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Canuck
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« on: March 03, 2008, 12:50:05 AM »

Quote
Most Democratic strategists see Texas and Ohio as must-win states if Ms. Clinton is to continue her candidacy, a view also expressed by her husband, former President Bill Clinton.

She has lost 11 consecutive contests to Mr. Obama and lags in the delete count.

But in recent days, Clinton campaign officials have suggested that if Mr. Obama doesn't win all four Tuesday contests — which also include races in Rhode Island and Vermont — it would signal “buyers remorse” and be reason to continue the campaign to the next major primary, Pennsylvania on April 22.

So it's gone from 'we have to win big in Ohio and Texas' to 'if Obama doesn't win all four states then we win' ?
Talk about being optimistic-or just being totally clueless.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2008, 03:24:47 AM »

No matter hat happens Obama probably will not be able to acheive 2025 electoral votes so I have a feeling this could be interesting right into the convention.
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2008, 04:11:54 AM »

the super delegates will probably step in before that, most likely backing whoever is ahead in the delegate race just to get the focus down to one candidate.
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2008, 12:13:31 PM »

Yea, if Hillary loses both Texas and Ohio, I think you'll see a huge push among Dems for her to drop out.  I, for one, won't vote for her if she loses both states and then doesn't vacate the race.  The Dems should be able to hammer the Republicans in the fall and McCain has made some inroads while our candidates have been duking it out.  It's time to wrap this up and focus on getting the Repubs out of the White House.  We've had 8 years of failed policies that has put this country in a horrible position - overstretched, exhausted military, a foreign policy that's failed on every level, a weak middle class, a weak economy and a huge deficit.  It's time to return some sense to Penn. Ave and start to repair the damage that's been done.
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2008, 01:36:45 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on March 03, 2008, 12:13:31 PM

Yea, if Hillary loses both Texas and Ohio, I think you'll see a huge push among Dems for her to drop out.  I, for one, won't vote for her if she loses both states and then doesn't vacate the race.  The Dems should be able to hammer the Republicans in the fall and McCain has made some inroads while our candidates have been duking it out.  It's time to wrap this up and focus on getting the Repubs out of the White House.  We've had 8 years of failed policies that has put this country in a horrible position - overstretched, exhausted military, a foreign policy that's failed on every level, a weak middle class, a weak economy and a huge deficit.  It's time to return some sense to Penn. Ave and start to repair the damage that's been done.

Nice speech. 

You think Bill and Hillary will buy it?   icon_biggrin
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2008, 02:10:58 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on March 03, 2008, 01:36:45 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on March 03, 2008, 12:13:31 PM

Yea, if Hillary loses both Texas and Ohio, I think you'll see a huge push among Dems for her to drop out.  I, for one, won't vote for her if she loses both states and then doesn't vacate the race.  The Dems should be able to hammer the Republicans in the fall and McCain has made some inroads while our candidates have been duking it out.  It's time to wrap this up and focus on getting the Repubs out of the White House.  We've had 8 years of failed policies that has put this country in a horrible position - overstretched, exhausted military, a foreign policy that's failed on every level, a weak middle class, a weak economy and a huge deficit.  It's time to return some sense to Penn. Ave and start to repair the damage that's been done.

Nice speech. 

You think Bill and Hillary will buy it?   icon_biggrin

Reluctantly, but yes.
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2008, 04:06:01 PM »

Actually, I think the extended primary benefits the Democrats, no matter who wins.  Since McCain can't really spend much more money unless he wants to spend 5 years in prison, that means the Repukes are going to start opening a bunch of "concerned citizen" organizations to push the fear and smear 24/7.  It's going to be non-stop attack ads and Swift Boatings.

So a shortened general election doesn't give them enough time to get their astroturf to take hold, and it also means voters will still be rolling with the primary momentum.

Looking at the news, having the Republican primary wrapped up doesn't seem to be benefitting them any.  Aside from McCain talking about how all Democrats are traitors, blah blah blah, there's really not much McCain can do aside from worrying if his sweater makes him look gay.
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2008, 11:08:09 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 03, 2008, 04:06:01 PM

Looking at the news, having the Republican primary wrapped up doesn't seem to be benefitting them any.  Aside from McCain talking about how all Democrats are traitors, blah blah blah, there's really not much McCain can do aside from worrying if his sweater makes him look gay.

