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Author Topic: Ted Cruz: The Alienator  (Read 1719 times)
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hepcat
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« on: February 14, 2014, 05:38:55 PM »

I'm not quite sure what he thinks he's achieving.  I suspect he believes the Tea Party is stronger than it really is (an assertion that remains to be proven, though) and that by playing to even their most outlandish fears, he can ride their support up the ladder.  But I think he's in for a rude awakening.  The WSJ ran an editorial yesterday that closed with the description of Cruz's style of politicking as the "rump kamikaze caucus."

And today he's announced a renewed attempt for DOMA.  

On a closing note, it's completely unfair of me and totally biased, but Cruz just has a face that makes me distrust him.  There's something inherently smarmy about the guy, imho.  There's a reason that the release of season 2 of House of Cards on Netflix made me think of Cruz immediately.
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 06:43:05 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on February 14, 2014, 05:38:55 PM

And today he's announced a renewed attempt for DOMA.  

Oh goodie...Mike Lee is involved too.  My ongoing question every time this comes up:  Why the fuck does it matter so much to you?
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 06:50:20 PM »

I honestly don't think folks like Cruz are even backing this crap on the basis of a moral stance anymore.  I truly believe it's become purely a political point.  It's a way to display defiance against all things Obama and thus help you to stand out from the crowd for all those nut cases out there who almost believe Obama is the anti christ.
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2014, 08:41:46 PM »

Somebody's got to define the fringe. There's money and notoriety in staking it out.
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2014, 09:27:00 PM »

When you get to the point where you're aggravating the Powers That Be in your own party, you might not be long for this world.

Quote
By forcing the Senate to round up 60 votes to end debate and force a final vote on a clean increase of the debt ceiling, Cruz knowingly complicated things for the top two Republicans in the chamber -- Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) and Senate Minority Whip John Cornyn (Texas). Both men face primary challenges from their ideological right and neither relished the idea of helping break a filibuster for a debt ceiling increase with no Republican proposals attached.
...
There is nothing that politicians -- and especially Senators -- hate more than being forced into a politically uncomfortable vote by a colleague of the same party. McConnell and Cornyn, both of whom are favorites to win their primaries, will never forget Cruz's move this past week.  And, Cruz is plenty smart enough to realize that.

Cruz, ultimately, wants to be president. And, he may well seize his high profile and his status as a hero among the tea party to run in 2016. (If he runs, he is either in or very close to the top tier of candidates.)  If Cruz doesn't win (or doesn't run), he won't be up for re-election until 2018.  He may well run for a second term but if he decides at some point between now and then -- or even after he is re-elected -- to go the Jim DeMint route and simply walk away from the Senate, don't be surprised.

Cruz won't be climbing the leadership ladder. Ever.
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2014, 10:20:24 PM »

Ted Cruz was one of the highest profile supporters of forcing the 2013 government shutdown.  He called for it multiple times in writing, on television, and on the senate floor as far back as July.  Cruz famously lobbied the House of Representatives to pass an appropriations bill that stripped all funding for the ACA, then attempted to rally his colleagues in the Senate to filibuster that very bill.  His rationale was that the Affordable Care Act was too expensive and would hurt the economy by "creating uncertainty" in the free market.

Standard & Poors later estimated the government shutdown cost the economy $24 billion.  Now Ted Cruz claims the government shutdown was caused by the Democrats and he would never have supported such a thing.


Quote from: hepcat on February 14, 2014, 06:50:20 PM

I honestly don't think folks like Cruz are even backing this crap on the basis of a moral stance anymore.  I truly believe it's become purely a political point.  It's a way to display defiance against all things Obama and thus help you to stand out from the crowd for all those nut cases out there who almost believe Obama is the anti christ.


I think you're right.

You'd think these sorts of willfully destructive antics would hurt the Republican party but remember: it's actually pretty likely they're going to win control of the senate this November.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2014, 11:26:32 PM »

As far as Democrats are concerned, Ted Cruz is the gift that keeps on giving. Like Bachman and Palin, he's got unshakable support among the red-meat base while scaring everybody else, including mainstream Republicans. I'm sure there is nothing that Clinton or Biden would like better than to face off against Cruz in 2016.

