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Author Topic: The 2012 Presidential Election: Obama Wins!!!!!!  (Read 10322 times)
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pr0ner
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« Reply #400 on: November 03, 2012, 09:44:45 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on November 03, 2012, 08:46:55 PM

Ceekay's poking fun at a defense Eco used earlier when he couldn't (or wouldn't) back up one of his more outrageous claims.   icon_wink

Okay, I sure hope so!
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« Reply #401 on: November 03, 2012, 10:52:59 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on November 03, 2012, 09:44:45 PM

Quote from: hepcat on November 03, 2012, 08:46:55 PM

Ceekay's poking fun at a defense Eco used earlier when he couldn't (or wouldn't) back up one of his more outrageous claims.   icon_wink

Okay, I sure hope so!

yep, I even copied and pasted the defense.  I wanted in on the fun!
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« Reply #402 on: November 04, 2012, 12:26:30 AM »

Quote from: rickfc on November 03, 2012, 06:12:24 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on November 03, 2012, 05:11:54 PM

Quote from: Eco-Logic on November 02, 2012, 09:45:13 PM

He is pro-life
He is against gay marriage;  please note, I do not believe gay partners should be prohibited from receiving the same benefits married couples receive in regard to taxes, insurance etc.  From a purely religious stand point however, I believe "marriage" is between a man and a woman and I ask you to please let this go, as it is not worth discussing further than this.

Christianity doesn't own the word or even the concept of marriage, the thought that it does is ludicrous. Marriage as a concept predates Christianity and exists in just about every culture around the world. The semantic game being played is horseshit of the highest degree. If a pair of atheists can get married, so should a same sex couple.

dingdingdingdingdingdingding

Incorrect.  None of those societies spoke English.  Duh.
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« Reply #403 on: November 04, 2012, 03:02:53 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on November 03, 2012, 08:46:55 PM

Ceekay's poking fun at a defense Eco used earlier when he couldn't (or wouldn't) back up one of his more outrageous claims.   icon_wink

Yeah, blaming the Bush's wreckage on 9/11 was just a dodge. I'll grant that the war in Afghanistan was necessary, though, FWIW.
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #404 on: November 04, 2012, 11:57:43 AM »

A dodge??  Really??

Holy hell you all continue to amaze.
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« Reply #405 on: November 04, 2012, 12:05:13 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on November 03, 2012, 09:14:32 PM

I picture hep airing in front of a pentium 2 computer wearing one of those spinning helicopter hats.

And nothing else! AMIRITE?!   unibrow
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« Reply #406 on: November 04, 2012, 12:37:01 PM »

Indeed, just the hat.🈹
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« Reply #407 on: November 04, 2012, 12:51:00 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on November 03, 2012, 09:14:32 PM

I picture hep airing in front of a pentium 2 computer wearing one of those spinning helicopter hats.

That must have made your coworkers at Taco Bell bust out laughing!  Good for you, coming out of your shell like that!  Keep it up and the shift manager might even promote you to the drive through.
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« Reply #408 on: November 04, 2012, 01:32:50 PM »

Quote from: ATB on November 02, 2012, 01:16:04 PM

We have two bad choices. Arguing passionately about one being better than the other is pointless when they're identically awful.


Quote from: ATB on November 02, 2012, 04:08:03 PM

My claim is that obama supporters look like fools for denouncing a guy who supports a different candidate than you when they are almost entirely the same candidate and neither of them is good for this country.  And that you guys are indicting eco for doing the same things that many of you did when bush was in the white house.


With all the focus on Eco-Logic's continuous trolling, I'm not sure this little take on the situation has gotten enough attention.

Does anyone have any idea what in the hell ATB is talking about?  There haven't been two more diametrically opposed presidential candidates in my lifetime.

Is he some kind hyper-specific single-issue voter upset that neither candidate will do enough to ban JujyFruits, or is he making some sort of bizarre meta-point about Mitt Romney and Barack Obama sharing a large percentage of human genetic code?

