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Author Topic: So what do you think about wikileaks?  (Read 2368 times)
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ATB
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« on: November 28, 2010, 09:01:28 PM »

Trumpeter of freedom by combating secrecy with openness?  Threat to national security?

Thoughts/
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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2010, 09:33:15 PM »

I think some people applaud it  icon_lol

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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2010, 09:33:36 PM »

Internal government operating documents should not be subject to public scrutiny any more than your personal thoughts or journal should be opened up to everyone in your personal life.  Would your life benefit from your friends knowing everything that you said about them to your spouse, and vice versa?

The people running this have an anti-American agenda and should be classified as enemies of the state, with all actions able to us in the international community brought to bear against those who are responsible for their release.  Any domestic parties responsible for the release of these documents should be charged with treason.
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« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2010, 09:56:34 PM »

When the leaked documents reveal war crimes, I'm all for it. Nobody should get away with that kind of stuff. When they reveal internal diplomatic notes, they're rather pointless and end up helping nobody. In fact, they put innocent (and not so innocent) people's lives in severe danger.

I get the impression that the guy behind Wikileaks is simply desperate for attention and doesn't care if he causes anarchy with his methods.
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2010, 10:02:47 PM »

I'm sure he does care.  I'm sure that's his whole point.
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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2010, 11:17:15 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 28, 2010, 09:33:36 PM

Internal government operating documents should not be subject to public scrutiny any more than your personal thoughts or journal should be opened up to everyone in your personal life.  Would your life benefit from your friends knowing everything that you said about them to your spouse, and vice versa?

The people running this have an anti-American agenda and should be classified as enemies of the state, with all actions able to us in the international community brought to bear against those who are responsible for their release.  Any domestic parties responsible for the release of these documents should be charged with treason.

I agree completely.
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 03:02:31 AM »

Case-by-case. Generally speaking, sunshine keeps our system honest (or at least keeps the riffraff on their toes). Abuses of power and illegalities need to be aired lest they continue. Government of-by-for the people must be accountable to the people.

I take exception to information that puts lives at risk or weakens our defenses.
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 04:57:11 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 28, 2010, 09:33:36 PM

Internal government operating documents should not be subject to public scrutiny any more than your personal thoughts or journal should be opened up to everyone in your personal life.  Would your life benefit from your friends knowing everything that you said about them to your spouse, and vice versa?

The people running this have an anti-American agenda and should be classified as enemies of the state, with all actions able to us in the international community brought to bear against those who are responsible for their release.  Any domestic parties responsible for the release of these documents should be charged with treason.

I'm sure Richard Nixon would have wholeheartedly agreed with your opinion. 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;

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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2010, 05:06:12 PM »

Did I advocate taking action against all these newspapers that are releasing abstracts of the data?  No, I did not.  Wikileaks is not now nor has it ever been a journalistic endeavor.  Can you point me to the page where I can sign up for the Wikileaks home delivery option? 

Freedom of speech does not extend to taking classified documents that you did not write and releasing them to a group of foreign nationals.  Also, Bradley Manning was a soldier in the U.S. Army.  As such, he is held to the stricter standards of the UCMJ than Joe-Bob on the street. 

If a crime is being committed, there are avenues to report these things through different chains of command to make sure they are investigated.  But I have yet to see anything come across the wires to indicate that the goal was anything more than to air our laundry and cause the U.S. public embarrassment. 
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2010, 05:14:41 PM »

The NY Times has a response up about the questions and comments that they have received about their decisions to publish information about these documents.
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2010, 05:22:56 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 29, 2010, 05:06:12 PM

Did I advocate taking action against all these newspapers that are releasing abstracts of the data?  No, I did not.  Wikileaks is not now nor has it ever been a journalistic endeavor.  Can you point me to the page where I can sign up for the Wikileaks home delivery option?  

Media does not apply to just newspapers.  Of course, if you want to narrowly define media to those enterprises just owned by big businesses and government, that's certainly a point for discussion.  I think I might enjoy that debate.

Also, WikiLeaks most certainly is a journalistic endeavor.  Of this there is no doubt whatsoever.  It's just not a for-profit one.  Stealing directly from their website...

