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Author Topic: Please explain to me how this is not ridiculous. Come on guys.  (Read 582 times)
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ATB
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« on: August 28, 2015, 01:37:02 PM »

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“With the new semester beginning and an influx of new students on campus, it is important to participate in making our campus welcoming and inclusive for all,” wrote Donna Braquet in a posting on the university’s website. “One way to do that is to use a student’s chosen name and their correct pronouns.”



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TiLT
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2015, 02:10:37 PM »

I dunno. It's strange, but all new words are strange until you get used to them. This is new territory for most of us. What's your suggested solution?
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ATB
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2015, 02:42:51 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on August 28, 2015, 02:10:37 PM

I dunno. It's strange, but all new words are strange until you get used to them. This is new territory for most of us.

Are you trolling?


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What's your suggested solution?

He and She.
Him and Her.
His and Hers.
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Scraper
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2015, 04:14:36 PM »

Quote from: ATB on August 28, 2015, 02:42:51 PM

Quote from: TiLT on August 28, 2015, 02:10:37 PM

I dunno. It's strange, but all new words are strange until you get used to them. This is new territory for most of us.

Are you trolling?


Quote
What's your suggested solution?

He and She.
Him and Her.
His and Hers.

I feel like the college is the one trolling, just to see what kind of a reaction they get. Because what they are proposing is just complete horse shit. We have two sexes and we have words to identify the sexes, no amount of PC over reaction can change that.
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Teggy
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2015, 04:18:59 PM »

I don't know, I think if people want to be referred to in a certain way it's ok to work with them as long as it comes from an honest place (for example, I don't need to refer to someone with some sort of Pokemon identifier, because no matter what they say, they are not a Pokemon). Although I don't even understand how they intend the xe and ze stuff to be used.

What I don't like with regard to Universities is the overuse of trigger warnings. That particular concept has gotten way out of hand.  It's ok for Universities to create an inclusive environment, but they need to make sure they are not coddling people to the point of being unable to manage in the real world.
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Lee
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2015, 04:50:58 PM »

It is stupid, but who cares?

The University of Tennessee's Office of Diversity and Inclusion posted it though, so they are kind of just doing their job. It was a request is all. Of course the religious right is going to go nuts over it, hence why Fox is covering it. I am sure you are thoroughly outraged ATB, after all there isn't anything more serious going on we should be talking about.
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2015, 05:19:11 PM »

Quote from: ATB on August 28, 2015, 02:42:51 PM

Quote from: TiLT on August 28, 2015, 02:10:37 PM

I dunno. It's strange, but all new words are strange until you get used to them. This is new territory for most of us.

Are you trolling?

What the hell? You keep whining about your persecution complex on this forum, and then when someone actually tries to give you a serious answer and encourage actual discussion, you go straight into accusation territory. I'm not a religious man, but I can tell you that the kind of hostility (passive or active) you display towards other people, whether you know them or not, is very fucking far from what your holy book encourages.

You post a thread about a topic you've previously demonstrated a very non-humane viewpoint about, do not offer anything except an image, then passive-aggressively ward off any upcoming replies. Do you see the problem here? If not, go have a look in the mirror.
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Exodor
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2015, 05:44:44 PM »

I assume you're talking about the same article that was posed at OO - hard to tell since I don't see any links in the OP.

If so then you'll note, as Blackhawk pointed out, that list of pronouns is only provided in case someone wishes to be addressed with them.  They're by no means mandating their use only letting people know they exist.


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TiLT
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2015, 06:10:38 PM »

ATB's transphobia aside for a second, there's been talk of similar additions to the Norwegian language recently, though they come off as a little more sensible than the suggestions in the image above.

The Norwegian word for "he" is "han", while the word for "she" is "henne". The gender neutral variant would be "hen", which makes a lot of sense. I don't think it's an official part of the language yet, but I don't think there would be much resistance to the concept.
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Lee
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2015, 08:10:25 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on August 28, 2015, 06:10:38 PM

ATB's transphobia aside for a second, there's been talk of similar additions to the Norwegian language recently, though they come off as a little more sensible than the suggestions in the image above.

The Norwegian word for "he" is "han", while the word for "she" is "henne". The gender neutral variant would be "hen", which makes a lot of sense. I don't think it's an official part of the language yet, but I don't think there would be much resistance to the concept.

Is it needed? Is there a large population that needs/wants this? When would we use such terms? If in public and you assume the person you are talking to is transgender so use these gender neutral terms, and they are not, is it an insult? But then again, doesn't a transgender person still want to be called him/her? If you know someone who is transgender and they want to be referred to by gender neutral terms, great. Not sure we need official words.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 08:42:17 PM by Lee » Logged
TiLT
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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2015, 08:42:43 PM »

Quote from: Lee on August 28, 2015, 08:10:25 PM

Is it needed?

Probably.

Quote
Is there a large population that needs/wants this?