Unless i've been missing something very large - which i'm not - McCain has never implied that either Obama or Hillary are "traitors." But then again that would require you add a little truth to your universe of everything about Republicans in the last sixty years is bad regardless of reality.
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2008, 12:02:14 AM »

I really hate how, although Hillary is only 102 delegates behind, people just assume she's losing. That's pretty much neck and neck in my book, and unless Obama goes up by a few hundred tomorrow, which won't happen, it's still going to be damn close.
These primaries are just so stupidly covered by the media.
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2008, 12:39:51 AM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on March 04, 2008, 12:02:14 AM

I really hate how, although Hillary is only 102 delegates behind, people just assume she's losing. That's pretty much neck and neck in my book, and unless Obama goes up by a few hundred tomorrow, which won't happen, it's still going to be damn close.
These primaries are just so stupidly covered by the media.

The problem is even if she wins Ohio, Texas, and Rhode Island by 52-48%, and loses Vermont 60-40% (Obama is 20 points ahead in Vermont,) she could gain a grand total of 16 delegates.  She is going to lose big in Mississippi (Obama is up by 20 points there too,) thereby losing most of the 16 delegate gain.  She would then need a huge margin in PA.  Which is not going to happen.  The numbers do not look good for her at all. 

Unless......... Michigan and Florida come back into play and she convinces some Super Delegates.........

Her only real chance is a messy convention.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 12:42:19 AM by denoginizer » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2008, 01:28:49 PM »

Quote from: CSL on March 03, 2008, 11:08:09 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 03, 2008, 04:06:01 PM

Looking at the news, having the Republican primary wrapped up doesn't seem to be benefitting them any.  Aside from McCain talking about how all Democrats are traitors, blah blah blah, there's really not much McCain can do aside from worrying if his sweater makes him look gay.

Unless i've been missing something very large - which i'm not - McCain has never implied that either Obama or Hillary are "traitors." But then again that would require you add a little truth to your universe of everything about Republicans in the last sixty years is bad regardless of reality.

Actually, it would require you becoming a better informed person... but we both know that will never happen.
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2008, 01:39:55 PM »

What was that about assassinating characters? You two should go fight it out with pistols in some unnamed hotel in Morocco. It would make for an excellent youtube video.

I find it hilarious that unbreakable undermines his position by going tinfoil hat rather than keeping an even keel, and CSL is a staunch US republican supporter from Brandon, Manitoba (Canada). That's not to say that you both don't have valid points, but a communicating non-defensively course would help these threads in the biggest way possible.

I giggle sometimes. This is one of those times. biggrin

Now on with the show, this is it- (cue the Bugs & Tweety closing shot)

 Bring your own!
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2008, 02:05:45 PM »

Wow.  Obama has a ton of people on the ground in Cleveland today.  I've never seen this many people working a Novemebr election for any candidate, let alone a primary.  I am going to predict an Obama win in Ohio that I hope will put Hillary out of commision.  Although somehow I doubt she will go away quietly.
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2008, 03:18:32 PM »

If Obama sweeps today I'll be surprised if we don't see superdelegates jumping ship from Hillary and the rest lining up behind him.  I don't think the Dems want to drag this out and look indecisive as to who their backing.
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2008, 03:26:19 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on March 04, 2008, 12:02:14 AM

I really hate how, although Hillary is only 102 delegates behind, people just assume she's losing. That's pretty much neck and neck in my book, and unless Obama goes up by a few hundred tomorrow, which won't happen, it's still going to be damn close.
These primaries are just so stupidly covered by the media.

Actually, she's 157 delegates behind according to MSNBC and 153 delegates behind according to CNN, so he has a pretty fair margin.  You can't count the supers, their votes aren't in the bag and they'll likely vote the way the Dem leadership wants them to.  It's all about momentum...Obama has won 11 in a row.  Wins today not only give him a larger delegate lead, but also would give him something like 15 States in a row.  And with 24 States already won by the Obama camp, if you add in 4 more today you can justifiably say that he's won more than half the country.  Furthermore, the Democratic leadership *knows* it must end this quickly.  Not only do they need to prep for the Convention, but the specter of the FL and MI debacle looms large.  They need to make FL and MI irrelevant before that turns into a quagmire.

