout game, they probably won't be an issue.  For some of us that have, it's a jarring transition that somewhat flies in the face of what the Burnout games have been about:  fast, exciting, straight-up arcade racing without having to muck about with tedious open-world exploration nonsense.  When playing a Burnout game, I want to race...not drive around looking for a race.  But that's just me.

Sounds like the devs were shooting for absolutely no loading screens, which I've never really understood the huge problem with.  As long as loading times are not overly excessive (which the previous Burnout games weren't), I just consider them part of a game.  I find it amusing that people get their panties in such a bunch over them.

Quote from: Misguided on December 22, 2007, 03:40:25 PM

Yup, that's what I was referring to (the part about completionist types).
The demo appeared to be mising a waypoint system and also a way
to quickly see what events you haven't completed/gotten top scores on.

Sounds to me like it's not "missing" those things, they are not included this time.  Hence, my interest in the game going from a "day-one" purchase to a "maybe sometime next year in a bargin bin" purchase.
10023  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What did you save for your Christmas list? on: December 22, 2007, 03:18:26 PM
Final Fantasy XII:  Revenant Wings (DS) and Disgaea (PSP).  I highly, highly doubt I'll get either one, but they're both on 'the list'.

I am fairly sure I'll be getting Guild Wars:  Nightfall from my brother though, so that's a plus.
10024  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Which Fall Releases did you end up Buying? on: December 20, 2007, 09:50:59 PM
-  Mass Effect
-  Rock Band
-  Assassin's Creed
-  Puzzle Quest
-  Guitar Hero 3

-  Jeanne D'Arc
-  FF Tactics

-  Hellgate:  London (wish I had that $$ back)
10025  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band Impressions! on: December 20, 2007, 02:07:26 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on December 20, 2007, 02:05:56 PM

Quote from: nymanium on December 20, 2007, 04:23:07 AM

the drums are a bit noisy and I'm looking into ways to quiten them a little, anyone have any ideas.

Someone else did a foam mod and said it worked well; but from the instructions it sounds like you need a bit more material than what I did.

Per another forum's recommendation, I bought four cheap-o Staples  Round Mouse Pads and double-sided taped them black side up on the drum pads.

You do have to trim them a bit to fit, but since they're already round and close to the right size, it's not too hard at all.  Really cuts down on the sound, gives a bit extra bounce, and looks good.

I put the mouse pads on mine, and really like it.  A lot less noisy, and the drums actually seem to be a bit more responsive.
10026  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: The Escapist: Zero Punctuation on: December 19, 2007, 10:48:07 PM

Quote from: Destructor on December 19, 2007, 05:56:47 PM

And before somebody posts this in the console forum (Tongue), here's a link to today's 'review':

Mass Effect.

His first "miss", imo.  Not that I disagree with his points, I just didn't find it very funny.
10027  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band Impressions! on: December 18, 2007, 09:57:54 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on December 18, 2007, 03:55:46 PM

Quote from: jersoc on December 17, 2007, 07:36:41 PM

I'm STILL waiting on my replacment over 2 weeks later. Getting pretty frustrated here.

I guess this is the list of games you can get from EA if you fall into the "long wait" compensation category:

Command & Conquer 3
Command & Conquer First Decade
Harry Potter
Medal of Honor Airborne
Nascar 08
NBA Live 08
Need for Speed Pro Street
NHL 08
Rock Band
The Simpsons
The Sims
Tiger Woods 08

This is supposedly from the official forums, but I haven't verified it myself.

Yep, that's legit.  Got my "free game" e-mail this afternoon.  Now I just have to decide between NHL 08 and FIFA 08.

EDIT:  Hmmmm, copies of TW 08 and Skate are going for $45 on E-bay.  Since I'm not really dying for anything on that list, one of those might be a better option...
10028  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What's your GOAT of the year for 2007? on: December 18, 2007, 03:57:55 PM
Somehow Guitar Hero III slipped my mind.  It would run neck and neck with HG:  L as a top GOAT candidate.
10029  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What's your GOAT of the year for 2007? on: December 18, 2007, 03:07:41 PM

Quote from: Purge on December 18, 2007, 02:18:40 PM

Oh, and Zelda PH ... do. not. want. After all the hype here, it just fell way short of it.

I was beginning to think I was the only person on Earth who didn't like Zelda PH
10030  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What's your GOAT of the year for 2007? on: December 18, 2007, 04:13:03 AM
Hellgate London.  They took a genre I typically enjoy, put it in a setting I would typically love...then somehow managed to suck all the fun right out of it.
10031  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band Impressions! on: December 17, 2007, 06:48:12 PM

Quote from: Zarkon on December 17, 2007, 06:41:37 PM

I may have a guitar issue.  The guitar plays fine, but is somewhat unresponsive for Overpower.  I sometime have to seriously lift and lower the guitar multiple times to get it to work.  Other times, I can be bobbing my body with the music...and set it off.