Quote
WikiLeaks is the winner of:

    * the 2008 Economist Index on Censorship Freedom of Expression award
    * the 2009 Amnesty International human rights reporting award (New Media)

WikiLeaks has a history breaking major stories in major media outlets and robustly protecting sources and press freedoms. We have never revealed a source. We do not censor material. Since formation in 2007, WikiLeaks has been victorious over every legal (and illegal) attack, including those from the Pentagon, the Chinese Public Security Bureau, the Former president of Kenya, the Premier of Bermuda, Scientology, the Catholic & Mormon Church, the largest Swiss private bank, and Russian companies. WikiLeaks has released more classified intelligence documents than the rest of the world press combined.

Some of the stories we have broken

    * War, killings, torture and detention
    * Government, trade and corporate transparency
    * Suppression of free speech and a free press
    * Diplomacy, spying and (counter-)intelligence
    * Ecology, climate, nature and sciences
    * Corruption, finance, taxes, trading
    * Censorship technology and internet filtering
    * Cults and other religious organizations
    * Abuse, violence, violation

War, killings, torture and detention

    * Changes in Guantanamo Bay SOP manual (2003-2004) - Guantanamo Bay's main operations manuals
    * Of Orwell, Wikipedia and Guantanamo Bay - In where we track down and expose Guantanamo Bay's propaganda team
    * Fallujah jail challenges US - Classified U.S. report into appalling prison conditions in Fallujah
    * U.S lost Fallujah's info war - Classified U.S. intelligence report on the battle of Fallujah, Iraq
    * US Military Equipment in Iraq (2007) - Entire unit by unit equipment list of the U.S army in Iraq
    * Dili investigator called to Canberra as evidence of execution mounts - the Feb 2008 killing of East Timor rebel leader Reinado
    * Como entrenar a escuadrones de la muerte y aplastar revoluciones de El Salvador a Iraq - The U.S. Special Forces manual on how to prop up unpopular government with paramilitaries

Government, trade and corporate transparency

    * Change you can download: a billion in secret Congressional reports - Publication of more than 6500 Congressional Research Reports, worth more than a billion dollars of US tax-funded research, long sought after by NGOs, academics and researchers
    * ACTA trade agreement negotiation lacks transparency - The secret ACTA trade agreement draft, followed by dozens of other publications, presenting the initial leak for the whole ACTA debate happening today
    * Toll Collect Vertraege, 2002 - Publication of around 10.000 pages of a secret contract between the German federal government and the Toll Collect consortium, a private operator group for heavy vehicle tolling system
    * Leaked documents suggest European CAP reform just a whitewash - European farm reform exposed
    * Stasi still in charge of Stasi files - Suppressed 2007 investigation into infiltration of former Stasi into the Stasi files commission
    * IGES Schlussbericht Private Krankenversicherung, 25 Jan 2010 - Hidden report on the economics of the German private health insurance system and its rentability

Suppression of free speech and a free press

    * The Independent: Toxic Shame: Thousands injured in African city, 17 Sep 2009 - Publication of an article originally published in UK newspaper The Independent, but censored from the Independent's website. WikiLeaks has saved dozens of articles, radio and tv recordings from disappearing after having been censored from BBC, Guardian, and other major news organisations archives.
    * Secret gag on UK Times preventing publication of Minton report into toxic waste dumping, 16 Sep 2009 - Publication of variations of a so-called super-injunction, one of many gag-orders published by WikiLeaks to expose successful attempts to suppress the free press via repressive legal attacks
    * Media suppression order over Turks and Caicos Islands Commission of Inquiry corruption report, 20 Jul 2009 - Exposure of a press gagging order from the Turks and Caicos Islands, related to WikiLeaks exposure of the Commission of Inquiry corruption report
    * Bermuda's Premier Brown and the BCC bankdraft - Brown went to the Privy council London to censor the press in Bermuda
    * How German intelligence infiltrated Focus magazine - Illegal spying on German journalists

Diplomacy, spying and (counter-)intelligence

    * U.S. Intelligence planned to destroy WikiLeaks, 18 Mar 2008 - Classified (SECRET/NOFORN) 32 page U.S. counterintelligence investigation into WikiLeaks. Has been in the worldwide news.
    * CIA report into shoring up Afghan war support in Western Europe, 11 Mar 2010 - This classified CIA analysis from March, outlines possible PR-strategies to shore up public support in Germany and France for a continued war in Afghanistan. Received international news coverage in print, radio and TV.
    * U.S. Embassy profiles on Icelandic PM, Foreign Minister, Ambassador - Publication of personal profiles for briefing documents for U.S. officials visiting Iceland. While lowly classified are interesting for subtle tone and internal facts.
    * Cross-border clashes from Iraq O.K. - Classified documents reveal destabalizing U.S. military rules
    * Tehran Warns US Forces against Chasing Suspects into Iran - Iran warns the United States over classified document on WikiLeaks
    * Inside Somalia and the Union of Islamic Courts - Vital strategy documents in the Somali war and a play for Chinese support

