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Author Topic: What happens if McCain somehow wins?  (Read 8985 times)
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Rowdy
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« on: October 30, 2008, 04:27:07 PM »

As a Canadian with a somewhat objective viewpoint, I'm very interested in the current state of American politics.  It appears that the US has split into two VERY disparate political views after 8 years of Bush policy.  Given the absolute frenzy that many are making over Obama (and even I think he's an inspiring politician and a much needed change), what would happen in the US if somehow McCain managed to eke out a shocking win, ala Bush over Gore?  Would it simply be a disappointment to the Dems, or would it end up being more?  From here it looks like McCain wouldn't ever have a chance - half the country would riot with a Republican victory at this point.  Is that accurate, or not?
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mikeg
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2008, 04:41:25 PM »

same thing if Obama wins.  1/2 the people happy, 1/2 sad and then 4 more years of congress f*cking up our country.
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2008, 04:41:46 PM »

I'm moving to Greenland.
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2008, 04:46:16 PM »

Short-term I think you'd see a lot of finger-pointing about voter fraud, racism, etc. to explain away the victory. I would not doubt if you saw some civil unrest immediately after the election.

Long-term, I think you'd see the Democrats taking a long hard look at their party trying to figure out how they lost touch with the American people so badly. This is by far the best candidate they've put up in years, and he's running after one of the most unpopular Presidents in history. If they can't win this one, then I think they'd have to ask themselves if they can *ever* win another Presidential election.

That said, I think it's an extremely unlikely scenario.
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Rowdy
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2008, 04:55:06 PM »

Quote from: mikeg on October 30, 2008, 04:41:25 PM

same thing if Obama wins.  1/2 the people happy, 1/2 sad and then 4 more years of congress f*cking up our country.

Ya, I don't see that.  I don't see the almost religious ferver on the right behind McCain.  I think if Obama wins, you might have some mutters but overall the country is ecstatic.  If Obama loses, though, I can see millions of furious Americans going crazy at the thought of 4 more years of similar policy.  I don't think there's the same emotional investment on both sides.

But thats the point of the question - maybe that's just the media impression I get.  Maybe the average citizen isn't as invested as the media makes it seem.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 05:02:24 PM by Rowdy » Logged
gellar
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2008, 05:16:38 PM »

Quote from: Rowdy on October 30, 2008, 04:55:06 PM

Quote from: mikeg on October 30, 2008, 04:41:25 PM

same thing if Obama wins.  1/2 the people happy, 1/2 sad and then 4 more years of congress f*cking up our country.

Ya, I don't see that.  I don't see the almost religious ferver on the right behind McCain.  I think if Obama wins, you might have some mutters but overall the country is ecstatic.  If Obama loses, though, I can see millions of furious Americans going crazy at the thought of 4 more years of similar policy.  I don't think there's the same emotional investment on both sides.

But thats the point of the question - maybe that's just the media impression I get.  Maybe the average citizen isn't as invested as the media makes it seem.

How does that explain a polling of no more than 58% Obama over McCain?

There are PLENTY of McCain nuts.  They scare the crap out of me more than the Obama nuts.  Both scare me pretty good though.

gellar
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pr0ner
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2008, 06:00:38 PM »

I'm more worried about the disaster that would be a filibuster-proof Senate and a House with 250 Democrats would be than I am about who's going to be president next.

I'm amazed that Congress pulls worse approval ratings than President Bush, yet the party in power STILL stands to gain seats.
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Pyperkub
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« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2008, 07:44:28 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on October 30, 2008, 06:00:38 PM

I'm more worried about the disaster that would be a filibuster-proof Senate and a House with 250 Democrats would be than I am about who's going to be president next.

Think of it in terms of still trying to find an equilibrium after 12 years of a conservative agenda that went off-track.  In two years there'll be another chance to shift that equilibrium.  Frankly, I expect that with the economy the way it is, it will serve as a bulwark against some of the more radical left wing agendas, particularly for Obama.

