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Author Topic: When was the last time someone changed your mind on an P/RN topic?  (Read 2762 times)
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Moliere
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« on: June 24, 2008, 04:39:51 PM »

Inspired by this comment:

Quote from: Austin on June 24, 2008, 02:38:40 PM

Heck there are plenty of far right/left position types who refuse to concede or budge, despite evidence staring them in the face

I am curious when was the last time someone convinced you to change your mind on one of these philosophical topics. I'm not talking about switching from Coke to Pepsi (because that's too radical of a change). I'm thinking more along the political and religious issues that get discussed.

The last major change of view I made was when my now ex-wife moved me from pro-Death Penalty to anti-Death Penalty. Her argument was better than mine and I couldn't rationally continue to hold my view. That was 7 years ago. The same thing is starting to happen with Global Warming as the skeptics I respect like Ron Bailey and Michael Shermer jump on the climate change bandwagon.
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Doopri
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 05:00:18 PM »

i know for me its not even so much about someone changing my mind.  even if that doesnt happen, i ALWAYS learn something.  whether thats more raw information or anothers perspective which i may not have fully considered, doesnt really matter - its still a great way to exchange information

perspective im always eager to learn more about, however im generally pretty selective when it comes to which pieces of raw information ill digest (i have a pretty lengthy - hell its election season - vetting process i go through before i decide "okay this is worthwhile, intelligent, well researched data" - actually its probably not even a "decision" in that if it is in fact worthwhile, intelligent and well researched if i DONT digest it im falling into an autistic pattern of thought - mol your example of people accepting climate change is a good one - that information has cleared their particular vetting process)
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McBa1n
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 05:58:10 PM »

I'd say year 2 or 3 in the Bush presidency on about 100 topics. Also, a few years ago+ (I did take an almost 2 year break from posting), MSD and a handful of others showed me the light on gun control, a topic I really knew nothing about. It's happened quite a few times, actually.
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Ironrod
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 06:29:24 PM »

A few years ago the R&P forum at OO changed my mind about gay marriage. I had thought that it was political correctness run amok and an inherently silly idea. I was persuaded that it's a fundamental civil rights issue, quite apart from my opinion of its merits.

Roughly two years ago I reached a personal tipping point on global warming. I had maintained that taking ameliorative action was premature pending more solid evidence of human culpability. I was persuaded that the time for inaction has run out. That was not entirely due to forum discussions, though, more a preponderance of evidence thing. I don't remember what report put me over the line.

I avoid arguments about faith-based topics (like abortion), and I try not to engage with anyone whose mind absolutely cannot be changed. This keeps me out of most threads. I toss in my two cents if I think it might advance the discussion or that anyone will care.
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RobbieD
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 06:44:02 PM »

I don't think any single person has gotten me to change my opinion on a politically based topic. I tend to view things from all sides before making a decision on my view and could very well change my opinion later on due to new supporting evidence. Forum political and religious discussions tend to leave me shaking my head and fairly disgusted with humanity but for some reason can't stop reading them. I don't respond well to bricks thrown at me and for the most part these topics have a couple brick throwers who have yet to learn after several years that their way of debating is not interesting or smacks of egotism of the worst kind.
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coopasonic
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 06:50:59 PM »

I'm 100% observer in the R&P world and I've learned something from most everyone posting in here and in OO's R&P forum. I may not have learned what they intended me to learn from their post, but I learned something. slywink I think this forum exposes positions and views that simply hadn't occurred to me. Sometimes because they are ridiculous and other times because I simply didn't think of it from that perspective.
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 06:52:30 PM »

Well, I thought P/RN was PORN until I read the topic, so I guess my mind has been changed. slywink

Brendan's persuasive nature has stalled Canada's full-scale attack on the USA. :golf-clap:

In all seriousness, I enjoy finding out new things; different people bring different perspectives, and for another person to cling to that means there must be something compelling. There is also the challenge of cognative dissonance which I try to fight every day.
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msteelers
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 07:11:50 PM »

I can't remember anything making me do a complete 180 on a position I believed in. But people posting here and at OO have definitely helped shaped my opinion, and almost always make me think of things differently than I would have on my own.
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Mr. Fed
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 07:39:58 PM »

1.  I was cautiously supportive of the current war in Iraq.
2.  I rejected not only the idea that the administration lied about the grounds for war (which I still reject); I also rejected the idea that the grounds were presented deceptively or in a non-forthright manner (which I now believe).
3.  I am more convinced than I was previously of global warming.
4.  I am substantially more skeptical of "Exposed"-style claims that Intelligent Design advocates are oppressed.
5.  I am somewhat more convinced that there is a colorable basis arising from something other than animus for maintaining some Leviticus rules and not others.
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coopasonic
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 07:44:43 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Fed on June 24, 2008, 07:39:58 PM

5.  I am somewhat more convinced that there is a colorable basis arising from something other than animus for maintaining some Leviticus rules and not others.

