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Author Topic: Zimmerman / Martin Thread?  (Read 5261 times)
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Eco-Logic
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« on: July 11, 2013, 06:40:56 PM »

I searched and didn't find one.  There surely is one here somewhere, right?

Direct me to it so I can vent. 

Child abuse?  Are you shitting me?
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Mystic95Z
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2013, 06:52:54 PM »

Prosecution is grasping... They know they got steamrolled....
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2013, 06:59:50 PM »

Quote from: Mystic95Z on July 11, 2013, 06:52:54 PM

Prosecution is grasping... They know they got steamrolled....

They did get steamrolled, more so than I've ever witnessed.

The sad thing is this shouldn't have been the public spectacle it became.  It was turned into a race thing when it shouldn't have been.

If riots occur I think it's due in large part to the media's coverage of this tragic case.
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2013, 07:06:20 PM »

http://gamingtrend.com/forums/political-religious-nonsense/black-panthers-offer-$10-000-bounty-on-george-zimmerman/msg853586/#msg853586

Only one I found. probably not worth resurrecting.

And I haven't followed it closely. How you guys leaning on how it will go.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 07:08:29 PM by ATB » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2013, 07:10:56 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on July 11, 2013, 06:59:50 PM

Quote from: Mystic95Z on July 11, 2013, 06:52:54 PM

Prosecution is grasping... They know they got steamrolled....

They did get steamrolled, more so than I've ever witnessed.

The sad thing is this shouldn't have been the public spectacle it became.  It was turned into a race thing when it shouldn't have been.

If riots occur I think it's due in large part to the media's coverage of this tragic case.

Anecdotal and all...but my mother lives in Sanford near the lakefront and it is a zoo down there right now.  She was walking along the lakefront a few nights ago and overheard multiple conversations from folks claiming they would join in with rioting if Zimmerman isn't found guilty of murder.
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 07:16:12 PM »

I cannot fathom a world in which Zimmerman is found guilty of murder based upon the case presented by the inept prosecution.
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2013, 07:19:53 PM »

This is why Obama has put forth an executive order requiring everyone to wear Google Glass.
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hepcat
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2013, 07:38:55 PM »

The reason you didn't find a thread on this issue in Off Topic is because it's borderline R&P now...and will most certainly cross the line sooner rather than later anyway.

With that in mind...

The Stand Your Ground law is inherently flawed and too ambiguous to exist within the legal system.  I have no issue with self defense, but the initial use of that law in the early days of the case drove that point home for me.

As for Zimmerman, a trial was necessary in light of the fact that a 17 year old kid was shot and killed by someone who was explicitly told NOT to confront someone who was NOT breaking any laws by a representative of the police.  If no trial had taken place, it would weaken any future attempts to challenge self defense cases with similar circumstances.  

Whether or not he should be found guilty of anything is up to the jury that has been exposed to far more facts surrounding the case than any of us.

I would also add that groups on both sides of the fence regarding the case have acted despicably on more than one occasion.
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2013, 07:48:33 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on July 11, 2013, 07:38:55 PM

The reason you didn't find a thread on this issue in Off Topic is because it's borderline R&P now...and will most certainly cross the line sooner rather than later anyway.

With that in mind...

The Stand Your Ground law is inherently flawed and too ambiguous to exist within the legal system.  I have no issue with self defense, but the initial use of that law in the early days of the case drove that point home for me.

As for Zimmerman, a trial was necessary in light of the fact that a 17 year old kid was shot and killed by someone who was explicitly told NOT to confront someone who was NOT breaking any laws by a representative of the police.  If no trial had taken place, it would weaken any future attempts to challenge self defense cases with similar circumstances. 

Whether or not he should be found guilty of anything is up to the jury that has been exposed to far more facts surrounding the case than any of us.

I would also add that groups on both sides of the fence regarding the case have acted despicably on more than one occasion.

I agree completely.

The media slant however was not required and did nothing but increase racial tensions which shouldn't have even been an issue.
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2013, 08:10:38 PM »

The media wants people hanging off of every word and development.  They're as much sensationalist jackals as they were in the day of William Randolph Hearst. 
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2013, 08:34:00 PM »

Indeed.  It's a shame, because as edgy as we are as a country right now, I wouldn't be surprised at all if riots do occur.