In other words, the market will adjust and find an appropriate balance - think of it as Adam Smith's invisible hand at work in a slightly different realm.
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2008, 07:45:41 PM »

Still waiting for Bush to postpone the elections and hold office for whenever the world is safe.
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2008, 08:25:37 PM »

Quote from: Pyperkub on October 30, 2008, 07:44:28 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on October 30, 2008, 06:00:38 PM

I'm more worried about the disaster that would be a filibuster-proof Senate and a House with 250 Democrats would be than I am about who's going to be president next.

Think of it in terms of still trying to find an equilibrium after 12 years of a conservative agenda that went off-track.  In two years there'll be another chance to shift that equilibrium.  Frankly, I expect that with the economy the way it is, it will serve as a bulwark against some of the more radical left wing agendas, particularly for Obama.

In other words, the market will adjust and find an appropriate balance - think of it as Adam Smith's invisible hand at work in a slightly different realm.

Conservative agenda that went off track?!?!?!    You are kidding right?    I dont see much conservative at all about how money has been spent these past 8 years.   Liberals should be proud of the way government has spent tax dollars and run up the deficit these past years.
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2008, 08:45:53 PM »

This election has captured the attention and the imagination of an unprecedented number of first-time voters: people who are relative newcomers to the political scene who are being primed to expected a landslide victory for Obama.

If McCain manages to pull off a victory -- which I believe is far more likely than most people suspect -- I think that the sense of shock and confusion in this country could swiftly give way to sentiments of bitter disenfranchisement and anger.  Even if McCain's win is completely on the up and up, the belief that Obama's "certain victory" was stolen away could yield a really nasty backlash.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2008, 08:55:33 PM »

if mccain wins i fully expect to see riots on tv which make the LA riots over rodney king look like a drunken college football town after a big win. 

oddly enough, i also wonder what kinds of stuff will get passed with dems controlling 2/3rds of government.  one of the reasons i am seriously considering voting republican for local seats and congress. 
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corruptrelic
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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2008, 09:19:23 PM »

Even though I'm voting for Obama, it's McCain who's going to pull this election off.

If by some chance Obama is able to pull off a victory, we can get this country back on track once again after the last 8 years of failure, but I'm already prepared for the worse.. and that's 4 more years of Bush.
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« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2008, 09:23:43 PM »

You're a glass-half-empty guy, aren't ya, corruptrelic? smile
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« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2008, 11:15:24 PM »

If McCain wins then we can all look forward to a lot more Tina Fey.

Tina Fey = Good.
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Jaddison
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2008, 11:48:06 PM »

Gee that's sort of humorous Brettcmd.  All the stalwart right pundits proclaimed for at least 7 years what a pillar of the right (=conservative in todays landscape).  Isn't the talking point that Bush HAD to spend like because of GWOT?

Both parties have done little to distinguish themselves in a positive way.  But you can't disown Bush now.  He and Sarah Palin (who seems more and more like an uneducated Dick Cheney the more her true history/performance comes out) are the symbols of what the Republican party has become.

I imagine many Republicans are rewriting history just as I have seen and heard many people rewriting Clinton
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brettmcd
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2008, 11:51:57 PM »

Quote from: Jaddison on October 30, 2008, 11:48:06 PM

Gee that's sort of humorous Brettcmd.  All the stalwart right pundits proclaimed for at least 7 years what a pillar of the right (=conservative in todays landscape).  Isn't the talking point that Bush HAD to spend like because of GWOT?

Both parties have done little to distinguish themselves in a positive way.  But you can't disown Bush now.  He and Sarah Palin (who seems more and more like an uneducated Dick Cheney the more her true history/performance comes out) are the symbols of what the Republican party has become.

I imagine many Republicans are rewriting history just as I have seen and heard many people rewriting Clinton

Gee you mistakenly assume I am a republican, and you would be wrong in that assumption, ive been a very conservative libertarian for many years, so I can say whatever I want about him and not have to rewrite or disown anything, as I never supported or voted for him, as he and the party he leads is NOT a conservative party these days.
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CeeKay
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« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2008, 12:32:56 AM »

what happens if McCain wins?  In 2 years we have a female president after his old age catches up with him  icon_wink
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2008, 03:41:32 AM »

Quote from: gellar on October 30, 2008, 05:16:38 PM

How does that explain a polling of no more than 58% Obama over McCain?

