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13761  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: 2008 Gaming Predictions? on: January 14, 2008, 11:34:51 PM

Quote from: jblank on January 14, 2008, 05:03:11 PM


Gears of War gets bumped back to 2009 and Halo Wars steps in as the big November 360 release.


I predict that if Halo Wars is the big November release, Microsoft will have a lousy Christmas.
13762  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: 2008 Gaming Predictions? on: January 14, 2008, 04:21:48 PM
Oh, look, new Wiii colors are coming: http://kotaku.com/344348/new-wii-colours-coming-sooner-rather-than-never
13763  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: 2008 Gaming Predictions? on: January 14, 2008, 04:21:36 PM
Didn't someone predict new Wii colors this year?  If not, I'm predictiing it now.
13764  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What are you buying this week? (1/14) on: January 14, 2008, 04:07:59 PM
Wii:
Furu Furu Park - I have a weird interest in these mini game collections, and this one is chock full of bizarre Japanese flavor, but it's probably lame
Nitrobike - I've heard this is fun in an Excite Truck kind of way, so maybe
Samurai Warriors: KATANA - I doubt this will be good, but if it pulls out some good reviews I might give it a glance

DS:
Nanostray 2 - the first one was close but no cigar for most reviews, if the second one gets closer, I could be tempted

PC:
Battlefield 2142 Deluxe Edition is also coming at the end of this week, apparently.  I may be getting that.
13765  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Goldeneye coming to XBLA on: January 13, 2008, 06:51:48 PM
Boo on the thread title.
13766  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: 2008 Gaming Predictions? on: January 12, 2008, 05:27:10 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on January 12, 2008, 04:42:15 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on January 12, 2008, 01:36:23 AM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on January 12, 2008, 12:20:09 AM

Quote
I believe that the Trend Network will grow by one as a new site is launched. 

I need to revise my statement.... the Trend Network WILL grow by one, but MAY grow by TWO!  (I should have my goddamned head examined...I bought a new URL today.  I'm not ready to share though...)

wait.... what?

It is my 'most confusing way possible' of saying I'll be launching another site this year - possibly two more sites.   Announcements "Coming Soon" (TM)

Ooh, I'm predicting one of them will be the uber-meta site GamingTrendTrend.
13767  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: 2008 Gaming Predictions? on: January 12, 2008, 04:18:23 AM

Quote from: CeeKay on January 12, 2008, 01:36:23 AM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on January 12, 2008, 12:20:09 AM

Quote
I believe that the Trend Network will grow by one as a new site is launched. 

I need to revise my statement.... the Trend Network WILL grow by one, but MAY grow by TWO!  (I should have my goddamned head examined...I bought a new URL today.  I'm not ready to share though...)

wait.... what?

Nice callback!
13768  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band Impressions! on: January 11, 2008, 06:28:20 PM

Quote from: Turtle on January 11, 2008, 06:19:57 PM

Ugh, I find myself buying every song in general just so I have a larger selection when guests come over to play.

Unfortunately my guitar broke so its being replaced.

I've been doing the same thing.  Except I was waiting to see if they'd release combo packs for some of the songs.

I have no problem buying Rock Band songs vs GHIII tracks.  I guess the 60 points difference in song packs made enough of a difference.
13769  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Kane and Lynch sells over 1 million copies..? on: January 11, 2008, 03:34:43 PM
You know, if you take a minute and look here:  http://www.gamingtrend.com/forums/index.php/topic,24063.0.html, you'll see that K&L is actually getting some positive feedback from the hardcore crowd right on this very site. 

I've had the game since it came out, but was saving it for the time when nothing was coming out, and I needed something "new."  That time came sooner than I expected.  I played through a bunch of levels and had a good time with it.

Basically, it's a good shooter that came out during a time when there were a bunch of great shooters.
13770  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: 2008 Gaming Predictions? on: January 11, 2008, 03:30:22 PM
I don't think the PSP will win any month any year.  The DS is WAY too far out in front.