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #409 on: November 04, 2012, 01:48:41 PM »

He had some rebuttals a page or two ago.  When someone takes the stance of a nihilst, there's nothing you can successfully argue for with them.  It's best to just let them be angry and go about your day.
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« Reply #410 on: November 04, 2012, 04:10:31 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on November 04, 2012, 12:51:00 PM

Quote from: Eco-Logic on November 03, 2012, 09:14:32 PM

I picture hep airing in front of a pentium 2 computer wearing one of those spinning helicopter hats.

That must have made your coworkers at Taco Bell bust out laughing!  Good for you, coming out of your shell like that!  Keep it up and the shift manager might even promote you to the drive through.

I won't stand for any type of inference that there is anything wrong in any regard with Taco Bell.

Take it back.
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« Reply #411 on: November 04, 2012, 04:53:08 PM »

Quote from: ATB on November 04, 2012, 04:10:31 PM

Quote from: hepcat on November 04, 2012, 12:51:00 PM

Quote from: Eco-Logic on November 03, 2012, 09:14:32 PM

I picture hep airing in front of a pentium 2 computer wearing one of those spinning helicopter hats.

That must have made your coworkers at Taco Bell bust out laughing!  Good for you, coming out of your shell like that!  Keep it up and the shift manager might even promote you to the drive through.

I won't stand for any type of inference that there is anything wrong in any regard with Taco Bell.

Take it back.

There was no insult whatsoever.  I think it's great that there's someplace Eco can be successful and happy. 
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« Reply #412 on: November 04, 2012, 08:32:22 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on November 04, 2012, 01:32:50 PM


There haven't been two more diametrically opposed presidential candidates in my lifetime.


Depends on which Romney we're talking about. If it's the non-scary moderate who's been running since the first debate (and who governed MA during the first half of his term), then I agree that the differences between him and Obama are minor. If it's the severe conservative of the primaries (and the second half of his term in MA, after he abandoned the job and started running for president), then I agree with you. If we're talking about some unknown mashup, then all I can say is that both of the Romneys and Obama are tools of the military-industrial complex. Their corporate masters differ, but they both serve the ruling class.

I'm guessing that's what ATB had in mind.
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« Reply #413 on: November 05, 2012, 12:23:53 AM »

Quote from: Ironrod on November 04, 2012, 08:32:22 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on November 04, 2012, 01:32:50 PM


There haven't been two more diametrically opposed presidential candidates in my lifetime.


Depends on which Romney we're talking about. If it's the non-scary moderate who's been running since the first debate (and who governed MA during the first half of his term), then I agree that the differences between him and Obama are minor. If it's the severe conservative of the primaries (and the second half of his term in MA, after he abandoned the job and started running for president), then I agree with you. If we're talking about some unknown mashup, then all I can say is that both of the Romneys and Obama are tools of the military-industrial complex. Their corporate masters differ, but they both serve the ruling class.

I'm guessing that's what ATB had in mind.


Perhaps, but that continuous reinvention of Mitt Romney's positions is one of the many stark difference between him and Barack Obama.  Remember back in 2008 when Republicans spent months touting John McCain's experience and consistency as the most important qualifications to be president?  Four years later, they've nominated a man whose political platform is pulled apart and relaid on a weekly basis.

What is Romney's plan for working with Israel?  Sometimes he publicly insults all the Palestinian people as though he wants to precipitate an open conflict.  Other times, in debates, he talks about forging a permanent peace, pays lip service to Obama's track record, but complains that he would have done everything sooner, faster, and produced better results though force of will.  In the infamous "47%" video, he told a room of wealthy donors that his plan was to do nothing, kick the can down the road, and hope that things would get better all on their own.

Even the long-advertised economic plan to slash taxes, increase spending, and fix the deficit somehow was disavowed during the first debate, with Mitt Romney furrowing his brow and expressing total bewilderment that such a lunatic plan had ever been associated with his campaign...only to have his campaign issue press releases for days to "clarify" that yes, the plan was still in place.

The only thing we actually know about Mitt Romney's governing philosophy is that he will claim just about anything to appease the people in front of him.  What does ATB think is the Obama equivalent of this perpetual metamorphosis?  His position change on gay marriage?