I'm better educated after looking up every third word in certain people's posts.
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 07:48:06 PM »

Quote from: coopasonic on June 24, 2008, 07:44:43 PM

Quote from: Mr. Fed on June 24, 2008, 07:39:58 PM

5.  I am somewhat more convinced that there is a colorable basis arising from something other than animus for maintaining some Leviticus rules and not others.

I'm better educated after looking up every third word in certain people's posts.

Links, please. slywink
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Mr. Fed
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2008, 08:05:47 PM »

Quote from: coopasonic on June 24, 2008, 07:44:43 PM

Quote from: Mr. Fed on June 24, 2008, 07:39:58 PM

5.  I am somewhat more convinced that there is a colorable basis arising from something other than animus for maintaining some Leviticus rules and not others.

I'm better educated after looking up every third word in certain people's posts.

"Hate faggy, not shrimpy, even though book say hate both?  Maybe asshole, but maybe ok, after all."

 icon_wink
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Exodor
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2008, 08:32:38 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Fed on June 24, 2008, 08:05:47 PM

"Hate faggy, not shrimpy, even though book say hate both?  Maybe asshole, but maybe ok, after all."

 icon_wink

Could you dumb it down a tad? 




I've changed my position on gun control after prolonged exposure to msd and others.    I still support limited gun control but I'm nowhere near the "Ban them all!!11!" zealot I once was.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2008, 08:58:46 PM »

Ive learned a few things here and there from the discussions here and on OO, but my mind changed on anything?   Not that I can think of.
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msduncan
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2008, 12:55:15 AM »

I'll bite:

I changed my mind on 2 things in the OO forum that I can think of off the top of my head:

1.  I once accused liberals as being traitors and un-American.     Based on the (you guessed it -- FLOOD) of feedback I got, I completely changed my heart on this issue, not just my mind.   The responses weren't even as flaming as you'd expect....they called me to the carpet and made me realize that people on the opposite end of the spectrum as me (see:  Blackadar) are NOT any of those things.   They are Americans who want the same thing that I do:  a prosperous, secure, and free America.    It's the method or path to get there where we disagree.      Seeing someone as having good intentions but seeing a different path to get there makes you see them in a vastly different light than seeing someone that is anti-American or unpatriotic.

2.  Abu Graib and torture:    Initially I was of the "so what?  these guys are murderous terrorists in these prisons and they deserve what they get camp".   And the "especially if certain methods can save American lives" camp.      Then OO turned my opinion to think that if we are to remain the country that is the beacon of hope for the world, we cannot allow ourselves to stoop to the same moral level as our enemies, no matter how dirty they fight.     We have to maintain justice and liberty.     This is one reason why, shocking probably to some, I agreed with the decision last week by the SCOTUS to allow prisoners to challenge their detention in court.

So yes... some of us are capable of changing our minds.     I'll be the first to admit that it is rare -- but it does happen.

Edit to add:   Dangit Ironrod, you reminded me.     I followed the same course as you on gay marriage.    Fireball has a lot to do with my acceptance of the issue as a civil rights issue rather than political correctness.    Thank you Fireball.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2008, 01:53:55 AM »

We're all victims of our own experiences, but I tend to do a lot of research on positions before taking one.  Once I take a stance, I'm usually pretty intractable.  Open debate and more research caused me to reverse my opinion on the 2nd Amendment and a few other issues, but not many.  I've generally ended up on historically "correct" side of most issues, even if those stances are unpopular at the time.  I think it helps because I don't belong to any one religion, ethnic group or political party.  However, since I don't belong to any particular group, there can be a weird sort of logic to my stances.  I'd be the first to admit that putting together a civil libertarian, fiscal conservative and socially liberal platform isn't always easy since they don't quite line up correctly.