There are PLENTY of McCain nuts.  They scare the crap out of me more than the Obama nuts.  Both scare me pretty good though.
You have to admit that there are far more Obama "nuts" out there.  McCain hasn't exactly electrified, well, anyone.  But in many people's eyes he's the lesser of two evils. Regardless, he certainly hasn't drummed up the religious fervor that Obama has.
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2008, 03:47:45 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 31, 2008, 12:32:56 AM

what happens if McCain wins?  In 2 years we have a female president after his old age catches up with him  icon_wink

Which is the most terrifying thought of all.
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« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2008, 09:26:48 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on October 30, 2008, 08:25:37 PM

Liberals should be proud of the way government has spent tax dollars and run up the deficit these past years.

Seriously brett, why make a comment like this? You complain about other people trolling all the time, and yet this is nothing more than a troll attempt. I'm sure I'll get a stock-standard "I'm the victim" bullshit response, but I gotta point it out. Liberals aren't in favor of big spending. They're in favor of a lot of social programs that they tend to think can only be solved by big spending. I'm not saying it is good, or correct, but that's what it is. So saying they should be pleased about the deficit being run up is very disingenuous of you. "Large deficit" is not a pillar of Democratic Party policy.
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rickfc
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« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2008, 09:57:56 AM »

Quote from: Crux on October 31, 2008, 09:26:48 AM

Quote from: brettmcd on October 30, 2008, 08:25:37 PM

Liberals should be proud of the way government has spent tax dollars and run up the deficit these past years.

Seriously brett, why make a comment like this? You complain about other people trolling all the time, and yet this is nothing more than a troll attempt. I'm sure I'll get a stock-standard "I'm the victim" bullshit response, but I gotta point it out. Liberals aren't in favor of big spending. They're in favor of a lot of social programs that they tend to think can only be solved by big spending. I'm not saying it is good, or correct, but that's what it is. So saying they should be pleased about the deficit being run up is very disingenuous of you. "Large deficit" is not a pillar of Democratic Party policy.

Didn't we have a budget surplus with our last Democratic president? 
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brettmcd
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« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2008, 10:54:40 AM »

Quote from: rickfc on October 31, 2008, 09:57:56 AM

Quote from: Crux on October 31, 2008, 09:26:48 AM

Quote from: brettmcd on October 30, 2008, 08:25:37 PM

Liberals should be proud of the way government has spent tax dollars and run up the deficit these past years.

Seriously brett, why make a comment like this? You complain about other people trolling all the time, and yet this is nothing more than a troll attempt. I'm sure I'll get a stock-standard "I'm the victim" bullshit response, but I gotta point it out. Liberals aren't in favor of big spending. They're in favor of a lot of social programs that they tend to think can only be solved by big spending. I'm not saying it is good, or correct, but that's what it is. So saying they should be pleased about the deficit being run up is very disingenuous of you. "Large deficit" is not a pillar of Democratic Party policy.

Didn't we have a budget surplus with our last Democratic president? 

With a republican congress, which is why Obama winning with a democratic congress is such a scary proposition.   One party government doesnt work I think we have been shown that.
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« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2008, 11:34:03 AM »

The thought of Sarah Palin possibly being President is even scarier.  if have read even the slightest little bit about how she performed as mayor and governor plus her "End Times" views and her outright disdain of knowledge should scare the crap out of anyone.
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« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2008, 12:55:56 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on October 31, 2008, 09:57:56 AM


Didn't we have a budget surplus with our last Democratic president? 

Actually, to be perfectly fair, no, we didn't.  We got close - within $17B of a budget surplus, but we didn't really get into positive territory.  We only get into positive numbers when you add in a Social Security "surplus", which every President since Nixon has added into their budget numbers to make them look better than they really are.  For example, some of Bush's deficits have approached $800B when you take out the Social Security money, which is against future obligations.

Of course, the vast improvement of the budget under Clinton was very much due to two factors:

1.  Clinton.  Anyone who remembers the Government shutdown in 1995 remembers that it was over the budget.  Simply put, Clinton's willingness to go to the mat on some of those budget decisions was a large part of the improvement in the budget.  Republicans have tried some revisionist history on this to take credit for it, but they lost the budget battle.  Clinton won and 4 years later we saw the lowest deficit in 30 years.

