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Author Topic: Soon we'll be taxed on internet purchases  (Read 1101 times)
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ATB
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« on: May 07, 2013, 01:02:37 PM »

It has bipartisan support in the senate. Hopefully the House kills it. Of course Obama's on board.
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« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2013, 01:15:06 PM »

It's taxes you're supposed to be paying anyway.
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« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2013, 02:14:04 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on May 07, 2013, 01:15:06 PM

It's taxes you're supposed to be paying anyway.

Why?
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2013, 03:22:03 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 07, 2013, 02:14:04 PM

Quote from: Teggy on May 07, 2013, 01:15:06 PM

It's taxes you're supposed to be paying anyway.

Why?

Because we (well, most states) have state sales tax in this country. You are supposed to tally up all your internet sales at the end of the year and pay the taxes. No one does.
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2013, 06:25:44 PM »

Got hit by Amazon this year because they have a warehouse in the city.   I imagined it'll happen eventually, but I'm not nuts about it. 
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2013, 10:21:28 PM »

Professionally, it would be a good thing since my business is comfortably below the $1 million compliance trigger. Remaining tax-free would partially offset my inability to offer free shipping (due to being too small to qualify for bulk rates) and make me more competitive with the big sites.

Personally, I only ever buy clothing and beer, and as necessities those are both tax-exempt. Adding tax to the couple hundred bucks a year that I spend on luxuries online won't make much difference. If more money in the state's budget means lower taxes or more services, then that's a win.

So...on balance, I approve. Go ahead and tax the big spenders.
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2013, 11:32:22 PM »

figure it would happen eventually, but even with sales tax chances are Amazon is going to be cheap enough that I won't start shopping locally.  of course Amazon (who are part of the group pushing for this to pass) could do a great PR move and offer Prime members a discount equal to their local sales tax biggrin
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2013, 12:26:19 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on May 07, 2013, 11:32:22 PM

figure it would happen eventually, but even with sales tax chances are Amazon is going to be cheap enough that I won't start shopping locally.  of course Amazon (who are part of the group pushing for this to pass) could do a great PR move and offer Prime members a discount equal to their local sales tax biggrin
As a Washington state resident, I would love this to be offered here.
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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2013, 03:21:40 PM »

While I love the tax free abandon of the wild, wild internet, it was only a matter of time before they closed that loophole. 

On the one hand, I'll miss saving a few coins when buying on the internet, on the other it does help to even the playing field for brick and mortar stores...primarily small ones. 
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2013, 02:09:44 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on May 08, 2013, 03:21:40 PM

On the one hand, I'll miss saving a few coins when buying on the internet, on the other it does help to even the playing field for brick and mortar stores...primarily small ones. 

Exactly. Where's the outrage for the mom-and-pop stores who offer products that can't be sold on the internet? Why do they have to pay sales taxes while "internet" companies don't?
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2013, 08:20:42 PM »

The mom and pop stores that can sell online will get a competitive advantage here.  As long as they stay below, I believe, $1M per year, they can sell online without having to make any sales tax adjustments. 

One of the other things I like about the bill is that it puts the onus on the states.  They have to contract with a software provider to generate the software, which has to be provided to businesses free of charge.  There are liability limits so that parties not involved in a screw-up can't be held responsible for it.  And the states are at a strictly opt-in model with a 90 or 180 day lead time depending on when they approve the program. 
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2013, 11:04:47 PM »

Advantage to wife being a CPA - she does the taxes
Disadvantage to wife being a CPA - she pays things like state taxes on online purchases (which as noted everyone is theoretically supposed to do, but no one does)

I see no reason not to impose taxes though, as long as it's at enough value to be worth the pain it'll cause smaller online retailers if the threshold is too low
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2013, 07:18:04 AM »

i used to be against the idea back in the 90s/00s, but i've come around to thinking this is now a good law to enact (on several levels, even).
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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2013, 12:55:15 PM »

So we'll give the state govs MORE money to mismanage?
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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2013, 01:49:10 PM »

Quote from: ATB on May 10, 2013, 12:55:15 PM

So we'll give the state govs MORE money to mismanage?

No, you'll give them the money you already owe them so that many can work towards not being woefully underfunded at the moment.
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« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2013, 02:01:14 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on May 10, 2013, 01:49:10 PM

Quote from: ATB on May 10, 2013, 12:55:15 PM

So we'll give the state govs MORE money to mismanage?

No, you'll give them the money you already owe them so that many can work towards not being woefully underfunded at the moment.