Ecology, climate, nature and sciences

    * Draft Copenhagen climate change agreement, 8 Dec 2009 - Confidential draft "circle of commitment" (rich-country) Copenhagen climate change agreement
    * Draft Copenhagen Accord Dec 18, 2009 - Three page draft Copehagen "accord", from around Friday 7pm, Dec 18, 2009; includes pen-markings
    * Climatic Research Unit emails, data, models, 1996-2009 - Over 60MB of emails, documents, code and models from the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, written between 1996 and 2009 that lead to a worldwide debate
    * The Monju nuclear reactor leak - Three suppressed videos from Japan's fast breeder reactor Monju revealing the true extent of the 1995 sodium coolant disaster

Corruption, finance, taxes, trading

    * The looting of Kenya under President Moi - $3,000,000,000 presidential corruption exposed; swung the Dec 2007 Kenyan election, long document, be patient
    * Gusmao's $15m rice deal alarms UN - Rice deal corruption in East Timor
    * How election violence was financed - the embargoed Kenyan Human Rights Commission report into the Jan 2008 killings of over 1,300 Kenyans
    * Financial collapse: Confidential exposure analysis of 205 companies each owing above EUR45M to Icelandic bank Kaupthing, 26 Sep 2008 - Publication of a confidential report that has lead to hundreds of newspaper articles worldwide
    * Barclays Bank gags Guardian over leaked memos detailing offshore tax scam, 16 Mar 2009 - Publication of censored documents revealing a number of elaborate international tax avoidance schemes by the SCM (Structured Capital Markets) division of Barclays
    * Bank Julius Baer: Grand Larceny via Grand Cayman - How the largest private Swiss bank avoids paying tax to the Swiss government
    * Der Fall Moonstone Trust - Cayman Islands Swiss bank trust exposed
    * Over 40 billion euro in 28167 claims made against the Kaupthing Bank, 23 Jan 2010 - List of Kaupthing claimants after Icelandic banking crash
    * Northern Rock vs. WikiLeaks - Northern Rock Bank UK failed legal injunctions over the °Ő24,000,000,000 collapse
    * Whistleblower exposes insider trading program at JP Morgan - Legal insider trading in three easy steps, brought to you by JP Morgan and the SEC

Censorship technology and internet filtering

    * Eutelsat suppresses independent Chinese-language TV station NTDTV to satisfy Beijing - French sat provider Eutelsat covertly removed an anti-communist TV channel to satisfy Beijing
    * Internet Censorship in Thailand - The secret internet censorship lists of Thailand's military junta

Cults and other religious organizations

    * Church of Scientology's 'Operating Thetan' documents leaked online - Scientology's secret, and highly litigated bibles
    * Censored Legion de Cristo and Regnum Cristi document collection - Censored internal documents from the Catholic sect Legion de Cristo (Legion of Christ)
    * US Department of Labor investigation into Landmark Education, 2006 - 2006 investigative report by the U.S. Department of Labor on Landmark Education

Abuse, violence, violation

    * Report on Shriners raises question of wrongdoing - corruption exposed at 22 U.S. and Canadian children's hospitals.
    * Claims of molestation resurface for US judo official
    * Texas Catholic hospitals did not follow Catholic ethics, report claims - Catholic hospitals violated catholic ethics

So, exactly how are they not a "journalistic endeavor" again?

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 29, 2010, 05:06:12 PM

Freedom of speech does not extend to taking classified documents that you did not write and releasing them to a group of foreign nationals.  Also, Bradley Manning was a soldier in the U.S. Army.  As such, he is held to the stricter standards of the UCMJ than Joe-Bob on the street.  

If a crime is being committed, there are avenues to report these things through different chains of command to make sure they are investigated.  But I have yet to see anything come across the wires to indicate that the goal was anything more than to air our laundry and cause the U.S. public embarrassment.  