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #414 on: November 05, 2012, 01:03:03 AM »

CNN/ORC national poll shows presidential race is all tied up, 49%-49%.
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« Reply #415 on: November 05, 2012, 01:10:22 AM »

Quote from: ATB on November 05, 2012, 01:03:03 AM

CNN/ORC national poll shows presidential race is all tied up, 49%-49%.

Soooo. If you completely ignore the way we actually elect the President, that poll shows the race tied. Got it.
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« Reply #416 on: November 05, 2012, 01:17:44 AM »

Quote from: Calavera on November 05, 2012, 01:10:22 AM

Quote from: ATB on November 05, 2012, 01:03:03 AM

CNN/ORC national poll shows presidential race is all tied up, 49%-49%.

Soooo. If you completely ignore the way we actually elect the President, that poll shows the race tied. Got it.

And 1 poll of many national polls released today, none of which showed a lead for Romney and a number of which showed a lead for Obama.
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« Reply #417 on: November 05, 2012, 01:24:58 AM »

Rasmussen has 'Obama: 237 - Romney: 206 - Toss-up: 95' for the Electoral College, so I guess they cannot be trusted anymore biggrin
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« Reply #418 on: November 05, 2012, 07:52:03 AM »

Not sure if this is the right place but here goes - What are you criteria's for voting when the time comes?

Is it whats best for you personally? For the country in the short term? Foreign relations?

In Denmark I know a lot of people vote with their wallets so to speak, in that if you are a business owner you vote one direction, and if you are employed you vote another. Used to be the agricultural sector voted in a third way (We have many parties with an equal chance of being the government) but since automation has increased the number of people in that sector has dropped radically.

As an example, personally I vote out from a social perspective - Who seems to care most about societies bottom, who wants to help (Through increased taxes though, obviously) and the like.

While I know western media is heavily Democratically favoring for some odd reason (i.e. I know I'm media biased), I would vote for Obama for that reason if I were an American , but I have only the briefest of knowledge of the politics behind the Democracts which I assume are those that will come into play, and not the person in office?
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« Reply #419 on: November 05, 2012, 12:56:14 PM »

It's usually based on which name is first on the ballot.  We're too lazy to read two things.
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« Reply #420 on: November 05, 2012, 01:27:41 PM »

Quote from: Calavera on November 05, 2012, 01:10:22 AM

Quote from: ATB on November 05, 2012, 01:03:03 AM

CNN/ORC national poll shows presidential race is all tied up, 49%-49%.

Soooo. If you completely ignore the way we actually elect the President, that poll shows the race tied. Got it.

I made no commentary either way.  But all the news orgs showing it even must find the polls worthwhile even if mighty Calavera dismisses them.
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« Reply #421 on: November 05, 2012, 01:38:36 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on November 05, 2012, 12:56:14 PM

It's usually based on which name is first on the ballot.  We're too lazy to read two things.

I usually go by who has the hotter wife. In event of a tie I then flip a coin.

If I cannot find a coin I flip a pollster. 

Damn that sounds wrong. 'Woke up this Mornin' and boy howdy, I flipped one hell of a pollster'.
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« Reply #422 on: November 05, 2012, 02:21:03 PM »

Okay, now that I'm awake and have had my first cup of coffee, I'll address Razgon's question with less levity.

I choose my candidate based on who I think best represents the needs of the middle and lower class.  The upper class has the resources necessary to defend itself in most cases.  

No, I'm not advocating an entitlement government, but I am for a government that tries to help the majority of its citizens realize their dreams.  If that makes me a socialist, so be it.  But I think my beliefs are closer to what our founding fathers were, to be honest.  

I also vote for the candidate who doesn't use religion as his excuse for all his actions.  That rarely ends well.  You can believe in whoever you want.  I just don't want you to tell me you're right because of that belief.  I want facts.  

Do I believe that Obama is perfect?  Hell no.  But he at least represents some of the beliefs I feel strongly about.  Romney on the other hand, represents very, very few.  

And beyond that, I also just don't think Romney has a strong enough grasp on our economy to turn it around.  He's never presented a clear plan for economic recovery, and Ryan's co opted plans just don't add up when the numbers are examined.