I don't think there's a chance that will happen. Party leaders appear to have the upper hand over the teabaggers, at least for the time being, and they have to keep it that way if they're going to take the Senate in November. All bets are off, though, if they manage to keep the extremists at bay yet fail to capture the Senate. 
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Mystic95Z
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 02:42:36 PM »

Also gotta love the retards stupid people that voted that clown into office....  @#$(*&%
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 12:07:12 PM by Mystic95Z » Logged
brettmcd
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2014, 03:08:45 PM »

Quote from: Mystic95Z on February 16, 2014, 02:42:36 PM

Also gotta love the retards that voted that clown into office....  @#$(*&%

It would be nice if you did not use such a hateful and disgusting term in your response there.
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Gratch
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2014, 04:32:51 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on February 16, 2014, 03:08:45 PM

Quote from: Mystic95Z on February 16, 2014, 02:42:36 PM

Also gotta love the retards that voted that clown into office....  @#$(*&%

It would be nice if you did not use such a hateful and disgusting term in your response there.

For once, I completely agree with brettmcd 100%.   thumbsup

Spread the word to end the word
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Lee
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2014, 06:51:51 PM »

Meh, it's a word, it only has as much meaning as you let it.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2014, 11:31:36 PM »

Quote from: Lee on February 16, 2014, 06:51:51 PM

Meh, it's a word, it only has as much meaning as you let it.

That can be said about any insulting word or description of any race, sexual orientation.....      So why even go down that path?
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Lee
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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2014, 01:58:38 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on February 16, 2014, 11:31:36 PM

Quote from: Lee on February 16, 2014, 06:51:51 PM

Meh, it's a word, it only has as much meaning as you let it.

That can be said about any insulting word or description of any race, sexual orientation.....      So why even go down that path?

Because it's not like he used a term that goes back to hundreds of years of a beaten down race (and even then, why let a word get to you?). You can insult my race, religion, or whatever you want, unless you know me, meh, feel free. Lot bigger things out there to be upset about.

Think less of the person who uses the term, but let's not be overly dramatic about it.
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Gratch
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2014, 05:18:14 AM »

I wasn't passing any judgement on Mystic95Z, and only made mention of it only to raise awareness.  "Retard" and "retarded" are very derogatory terms that get used far more often than others simply because there is no racial connotation, and are therefore more "acceptable".  I know lots of folks who never even considered it an insulting word until it was mentioned to them that perhaps they should find a different term.

Having a mother who has taught special education for nearly 50 years has made me acutely aware of how powerful (and hurtful) that term can be to those who either have developmental disabilities, or to the family members of those who do.  I know that we (the collective GT "we") are better than that.
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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2014, 10:31:39 AM »

Yea, unlike many of the other disgusting terms that violate the PC crowd you don't hear them using it to refer to each other and is a group of people not in a position to really defend themselves, therefore we REALLY should. No reason to attack each other for using it but I applaud the use of it being called out as not cool.

The word has a number of correct uses but referring to ANY person is not one of them. There are plenty of other terms that get the point across just as well without demeaning a group of people who don't deserve it.
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Mystic95Z
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2014, 12:13:37 PM »

Edited and replaced with stupid, or is that to harsh for you guys too???
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2014, 01:06:07 PM »

Just a couple years ago, I used the word "Polack" in conversation.  My friends were taken aback, and I learned for the first time how derogatory the word is.  I'd thought it was simply the Polish version of "American" or "Russian."  Explaining the honest mistake and apologizing seemed to clear things right up.

It's easy to hear a word but miss out on its specific connotations.  I think the key is to acknowledge a faux pas when it occurs and try to learn from the experience.  From everything I've seen, the alternative approach of complaining about Politically Correct censorship and making a big sarcastic show out of "apologizing" to "anyone who might have been offended" rarely works out well.

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brettmcd
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2014, 02:24:14 PM »

Quote from: Mystic95Z on February 17, 2014, 12:13:37 PM

Edited and replaced with stupid, or is that to harsh for you guys too???

Nice job keeping it there for anyone to see and the passive aggressive 'apology' for using the word in the first place.
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2014, 04:10:25 PM »

Quote from: Mystic95Z on February 17, 2014, 12:13:37 PM

Edited and replaced with stupid, or is that to harsh for you guys too???

Just as we would call out a racial epithet as inappropriate, we will point out your comment as the same.  "Harsh" has absolutely nothing to do with it. 

Sorry if that irritates you.
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2014, 06:21:27 PM »

Quote from: Mystic95Z on February 17, 2014, 12:13:37 PM

Edited and replaced with stupid, or is that to harsh for you guys too???