I do think the 360 will win at least one month, but still be in the minority.

I predict that I will also have a PS3 in the next 18 months, if only for Blu-Ray, but I will not be a Sony fanboi.

I predict that Microsoft will attempt to join the motion-sensing crowd with about the same success as Sony, further solidifying Nintendo's brilliance in this area.  Or, MS will realize that they're about to do just that and pull out.

I predict that PS3 will have no system seller until September of this year, but they will have a great Christmas.  EVEN IF Microsoft works out Blu-Ray support.

I predict Microsoft will have Blu-Ray support by September.

I predict Purge will not say anything for the rest of the year as dead-on as

Quote from: Purge on January 11, 2008, 01:41:08 PM

Wii's are the new weed (gateway drug). Not everyone goes hardcore, but they sure as hell are keeping dealers busy.

13771  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: 360 BC winding down on: January 11, 2008, 03:18:45 PM
I play Xbox games once or twice a month, sometimes for extended periods.  I do the same with Gamecube games.

I have two neighbors who bought Wiis recently.  One of the things they liked about them was that they could buy GC games for their kids cheap (although they didn't like that they had to get other controllers).

I do think it's a factor.  Then again, I think MS feel like they've met that factor.  They can trumpet BC to the average consumer and not be lying.
13772  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: 360 BC winding down on: January 11, 2008, 05:05:59 AM
The MS BS is cranking up.

They pull this stunt every once in a while to see what kind of outrage it gets.  If it's a justifiably low amount, they'll probably stop the program.  Seems like a weird time, though, when they just added Xbox Originals to the mix.  It may be because they'd rather have people pay for games again rather than play games they already own.

On a side note, the 360 recently borked a bunch of my saves for BC titles.  I'd just put a lot of work into the original GTA III, too.
13773  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Soul Calibur IV to feature...Vader and Yoda? on: January 10, 2008, 06:17:35 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on January 10, 2008, 05:31:56 PM

Quote from: Purge on January 10, 2008, 05:22:27 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on January 10, 2008, 03:19:18 PM

Cortosis Weave

Hair Extensions for Sentient AI loaded into master chief? What will they think up next?

a playable Superman character who can rip the shield off his chest, throw it and have it engulf his opponent in saran wrap?

LOL!
13774  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [360] DMoMM: Elements - Demo Impressions on: January 10, 2008, 05:39:38 PM

Quote from: Calvin on January 10, 2008, 05:24:26 PM

Quote from: Soulchilde on January 10, 2008, 05:09:30 PM

Quote from: Calvin on January 10, 2008, 04:25:22 PM

Quote from: Starshifter on January 10, 2008, 04:19:37 PM

Quote from: Calvin on January 10, 2008, 04:10:25 PM

Color us all shocked you love a bad game.

Who said this is a bad game Rage, uh Calvin?  It's averaging 75% for the PC and 88% for the 360 on Gamerankings and it has not even come out yet for the 360!  Besides, I couldn't care less about reviews anyway.  Like I said a billion times before I buy and play what is fun to me.

Ok, lets get over something here. "Accidentally" calling me by a forum handle I haven't used in two years is not funny and it does nothing to prove your point. You are infatuated with a fictional video game character from possibly the worst 360 game released last year. this game, while averaging 75% on the PC, is from all evidence, a complete simplification and dumbing down of the experience on the 360 (perhaps you should read the impressions above). My guessing that this will turn out to be a bad game are grounded in the previews I have read and the evidence I have seen. Your predeliction of finding the best from mediocrity does nothing to change the fact that most discerning gamers will indeed think that this game is bad.

Actually, I kinda like it too  paranoid banned

Now you are just trying to cause trouble  ninja

Sorry, Calvin, I liked the demo also.  Certainly more than Kingdom Under Fire: Circle of Doom.  I think I'll be getting it soon after release.
13775  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band: Meet the Bands! on: January 10, 2008, 05:20:01 PM

Quote from: Starshifter on January 10, 2008, 03:41:55 PM

icon_lol

Great one Crayola!  Love Emogency!  Although I would replace Nurse Ratched with Nurse McCall.  Dixie McCall from Emergency.