Well said.
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« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2013, 02:15:42 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on May 10, 2013, 01:49:10 PM

Quote from: ATB on May 10, 2013, 12:55:15 PM

So we'll give the state govs MORE money to mismanage?

No, you'll give them the money you already owe them so that many can work towards not being woefully underfunded at the moment.

The reason they're "woefully underfunded" is because when times are good they go on a spending spree using every dollar available, committing themselves to long-term obligations as if times will always be good. Then a dip in the economy happens, tax revenues drop and all the sudden they are scrambling to cover the expenses. Giving a spendthrift more money is not a good way to change bad habits.
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« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2013, 02:19:49 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 10, 2013, 02:15:42 PM

Quote from: Teggy on May 10, 2013, 01:49:10 PM

Quote from: ATB on May 10, 2013, 12:55:15 PM

So we'll give the state govs MORE money to mismanage?

No, you'll give them the money you already owe them so that many can work towards not being woefully underfunded at the moment.

The reason they're "woefully underfunded" is because when times are good they go on a spending spree using every dollar available, committing themselves to long-term obligations as if times will always be good. Then a dip in the economy happens, tax revenues drop and all the sudden they are scrambling to cover the expenses. Giving a spendthrift more money is not a good way to change bad habits.

Giving them the money they are owed is what's right. Starving them at the expense of people who need jobs and services is wrong. If you want to affect change in the manner money is spent, handle that as a separate task.
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« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2013, 03:53:18 PM »

I almost forgot Gamestop seems to be doing what I suggested Amazon do, at least for digital downloads.
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« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2013, 04:00:28 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on May 10, 2013, 02:19:49 PM

Quote from: Moliere on May 10, 2013, 02:15:42 PM

Quote from: Teggy on May 10, 2013, 01:49:10 PM

Quote from: ATB on May 10, 2013, 12:55:15 PM

So we'll give the state govs MORE money to mismanage?

No, you'll give them the money you already owe them so that many can work towards not being woefully underfunded at the moment.

The reason they're "woefully underfunded" is because when times are good they go on a spending spree using every dollar available, committing themselves to long-term obligations as if times will always be good. Then a dip in the economy happens, tax revenues drop and all the sudden they are scrambling to cover the expenses. Giving a spendthrift more money is not a good way to change bad habits.

Giving them the money they are owed is what's right. Starving them at the expense of people who need jobs and services is wrong. If you want to affect change in the manner money is spent, handle that as a separate task.

The purpose of taxes is not to provide jobs for government workers. If I am being threatened with bodily harm and imprisonment should I not pay taxes those services better be damn important and only something the government can provide.
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2013, 04:48:00 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 10, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: Teggy on May 10, 2013, 02:19:49 PM

Quote from: Moliere on May 10, 2013, 02:15:42 PM

Quote from: Teggy on May 10, 2013, 01:49:10 PM

Quote from: ATB on May 10, 2013, 12:55:15 PM

So we'll give the state govs MORE money to mismanage?

No, you'll give them the money you already owe them so that many can work towards not being woefully underfunded at the moment.

The reason they're "woefully underfunded" is because when times are good they go on a spending spree using every dollar available, committing themselves to long-term obligations as if times will always be good. Then a dip in the economy happens, tax revenues drop and all the sudden they are scrambling to cover the expenses. Giving a spendthrift more money is not a good way to change bad habits.

Giving them the money they are owed is what's right. Starving them at the expense of people who need jobs and services is wrong. If you want to affect change in the manner money is spent, handle that as a separate task.

The purpose of taxes is not to provide jobs for government workers. If I am being threatened with bodily harm and imprisonment should I not pay taxes those services better be damn important and only something the government can provide.

Sure they are. Taxes are for keeping streets lit and pothole free, parks safe, libraries open with books on the shelf, school curriculums current, etc. and all the people to fill the jobs to make those things happen. If you think that will happen for all citizens without government you're kidding yourself.
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« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2013, 05:23:11 PM »

I agree that there are services (e.g., police and courts) that the government should provide. In consequence, people will be hired to provide those services. That is different than saying my taxes are needed because someone needs a job.
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« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2013, 05:36:22 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 10, 2013, 05:23:11 PM

I agree that there are services (e.g., police and courts) that the government should provide. In consequence, people will be hired to provide those services. That is different than saying my taxes are needed because someone needs a job.