So if Obama wins today, you'll see a lot of pressure put on Hillary to bow out from the Dem establishment.  You'll probably see a number of superdelegates jump to the Obama ship - and loudly jump - if she doesn't go quickly.  Then they can start gathering their war chest for the Fall elections, rather than spending it now.
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2008, 03:37:19 PM »

Quote from: Purge on March 04, 2008, 01:39:55 PM

What was that about assassinating characters? You two should go fight it out with pistols in some unnamed hotel in Morocco. It would make for an excellent youtube video.

I find it hilarious that unbreakable undermines his position by going tinfoil hat rather than keeping an even keel, and CSL is a staunch US republican supporter from Brandon, Manitoba (Canada). That's not to say that you both don't have valid points, but a communicating non-defensively course would help these threads in the biggest way possible.

I giggle sometimes. This is one of those times. biggrin

Now on with the show, this is it- (cue the Bugs & Tweety closing shot)

 Bring your own!

I can't view the statement that somebody is uninformed as character assassination.  Considering I've had just about every insult and inane criticism lobbed my way on these intarnets... if that statement damages your delicate sensibilities, I pity you.  You must swoon when somebody says "damn" or "poppycock".

And likewise... if you think my claim that McCain engages in calling Democrats "Traitors" is a "tinfoil hat" mentality, it likewise shows how low your bar of sensibility is set.  I'll bet the claim that the Earth is round must just, like, blow your freakin mind!


On topic, one thing I find hilarious is how the Texas Republicans seem to always step in piles of their own making.  First they illegally redistricted the state in order to give them "an edge"... and it actually turned out worse for them than if they had left it alone.  And now, they obstructed having Texas participate in Super Tuesday... and the real result was to create a huge amount of Democratic excitement in their state.

That's pretty much why I've been saying anyone who thinks dragging out this primary is a bad thing must be smoking too much crack.  It's keeping the excitement high, and showing a big democratic presence in states which had, prior to Dean heading the DNC, been given up for lost.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 03:45:51 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2008, 03:43:18 PM »

Guys, this is the last time I'm going to say this- keep the comments on the issues at hand and avoid any and all critique's of the posters' characters.  If it happens again, temp bans are getting handed out to all involved. 

If you can't stick to the issues then just. don't. post. 
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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2008, 04:37:57 PM »

BTW, in February, Hillary raised $35 million, Obama raised at least $50 million... and McCain raised $12 million.  So much for his "New York Times bounce".
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2008, 04:50:10 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 03, 2008, 04:06:01 PM

Aside from McCain talking about how all Democrats are traitors...

Stuff like that kills your arguments, unbreakable.  You know I'm not a fan of the Repubs and haven't been for around 20 years - ever since they decided to start trying to legislate morality and spend like hookers with a stolen credit card - but I can't find any reference where McCain called Dems traitors.  If you know of one, I'd like to see the link/reference.

Now the Dems are getting a lot of publicity because they are still duking it out.  And I'm glad to see the fight carried to Texas and Ohio - two states (especially Ohio) that could use a little excitement regarding the race.  But after today, let's face it - the remaining states in question aren't that big (with the exception of PA) nor are they considered true battleground states.  As a result, the FL and MI screw-ups will be captured more and more by the media and that's not going to help the Dems in any way.  Swing voters in both states will see the chaos caused by the DNP's decision to penalize the states from being seated at all versus the RNP's decision to penalize half and therefore eliminate this issue....and I think those swing voters will go to the Repubs as a result.  The possibilities of FL and MI ending up in court or creating a major problem in Denver is a nightmare scenario for the Dem faithful. 