I absolutely love the custom guitars!!!  Great job!

Cuckoos Nest trumps Emergency.
13776  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band: Meet the Bands! on: January 10, 2008, 03:04:10 PM
Emogency is a great named and you have a well-designed look, too.

My F*in' Squirrels are pretty hodgepodge by comparison.
13777  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: IGN gives Eternal Sonata an 8.3 on: January 10, 2008, 06:07:03 AM
I've been meaning to get back into Eternal Sonata all week, but I keep finding other things to play.

Just came one step closer to finishing Twilight Princess, in fact.
13778  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Soul Calibur IV to feature...Vader and Yoda? on: January 10, 2008, 12:55:38 AM

Quote from: Thin_J on January 10, 2008, 12:34:41 AM

Quote from: TheMissingLink
Then again, we did see Spawn, Link and Heihachi in SC2...

At least Spawn and Heihachi fit the game's aesthetic. Vader and Yoda are so out of place it's not even worth it for the novelty.

Thumbs down.

I disagree.  At least Yoda and Vader have sword-type weapons.  Spawn's axe felt tacked-on.  He has a modern day story line and attitude that was jarring.  Not to say Yoda and Vader aren't jarring as well, I'm just saying they fit better than Spawn.
13779  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Minty green PSP..uh...ewww on: January 09, 2008, 09:48:46 PM
I like it, too.
13780  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Rock Band Impressions! on: January 09, 2008, 09:47:06 PM
The drums were supposed to be out in February, but got pushed back to March.
13781  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What are you buying this week? (1/7) on: January 09, 2008, 04:40:48 AM

Quote from: Destructor on January 09, 2008, 12:36:58 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on January 08, 2008, 10:29:34 PM

I'm interested, but I'm pissed at Nintendo for not allowing us to use the SD card to play games.  I'm out of space (I'm aware that I can download them or move them to the SD card and move them back, but that's just a pain in the ass).  I wrote them an e-mail saying I was done with VC.  No response, of course.

Security and nothing more, IMHO. Once they allow using the SD card to play games, it'll only be a matter of time before the security gets cracked and allows people to play ANY NES/SNES/Genesis/TG16/NEO GEO on their Wii assuming they have the game's ROM somewhere on their HD.

And frankly, that's too much money for Nintendo to have just thrown away. On that note, I wonder how much cash Nintendo makes on all their VC titles...

The Wii's been cracked anyway.  And you can move the games freely from the SD Card to the Wii harddrive, so what's to prevent someone from tinkering with it and then moving it back?  It just removes a step, not the problem.
13782  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What are you buying this week? (1/7) on: January 08, 2008, 10:29:34 PM

Quote from: kronovan on January 08, 2008, 09:09:38 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on January 08, 2008, 08:50:42 PM

Quote from: Destructor on January 08, 2008, 07:48:17 PM

Quote from: kathode on January 08, 2008, 03:46:18 AM

Man I loved Startropics!  Blasting mofos with a yoyo never gets old  ninja2

But hmm, wasn't there some sort of puzzle that involved a piece of paper in the box for that one?  Wonder how they'll get around that. 

It's gotta be in the digital 'manual' you download. Only thing I can think of.

And yes, I too remember having to dunk that paper into water to reveal the secret code. Very cool for its time.

It is in the manual.  It even has an option to dunk it in virtual water.

Yup, I read someone's description of that on the vc-reviews site; very cool indeed. I'll be downloading it sometime this week.  slywink

I'm interested, but I'm pissed at Nintendo for not allowing us to use the SD card to play games.  I'm out of space (I'm aware that I can download them or move them to the SD card and move them back, but that's just a pain in the ass).  I wrote them an e-mail saying I was done with VC.  No response, of course.