Bradley Manning may have a problem, but there's precious little difference between what he's doing and what Mark Felt did 40 years ago.  There's a line there and it's going to be razor sharp.  I don't know if Manning has crossed it because what Manning has produced is evidence of wrongdoing - the murder of the journalists and subsequent cover-up in Iraq is pretty clearly wrongdoing.  Other stuff probably isn't and that's probably what will burn him.  But the chain of command sweeps shit under the rug and there is whistleblower protection out there.  But that all applies to Manning and not to WikiLeaks.  Did WikiLeaks steal said material?  If not, then I don't see where that comes into play.
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2010, 05:26:03 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 28, 2010, 09:33:36 PM

Internal government operating documents should not be subject to public scrutiny any more than your personal thoughts or journal should be opened up to everyone in your personal life.  Would your life benefit from your friends knowing everything that you said about them to your spouse, and vice versa?


I have to disagree with this somewhat.  Should everything that happens in government always be open to the public?  No.  But you and your wife do not have power over millions of people, economies, and laws.  It is not a fair analogy.  I have to admit I err on the side of the public knowing more not less.  Secrecy gives places like Iran more power not less.  It is a good thing if the public know that most people, even their neighbors, think that Iran is a problem.

I can see how trust would be hurt and that other countries will worry more about talking with the US.  I also agree that the soldier responsible should be punished, as he is not an ordinary citizen and should be held to a different standard.  But maybe I just have a streak of anarchist in me, but I tend to like government operations to be more open and I must say I am more for the leaks than against.
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2010, 05:43:41 PM »

Blackadar, releasing documents does not make one a journalist.  If that were the case, then my library is a journalistic endeavor.  Journalism requires actual reporting.  Wikileaks is no more a journalism entity than Pirate Bay is a movie review site.  Getty images is more of a journalistic endeavor, as they actually create images.  Wikileaks is a clearinghouse of data that others have generated, nothing more. 

xenocide, but as a couple, the decisions parents make should not be open to full review and speculation by the kids (yes, I know it's not a perfect metaphor).  As for Iran, take a look at the NYT piece that I linked:

Quote
Second, while it is enlightening to see these observations in official cables, for the most part they enlarge rather than upend our understanding of complex foreign relations. For example, The Times has reported on numerous occasions that Iranís Arab neighbors share Americaís (and Israelís) worry about the prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran. The cables dramatize the depth of their concern, but the fact of their concern is not revelatory.

The Iran information was widely available in general, and there is no pressing need to know the specifics of what word choice the Saudi Ambassador may have used when making those statements.  And yes, even the NY Times knows that there is a need for moderation in these types of situations:

Quote
The government, of course, has the right ó under law, and as a matter of common sense ó to keep some information secret. When the government fails to do so, as it did in this case owing to a security breach that has reportedly been corrected, then we have to decide what to do with the fallout. In this instance, our choices were these: to ignore the secret documents, knowing they would be widely read anyway, picked over, possibly published without removal of dangerous information, probably used to advance various agendas; or, to study them, put them in context, and publish articles based on them, along with a carefully redacted selection of actual documents. We chose the latter course.
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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2010, 05:56:45 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 29, 2010, 05:43:41 PM

xenocide, but as a couple, the decisions parents make should not be open to full review and speculation by the kids (yes, I know it's not a perfect metaphor). 

Even though you say you know it is not a perfect metaphor, I have to say it is a little scary the way you call the government parents and the people its children, implying some not so nice things about the public.  And I am not one to think that the general public is a bunch of geniuses.

I think saying it is "not a perfect metaphor" is not just understating it, it does not work at all.  The government should be of the people, by the people, for the people.  Saying the government keeping secrets is like parents not talking to their 2 year old about their sex life is pretty insulting. 
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2010, 06:04:53 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on November 29, 2010, 05:43:41 PM

Blackadar, releasing documents does not make one a journalist.  If that were the case, then my library is a journalistic endeavor.  Journalism requires actual reporting.  Wikileaks is no more a journalism entity than Pirate Bay is a movie review site.  Getty images is more of a journalistic endeavor, as they actually create images.  Wikileaks is a clearinghouse of data that others have generated, nothing more.  

Sorry Isgrimnur, I think you're way off base here.  We're talking about "the press" (of which journalism is a part but not the whole).  The press is not just limited to paid journalists.  Freedom of the Press is the right to publish and distribute information in media without government intervention.  As such, what generally and legally constitutes "the press" as it relates to the 1st Amendment because is rather different than your (narrow) interpretation.