Now you've said that "anyone who thinks dragging out this primary is a bad thing must be smoking too much crack".  Not only is that statement unnecessarily antagonistic, but you have yet to address this very key issue, along with the ability to start saving funds for the general election and getting everyone in line for an orderly convention.  40 years ago the Dems self-destructed in Chicago, resulting in a wave of Republican Presidents beginning with Richard M. Nixon.  That's why getting this wrapped up after today (if possible) is actually good for the Dems. 
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2008, 04:58:37 PM »

I saw this on MSNBC today and it really summarizes one of my points:

McCain’s dream scenario: There are at least two people hoping Sen. Hillary Clinton does well tonight -- Clinton, of course, but also McCain. (Perhaps we should include the Canadian government, but that’s another story…) The last thing McCain needs right now is to face a de facto Democratic nominee by the name of Sen. Barack Obama. For now, McCain's has an incredible challenge in front of him: He has to build a national campaign. He does not need a presumptive Democratic opponent on March 5. But if Obama comes roaring out of Tuesday’s contests as the de facto nominee, it’s going to be a tough few months for the GOP. But not so much if the Dem contests move into Pennsylvania and beyond. Why? Think back to 1996. Obama's $75 million fundraising months will be money that's used to define McCain between now and the conventions. If McCain gets more time to get his campaign structure together, he can minimize the time he's vulnerable to being dramatically outspent.

Source: MSNBC: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/04/727465.aspx
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2008, 05:07:25 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on March 04, 2008, 04:50:10 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 03, 2008, 04:06:01 PM

Aside from McCain talking about how all Democrats are traitors...

Stuff like that kills your arguments, unbreakable.  You know I'm not a fan of the Repubs and haven't been for around 20 years - ever since they decided to start trying to legislate morality and spend like hookers with a stolen credit card - but I can't find any reference where McCain called Dems traitors.  If you know of one, I'd like to see the link/reference.

Now the Dems are getting a lot of publicity because they are still duking it out.  And I'm glad to see the fight carried to Texas and Ohio - two states (especially Ohio) that could use a little excitement regarding the race.  But after today, let's face it - the remaining states in question aren't that big (with the exception of PA) nor are they considered true battleground states.  As a result, the FL and MI screw-ups will be captured more and more by the media and that's not going to help the Dems in any way.  Swing voters in both states will see the chaos caused by the DNP's decision to penalize the states from being seated at all versus the RNP's decision to penalize half and therefore eliminate this issue....and I think those swing voters will go to the Repubs as a result.  The possibilities of FL and MI ending up in court or creating a major problem in Denver is a nightmare scenario for the Dem faithful. 

Now you've said that "anyone who thinks dragging out this primary is a bad thing must be smoking too much crack".  Not only is that statement unnecessarily antagonistic, but you have yet to address this very key issue, along with the ability to start saving funds for the general election and getting everyone in line for an orderly convention.  40 years ago the Dems self-destructed in Chicago, resulting in a wave of Republican Presidents beginning with Richard M. Nixon.  That's why getting this wrapped up after today (if possible) is actually good for the Dems. 

If McCain would stop calling Democrats traitors, I would stop mentioning that he does it.  Check a few days ago, when John "does this sweater make me look gay" McCain was talking about how Obama would surrender to Al Qaeda.  Look it up.

Perhaps you need to address your outrage to St. John rather than Mr. Anonymous Dude on Intarwebzor.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 05:10:39 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2008, 05:12:30 PM »

I would argue that the Democratic party needs Obama to win in Ohio and Texas today and here's why.

If Hillary wins those two states then she and her supporters will argue that she has won all of the big states (California, New York, Ohio, Texas,) and also that they "won" Fla and Michigan even though those two are not being counted.  The other issue is that many of those Super Delegates want to vote for Hillary.  That is why so many committed to her early.  The whole point of Super Delegates is not to follow primary results and to vote as they personally see fit.  The Clinton campaign would technically be "right" about the super delegate issue.  I think they will also push to have Michigan and Florida's electors seated in some way even though Hillary signed an agreement not to do so.  The problem for Dean and the DNC is that they will need Michigan and Florida in November.  So there will be good reasons for the two states to be represented in Denver.

Without Michigan and Florida, and with the proportional primary system it will be very difficult to get to the 2025 electors needed for the nomination. Obama will have won the large majority of states and the total popular vote.  And Hillary will have won all of the big important electoral states. It all adds up to a big mess at the DNC.