2.  A booming economy.  Spending did rise under Clinton - by something like 26%.  But tax collections increased at a far greater rate due to the .COM boom and overall prosperous economic times.  By enacting policies that helped increase middle class wages by $6,000, he was able to generate far more tax revenue and proved that "trickle-down" doesn't work as a stand-alone economic policy.
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« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2008, 02:44:26 PM »

Quote
How does that explain a polling of no more than 58% Obama over McCain?

Just because someone is voting for McCain doesn't mean they're excited about voting for him. Polls done on level of enthusiasm for each candidate show McCain well behind Obama in their respective parties.

Quote
If McCain wins then we can all look forward to a lot more Tina Fey.

Tina Fey = Good.

Nope. She's already come out and said that if McCain wins, she will not be doing Palin as she is too busy with 30 Rock and some other projects.
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olaf
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« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2008, 03:48:48 PM »

If McCain wins I expect riots.  The media has been telling the world, non-stop, 24/7 'Obama is your next President'.  People believe it.
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« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2008, 04:02:27 PM »

Quote from: olaf on October 31, 2008, 03:48:48 PM

If McCain wins I expect riots.  The media has been telling the world, non-stop, 24/7 'Obama is your next President'.  People believe it.

And if people riot just because their candidate lost, well it shows alot about those people and their party, and none of it is good.
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« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2008, 04:32:01 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on October 31, 2008, 04:02:27 PM

Quote from: olaf on October 31, 2008, 03:48:48 PM

If McCain wins I expect riots.  The media has been telling the world, non-stop, 24/7 'Obama is your next President'.  People believe it.

And if people riot just because their candidate lost, well it shows alot about those people and their party, and none of it is good.


Looking at the Gore/Bush and then Kerry/Bush, both of those candidates were less-than-motivating.

You now have a charismatic candidate and if the same robbing occurs you can expect there to be backlash. It has nothing to do with showing "alot about those people"; anger is an emotion that is an indicator. Injustice triggers anger like nothing else, and as I see it, the right to bear arms is not only to protect you from outside invasion; it's also to ensure the democracy of your land can be protected from dictatorship and despotism.
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« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2008, 04:35:29 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on October 31, 2008, 04:02:27 PM

Quote from: olaf on October 31, 2008, 03:48:48 PM

If McCain wins I expect riots.  The media has been telling the world, non-stop, 24/7 'Obama is your next President'.  People believe it.

And if people riot just because their candidate lost, well it shows alot about those people and their party, and none of it is good.

these Hypothetical People would not be rioting because of their supposed partisan views.  Frustration at their economic situation and their future prospects is much more likely to be the cause.  I would not doubt maybe one or two out of four rioters would even be registered to vote, or be old enough to vote.  They would just riot because there's a chance to loot and likely get away with it.

For someone who likes to moan when someone else makes guesses at your partisanship, I am surprised that you would want to paint hypothetical others with a partisan brush.
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« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2008, 04:57:35 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on October 31, 2008, 02:44:26 PM

Quote
If McCain wins then we can all look forward to a lot more Tina Fey.

Tina Fey = Good.

Nope. She's already come out and said that if McCain wins, she will not be doing Palin as she is too busy with 30 Rock and some other projects.

Now that makes me a sad panda.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2008, 05:31:00 PM »

Quote from: Purge on October 31, 2008, 04:32:01 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on October 31, 2008, 04:02:27 PM

Quote from: olaf on October 31, 2008, 03:48:48 PM

If McCain wins I expect riots.  The media has been telling the world, non-stop, 24/7 'Obama is your next President'.  People believe it.

And if people riot just because their candidate lost, well it shows alot about those people and their party, and none of it is good.


Looking at the Gore/Bush and then Kerry/Bush, both of those candidates were less-than-motivating.

You now have a charismatic candidate and if the same robbing occurs you can expect there to be backlash. It has nothing to do with showing "alot about those people"; anger is an emotion that is an indicator. Injustice triggers anger like nothing else, and as I see it, the right to bear arms is not only to protect you from outside invasion; it's also to ensure the democracy of your land can be protected from dictatorship and despotism.