Furthermore, The Supreme Court time and time again - in cases such as Pentagon Papers case - has established that freedom of the press from previous restraints on publication is nearly absolute, encompassing the right to publish information that a president concluded would harm the national security, if not the movements of troopships at sea in time of war.  There are restraints, but they are extremely limited and causing the government embarrassment isn't one of them.
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2010, 06:22:34 PM »

It's not about not talking to the kids about your sex life, it's about letting your kids have access to you e-mail and browsing history.  These releases aren't about war crimes, they're about what the ambassador said after he had three drinks in him.  There are levels of information that are not necessary to a full understanding of what our government was doing.  

There's no smoking gun here.  These aren't the Pentagon papers, it's an e-mail dump with all the funny cat pictures and the horrible things they said about the guy two countries over.

Anyway, I'm not advocating for suppression of the docuemnts now.  I'm advocating for the full prosecution of those responsible for the release to unauthorized parties.  I stand by my position that the release of these documents to Wikileaks is a crime, as the people responsible for the initial leak were in violation of the law, just as you would be if you leaked internal company documents to the press.  You would expect to be fired and sued for that breach of trust if this was not under a clear case of illegal activity.  I have not advocated any extra-judicial action against Wikileaks or any journalistic agency that is publishing the information.  But the fact remains that there is nothing groundbreaking in these documents and the only result so far has been to embarrass the U.S. in the international community, which I'm fairly certain has been Wikileaks' sole goal from the get go.
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« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2010, 07:21:34 PM »

I've been following this these past couple of days. I think Wikileaks is playing a very dangerous game here.. and I wouldn't be surprised if they're 'taken out' soon. And I don't mean just bringing down the site with DoS attacks. They just painted a big ole red target on the back of all its key people. The intelligence community has neutralized people over lesser infractions.
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2010, 03:11:00 AM »

I hate to say it but I don't mind the leaks.  The truth hurts but it hurts more when it's proven that our leaders have lied to our face so many times that they shouldn't be trusted to make a cup of coffee...much less run one of the most powerful countries in the world.  Maybe it's time we start holding our "dear leaders" accountable instead of writing it off.  Especially when they are breaking US and International law on a regular basis.

The bad thing is that I do believe he has an anti-US agenda.  I would be more forgiving if he was releasing leaks from all of the major countries...though some of the diplomatic releases do point out one country badmouthing another (in a lot of cases).  I think the upcoming releases are going to set off a powder keg especially when he gets to the banks.

It's sad that integrity and the truth tend to be the last two things a politician thinks about anymore.
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2010, 04:31:10 AM »

Quote from: ericb on December 01, 2010, 03:11:00 AM

I hate to say it but I don't mind the leaks.  The truth hurts but it hurts more when it's proven that our leaders have lied to our face so many times that they shouldn't be trusted to make a cup of coffee...much less run one of the most powerful countries in the world.  Maybe it's time we start holding our "dear leaders" accountable instead of writing it off.  Especially when they are breaking US and International law on a regular basis.

Maybe I haven't read enough about it, but that doesn't seem what the leaks were. They were talking shit, looking at things harshly, and things you don't want everyone to hear, but I haven't read anything that betrays my trust. I am sure other governments aren't too happy though.
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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2010, 04:39:33 AM »

Quote from: Lee on December 01, 2010, 04:31:10 AM

Quote from: ericb on December 01, 2010, 03:11:00 AM

I hate to say it but I don't mind the leaks.  The truth hurts but it hurts more when it's proven that our leaders have lied to our face so many times that they shouldn't be trusted to make a cup of coffee...much less run one of the most powerful countries in the world.  Maybe it's time we start holding our "dear leaders" accountable instead of writing it off.  Especially when they are breaking US and International law on a regular basis.

Maybe I haven't read enough about it, but that doesn't seem what the leaks were. They were talking shit, looking at things harshly, and not things you don't want everyone to hear, but I haven't read anything that betrays my trust. I am sure other governments aren't too happy though.

but who doesn't want to hear what some of our people think about various world leaders?  I'll give Putin extra points if he uses the phrase 'I'm Batman!' at least once.
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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2010, 04:36:40 PM »

As an ex-newspaper reporter, the sad thing to me is that in the old days, journalists (print, TV, radio) worked through their contacts to get leaks like the kind WikiLeaks reveals. In today's world, so-called journalists "report" on WikiLeaks reports about leaks instead.  icon_smile