Hopefully Obama will close it out today and all of the above will not happen.  Although I have to admit it would be fun to watch.  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2008, 05:13:34 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on March 04, 2008, 04:58:37 PM

I saw this on MSNBC today and it really summarizes one of my points:

McCain’s dream scenario: There are at least two people hoping Sen. Hillary Clinton does well tonight -- Clinton, of course, but also McCain. (Perhaps we should include the Canadian government, but that’s another story…) The last thing McCain needs right now is to face a de facto Democratic nominee by the name of Sen. Barack Obama. For now, McCain's has an incredible challenge in front of him: He has to build a national campaign. He does not need a presumptive Democratic opponent on March 5. But if Obama comes roaring out of Tuesday’s contests as the de facto nominee, it’s going to be a tough few months for the GOP. But not so much if the Dem contests move into Pennsylvania and beyond. Why? Think back to 1996. Obama's $75 million fundraising months will be money that's used to define McCain between now and the conventions. If McCain gets more time to get his campaign structure together, he can minimize the time he's vulnerable to being dramatically outspent.

Source: MSNBC: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/04/727465.aspx

Obama has already won.  This is just being dragged out to keep interest high... which, as I've said, is a good thing.  A great thing, even.

Do I think Hillary still wants to win?  Sure, who wouldn't want to win?  But the establishment itself has already picked their winner.

Think about all the excitement being generated in the Democratic primaries right now.  Would all that even exist if Hillary had given up after Super Tuesday?  Of course not.

The greatest side effect of this is it lays to rest the bullshit talking point that America is a "conservative nation".  There is zero interest in anything going on with the goopers.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 05:16:31 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2008, 05:34:00 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 05:07:25 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on March 04, 2008, 04:50:10 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 03, 2008, 04:06:01 PM

Aside from McCain talking about how all Democrats are traitors...

Stuff like that kills your arguments, unbreakable.  You know I'm not a fan of the Repubs and haven't been for around 20 years - ever since they decided to start trying to legislate morality and spend like hookers with a stolen credit card - but I can't find any reference where McCain called Dems traitors.  If you know of one, I'd like to see the link/reference.

Now the Dems are getting a lot of publicity because they are still duking it out.  And I'm glad to see the fight carried to Texas and Ohio - two states (especially Ohio) that could use a little excitement regarding the race.  But after today, let's face it - the remaining states in question aren't that big (with the exception of PA) nor are they considered true battleground states.  As a result, the FL and MI screw-ups will be captured more and more by the media and that's not going to help the Dems in any way.  Swing voters in both states will see the chaos caused by the DNP's decision to penalize the states from being seated at all versus the RNP's decision to penalize half and therefore eliminate this issue....and I think those swing voters will go to the Repubs as a result.  The possibilities of FL and MI ending up in court or creating a major problem in Denver is a nightmare scenario for the Dem faithful. 

Now you've said that "anyone who thinks dragging out this primary is a bad thing must be smoking too much crack".  Not only is that statement unnecessarily antagonistic, but you have yet to address this very key issue, along with the ability to start saving funds for the general election and getting everyone in line for an orderly convention.  40 years ago the Dems self-destructed in Chicago, resulting in a wave of Republican Presidents beginning with Richard M. Nixon.  That's why getting this wrapped up after today (if possible) is actually good for the Dems. 

If McCain would stop calling Democrats traitors, I would stop mentioning that he does it.  Check a few days ago, when John "does this sweater make me look gay" McCain was talking about how Obama would surrender to Al Qaeda.  Look it up.

Perhaps you need to address your outrage to St. John rather than Mr. Anonymous Dude on Intarwebzor.

Again please point out where John Mccain has used the word traitor in reference to his democratic opponents.   If he is doing it as you claim it should be easy to give us an example.   
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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2008, 05:37:05 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 05:13:34 PM

The greatest side effect of this is it lays to rest the bullshit talking point that America is a "conservative nation".  There is zero interest in anything going on with the goopers.

The funny thing is all of the Republicans I know at work are voting for Hillary.  Just to eff up the Democrats.   icon_biggrin
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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2008, 06:03:30 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on March 04, 2008, 05:34:00 PM

Again please point out where John Mccain has used the word traitor in reference to his democratic opponents.   If he is doing it as you claim it should be easy to give us an example.   