Nothing personal dude, you can be as harsh as you want. Just better to keep it harsh with the person(s) intended without being harsh on people that have nothing to do with it.
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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2014, 09:27:54 PM »

Back on track - I had a very heated discussion with my Tea Party father-in-law the other day about some of the crazy stuff that comes out of Cruz's facehole.  Whether or not he's appealing directly to the Tea Party or not, they are certainly identifying with him.

I do have to go back to the point that Gratch made early on though - why do people care so much?  Let everyone be married and miserable like the rest of us.   
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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2014, 09:44:04 PM »

On this particular issue I think it is important to note when Cruz was trying to fight the CR he was told by his cohorts to not fight it and they would join him in the fight come debt ceiling time. Lesson being when you use lies and deception to persuade a child to do something don't be surprised when he throws a childish tantrum when you fail to honor your promises that you never intended to honor. McConnell and Cornyn may not like what the monster does but they would be wise to realize they are key in motivating its behavior towrd them.

Perfect example of why our political process is broken with little hopes of real compromises ever getting traction. Everyone pretty much knows that compromise is synonymous with capitulation.
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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2014, 10:24:49 PM »

Quote from: Rip on February 17, 2014, 09:44:04 PM

Perfect example of why our political process is broken with little hopes of real compromises ever getting traction. Everyone pretty much knows that compromise is synonymous with capitulation.

This is where you and I differ on an extreme level- I feel like the political process SHOULD BE about compromise- give and take- not this ideological game of chicken that we've been seeing in recent years. When the political process prevents our elected officials from governing and making shit happen, then it's broken.
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2014, 11:17:58 PM »

Quote from: Rip on February 17, 2014, 09:44:04 PM

On this particular issue I think it is important to note when Cruz was trying to fight the CR he was told by his cohorts to not fight it and they would join him in the fight come debt ceiling time.


When are you talking about?  In October 2013, Ted Cruz conspired with House Republicans to fight the CR to the point that it triggered a shutdown of the federal government.  It cost the economy $24 billion, and when it was finally done, he lamented it hadn't lasted longer and caused even more damage.  Look, it's right here:

Quote from: Politico.com
“In particular, we saw real division among Senate Republicans,” Cruz told reporters on Wednesday. “That was unfortunate. I would point out that had Senate Republicans united and supported House Republicans, the outcome of this I believe would’ve been very, very different.”

Indeed, the senator and potential 2016 presidential contender’s crusade has riven the GOP, helped instigate the first federal government shutdown in 17 years and overshadowed Obamacare’s bumpy rollout that began Oct. 1. The GOP took a hammering in public polls — Gallup said Oct. 9 the Republican Party’s favorability rating collapsed to an all-time low of 28 percent.


And that "debt ceiling fight" you mention above?  That's the part where Republicans were plotting to threaten a default on the nation's debt, annihilating the value of the American dollar in the process, and were going to roll out a list of demands they wanted as ransom.  Again.  Previously, making these threats wound up lowering United States' credit rating for the first time in history.

Tea Partiers claim they hate President Obama because he's a foreign-born anti-American blowhard planning to divide and weaken the country through destructive policies cloaked in the language of patriotism.  How fantastically ironic that they've chosen to rally behind Ted Cruz: a man who's political career has been entirely dedicated to finding ways to harm the economy and then blaming Democrats for failing to stop him.


Quote from: Rip on February 17, 2014, 09:44:04 PM

Perfect example of why our political process is broken with little hopes of real compromises ever getting traction. Everyone pretty much knows that compromise is synonymous with capitulation.


Please define "pretty much everyone."

Quote from: The Washington Post
As lawmakers head into the thick of high-stakes showdowns over the budget, Obamacare, and the nation's borrowing limit, this much is clear: (1) Compromise is not a dirty word in the eyes of the American people, and (2) Democrats have a bigger appetite for leaders to compromise than do Republicans.

That's all according to a new Gallup poll released Monday that shows that, by about a 2-1 margin, Americans say it is more important for political leaders in Washington to compromise to get things done than it is for them to stick to their beliefs, even if little gets accomplished.

A look at the breakdown by political party reveals that Democrats are more enthusiastic about the prospect of compromise compared with Republicans. More than six in 10 Democrats say it is more important to compromise, while just 38 percent of Republicans say the same thing. What's more, nearly as many GOPers (36 percent) say it is more important for leaders to stick to their beliefs.




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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2014, 11:48:16 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 17, 2014, 10:24:49 PM

Quote from: Rip on February 17, 2014, 09:44:04 PM

Perfect example of why our political process is broken with little hopes of real compromises ever getting traction. Everyone pretty much knows that compromise is synonymous with capitulation.