Who said this and why?

"But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened."

Was that necessary?
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2013, 08:34:40 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on July 11, 2013, 08:10:38 PM

The media wants people hanging off of every word and development.  They're as much sensationalist jackals as they were in the day of William Randolph Hearst.  

Thankfully they haven't engineered a war with Spain this time though.

Quote from: Eco-Logic on July 11, 2013, 08:34:00 PM


"But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened."

Was that necessary?

...and there he goes.  You're nothing if not ridiculously predictable.

To humor you and answer your (likely) rhetorical question:

To those without an agenda or just non-racist:  I'm African American

To those with an agenda or just racist:  I only care because he's African American.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 08:44:59 PM by hepcat » Logged

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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2013, 08:39:10 PM »

Predictable?  Good, sure, who gives a shit?


Why did the POTUS say such an ASININE thing?  Especially regarding a trial that hadn't been decided?
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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2013, 08:41:44 PM »

I went back and added the answer. 

...you're not going to like it.  But the truth is difficult to hear at times. 
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 08:47:54 PM »

Don't like it only because its shit and a weak ass answer.  The fucking president of our country should not  have said anything about this case and the fact that you claim otherwise simply reinforces my decision to ignore every fucking ignorant thing you say.
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« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2013, 08:50:06 PM »

...I knew you wouldn't like the truth.   icon_cry
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« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2013, 08:51:23 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on July 11, 2013, 08:34:40 PM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on July 11, 2013, 08:10:38 PM

The media wants people hanging off of every word and development.  They're as much sensationalist jackals as they were in the day of William Randolph Hearst. 

Thankfully they haven't engineered a war with Spain this time though.

yeah, no war with Spain.  LOOK AT WHAT ZIMMERMAN IS DOING!!!! paranoid
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2013, 09:05:10 PM »

Nothing but a waste of taxpayer dollars for this trial, no charges were filed until there was a public outcry (mainly by african americans) as the police thought IIRC that this fit the stand your ground law... If they dont like like laws they should petition their state reps to change it.
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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2013, 09:12:23 PM »

Quote from: Mystic95Z on July 11, 2013, 09:05:10 PM

Nothing but a waste of taxpayer dollars for this trial, no charges were filed until there was a public outcry (mainly by african americans) as the police thought IIRC that this fit the stand your ground law... If they dont like like laws they should petition their state reps to change it.

Exactly.
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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2013, 09:23:38 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on July 11, 2013, 08:34:40 PM

To those without an agenda or just non-racist:  I'm African American

To those with an agenda or just racist:  I only care because he's African American.

His history of commenting on things involving race tends to lean towards the latter even without the broad brush of a racist charge that you make.

Remember, he sided with that irate professor guy instead of the cops...He would not have commented on either case if it was all whites or all blacks.  So, does that mean he's a racist?  That he's sided with the black person involved both times?  That he even commented on it solely because it involved a black person v. another race?
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« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2013, 10:00:12 PM »

Quote from: ATB on July 11, 2013, 09:23:38 PM

That he even commented on it solely because it involved a black person v. another race?

First, he didn't just bring it up out the blue, in spite of what you'd like to make people think.  He was asked that question during a nationally televised press conference on other issues...and the person who asked the question was the one that brought up race.

Quote
"Recently, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr. was arrested at his home in Cambridge. What does that incident say to you? And what does it say about race relations in America?"

The actual answer he gave when he was asked the question during a news conference doesn't really come across the way you want others to believe it did.

Quote
"I don't know, not having been there and not seeing all the facts, what role race played," Obama said Wednesday night while taking questions after a White House news conference.

 But I think it's fair to say, No. 1, any of us would be pretty angry; No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, No. 3 ... that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately."

Which part makes him racially biased?  Saying he didn't know if race even played a role?  Or bringing up our country's well document history of racial profiling? George Bush thought it was enough of an issue to mention.  Why can't Obama also voice that fact without accusations of racial bias?  

