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Author Topic: South Korea and American Beef  (Read 3007 times)
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cheeba
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« on: June 02, 2008, 11:09:03 AM »

Over the weekend, nearly 40,000 South Koreans rallied to protest a decision by the S Korean government to resume American beef imports.

Story here.

The reason beef imports were stopped? Over 4 years ago there was a single cow in Washington state (born in Canada, of course) that had Mad Cow disease.

And the protests worked. The S Korean government has delayed American beef imports.

I can understand the South Korean beef industry using scare tactics and rallying public support against beef imports, but this is absolutely ridiculous. This is 1 cow in 2003! There's something seriously wrong with South Korea media or education if there is such irrational, widespread paranoia. This craziness is costing Americans money, and should be dealt with in kind. Tariffs should be slapped on Hyundais and Kias or any other important South Korean import until they stop acting like North Korea.
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Alefroth
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2008, 03:10:58 PM »

I think it's as much resistance to a pro-American president they aren't fond of as it is about tainted beef.

Naturally, there must be something seriously wrong.  Roll Eyes

Ale
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 03:13:17 PM by Alefroth » Logged
Trappin
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 03:49:14 PM »

The rally numbers are probably inflated and like Ale said - more of a protest against Bush than any real fear of mad cow tainted beef.

PS: Korean food and especially the BBQ is OMG good.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 04:54:51 PM »

Bush asks court to block wider testing for mad cow. I'm sure there's a connection.
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cheeba
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2008, 07:10:49 PM »

Quote from: Trappin on June 02, 2008, 03:49:14 PM

The rally numbers are probably inflated and like Ale said - more of a protest against Bush than any real fear of mad cow tainted beef.
That's cool with me if they want to protest against Bush. But if they want to cost Americans money to do so, then they can go ahead and lose money on Kias and Hyundais out of fairness.
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PS: Korean food and especially the BBQ is OMG good.
Agreed smile.
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CSL
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 09:13:14 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 02, 2008, 11:09:03 AM

I can understand the South Korean beef industry using scare tactics and rallying public support against beef imports, but this is absolutely ridiculous. This is 1 cow in 2003! There's something seriously wrong with South Korea media or education if there is such irrational, widespread paranoia. This craziness is costing Americans money, and should be dealt with in kind. Tariffs should be slapped on Hyundais and Kias or any other important South Korean import until they stop acting like North Korea.

Huh - replace South Korea with America and United States with Canada and you have the situation we were in a few years ago.

Though I hardly think Americans have a right to be pushy when it comes to matters of agricultural import or export.
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cheeba
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2008, 09:44:22 PM »

Quote from: CSL on June 02, 2008, 09:13:14 PM

Huh - replace South Korea with America and United States with Canada and you have the situation we were in a few years ago.
Are you talking the mad cow situation? Or the whole lumber thing? If it's mad cow, then there's a pretty big difference, considering that since 2003 there have been 8 cases of mad cow from Canada. And of course the 1 case of mad cow in America comes from a Canadian cow.
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Though I hardly think Americans have a right to be pushy when it comes to matters of agricultural import or export.
Why not?
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2008, 11:01:17 PM »

Cheeba, where are you getting the number 1 for cases of mad cow in the USA? That article I linked mentioned 3 since 2003.
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cheeba
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2008, 11:08:37 PM »

Shit, sorry I meant to link it. It was the CBC. Lemme look it up again...

Here we go.
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In August 2006, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, the federal regulator responsible for monitoring the safety of Canadian cattle, confirmed a case of mad cow disease in an older cow in Alberta. It was the fifth case in 2006 and the eighth since 2003.
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cheeba
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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2008, 11:11:27 PM »

Ah, it's a mix up of Canada and the US, I should have been more clear.

In the US there have been 3 cases since 2003. (Though I had read something yesterday that said 1 case).
In Canada there have been 8 cases. At least one of the cows in the US with mad cow was from Canada.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2008, 11:11:47 PM »

Another reason to be wary of US beef. If I ate meat, I certainly wouldn't want to eat an animal too sick to stand on it's own.
In fact, the Humane Society chose a slaughter house at random and brought out these images of cows too sick or injured to stand. The USDA inspectors apparently follow predictable patterns, and workers struggle to get the cows walking BEFORE the inspector sees what's happening.

Add to that the feeding of beef to cows, and you have some bizarro ideas of how to keep animals from catching diseases.