Thats the thing, you automatically assume that if Obama loses there was some robbery or theft of the election that made it possible.   What if for whatever reason more americans decide they dont want Obama as president?    Why is that a reason to riot?
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« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2008, 05:33:54 PM »

Quote from: Purge on October 31, 2008, 04:32:01 PM

You now have a charismatic candidate and if the same robbing occurs you can expect there to be backlash. It has nothing to do with showing "alot about those people"; anger is an emotion that is an indicator. Injustice triggers anger like nothing else, and as I see it, the right to bear arms is not only to protect you from outside invasion; it's also to ensure the democracy of your land can be protected from dictatorship and despotism.

So now it's official that Bush somehow rigged the election?  Not that more people voted for him? And is it so outside the realm of possibility that people might vote for McCain?  Polls are wrong all the time and they could be wrong this time too.

As for riots: there's no justification. We're not in a depression. Food is still plentiful (though expensive), so's gas. Unemployment is what, 6%? Maybe closing in on 7%?  Obama is not the savior of America and I don't think most people think he is.  He's viewed as a change agent...realistically or no (pretty much all politicians are the same).

The riots will occur if Obama is elected and then some backwoods militia/hate group assassinates him.  That's when the US will break apart at the seams.  
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« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2008, 05:45:21 PM »

More Americans wanted Gore as President but there was no rioting when he "lost".
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« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2008, 05:52:49 PM »

Quote from: Jaddison on October 31, 2008, 05:45:21 PM

More Americans wanted Gore as President but there was no rioting when he "lost".

There was definitely one "riot".
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« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2008, 06:08:02 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on October 31, 2008, 05:31:00 PM

That's the thing, you automatically assume that if Obama loses there was some robbery or theft of the election that made it possible.  What if for whatever reason more Americans decide they don't want Obama as president?    Why is that a reason to riot?

If McCain wins, even if by legitimate reasons, it will still be viewed as if fraud was involved by the same percentage of people who still believe Obama is Muslim.

It's the current perception of almost all news outlets, with some exceptions (Hi Fox News!) that Obama is pretty much a lock.  That trickles down into the masses that Obama has already won, and if that doesn't come true then things can/will get ugly.

Generalizing here, but most of the people voting for Obama will be people who want a change from the current administration and see McCain as an extentsion of the 'now'.  Some of those, if not most, have been negatively affected by Bush in some way, so McCain would only bring more hurt to those people and their families.  Those people also think that there are more people like them than people who would vote for McCain.

Now, if they've been hearing Obama will win, and things will get better.  If McCain wins, they will without question feel cheated, and angry, and they will not write letters.  They will not see it as "more Americans didn't want Obama." but rather "The government didn't want Obama to win."

Just my opinion.
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« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2008, 06:26:12 PM »

Quote from: Hiccup on October 31, 2008, 06:08:02 PM

Generalizing here, but most of the people voting for Obama will be people who want a change from the current administration and see McCain as an extentsion of the 'now'. 

I get that as that's how I feel. But I'm back leaning towards McCain because of abortion and other issues.  So there's probably more folks like me that want the 'Obama Change' but don't necessarily want everything he stands for to become a matter of policy...

I probably won't know who I'm voting for until I choose a name in the voting booth. 

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« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2008, 08:00:37 PM »

Erica Jong predicts a sequel to the Civil War.
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« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2008, 09:12:47 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on October 31, 2008, 08:00:37 PM

Erica Jong predicts a sequel to the Civil War.

Wow, talk about batshait crazy.   icon_eek
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« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2008, 12:42:18 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on October 31, 2008, 06:26:12 PM

Quote from: Hiccup on October 31, 2008, 06:08:02 PM

Generalizing here, but most of the people voting for Obama will be people who want a change from the current administration and see McCain as an extentsion of the 'now'. 

I get that as that's how I feel. But I'm back leaning towards McCain because of abortion and other issues.  So there's probably more folks like me that want the 'Obama Change' but don't necessarily want everything he stands for to become a matter of policy...

I probably won't know who I'm voting for until I choose a name in the voting booth. 



Of all the topics that there are to back a candidate for in this day and age, with war and the economy crumbling, it boggles the mind that the one item you list is abortion.  You are not a woman.  Let them choose on their own.
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