I had this problem as well.  Couldn't get overdrive to activate at all on my first guitar.  Sent it back and got a replacement that activates at the slightest movement.   I've given up on it and am just using my Xplorer. 
10032  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Whatchadoin over the Holidays? on: December 17, 2007, 03:12:33 PM
Not a lot, really.  My brother and his family are in town, so I'm sure we'll spend a lot of time with them.  I'll even finally get to play some multi-player Rock Band!!  Other than that, it will probably just be watching movies, paying a little attention to bowl games, playing some Guild Wars, and generally being lazy.
10033  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Kid gets detention because he used Firefox on: December 17, 2007, 12:55:04 PM

Quote from: Sarkus on December 17, 2007, 07:32:45 AM

Quote from: Turtle on December 17, 2007, 03:27:32 AM

On the other hand, they should get people who know what they're doing to run the computer labs.

I'm sorry, but if following directions means using an old bug and exploit prone browser, I'll safely go my own way and use firefox.

If anything, the kid showed more initiative which is what'll make him more successful than following directions all the time.

I agree, but I also know that because of past controversies many schools are using modifications and settings on their browser software in order to restrict internet access and keep kids away from porn, etc.  If you allow kids to show up with their own browser, you might as well not bother blocking IE. 

We aren't talking about a college here, it's a high school junior.  A high school junior who refused to follow the teacher's directions to use the school supplied materials.

That's a really good point.  Since school districts get sued for anything at the drop of a hat, it makes sense that a teacher would be required to very strictly enforce the use of "approved" programs.  If Little Johnny was using the "Foxfire" browser and managed to pull up a porn site, I'm sure the parents would have no problem going after the school.
10034  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: New trailers - FFXIII and FF Versus XIII - PS3 exclusives on: December 17, 2007, 12:49:20 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on December 17, 2007, 06:12:36 AM

yeah, who could forget FFX-2: Charlies Angels!

I'm trying to, trust me.
10035  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: Kid gets detention because he used Firefox on: December 17, 2007, 04:24:39 AM
I'm still trying to figure out what "Foxfire.exe" is.  Maybe it's Firefox's malicious twin, in which case, he deserves detention.  Damn punk kids.  slywink
10036  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: New trailers - FFXIII and FF Versus XIII - PS3 exclusives on: December 17, 2007, 04:19:41 AM
EDIT:  Never mind, sorry for the derail.
10037  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: New trailers - FFXIII and FF Versus XIII - PS3 exclusives on: December 17, 2007, 03:48:55 AM

Quote from: Turtle on December 17, 2007, 02:57:39 AM

No problem Gratch, there'll be plenty of other games to play on the PS3 by the time FF13 comes out. slywink

Heh, I'll believe that when I see it.
10038  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: New trailers - FFXIII and FF Versus XIII - PS3 exclusives on: December 17, 2007, 02:36:37 AM
Looks great, but I'm still not paying $400 for a system to play 2 games.
10039  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What is Your Game of the Year? on: December 16, 2007, 05:04:57 PM
After much thought and deliberation, I'm going with Jeanne D'Arc as my GOTY, with Rock Band as a close second and Mass Effect as number 3.  When I think about it, I simply had more fun with Jeanne than anything else released this year.  isn't that really all that matters in the end?  Hell, Jeanne even got me to rebuy a system that I swore I would never spend money on again.  smile  Rock Band drums and vocals are fantastic, but I'm not crazy about either the lower guitar track difficulty or the guitar hardware itself.  Mass Effect had an incredible main storyline, but the same-y side missions got on my nerves after a while. 

Side note:  Jeanne is the best game I've played that came out this year, but certainly not the best I played overall.  That title would got to either Baldur's Gate II (PC), Dreamfall (PC), or Final Fantasy VI (GBA).  All three of these are heads and shoulders above anything that came out this year, imo.
10040  Non-Gaming / Off-Topic / Re: NFL Week 15 on: December 16, 2007, 02:55:14 PM

Quote from: GatorFavre on December 16, 2007, 07:06:40 AM

Quote from: Gratch on December 15, 2007, 10:22:50 PM

Every year, the 72 Dolphins become bigger and bigger a-holes.  This year takes the cake.

I don't get it... what in that article makes them assholes?  A bunch of guys joking around about the situation?  Yeah some of them brought up the spygate crap, but if you were in their situation you know you'd at least be thinking about it. 

From everything I've read about them, I doubt they were joking.
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