Wikipedia on Creutzdeldt-Jakob disease, which seems commonly linked to eating brains and spinal chords.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 11:14:56 PM by Eduardo X » Logged

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CSL
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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2008, 04:28:15 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 02, 2008, 09:44:22 PM

If it's mad cow, then there's a pretty big difference, considering that since 2003 there have been 8 cases of mad cow from Canada. And of course the 1 case of mad cow in America comes from a Canadian cow.

I was more going for the free-trade angle in which Montana lobby groups kept the border closed long after our cattle supplies were deemed safe - you know the whole fact that we have NAFTA seems kind of worthless when those and softwood lumber happen.
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Trappin
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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2008, 05:39:52 AM »

chose a slaughter house at random and brought out these images of cows too sick or injured to stand.


3D meat - diseased, disfigured and deformed(?)

Presently, jerky-type pet treats are manufactured by grinding frozen 3D beef and beef lungs and combining the ground product with a small quantity of fat and a small quantity of wheat (approximately 10%), a flavoring blend of spices and artificial smoke flavor. The amount of fat added is typically adjusted according to the fat content of the 3D beef and beef lungs (typically about 8%). The mixture which results is then forced through a forming dye typically by "V-Mag" type of pump. The shaped product is then cut to a predetermined length and placed on cooking racks which are constructed of expanded metal trays. The formed blend, which contains approximately 62% moisture is then "cooked" in a convection type low temperature oven for approximately four hours. Although this process results in a suitable finished product, the yield from this process is only approximately 45%.


Years ago an AG buddy told me 3D meat was auctioned to fast food chains. No idea if that was true or not.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 05:42:58 AM by Trappin » Logged
Dan_Theman
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« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2008, 10:53:36 AM »

Just to clarify for those who don't know:
The letters indicate how old the cow is.

A: 9 - 30 months
B: 30 - 42 months
C: 42 - 72 months
D: 72 - 96 months
E: > 96 months

The basic idea is that older meat is supposedly tougher and less tasty.  It's not like grade D & E are somehow "unfit" for human consumption ... of course, then again this message is being brougt to you by a vegetarian, so I'm of the mind that ALL beef is unfit, but that decision's up to you guys  icon_wink
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cheeba
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« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2008, 12:37:29 PM »

Why would a beef cow ever get to 5+ years old, anyways? I think I saw that one of the Mad Cows in America was like 13 years old. Will have to check on that though.
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Eightball
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« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2008, 01:23:23 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 02, 2008, 11:11:47 PM

Wikipedia on Creutzdeldt-Jakob disease, which seems commonly linked to eating brains and spinal chords.

Not sure why you linked that, Ed.

CJD is a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy.  It's (basically) the human-variant of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE).  Otherwise known as Mad Cow Disease.

The disease results from prion infection; infectious proteins.  No big surprise that if you eat the organs where the prions infect (i.e., the brain), you're going to get sick...
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2008, 02:15:01 PM »

Quote from: Eightball on June 03, 2008, 01:23:23 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 02, 2008, 11:11:47 PM

Wikipedia on Creutzdeldt-Jakob disease, which seems commonly linked to eating brains and spinal chords.

Not sure why you linked that, Ed.

CJD is a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy.  It's (basically) the human-variant of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE).  Otherwise known as Mad Cow Disease.

The disease results from prion infection; infectious proteins.  No big surprise that if you eat the organs where the prions infect (i.e., the brain), you're going to get sick...
Like you said, it's the human form. But what we humans do to cows is feed them other cows brains and spinal chords as cheep feed.
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Eightball
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« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2008, 03:59:24 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 03, 2008, 02:15:01 PM

Quote from: Eightball on June 03, 2008, 01:23:23 PM

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 02, 2008, 11:11:47 PM

Wikipedia on Creutzdeldt-Jakob disease, which seems commonly linked to eating brains and spinal chords.

Not sure why you linked that, Ed.

CJD is a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy.  It's (basically) the human-variant of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE).  Otherwise known as Mad Cow Disease.

The disease results from prion infection; infectious proteins.  No big surprise that if you eat the organs where the prions infect (i.e., the brain), you're going to get sick...
Like you said, it's the human form. But what we humans do to cows is feed them other cows brains and spinal chords as cheep feed.

And USDA in 2003 banned all bovine CNS tissue from the human food supply.  As the prions reside in the CNS tissue, there's no way for humans to get infected.  The only case in the US where a human got infected with vCJD is from someone who apparently got infected from a trip to England.

It's working.  But man, the thought that the following was once in our food supply:

Quote
Specified Risk Material - FSIS declared that skull, brain, trigeminal ganglia, eyes, vertebral column, spinal cord and dorsal root ganglia of cattle 30 months of age or older and the small intestine of all cattle are specified risk materials that are prohibited in the human food supply. Tonsils from all cattle are also not allowed in the human food supply.