Also, IGN's reviews of Harvey Birdman for the PS2 and PSP are in, and they seem to like it.  7.4.
13783  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What are you buying this week? (1/7) on: January 08, 2008, 08:50:42 PM

Quote from: Destructor on January 08, 2008, 07:48:17 PM

Quote from: kathode on January 08, 2008, 03:46:18 AM

Man I loved Startropics!  Blasting mofos with a yoyo never gets old  ninja2

But hmm, wasn't there some sort of puzzle that involved a piece of paper in the box for that one?  Wonder how they'll get around that. 

It's gotta be in the digital 'manual' you download. Only thing I can think of.

And yes, I too remember having to dunk that paper into water to reveal the secret code. Very cool for its time.

It is in the manual.  It even has an option to dunk it in virtual water.
13784  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: The Club - Demo Tomorrow on XBL on: January 08, 2008, 07:25:07 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on January 08, 2008, 06:25:57 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on January 08, 2008, 06:23:35 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on January 08, 2008, 02:55:56 PM

By 'tomorrow' did you mean 'the day after tomorrow'?  I don't see it.

edit: ah, I see. 9am GMT.  I was thinking EST.  My would they do it so late?

My, indeed.

pfft!  crybaby

Beware the Typo Pointer-Outers.  We lurk.  We lurk.  Mwahahahaha.
13785  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: The Club - Demo Tomorrow on XBL on: January 08, 2008, 06:23:35 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on January 08, 2008, 02:55:56 PM

By 'tomorrow' did you mean 'the day after tomorrow'?  I don't see it.

edit: ah, I see. 9am GMT.  I was thinking EST.  My would they do it so late?

My, indeed.
13786  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What are you buying this week? (1/7) on: January 08, 2008, 06:23:06 PM
I'd think twice about KUF:COD, guys.

The only positive review is from Play "We Love Everything" Magazine.

65% on GameRankings, and that's with Play's 80%.

Harvey Birdman isn't doing much better.  Also at 65%, but it's only one review.  However, the PSP version got 50% from Worth Playing.  They said:
Quote
...while Phoenix Wright is a clever and well designed adventure game that combines humor with puzzle-solving, Harvey Birdman is a hollow-feeling experience that, while occasionally humorous, leaves one wishing he could just watch the episodes on TV instead. This game would be good for fans of the show only, and even they might want to be cautious, due to the title's gameplay brevity and lack of replayability.
13787  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Lode Runner remake coming to XBLA on: January 08, 2008, 06:15:21 PM

Quote from: EddieA on January 08, 2008, 06:41:41 AM

A graphically updated version of Lode Runner is coming to XBLA sometime later this year, according to Worthplaying.  Unfortunately, you now play as some sort of dorky skier.



Looking at that picture, are you sure this isn't a remake of Jonny Moseley Mad Trix?
13788  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [Wii] Nyko Perfect Shot Impressions on: January 07, 2008, 03:28:00 PM
I've been having an even harder time finding the Thrustmaster gamepad for the Wii (called the T-Wireless NW or something like that).  It got a great review from a couple of places (IGN, for example), but no one seems to even have it listed.
13789  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: What are you buying this week? (1/7) on: January 07, 2008, 03:25:20 PM
I'm interested in both Harvey Birdman and Sonic Riders, but I have a feeling both will suck.

KUF:COD may get a go from me, but I have to see some reviews.
13790  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Should I return Stuntman Ignition? What would you do? on: January 07, 2008, 05:03:50 AM

Quote from: The_Man on January 07, 2008, 02:44:14 AM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on January 06, 2008, 08:47:00 PM

Quote from: The_Man on January 06, 2008, 03:13:50 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on January 05, 2008, 06:50:39 PM



Sorry for the derail, but on an unrelated topic, is anyone else still pissed off that stores no longer allow you to return opened games?  It really kills off the smaller name titles because consumers just aren't willing to take a chance on getting stuck with something they don't like.  What the hell ever happened to customer service in this country!?