Your access to Google is just as powerful as mine.  Do your own homework, kid.
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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2008, 06:04:29 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on March 04, 2008, 05:37:05 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 05:13:34 PM

The greatest side effect of this is it lays to rest the bullshit talking point that America is a "conservative nation".  There is zero interest in anything going on with the goopers.

The funny thing is all of the Republicans I know at work are voting for Hillary.  Just to eff up the Democrats.   icon_biggrin

Yeah... good luck with that.  Either one is going to be the next president, so... yeah.  Lots of luck.
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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2008, 06:13:19 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 06:04:29 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on March 04, 2008, 05:37:05 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 05:13:34 PM

The greatest side effect of this is it lays to rest the bullshit talking point that America is a "conservative nation".  There is zero interest in anything going on with the goopers.

The funny thing is all of the Republicans I know at work are voting for Hillary.  Just to eff up the Democrats.   icon_biggrin

Yeah... good luck with that.  Either one is going to be the next president, so... yeah.  Lots of luck.

You are probabaly right but I think it is funny to see the smiles on their faces as they talk about voting for Hillary and then bragging about it to all of the Obama people passing out flyers.  2008 is definatly one crazy election year.  While many Republicans hate Hillary with a passion they seem ambivolent to Obama (at least right now,) even though their policies are nearly identical.  I think that says alot about Obama's ability to bring people together as President. 
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« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2008, 06:37:38 PM »

I agree that Obama seems to be less of a politically loaded candidate, but then again he hasn't had over a decade of far-right hatred and propaganda aimed his way.  I have little doubt the entire Republican establishment will throw everything they have at him for eight years, exactly like they did with Clinton.

And the more successful the Democratic President is, the more hatred they will throw his way.  It's all jealousy, really.  If they were REALLY about being fiscally responsible, they should have loved Clinton.  He was the most fiscally responsible President in our lifetimes.
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« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2008, 06:37:42 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on March 04, 2008, 06:13:19 PM

I think that says alot about Obama's ability to bring people together as President. 

I think it says a lot more about which was targeted first by the Republican attack machinery.
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« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2008, 06:58:03 PM »

To be fair there is "attack machinary" on both sides.  So far the candidate on either side who has gone negative the most is certainly Hillary.  But so far the negative attacks have bounced off of Obama.  We'll see what happens when we get to the national race.
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« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2008, 07:10:08 PM »

Quote from: Purge on March 04, 2008, 01:39:55 PM

What was that about assassinating characters? You two should go fight it out with pistols in some unnamed hotel in Morocco. It would make for an excellent youtube video.

I find it hilarious that unbreakable undermines his position by going tinfoil hat rather than keeping an even keel, and CSL is a staunch US republican supporter from Brandon, Manitoba (Canada). That's not to say that you both don't have valid points, but a communicating non-defensively course would help these threads in the biggest way possible.

I giggle sometimes. This is one of those times. biggrin

Now on with the show, this is it- (cue the Bugs & Tweety closing shot)

 Bring your own!

I'd vote for Obama if I were a US citizen, not McCain - I just like McCain as a person and find the mindless attacks on him and his party to be childish and without merit. I'm probably leaning towards Conservative in Canada, which makes me a Democrat in the states.
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« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2008, 07:32:02 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on March 04, 2008, 05:37:05 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 05:13:34 PM

The greatest side effect of this is it lays to rest the bullshit talking point that America is a "conservative nation".  There is zero interest in anything going on with the goopers.

The funny thing is all of the Republicans I know at work are voting for Hillary.  Just to eff up the Democrats.   icon_biggrin

it's vote for the worst - presidential edition
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« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2008, 07:36:20 PM »

Quote from: CSL on March 04, 2008, 07:10:08 PM

Quote from: Purge on March 04, 2008, 01:39:55 PM

What was that about assassinating characters? You two should go fight it out with pistols in some unnamed hotel in Morocco. It would make for an excellent youtube video.