Is gross.

Also, as a practical matter, to avoid having to undergo extra regulatory scrutiny and the possibility of massive recalls (the last meat recall for a meat-packing plant...forced it close down permanently), breeders no longer really feed their cows the mashed up yuck-stuff.  It's just not worth it in a cost-benefit analysis.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 04:02:43 PM by Eightball » Logged
Eduardo X
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« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2008, 04:13:49 PM »

Eight, as you point out, the USDA JUST banned that stuff for human consumption, but not for animal consumption. It's probably in dog food and at times, in cow feed. I'm interested to hear more about breeders no longer feeding their cows beef "by-products." Where'd you hear about that?

All of this reminds me why I don't eat meat. What a fucking mess.
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Enough
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« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2008, 05:29:40 PM »

The Asian market is very, very picky about the beef they import and always have been.  They take food safety very seriously when it comes to beef, it's not S. Korean protectionism born from their cattle industry much at all cheeba, it's a cultural thing. 

In terms of CNS Eightball, do you eat T-bone steak?  If so you are being exposed to dorsal root ganglia.  It's the potential for exposure here that has led (if memory serves) Japan to not import t-bones anymore.  And living in big-time cattle country most of my life I can assure you that byproducts are still heavily used for feed, heck sometimes it's better feed than the cornflakes feedlots typically use and proteins are definitely still used in cattle finishing.  Certainly many byproducts are not from meat, but with corn rations increasing in price about 50%/year for cattlemen they are looking for other foodstuffs to fatten the cows.  Coors mash byproduct is one used around here, and distiller's grains are gaining in favor to replace some of that corn nationwide.  But blood and animal waste among many others are still fed to cattle, here's the Union of Concerned Scientists on this (be sure to see the linked sources at the bottom).
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Trappin
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« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2008, 01:25:20 AM »

Coors mash byproduct is one used around here, and distiller's grains are gaining in favor to replace some of that corn nationwide.

Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. sells its barley mash waste to a local feed lot.
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Two Sheds
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« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2008, 05:07:14 PM »

That UCS link is . . . gross.

I don't eat a LOT of meat, but I just can't cut it out entirely. It is too delicious. And don't tell me I wouldn't miss it. Still, short of that, I'm glad I shop at Whole Foods.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2008, 06:21:57 PM »

Quote from: Eightball
And USDA in 2003 banned all bovine CNS tissue from the human food supply.  As the prions reside in the CNS tissue, there's no way for humans to get infected.  The only case in the US where a human got infected with vCJD is from someone who apparently got infected from a trip to England.

It's working.

CJD can have an incubation period of several decades, which means that young people who were exposed prior to 2003 may not become symptomatic for many years to come.

Quote from: The National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke
Some researchers believe an unusual "slow virus" or another organism causes CJD. However, they have never been able to isolate a virus or other organism in people with the disease. Furthermore, the agent that causes CJD has several characteristics that are unusual for known organisms such as viruses and bacteria. It is difficult to kill, it does not appear to contain any genetic information in the form of nucleic acids (DNA or RNA), and it usually has a long incubation period before symptoms appear. In some cases, the incubation period may be as long as 40 years.

CJD also produces symptoms which are remarkably similar to Alzheimer's disease, so unless autopsies are performed on every Alzheimer's patient who slips into a coma and passes away, we aren't thoroughly screening for CJD-related deaths.

Quote from: "The National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke
CJD is characterized by rapidly progressive dementia. Initially, patients experience problems with muscular coordination; personality changes, including impaired memory, judgment, and thinking; and impaired vision. People with the disease also may experience insomnia, depression, or unusual sensations. CJD does not cause a fever or other flu-like symptoms. As the illness progresses, the patientsí mental impairment becomes severe. They often develop involuntary muscle jerks called myoclonus, and they may go blind. They eventually lose the ability to move and speak and enter a coma. Pneumonia and other infections often occur in these patients and can lead to death.

...

Some symptoms of CJD can be similar to symptoms of other progressive neurological disorders, such as Alzheimerís or Huntingtonís disease. However, CJD causes unique changes in brain tissue which can be seen at autopsy. It also tends to cause more rapid deterioration of a personís abilities than Alzheimerís disease or most other types of dementia.