-Autistic Angel

You do realize that if a store like Gamestop took back every opened game because someone didn't like it, they would have to defect every one of them because they can't be resold as new.  Most stores will take back unopened games with a receipt because they can easily resell them.  This is not an option on a game that you have played and decided you didn't like.  That's why Gamestop encourages you to buy used games...if you don't like it, you have 7 days to return it, whatever the reason.

I even noticed that Wal Mart will no longer take back sealed games without a receipt.  Bravo for them for finally catching on that people go out and find deals and then try and make a profit by returning it to Wal Mart.

With demos, used games, and the wealth of information floating around the net, there is just no excuse for someone returning an open game anymore unless it is defective.

And yet EB Games used to have a liberal return policy that allowed for just that.  Also, both EB and Gamestop use a "gutting" system, so I don't think they'd have much problem reselling a returned game (in fact, I know they used to do it frequently).

Problem is, most opened games that are returned are NOT in resellable condition...that's the problem.  Sure, if the disc was spotless, they could always return it to stock, but that rarely happens.  The reason their liberal return policy no longer exists is that people abused the hell out of it.  I had a friend that rarely bought a game that he didn't return, even if he liked it.  When day 12 or 13 would come, he would start asking what was good because he just wanted something new to play.  I spent more money than I care to say at EB back in those days and I only returned one game out of everything I bought.

Again, they have a very generous policy when it comes to returning used games so if you want to "rent" them, that's the route to go. 

Actually, discs not in resellable condition were put back on the shelves quite frequently.  That also contributed to the abandonment of the policy.  However, more than that or those who abused it, the reason the policy doesn't exist is there's not enough money in it for the company.  The push for pre-owned meant a shift away from liberal returns to trade-ins.
13791  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Should I return Stuntman Ignition? What would you do? on: January 06, 2008, 08:47:00 PM

Quote from: The_Man on January 06, 2008, 03:13:50 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on January 05, 2008, 06:50:39 PM



Sorry for the derail, but on an unrelated topic, is anyone else still pissed off that stores no longer allow you to return opened games?  It really kills off the smaller name titles because consumers just aren't willing to take a chance on getting stuck with something they don't like.  What the hell ever happened to customer service in this country!?

-Autistic Angel

You do realize that if a store like Gamestop took back every opened game because someone didn't like it, they would have to defect every one of them because they can't be resold as new.  Most stores will take back unopened games with a receipt because they can easily resell them.  This is not an option on a game that you have played and decided you didn't like.  That's why Gamestop encourages you to buy used games...if you don't like it, you have 7 days to return it, whatever the reason.

I even noticed that Wal Mart will no longer take back sealed games without a receipt.  Bravo for them for finally catching on that people go out and find deals and then try and make a profit by returning it to Wal Mart.

With demos, used games, and the wealth of information floating around the net, there is just no excuse for someone returning an open game anymore unless it is defective.

And yet EB Games used to have a liberal return policy that allowed for just that.  Also, both EB and Gamestop use a "gutting" system, so I don't think they'd have much problem reselling a returned game (in fact, I know they used to do it frequently).
13792  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Should I return Stuntman Ignition? What would you do? on: January 05, 2008, 09:48:53 PM

Quote from: stimpy on January 05, 2008, 08:51:49 PM

I'm pretty sure that without a reciept, you wont get the current price, if they let you return it at all.
These days, stores are more and more reluctant to allow returns without a reciept, for reasons such as this.
They may try and work with you, but I dont think it will be as easy as you think.
If you say you bought it, they will offer to look up the transaction on their computers.
And if they do decide to let you return it, chances are they will only credit it at the lowest price for the previous 30 days.

That usually only applies to opened merchandise.  Unopened, they can just put it back on the shelf.  Also, after Christmas nearly all stores are incredibly liberal with return policies.