This is where you and I differ on an extreme level- I feel like the political process SHOULD BE about compromise- give and take- not this ideological game of chicken that we've been seeing in recent years. When the political process prevents our elected officials from governing and making shit happen, then it's broken.

Oh, I agree it should be but never is because honoring the compromise is the exception rather than the rule, and it seems after the fact no one is all that mad that the compromise was a lie. Look no further than sequester or Syria's giving up chemical weapons to see how uncompromising the reality of compromise is.
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« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2014, 11:48:29 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 17, 2014, 10:24:49 PM

Quote from: Rip on February 17, 2014, 09:44:04 PM

Perfect example of why our political process is broken with little hopes of real compromises ever getting traction. Everyone pretty much knows that compromise is synonymous with capitulation.

This is where you and I differ on an extreme level- I feel like the political process SHOULD BE about compromise- give and take- not this ideological game of chicken that we've been seeing in recent years. When the political process prevents our elected officials from governing and making shit happen, then it's broken.

I would go so far as to say that our founding fathers felt compromise was an essential part of any good political process.
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« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2014, 12:01:26 AM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on February 17, 2014, 11:17:58 PM

Quote from: Rip on February 17, 2014, 09:44:04 PM

On this particular issue I think it is important to note when Cruz was trying to fight the CR he was told by his cohorts to not fight it and they would join him in the fight come debt ceiling time.


When are you talking about?  In October 2013, Ted Cruz conspired with House Republicans to fight the CR to the point that it triggered a shutdown of the federal government.  It cost the economy $24 billion, and when it was finally done, he lamented it hadn't lasted longer and caused even more damage.  Look, it's right here:

Quote from: Politico.com
“In particular, we saw real division among Senate Republicans,” Cruz told reporters on Wednesday. “That was unfortunate. I would point out that had Senate Republicans united and supported House Republicans, the outcome of this I believe would’ve been very, very different.”

Indeed, the senator and potential 2016 presidential contender’s crusade has riven the GOP, helped instigate the first federal government shutdown in 17 years and overshadowed Obamacare’s bumpy rollout that began Oct. 1. The GOP took a hammering in public polls — Gallup said Oct. 9 the Republican Party’s favorability rating collapsed to an all-time low of 28 percent.


And that "debt ceiling fight" you mention above?  That's the part where Republicans were plotting to threaten a default on the nation's debt, annihilating the value of the American dollar in the process, and were going to roll out a list of demands they wanted as ransom.  Again.  Previously, making these threats wound up lowering United States' credit rating for the first time in history.

Tea Partiers claim they hate President Obama because he's a foreign-born anti-American blowhard planning to divide and weaken the country through destructive policies cloaked in the language of patriotism.  How fantastically ironic that they've chosen to rally behind Ted Cruz: a man who's political career has been entirely dedicated to finding ways to harm the economy and then blaming Democrats for failing to stop him.


Quote from: Rip on February 17, 2014, 09:44:04 PM

Perfect example of why our political process is broken with little hopes of real compromises ever getting traction. Everyone pretty much knows that compromise is synonymous with capitulation.


Please define "pretty much everyone."

Quote from: The Washington Post
As lawmakers head into the thick of high-stakes showdowns over the budget, Obamacare, and the nation's borrowing limit, this much is clear: (1) Compromise is not a dirty word in the eyes of the American people, and (2) Democrats have a bigger appetite for leaders to compromise than do Republicans.

That's all according to a new Gallup poll released Monday that shows that, by about a 2-1 margin, Americans say it is more important for political leaders in Washington to compromise to get things done than it is for them to stick to their beliefs, even if little gets accomplished.

A look at the breakdown by political party reveals that Democrats are more enthusiastic about the prospect of compromise compared with Republicans. More than six in 10 Democrats say it is more important to compromise, while just 38 percent of Republicans say the same thing. What's more, nearly as many GOPers (36 percent) say it is more important for leaders to stick to their beliefs.




-Autistic Angel

Quote
Cruz then pointed out that he had his staff print 3 pages of Republican Senators saying several months ago that they would fight for the debt ceiling, that this would be the place where they’d take a stand. And of course they didn’t. But he said it’s as if they think their constituents are a bunch of rubes that won’t remember what they say.

http://therightscoop.com/ted-cruz-explains-on-mark-levin-show-why-he-filibustered-the-debt-ceiling-vote/

Are you suggesting they didn't say this when trying to get the CR rolling?

« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 12:04:22 AM by Rip » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2014, 01:20:34 AM »

Quote from: Rip on February 18, 2014, 12:01:26 AM

http://therightscoop.com/ted-cruz-explains-on-mark-levin-show-why-he-filibustered-the-debt-ceiling-vote/

Are you suggesting they didn't say this when trying to get the CR rolling?


No matter what Ted Cruz claims he was promised in exchange for not opposing the CR, he emphatically opposed the CR at every turn.  Cruz publicly rallied House members to shutdown the government before it happened; he cheered the shutdown on while it was costing us a billion dollars a day; he voted against the CR when it came up in the Senate; and he immediately gave a press conference to lament the fact that the shutdown hadn't lasted longer.

If I promise to give you a puppy if you stop siphoning my gasoline and respond by punching a hole in my gas tank and draining the contents into a bucket until the police drag you away, I do not owe you a puppy.

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« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2014, 01:24:12 AM »

Violence and puppies do not belong in the same post.
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« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2014, 03:20:54 AM »

Well the fact is many Republicans have repeatedly pandered to there constituents and said we will fight tooth and nail to force budget cuts by blocking CR/debt ceiling increases and then they don't, by not forcing a 60 vote cloture. So basically they lie and then blame that lie on someone else. What they are mad about is that he forces the hand of those that aren't willing to do it and outs the lies. I'm fine with them letting it pass but don't campaign on how you won't allow it, have some balls. Like or dislike what Cruz says (and I don't like much of it) at least he does what he says he will.

So basically they are mad for exposing the truth to the people that vote for them. If the voters want that then it shouldn't be a problem, nothing to be mad about. If they feel that they should allow the Democrats to spend as much as they want if they have 51 votes all they need to do is stand up and own up to it, no reason to be mad about it.

Of course I suspect it will cost many there seats to people that won't allow that. I say tough titties. If the truth of what you want costs you you job then that is the will of the people, so be it.

Just like Landrieu will loose her seat over Obamacare, she tries to spin it as though she is somehow not responsible for it, when you are forced to vote your stand it allows the people to vote based on theirs as it should be.

No reason these guys should be allowed to campaign as doing anything they can to force budget cuts and then fail to do it. They obviously understand what their voters want because they campaign on it, I have no sympathy for them when they fail to do what they promised they would. I say good riddance, maybe the next guy will vote as he promises....for a change.

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« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2014, 03:27:25 PM »

Quote from: Rip on February 18, 2014, 03:20:54 AM

So basically they are mad for exposing the truth to the people that vote for them. If the voters want that then it shouldn't be a problem, nothing to be mad about. If they feel that they should allow the Democrats to spend as much as they want if they have 51 votes all they need to do is stand up and own up to it, no reason to be mad about it.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but raising the debt ceiling is akin to promising one will pay the credit card bill when it comes due. The racking up of charges itself is done in the approval of the budget, the most recent example of which seems to have passed with both the Republicans and Democrats blessing (at least in the House):

"the budget plan easily passed the House on a 332-94 vote, with solid majorities of both parties supporting it."

So it seems to me the Republicans are also to blame for racking up the credit card bill. They're just mad that they have to pay it when it comes due.
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« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2014, 08:35:28 PM »

Quote from: Rip on February 18, 2014, 03:20:54 AM

Well the fact is many Republicans have repeatedly pandered to there constituents and said we will fight tooth and nail to force budget cuts by blocking CR/debt ceiling increases and then they don't, by not forcing a 60 vote cloture. So basically they lie and then blame that lie on someone else.


Blocking the CR forces the government to shut down again, causing billions of dollars in damage to the U.S. economy.  Preventing an increase to the debt ceiling means defaulting on the national debt and, as far as anyone can predict, a collapse of the American monetary system.

Why should the Republican party need to be paid off every few months in exchange for not inflicting deliberate damage to the country?

-Autistic Angel
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brettmcd
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« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2014, 10:19:23 PM »

I agree the debt ceiling vote should be something that is automatic, but the CRs?     Hell no, we need to cut spending at the federal level and the votes to actually spend the money is where those fights need to be made.
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Alefroth
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« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2014, 04:40:52 PM »

Quote from: Mystic95Z on February 17, 2014, 12:13:37 PM

Edited and replaced with stupid, or is that to harsh for you guys too???

Edit: I had told Mystic to grow up, but decided that was uncool.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 04:42:33 PM by Alefroth » Logged
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