Finally, the current policy of the U.S. government is that any cow infected with BSE will be so seriously incapacitated -- despite the 3-4 year incubation time of the disease -- that they'll be recognized as "downer cows" and never make it into the human food supply.  This argument seems to be undercut by the fact that as recently as February of this year, there was evidence of downer cows being brutally forced back to their feet so they could enter the food supply.

Quote from: The New York Times
The recall was prompted by an undercover videotape shot by the Humane Society of the United States last fall that showed Westland/Hallmark employees using forklifts, water hoses and electric prods to force sickly cows to their feet. Some of those cows ended up in the food supply.

The animals had fallen after passing an initial inspection by government inspectors. Under the downer exemption, a veterinarian could have been called to reinspect the animals and perhaps deem them healthy enough to slaughter. But the exemption apparently encouraged laxity; in some instances at Westland/Hallmark, downer cows were sent to slaughter without the reinspection.

With respect, it really is much too early to declare that our food inspection policies are keeping us safe from this disease.

-Autistic Angel
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Eightball
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« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2008, 01:33:58 AM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 03, 2008, 04:13:49 PM

Eight, as you point out, the USDA JUST banned that stuff for human consumption, but not for animal consumption. It's probably in dog food and at times, in cow feed. I'm interested to hear more about breeders no longer feeding their cows beef "by-products." Where'd you hear about that?

From conversations with fellow associates who work in the Food group of my firm.  Among others, they have cattle breeder clients (well, their clients are usually a conglomerate or lobbying organization).  It's a combination of a fear of liability and a fear of a widespread media scare.

That kind of thing will kill off their industry in no time flat.

Quote from: Autistic Angel
With respect, it really is much too early to declare that our food inspection policies are keeping us safe from this disease.

No, I'm not saying definitively we're safe (and you're right about the downer cows issue...it's sketchy as hell).  But so far, we've only had 1 case of variant CJD in the US, and that was a woman who (most likely) contracted the disease in England.

That effectively means ZERO infections so far in the US (that can be traced back to it).  Practically speaking, it really doesn't get a lot better than that...

And to address your autopsy issue, you're right, they won't do an autopsy in every case.  But variant CJD doesn't just afflict the Alzheimer's target group...so if a 30 year old dies of symptoms similar to a rapidly progressing CNS condition like Alzheimers, they'll do an autopsy.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2008, 03:23:34 AM »

Quote from: Eightball on June 05, 2008, 01:33:58 AM

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 03, 2008, 04:13:49 PM

Eight, as you point out, the USDA JUST banned that stuff for human consumption, but not for animal consumption. It's probably in dog food and at times, in cow feed. I'm interested to hear more about breeders no longer feeding their cows beef "by-products." Where'd you hear about that?

From conversations with fellow associates who work in the Food group of my firm.  Among others, they have cattle breeder clients (well, their clients are usually a conglomerate or lobbying organization).  It's a combination of a fear of liability and a fear of a widespread media scare.

That kind of thing will kill off their industry in no time flat.
I know I personally stopped eating meat due to the Mad Cow stuff, but continued not eating it for the health, environmental, and humanitarian reasons.
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2008, 03:42:17 AM »

Does the fact that SK eat other parts of the cow and not just the meat has anything to do with it? I think they need to be far more careful because infected cow that is safe for US consumption can be bad for them. If SK's cow is somehow infected because of the import, then it'll cause serious health problem. That is more important that worrying about US beef industry losing money because they can't export to SK.
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cheeba
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« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2008, 04:21:36 AM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on June 05, 2008, 03:42:17 AM

That is more important that worrying about US beef industry losing money because they can't export to SK.
I believe that every country that banned US beef after the 2003 scare has re-opened their markets, except South Korea. Japan re-opened to US beef (with provisions, of course) in 2005 - 3 years ago. If it's a cultural thing, that's cool... they can cost the US beef industry money while out of fairness the US adds tariffs to some of the Korean products until their culture gets the hell over it.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2008, 05:43:24 PM »

The US forced Colombia (and Peru and Bolivia) to stop growing wheat so that US farmers could sell their wheat to them. The result? Farmers grew cocaine instead.

Do you want coked up Korean cows flooding the US?
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« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2008, 05:53:19 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 05, 2008, 05:43:24 PM

Do you want coked up Korean cows flooding the US?

That sounds pretty good, actually.  It would give me the protein and energy I need to stay up all night and clean the house, organize the closet, etc.

Coked up beef would make a hell of a steak.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2008, 06:05:26 PM »

I'm going to apply for the copyright. Outback Steakhouse, you've met your match!
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Two Sheds
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« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2008, 07:11:06 PM »

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« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2008, 07:39:44 PM »

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