I find it hilarious that unbreakable undermines his position by going tinfoil hat rather than keeping an even keel, and CSL is a staunch US republican supporter from Brandon, Manitoba (Canada). That's not to say that you both don't have valid points, but a communicating non-defensively course would help these threads in the biggest way possible.

I giggle sometimes. This is one of those times. biggrin

Now on with the show, this is it- (cue the Bugs & Tweety closing shot)

 Bring your own!

I'd vote for Obama if I were a US citizen, not McCain - I just like McCain as a person and find the mindless attacks on him and his party to be childish and without merit. I'm probably leaning towards Conservative in Canada, which makes me a Democrat in the states.

That's what is great about Unbreakable.  Next to him everybody seems like a conservative. 
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« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2008, 07:43:38 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 06:03:30 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on March 04, 2008, 05:34:00 PM

Again please point out where John Mccain has used the word traitor in reference to his democratic opponents.   If he is doing it as you claim it should be easy to give us an example.   

Your access to Google is just as powerful as mine.  Do your own homework, kid.

I have...didn't see it.  Link it or admit you were off the deep end again.
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« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2008, 07:51:25 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 06:37:38 PM

they should have loved Clinton.  He was the most fiscally responsible President in our lifetimes.

I agree 100%.   Clinton was by far the most fiscally responsible President in decades.  Unfortunately many Conservatives will never admit that because they hate everyone associated with liberalism no matter what.  There are some liberals who are the same way about conservatives.    icon_wink
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« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2008, 08:57:39 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 06:03:30 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on March 04, 2008, 05:34:00 PM

Again please point out where John Mccain has used the word traitor in reference to his democratic opponents.   If he is doing it as you claim it should be easy to give us an example.   

Your access to Google is just as powerful as mine.  Do your own homework, kid.
The burden of proof is on the claimant.  You can't just throw out a random statement in a debate, then expect the *other* person to prove you right.  That is, if one is actually interested in *debating*, instead of blindly slinging mud.
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« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2008, 09:00:38 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on March 04, 2008, 07:36:20 PM

That's what is great about Unbreakable.  Next to him everybody seems like a conservative. 

That's what's great about the Republican establishment.  Next to them, every ordinary US citizen seems like a bleeding heart liberal.
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« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2008, 09:02:19 PM »

Quote from: Laner on March 04, 2008, 08:57:39 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 06:03:30 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on March 04, 2008, 05:34:00 PM

Again please point out where John Mccain has used the word traitor in reference to his democratic opponents.   If he is doing it as you claim it should be easy to give us an example.   

Your access to Google is just as powerful as mine.  Do your own homework, kid.
The burden of proof is on the claimant.  You can't just throw out a random statement in a debate, then expect the *other* person to prove you right.  That is, if one is actually interested in *debating*, instead of blindly slinging mud.

Not really.  This may surprise you to know, but it's not my job to do anyone's research, or to educate them.

Also, if someone wants to say I'm wrong... the burden of proof is on them to prove me wrong.  I don't see anyone else here writing an entire college thesis to back up everything they say, so why on earth would I bother doing it myself?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 09:05:54 PM by unbreakable » Logged
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« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2008, 09:05:02 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 09:02:19 PM

Quote from: Laner on March 04, 2008, 08:57:39 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 04, 2008, 06:03:30 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on March 04, 2008, 05:34:00 PM

Again please point out where John Mccain has used the word traitor in reference to his democratic opponents.   If he is doing it as you claim it should be easy to give us an example.   

Your access to Google is just as powerful as mine.  Do your own homework, kid.
The burden of proof is on the claimant.  You can't just throw out a random statement in a debate, then expect the *other* person to prove you right.  That is, if one is actually interested in *debating*, instead of blindly slinging mud.

Not really.  This may surprise you to know, but it's not my job to do anyone's research, or to educate them.

Also, if someone wants to say I'm wrong... the burden of proof is on them to prove me wrong.

You are saying McCain called Obama or Clinton a traitor.  Others are saying he has not done so.  Are you asking them to prove a negative? 

You made the claim.  Others have called you on it.  The burden of proof is on you.

Now's the chance for you to gain some actual credibility.  All you have to do is post a link.

Seems simple enough.



« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 09:22:43 PM by denoginizer » Logged

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