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« Reply #423 on: November 05, 2012, 04:36:56 PM »

If we're talking presidential:

I used to vote for whatever candidate was most economically advantageous to my own, selfish way of living.  Then I realized that who the president was barely mattered to me since I am a such a financial minority (forever single, high-ish tax bracket, mixed investment/regular income, no kids, no mortgage) in this country that neither party gives two shits about my vote so I get raped with taxes regardless.

So this year I'm deciding my vote based on a couple of factors:
A) He who is more like me from a social politics standpoint.  I am anti-religion in government, pro equality, and generally against everything the conservative Republicans stand for.  While I understand certain arguments (abortion, for example, definitely has two sides), when it comes to certain things like gay-marriage, I literally cannot look at anyone with an opposing viewpoint to mine without thinking they are literally fucking retarded.  Character flaw in me, probably, but it's really not worth arguing so don't bother.
B) How the current president makes us look to other nations around the world.  I travel internationally a lot both for business and leisure, so I actually care how I'm viewed when I step foot on foreign soil.  I can tell you during the Bush administration I did my best to hide that I was an American because we did an epic amount of stupid shit during that amount of time that caused a ridiculous amount of foreign disdain.  Overall, I think Obama's done a good job with foreign policy and repaired a lot of what went wrong in the past.  I actually don't think Romney would do a bad job here, but unfortunately he has the stench of the Bush party on him so we're going to lose some points if he is elected.  Not a lot, but some.

Now when it comes to state and local politics, I like to think I am in the 'stop stupid Californians' party.  Unfortunately I am outnumbered and we continually pass measures that we can't afford.  Fuck this state.  YOU'RE LUCKY YOU HAVE NICE WEATHER, CALIFORNIA.
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« Reply #424 on: November 05, 2012, 05:35:51 PM »

Quote from: gellar on November 05, 2012, 04:36:56 PM

Overall, I think Obama's done a good job with foreign policy and continued many of Bush's programs and in fact expanded them to continually violate other nation's sovereignty via drone strikes and also permanently extended the war on terror. Oh and we can kill American citizens without trial too.

FTFY.
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« Reply #425 on: November 05, 2012, 05:40:20 PM »

Which american citizens have we killed without trial?  I know Obama authorized the death of Anwar al-Awlaki.  He was an american citizen but also a senior figure in Al Qaeda.  His companion, an American citizen, was also killed.  That was unfortunate.  However, I don't believe Obama is indiscriminately killing friendly american citizens.  

Yes, I don't believe we should give that kind of power to anyone, but I also am aware that sometimes things are done that I can't possibly condone in order to keep the majority of our citizens safe.  It's a nasty fact of foreign policy that every country has its share of cloak and dagger stuff. 

Like I've said, no candidate gives me everything I want.  But I'm not going to rail against the system by dropping out of it.  I'm going to try and change it through my choices in representatives...even if it means through baby steps.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 05:49:47 PM by hepcat » Logged

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« Reply #426 on: November 05, 2012, 05:54:20 PM »

Quote from: ATB on November 05, 2012, 05:35:51 PM

Quote from: gellar on November 05, 2012, 04:36:56 PM

Overall, I think Obama's done a good job with foreign policy and continued many of Bush's programs and in fact expanded them to continually violate other nation's sovereignty via drone strikes and also permanently extended the war on terror. Oh and we can kill American citizens without trial too.

FTFY.

Better drone strikes than soldiers.
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« Reply #427 on: November 05, 2012, 09:29:23 PM »



Quote
"What if I were to tell you that I have something in my room that could change the entire electionů"
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« Reply #428 on: November 05, 2012, 10:49:08 PM »

just saw this on Facebook, it made me LOL heartily:

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« Reply #429 on: November 06, 2012, 02:12:19 AM »

Good luck, America.
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« Reply #430 on: November 06, 2012, 03:10:01 AM »

Quote from: ATB on November 06, 2012, 02:12:19 AM

Good luck, America.