You're playing semantics. If taxes are not paid, services are cut. The result of those cuts are people who should otherwise be employed will lose their jobs.
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« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2013, 10:55:44 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 10, 2013, 02:15:42 PM

Quote from: Teggy on May 10, 2013, 01:49:10 PM

Quote from: ATB on May 10, 2013, 12:55:15 PM

So we'll give the state govs MORE money to mismanage?

No, you'll give them the money you already owe them so that many can work towards not being woefully underfunded at the moment.

The reason they're "woefully underfunded" is because when times are good they go on a spending spree using every dollar available, committing themselves to long-term obligations as if times will always be good. Then a dip in the economy happens, tax revenues drop and all the sudden they are scrambling to cover the expenses. Giving a spendthrift more money is not a good way to change bad habits.

Don't most states have a rainy day fund like MA does? During good times we build it up, during recessions we draw it down. Worked pretty well until the Great Recession drained it dry.
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2013, 08:02:36 PM »

Those controlling the purse strings aren't always willing to use it.
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« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2013, 01:36:30 PM »

If your state has a "use tax" you were supposed to be paying this all along.
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« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2013, 02:21:32 PM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on May 12, 2013, 01:36:30 PM

If your state has a "use tax" you were supposed to be paying this all along.
What do they say? Give to Caesar that which belongs to Caesar?
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« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2013, 04:06:49 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on May 12, 2013, 02:21:32 PM

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on May 12, 2013, 01:36:30 PM

If your state has a "use tax" you were supposed to be paying this all along.
What do they say? Give to Caesar that which belongs to Caesar?
 

why would I give anything to that damn dirty ape?

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« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2013, 04:50:22 PM »

Because it was earth all along.
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« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2013, 01:29:57 AM »

Bottom line is we really should have paid these taxes all along. That's a fact because its the law. Do I like paying more taxes? No!!! That's a whole different topic. This is just closing a loophole, that really should have been done years ago. Simple as that.
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« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2013, 08:20:16 AM »

You just need to have what we have in Canuckistan - a state sales tax (called PST for Provincial Sales Tax) and a federal tax (called GST for Goods & Services Tax). When I make purchases from any of my online Canuckistanian retailers I always get dinged the GST, but only get dinged the additional PST if the retailer's primary business address is registered in my province. The idea behind it is that the Federal government can then credit back portions of the collected GST to the provinces, which...they never do.

My advice, since online sales are still less than 10% of the total retails sales in the USA, fight like hell to have this tossed out. Lest you end up with some convoluted, brain-fucking system like we have up here in the Great White North. Of course if you're all in favor of making your federal bureaucracy wealthier than ever before, cheer it on.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2013, 07:16:34 PM »

Or, you know, like the law actually says, it's for the states to implement, must provide the software to the companies at no charge, and liability is limited for the parties involved.  But let's not let facts get in the way of stuff.  And our states have no problem suing the federal government for transgressions, real or imagined. 
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« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2013, 05:41:03 PM »

And it's dead.
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« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2013, 08:49:58 PM »

The word "tax" is anathema to the House unless immediately followed by "cut." I'm not surprised.
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« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2013, 08:53:47 PM »

Quote
Goodlatte said the bill is unfair to consumers since they would have to pay more.

"Transactions on the Internet are going to increase," the Republican congressman said. "It's obviously something where we want to make sure that the many, many businesses in this community who do business online and you don't see them because they don't have storefronts are treated fairly."

Wait, what? It is unfair because consumers will have to pay more in the form of taxes they are already supposed to be paying? And it would be unfair to the online retailers because they'd have to collect taxes that their brick and mortar counterparts are currently forced to collect? Do these people even listen to the words that come out of their mouths?
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« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2013, 11:13:39 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on June 06, 2013, 08:53:47 PM

Quote
Goodlatte said the bill is unfair to consumers since they would have to pay more.

"Transactions on the Internet are going to increase," the Republican congressman said. "It's obviously something where we want to make sure that the many, many businesses in this community who do business online and you don't see them because they don't have storefronts are treated fairly."

Wait, what? It is unfair because consumers will have to pay more in the form of taxes they are already supposed to be paying? And it would be unfair to the online retailers because they'd have to collect taxes that their brick and mortar counterparts are currently forced to collect? Do these people even listen to the words that come out of their mouths?

Yeah, it makes no sense. But rejoice!  Feel free to send your taxes along in your payments anyway, Teg!
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« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2013, 01:01:13 AM »

In spite of your taunting, teggy has a point.
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Re:
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2013, 01:54:59 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on June 07, 2013, 01:01:13 AM

In spite of your taunting, teggy has a point.

It does leave you wondering how well these people can understand English.
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