As for the topic, I'm glad you kept it.  You should play the game, it's a lot of fun, and there was no way to return it, make $20 and then buy it again and stay ahead.
13793  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Play the NFL Tour demo if you enjoy crap on: January 05, 2008, 06:37:05 PM

Quote from: motodd on January 05, 2008, 05:17:25 PM

Quote from: TheMissingLink on January 04, 2008, 06:45:19 PM

"DIDJA ever notice how repetitive video game announcers are?  Why is that?  DIDJA ever notice how repetitive video game announcers are?  Why is that?"

"I've run out of new things to say, so I'm going to start repeating myself.  You're going to sit there and take it."

I'm with Grue, I find it to be funny as well. Too bad the game seems to be a let down.

Funny the first time.  DVD-snappingly awful the 47th.
13794  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Should I return Stuntman Ignition? What would you do? on: January 05, 2008, 06:35:02 PM
I see JCC's point and might lean that way myself, but there would be a conundrum about it.  It does feel a little sneaky.

9's right, though, it is a fantastic game that was horribly underrated and undersold.  Please, everyone buy it.
13795  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Play the NFL Tour demo if you enjoy crap on: January 05, 2008, 01:05:17 AM
I watched the two videos on XBLM, and I was pretty shocked by how weak the graphics looked.  Even the producers couldn't seem to muster any excitement for the game.
13796  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Official response for LIVE on: January 04, 2008, 03:46:59 PM
The problem seems to have stemmed from an attack, though, according to a report I read last night.  Not an influx of gamers or a problem with their hardware.

In my opinion, that kind of takes the responsibility off of MS's shoulders a bit (not completely, but moreso).  Offering anything for something that was, essentially, an act of God (or really an act of tiny devils) is a classy move.  Regardless of what the free thing offered is.

EDIT:  Of course, Endgadget just debunked that, so never mind.  http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/04/debunk-xbox-live-was-down-but-not-due-to-ddos-attack/
13797  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: Anyone try the Kane and Lynch Demo on Live on: January 04, 2008, 03:38:17 PM
I'd been saying all along that I thought this game was suffering more from timing than anything else (aren't I brilliant?  Where are my kudos?).  It was just a time when too many brilliant games were coming out.  An average shooter wasn't going to cut it.

I bought the game myself, played the first level, then never went back to it because of the plethora of great games calling to me.  I wish I'd waited.  I know I'll be looking for something new in Feb or Mar when this'll come down in price.  Oh, well.  It won't be new, but I'll give it a shot around then.
13798  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [Wii] Nyko Perfect Shot Impressions on: January 03, 2008, 09:31:18 PM

Quote from: kronovan on January 03, 2008, 05:13:07 PM

smile Voice acting is also very bad in a good way.

So far my favorite is when the commander says, "Bravo, Charlie..." clearly congratulating a guy named Charlie on a job well done and then a sentence later, tells you to protect Bravo and Charlie.  What, the guy couldn't read ahead?
13799  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: DS Lite WiFi connection help on: January 02, 2008, 09:09:30 PM

Quote from: The Grue on January 02, 2008, 06:51:26 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 02, 2008, 06:10:32 PM


Ah I see.  DS doesn't supprt WPA?  That's limp.

Yeah, it is, especially since the Wii does.  Would be nice if they could add it via some kind of firmware update.

I keep hoping that'll happen.
13800  Gaming / Console / PC Gaming / Re: [Wii] Nyko Perfect Shot Impressions on: January 02, 2008, 09:08:47 PM

Quote from: Destructor on January 02, 2008, 07:30:14 PM

I own Ghost Squad, and there's definitely a Nunchuck mode. Make sure you hit the options screen and look (it's kinda buried). Keep in mind that it affects EVERY controller plugged in (there's no way to use different settings for each player), so if you have 4 players, you'll need 4 Nunchucks.

Sheesh, I used to be good looking for options.

Using the A button in Ghost Squad is pretty easy, so I may not bother with that option anyway.

I hope this gun becomes popular so that everyone will put these options in.
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