There have been times, however, that someone has brought up good points that make me reconsider a position since I'm a sucker for a well thought-out, logical argument.
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Geezer
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2008, 02:43:51 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on June 25, 2008, 12:55:15 AM

I'll bite:

I changed my mind on 2 things in the OO forum that I can think of off the top of my head:

1.  I once accused liberals as being traitors and un-American.     Based on the (you guessed it -- FLOOD) of feedback I got, I completely changed my heart on this issue, not just my mind.   The responses weren't even as flaming as you'd expect....they called me to the carpet and made me realize that people on the opposite end of the spectrum as me (see:  Blackadar) are NOT any of those things.   They are Americans who want the same thing that I do:  a prosperous, secure, and free America.    It's the method or path to get there where we disagree.      Seeing someone as having good intentions but seeing a different path to get there makes you see them in a vastly different light than seeing someone that is anti-American or unpatriotic.

2.  Abu Graib and torture:    Initially I was of the "so what?  these guys are murderous terrorists in these prisons and they deserve what they get camp".   And the "especially if certain methods can save American lives" camp.      Then OO turned my opinion to think that if we are to remain the country that is the beacon of hope for the world, we cannot allow ourselves to stoop to the same moral level as our enemies, no matter how dirty they fight.     We have to maintain justice and liberty.     This is one reason why, shocking probably to some, I agreed with the decision last week by the SCOTUS to allow prisoners to challenge their detention in court.

So yes... some of us are capable of changing our minds.     I'll be the first to admit that it is rare -- but it does happen.

Edit to add:   Dangit Ironrod, you reminded me.     I followed the same course as you on gay marriage.    Fireball has a lot to do with my acceptance of the issue as a civil rights issue rather than political correctness.    Thank you Fireball.

 thumbsup
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Geezer
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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2008, 02:45:33 AM »

Quote from: Blackadar on June 25, 2008, 01:53:55 AM

However, since I don't belong to any particular group, there can be a weird sort of logic to my stances.  I'd be the first to admit that putting together a civil libertarian, fiscal conservative and socially liberal platform isn't always easy since they don't quite line up correctly.

Heh.  Just to show how tough it can be, I'd describe myself in exactly the same way, yet we still disagree rather pointedly on some things smile

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YellowKing
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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2008, 02:54:00 AM »

I've slowly become much more moderate over the past 8 years, but I blame the Bush presidency as much as R&P. I agree with others here, however, in that I enjoy seeing viewpoints from the other side. The only thing that disappoints me at times is that in a predominantly liberal forum like this, conservative viewpoints often get a knee-jerk negative response.  
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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2008, 03:06:15 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on June 25, 2008, 02:54:00 AM

... I enjoy seeing viewpoints from the other side. The only thing that disappoints me at times is that in a predominantly liberal forum like this, conservative viewpoints often get a knee-jerk negative response. 
+1. 

I wouldn't bother visiting if I couldn't find a variety of opinions.   R&P would be dreadfully boring if it became an echo chamber.
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McBa1n
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2008, 07:29:03 AM »

Quote from: helot2000 on June 25, 2008, 03:06:15 AM

Quote from: YellowKing on June 25, 2008, 02:54:00 AM

... I enjoy seeing viewpoints from the other side. The only thing that disappoints me at times is that in a predominantly liberal forum like this, conservative viewpoints often get a knee-jerk negative response. 
+1. 

I wouldn't bother visiting if I couldn't find a variety of opinions.   R&P would be dreadfully boring if it became an echo chamber.


Amen to that. But also, I don't think it'd be fun chatting on boards frequented by people that were incapable of having an open mind to other ideals. Well, I like to hope that is what goes on, anyway.
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2008, 08:16:04 AM »

Quote from: Exodor on June 24, 2008, 08:32:38 PM

Quote from: Mr. Fed on June 24, 2008, 08:05:47 PM

"Hate faggy, not shrimpy, even though book say hate both?  Maybe asshole, but maybe ok, after all."

 icon_wink

Could you dumb it down a tad? 


Uh, thats a weird quote but I'm pretty sure the idea is that Leviticus, a book in the old testament, states a whole bunch of rules including what not to eat and who not to have sex with.  Of the many, some are still followed, some are not.  So basically, if one is a believer, it should be ok for gay people to have equal rights because they (the believer) eat shrimp.  I guess that's the cost to be paid by the faithful for delicious delicious shrimp.
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