Probably not. Does the population have to be large for something like this to be valuable though? The LGBT community is a minority, but that doesn't make their opinions worth less than others. Whether or not adding these words is actually what they want is a different matter.

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When would we use such terms?

When asked to, or if we're uncertain about someone's gender. It would be weird for a little while as these things don't change overnight. We've all grown up in a society where transsexualism's purpose has been to joke with, something that "other people" do. That's not the case anymore. We live in a more enlightened society (those parts that aren't entrenched in religious fundamentalism, anyway) these days.
 
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If in public and you assume the person you are talking to is transgender, and they are not, is it an insult?

Probably, but this kind of thing would become less of a problem as we get used to the words. Right now, someone suggesting that you're transsexual when you're not could be the most insulting thing ever, but is it really? There's a mountain of prejudice and old habits to climb here.

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But then again, doesn't a transgender person still want to be called him/her?

Depends on the person, I suppose. If they want to be referred to as him or her, then that's fine. Gender neutral words are mostly intended for people of indeterminate gender, I suspect. Modern research into the subject has revealed that, unlike what we used to believe, gender actually isn't a binary value.

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If you know someone who is transgender and they want to be referred to by gender neutral terms, great. Not sure we need official words.

We need official words because otherwise they'll never be accepted, and we'll never get used to them. Giving gender neutral people, who don't identify with our traditional gender division, their own official words is a great way to demonstrate that we take them seriously and that they're just as much worth as any other of us.
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Ironrod
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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2015, 12:08:49 AM »

Gender-neutral language was a big issue when I was a newspaper editor in the late '70s. The words that we use affect the way we think about things. The problem is that English doesn't have a neutral case. It's easy enough to neuter nouns like "chairman" and to call actresses "actors," but changing the pronouns just seems silly. (Having said that, I still write "s/he" to mean "he or she" because that's a convenient shorthand).

It seems like a battle that we fought and abandoned decades ago, and I don't see much point to taking it up again. But college students think they're discovering everything for the first time, so...knock yourselves out, kids.
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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2015, 12:21:33 PM »

Why don't we refer to everyone as "it"? Oh wait, now I know. Because we'd all sound like Golum.
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ATB
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2015, 01:10:29 PM »

Transphobia is not a thing no matter how many times you say it.  Stop being so Godphobic.
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ATB
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2015, 01:12:12 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on August 28, 2015, 05:19:11 PM

What the hell? You keep whining about your persecution complex on this forum, and then when someone actually tries to give you a serious answer and encourage actual discussion, you go straight into accusation territory.

I didn't know if it was a serious answer which is why I asked.  Justifying this kind of lunacy, I thought, required a check to make sure you weren't kidding.  Get it?
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TiLT
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« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2015, 01:30:19 PM »

Quote from: ATB on August 31, 2015, 01:10:29 PM

Transphobia is not a thing no matter how many times you say it.

*personal attack removed*
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 03:37:59 PM by Graham » Logged
ATB
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« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2015, 07:22:10 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on August 31, 2015, 01:30:19 PM

You're a transphobic, homophobic, and spiteful man. You don't have to recognize these things for it to be true, but it would sure as hell help you on your path to redemption.

Again, the left's method to label anyone who disagrees with them as someone full of hate is effective, but that doesn't mean it's true. I am none of those things.  

*Please refrain from personal attacks*

« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 09:15:27 PM by farley2k » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2015, 05:14:32 PM »

You're adorable.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2015, 07:01:21 PM »

Is it open season on personal attacks now?   
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Lee
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2015, 07:03:51 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on September 01, 2015, 07:01:21 PM

Is it open season on personal attacks now?   

Heck, ATB's "attack" made me laugh, it should be allowed for that reason alone.
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TiLT
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2015, 07:51:29 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on September 01, 2015, 07:01:21 PM

Is it open season on personal attacks now?   

Well, I have no issue with ATB's attack on me, since I started it and pretty much asked for it. I would assume that since he replied to me in kind, he also had no issue with me saying what I did in the first place, beyond him obviously disagreeing.
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« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2015, 02:14:14 PM »

Quote from: ATB on August 31, 2015, 07:22:10 PM

Quote from: TiLT on August 31, 2015, 01:30:19 PM

You're a transphobic, homophobic, and spiteful man. You don't have to recognize these things for it to be true, but it would sure as hell help you on your path to redemption.

Again, the left's method to label anyone who disagrees with them as someone full of hate is effective, but that doesn't mean it's true. I am none of those things.  

*Please refrain from personal attacks*


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ATB
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« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2015, 02:46:18 PM »

Hmm. I notice Tilt's post is unmolested.
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Lee
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« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2015, 05:07:41 PM »

So we can't get him to remove pictures of a man getting executed or his political crap from the funny thread, yet he will remove a mild personal attack here? I am so confused on what ATB's idea of "acceptable" forum behavior is.
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« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2015, 05:53:20 PM »

Quote from: Lee on September 02, 2015, 05:07:41 PM

So we can't get him to remove pictures of a man getting executed or his political crap from the funny thread, yet he will remove a mild personal attack here? I am so confused on what ATB's idea of "acceptable" forum behavior is.