Thanks, but we'll be fine.  Good luck to you and atbvania. 
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« Reply #431 on: November 06, 2012, 03:59:01 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on November 05, 2012, 07:52:03 AM

Not sure if this is the right place but here goes - What are you criteria's for voting when the time comes?

Is it whats best for you personally? For the country in the short term? Foreign relations?

I'm a long-term thinker, which is kind of weird given that I'm nearing the end of my lifespan and don't have kids. I've just always been more interested in the grand sweep of history than in the little ups and downs that preoccupy politicians.

First, I prefer a logical, scientifically-literate, educated/intelligent candidate. Secondary criterion is populism; that is, championing (rhetorically, at least) the little guy over big business and the rich, and advocating personal rights. Third is big-picture international issues like global warming and the clash of civilizations. Tax and economic policy only interest me inasmuch as they affect the previous topics. Now that I'm within 10 years of retirement age, social security and medicare are the main focus of what's best for me personally...but I also support them as the foundation of a humane society. As FDR said, "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much, it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."

I shun anti-intellectual, religious, scientifically illiterate, warmongering, money-oriented, moralistic, social Darwinist types. Their version of reality does not intersect with mine at all and they must be opposed at every turn.

If Obama didn't already have a 32-point lead in my state I would support him simply to block Romney. But since Romney has no prayer of winning his home state, Green Party candidate Jill Stein gets my vote tomorrow.  

For Congress, take everything that went before and also consider which candidate would bring home the most pork, because that's what Congress does. Scott Brown has a good seat at the military trough where all the easy money is, but Elizabeth Warren would increase the amount of pork to go around for everyone, so they more or less cancel each other out as far as the money spigot goes. Warren is more worthy of Ted Kennedy's old seat.  
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« Reply #432 on: November 06, 2012, 08:02:46 PM »

Useful and interesting for today:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/11/02/us/politics/paths-to-the-white-house.html
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« Reply #433 on: November 06, 2012, 08:13:38 PM »

Thanks for the link Gellar, interesting indeed:)
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« Reply #434 on: November 07, 2012, 01:58:43 AM »

Quote from: Scraper on November 02, 2012, 03:26:44 PM

Quote from: hepcat on November 02, 2012, 02:52:41 PM



That being said, I also have to agree with Eel Snave when it comes to pretty girls.  I agree that I am the prettiest, of course.  But I've always believed Scraper's avatar is intended to throw people off and that he's almost as pretty as I am.  I'm also convinced that Purge and Ceekay are acid burn victims, that Razgon actually lives in Peoria and NOT Denmark, and that Issie is hiding in the crawlspace of my apartment most of the time.

I think I'm going to take that as a complement.

icon_lol

You are the milk to his cookies....
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« Reply #435 on: November 07, 2012, 04:17:04 AM »

That was an ass kicking.
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« Reply #436 on: November 07, 2012, 04:22:20 AM »

FORWARD!!!

That is all.
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« Reply #437 on: November 07, 2012, 05:40:31 AM »

Quote from: gellar on November 07, 2012, 04:17:04 AM

That was an ass kicking.

I wouldn't call Obama being the first president to win reelection with a smaller number of electoral votes than he earned the first time to an "ass kicking".
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Caine
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« Reply #438 on: November 07, 2012, 05:49:29 AM »

I'd hazard a guess and say he means the gap between R and D:  203 to 303. 
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"It's like chess with big guns against aliens. Which isn't like chess at all when I think about it." - Jake Solomon
Blackjack
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« Reply #439 on: November 07, 2012, 05:53:16 AM »

Just happy to go back to watching and listening to advertisements for all sorts of crap none of us really needs (instead of campaign ads accusing the other candidate of being the Anti-Christ), and filling my paper recycling bag with junk mail for all sorts of crap (rather than endless campaign mailings accusing the other candidate of being the Anti-Christ). Thank God that's over....  icon_razz

I think political debates used to very meaningful, and candidates would take stances on tough issues. Now? It's just preening and strutting and name calling and trying desperately not to talk about any issues that are controversial or painful because oh goodness, don't talk about something that might cost you a few voters. So what's the point?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 05:55:57 AM by Blackjack » Logged

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