Quote
That he's sided with the black person involved both times?  

How did he "side" with anyone in the Martin/Zimmerman case?

Quote
"But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon. And I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and that we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened."

Where's the part where he tells all black people that he's going to see Zimmerman hang?  Is it when he says, "we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened."?  Or are you focusing on the fact that Obama finally admits he's not white?  He was talking to parents who were the same race as he about the loss of their son.  At the time, there was quite a bit of doubt about what actually went on...but Obama just promised to get the truth.  He didn't promise revenge, in spite of what some folks like to read in between the lines.

Addendum:  I'm not calling anyone here racist.  Do a quick search of Obama and Zimmerman though and you'll find ample proof as to why I put racism down as one of the reasons.  I believe Eco is in the "with an agenda" group.  As are you.   icon_wink
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« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2013, 10:35:56 PM »

aaaannnnddddd now we should be moved to R&P.   icon_wink
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« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2013, 11:04:22 PM »

Quote from: Mystic95Z on July 11, 2013, 09:05:10 PM

as the police thought IIRC that this fit the stand your ground law...

Should the police be making that decision?

Ale
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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2013, 11:15:02 PM »

Quote from: Alefroth on July 11, 2013, 11:04:22 PM

Quote from: Mystic95Z on July 11, 2013, 09:05:10 PM

as the police thought IIRC that this fit the stand your ground law...

Should the police be making that decision?

Ale

They initally wanted to bring charges againt Zimmerman, by the way.

Given the circumstances (especially the conflicting stories from the law and the "witnesses" in the early days of the incident) surrounding the shooting, I don't see why it's such a stretch to understand why it went to trial.
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« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2013, 06:46:54 PM »

I can tell you that we're on full alert right now, and a local community activist is being watched closely. He said, "Go to this place and riot."  Already dealing wiht one of our most bloody years and I hope the verdict doesn't put more fuel in the fire.
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« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2013, 01:35:00 AM »

I find that kind of person despicable.
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« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2013, 01:42:15 AM »

Quote from: Sparhawk on July 12, 2013, 06:46:54 PM

I can tell you that we're on full alert right now, and a local community activist is being watched closely. He said, "Go to this place and riot."  


Does this local community activist have a name?  I'm having trouble finding any articles about this, and my Google searches for "Police Inexplicably Refuse to Enforce Incitement to Riot Laws Against Local Community Activist" is coming up blank.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2013, 02:29:56 AM »

I assumed sparhawk was relating a firsthand account as a resident, but I also see nothing about any local activist calling for riots.  The police and other officials in the area seem to be confident there won't be any trouble.
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« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2013, 03:40:46 AM »

Not Guilty.

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« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2013, 04:34:44 AM »

im disappointed by  verdict but I'm  big believer in karma so hopefully he'll get his, sooner rather than later.
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« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2013, 04:45:11 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on July 14, 2013, 04:34:44 AM

im disappointed by  verdict but I'm  big believer in karma so hopefully he'll get his, sooner rather than later.

I guess because you're Canadian I'll have to let that comment slide, but our justice system shouldn't result into vigilante justice if one doesn't agree with the outcome.
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« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2013, 04:47:33 AM »

Quote from: naednek on July 14, 2013, 04:45:11 AM

Quote from: Canuck on July 14, 2013, 04:34:44 AM

im disappointed by  verdict but I'm  big believer in karma so hopefully he'll get his, sooner rather than later.

I guess because you're Canadian I'll have to let that comment slide, but our justice system shouldn't result into vigilante justice if one doesn't agree with the outcome.

The bigger problem is that our justice system shouldn't be a media circus show.
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« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2013, 05:36:24 AM »

Quote from: naednek on July 14, 2013, 04:45:11 AM

Quote from: Canuck on July 14, 2013, 04:34:44 AM

im disappointed by  verdict but I'm  big believer in karma so hopefully he'll get his, sooner rather than later.