He didn't edit it, farley did.
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ATB
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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2015, 06:50:52 PM »

Quote from: Scraper on September 02, 2015, 02:14:14 PM

Quote from: ATB on August 31, 2015, 07:22:10 PM

Quote from: TiLT on August 31, 2015, 01:30:19 PM

You're a transphobic, homophobic, and spiteful man. You don't have to recognize these things for it to be true, but it would sure as hell help you on your path to redemption.

Again, the left's method to label anyone who disagrees with them as someone full of hate is effective, but that doesn't mean it's true. I am none of those things.  

*Please refrain from personal attacks*




It wasn't on any level different than tilt's post, yet here we are.

Now that we have indulged all of this nonsense, we have 'boys' this with gender disorder  suing  school boards to use the bathroom if the opposite sex.  I have no idea how none of you sees anything wrong with this craziness.
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« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2015, 07:11:50 PM »

Quote from: ATB on August 28, 2015, 01:37:02 PM

Quote
“With the new semester beginning and an influx of new students on campus, it is important to participate in making our campus welcoming and inclusive for all,” wrote Donna Braquet in a posting on the university’s website. “One way to do that is to use a student’s chosen name and their correct pronouns.”





Would you like me to tell those damn kids to get off your lawn, grandpa?  

Of course we see it as silly.  Every generation does something that the last one finds silly.  Hippies in the 60's, beatniks in the 50's, gender neutral folks in the 10's.  There will be something they find silly a generation from now.  The world didn't end the other times, so why the hell should anyone care?  It's not like anyone is getting violent over this.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 07:16:34 PM by hepcat » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2015, 09:22:21 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on September 02, 2015, 05:53:20 PM

Quote from: Lee on September 02, 2015, 05:07:41 PM

So we can't get him to remove pictures of a man getting executed or his political crap from the funny thread, yet he will remove a mild personal attack here? I am so confused on what ATB's idea of "acceptable" forum behavior is.

He didn't edit it, farley did.

LOL, figures.
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« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2015, 12:46:47 AM »

Quote from: ATB on September 02, 2015, 06:50:52 PM

Quote from: Scraper on September 02, 2015, 02:14:14 PM

Quote from: ATB on August 31, 2015, 07:22:10 PM

Quote from: TiLT on August 31, 2015, 01:30:19 PM

You're a transphobic, homophobic, and spiteful man. You don't have to recognize these things for it to be true, but it would sure as hell help you on your path to redemption.

Again, the left's method to label anyone who disagrees with them as someone full of hate is effective, but that doesn't mean it's true. I am none of those things.  

*Please refrain from personal attacks*




It wasn't on any level different than tilt's post, yet here we are.

Now that we have indulged all of this nonsense, we have 'boys' this with gender disorder  suing  school boards to use the bathroom if the opposite sex.  I have no idea how none of you sees anything wrong with this craziness.

Did you even read any of the responses prior to throwing all of us into the "not caring" pile? Unlike you most of us see the college example and the boy in the girls bathroom example as an outside occurrence that is not the new norm. But conservatives are latching on to it as the new "oh my gord the end is near" type of event.
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« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2015, 01:17:48 AM »

Are you really so naive to say that this isn't the new normal? The fringe are running things now.

They have us believing that fundamental things are no longer true.  there's more than two sexes!  Being abnormal is normal.  Mental disorder trumps logic and history and science. A guy is a girl because he thinks he is.  Try to fix the disconnect? No!  Embrace it!  Change the whole world so that mental disfunction is accomdated...

Its preposterous.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 01:23:35 AM by ATB » Logged
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« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2015, 02:08:20 AM »

Quote from: ATB on September 03, 2015, 01:17:48 AM

Are you really so naive to say that this isn't the new normal? The fringe are running things now.

They have us believing that fundamental things are no longer true.  there's more than two sexes!  Being abnormal is normal.  Mental disorder trumps logic and history and science. A guy is a girl because he thinks he is.  Try to fix the disconnect? No!  Embrace it!  Change the whole world so that mental disfunction is accomdated...

Its preposterous.

Who needs Eco or Zeke? And ATB believes in the importance of science and logic now!
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« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2015, 05:21:42 PM »

Quote from: ATB on September 03, 2015, 01:17:48 AM

Are you really so naive to say that this isn't the new normal? The fringe are running things now.

Are you really so full of hate for anything that you don't agree with that you think it's the end of the world?  What in the hell is being hurt by this?  Name one damn thing.  Other than your sense of self righteous indignation, that is.

Welcome to America:  the land of free speech.  You don't like it, the door is over there.

USA..USA...USA!   icon_razz
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« Reply #32 on: Today at 02:12:48 AM »

locking topic since it's just a place to trade barbs.
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