I guess because you're Canadian I'll have to let that comment slide, but our justice system shouldn't result into vigilante justice if one doesn't agree with the outcome.
Im not saying it needs to be vigilante justice. It could be like OJ where he gets 30 years for B&E.
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« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2013, 05:44:44 AM »

"Stand your ground laws" are repulsive, indefensible and have no place in our society.

George Zimmerman had no business going anywhere near Trayvon Martin that night. If he'd stayed in his car like he should have, or just been at home like a regular person instead of driving around looking for trouble, Martin would still be alive.

But there was little clear physical evidence, and no witnesses other than the accused and the deceased. This would have been a hard case to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt," and the prosecution wasn't particularly deft. I believe that the jury reached this decision fairly and honestly.

I hope that no harm comes to George Zimmerman. He did a terrible thing, but the answer to his horrific vigilante action is not to direct vigilante actions against him. The proper response is to repeal the laws that made him think it was proper to go chasing through the night after an innocent kid while carrying a firearm.

I hope that Trayvon Martin's family takes some solace in knowing that millions of us in this country recognize that Trayvon was an innocent young man, that his death was unjust, and that it is a regrettable thing that the situation of his death was one which made it so hard to reach the standard of proof required by law to convict his killer of a crime.
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« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2013, 12:01:55 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on July 14, 2013, 05:44:44 AM

"Stand your ground laws" are repulsive, indefensible and have no place in our society.



Bullshit.

*shudder*

I agree he should have stayed in the car and this was a tragic case.
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« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2013, 12:34:22 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on July 11, 2013, 07:48:33 PM

Quote from: hepcat on July 11, 2013, 07:38:55 PM

The reason you didn't find a thread on this issue in Off Topic is because it's borderline R&P now...and will most certainly cross the line sooner rather than later anyway.

With that in mind...

The Stand Your Ground law is inherently flawed and too ambiguous to exist within the legal system.  I have no issue with self defense, but the initial use of that law in the early days of the case drove that point home for me.


I agree completely.

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« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2013, 02:29:37 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on July 14, 2013, 05:44:44 AM

"Stand your ground laws" are repulsive, indefensible and have no place in our society.

George Zimmerman had no business going anywhere near Trayvon Martin that night. If he'd stayed in his car like he should have, or just been at home like a regular person instead of driving around looking for trouble, Martin would still be alive.

But there was little clear physical evidence, and no witnesses other than the accused and the deceased. This would have been a hard case to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt," and the prosecution wasn't particularly deft. I believe that the jury reached this decision fairly and honestly.

I hope that no harm comes to George Zimmerman. He did a terrible thing, but the answer to his horrific vigilante action is not to direct vigilante actions against him. The proper response is to repeal the laws that made him think it was proper to go chasing through the night after an innocent kid while carrying a firearm.

I hope that Trayvon Martin's family takes some solace in knowing that millions of us in this country recognize that Trayvon was an innocent young man, that his death was unjust, and that it is a regrettable thing that the situation of his death was one which made it so hard to reach the standard of proof required by law to convict his killer of a crime.

Well said Fireball.  I agree 100% with this.
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« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2013, 05:34:23 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on July 14, 2013, 12:34:22 PM

Quote from: Eco-Logic on July 11, 2013, 07:48:33 PM

Quote from: hepcat on July 11, 2013, 07:38:55 PM

The reason you didn't find a thread on this issue in Off Topic is because it's borderline R&P now...and will most certainly cross the line sooner rather than later anyway.

With that in mind...

The Stand Your Ground law is inherently flawed and too ambiguous to exist within the legal system.  I have no issue with self defense, but the initial use of that law in the early days of the case drove that point home for me.


I agree completely.


Oh, but you see, that was before *I* said it.
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« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2013, 12:09:29 AM »

Quote
That's the way to honor Trayvon Martin.
-Obama

Why are we honoring Trayvon Martin?

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« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2013, 12:17:06 AM »

Quote from: ATB on July 15, 2013, 12:09:29 AM

Quote
That's the way to honor Trayvon Martin.
-Obama

Why are we honoring Trayvon Martin?



Because we should honor the dead?

I think this whole thing is a media joke, but in the end the kid died because he went for a walk, he wasn't some thug that had it coming.
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