Obviously though, if these guys are finding all this "confidential" information, the powers that be are doing a lousy job of keeping confidential information, well, confidential. Maybe they should spend more time trying to fix that, instead of whining and moaning about WikiLeaks itself.
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2010, 10:37:49 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on December 01, 2010, 04:36:40 PM

Obviously though, if these guys are finding all this "confidential" information, the powers that be are doing a lousy job of keeping confidential information, well, confidential. Maybe they should spend more time trying to fix that, instead of whining and moaning about WikiLeaks itself.
Well basically a spy turned it over to them. Hope that Army guy never sees the light of day again. Would a real journalist publish something from such a source?
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2010, 08:05:39 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 28, 2010, 09:56:34 PM

When the leaked documents reveal war crimes, I'm all for it. Nobody should get away with that kind of stuff. When they reveal internal diplomatic notes, they're rather pointless and end up helping nobody. In fact, they put innocent (and not so innocent) people's lives in severe danger.

I get the impression that the guy behind Wikileaks is simply desperate for attention and doesn't care if he causes anarchy with his methods.


Agreed with all of this.  By concept, whistleblowers are a necessity.  In this particular practice, it's sometimes great and sometimes pointless and terrible.
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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2010, 11:27:51 PM »

Does anyone else find the timing of this rape charge against the founder suspicious?  Seems a great way to discredit and take the focus off the content and put it on him
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« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2010, 11:40:52 PM »

I find it hard to believe that both the Swedish government and Interpol would be furthering something that was merely a witchhunt.  After all, why would the Swedes care about him embarrassing the U.S.? 
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« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2010, 02:57:06 AM »

Quote from: Lee on December 01, 2010, 10:37:49 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on December 01, 2010, 04:36:40 PM

Obviously though, if these guys are finding all this "confidential" information, the powers that be are doing a lousy job of keeping confidential information, well, confidential. Maybe they should spend more time trying to fix that, instead of whining and moaning about WikiLeaks itself.
Well basically a spy turned it over to them. Hope that Army guy never sees the light of day again. Would a real journalist publish something from such a source?

A real journalist would not just spam the source material. After verifying it, s/he would (with editorial guidance) select the more interesting and important parts, expand upon them, and turn it into a coherent narrative. WikiLeaks does not appear to use much judgment -- just throw it all at the wall and see what sticks.

There is important and newsworthy information in all of that gossip -- the revelation that much of the Arab world is alarmed by Iran's nuclear program and would tacitly welcome US or Israeli intervention is huge. There's no news value in the Batman & Robin snark.
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« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2010, 06:13:30 AM »

Julian Assange Fired From IT Job At Pentagon

Quote
With officials describing his publication of sensitive U.S. State Department documents as "the last straw," Wikileaks founder Julian Assange was asked to resign from his position as the Pentagon's IT coordinator Monday
icon_biggrin
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« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2010, 02:12:45 AM »



The tl;dr summary made me  icon_biggrin.
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« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2010, 05:09:14 AM »

Quote from: Moliere on December 03, 2010, 06:13:30 AM

Julian Assange Fired From IT Job At Pentagon

Quote
With officials describing his publication of sensitive U.S. State Department documents as "the last straw," Wikileaks founder Julian Assange was asked to resign from his position as the Pentagon's IT coordinator Monday
icon_biggrin

and it took them how long to come to this conclusion?  they let the guy responsible for putting sensitive documents up on the web work in their IT department until now?  wow, that's some crack security staff there Pentagon, way to go.
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« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2010, 05:17:06 AM »

Quote from: Caine on December 06, 2010, 05:09:14 AM

Quote from: Moliere on December 03, 2010, 06:13:30 AM

Julian Assange Fired From IT Job At Pentagon

Quote
With officials describing his publication of sensitive U.S. State Department documents as "the last straw," Wikileaks founder Julian Assange was asked to resign from his position as the Pentagon's IT coordinator Monday
icon_biggrin

and it took them how long to come to this conclusion?  they let the guy responsible for putting sensitive documents up on the web work in their IT department until now?  wow, that's some crack security staff there Pentagon, way to go.

umm... Onion?
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« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2010, 05:36:30 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on December 06, 2010, 05:17:06 AM

Quote from: Caine on December 06, 2010, 05:09:14 AM

Quote from: Moliere on December 03, 2010, 06:13:30 AM

Julian Assange Fired From IT Job At Pentagon

Quote
With officials describing his publication of sensitive U.S. State Department documents as "the last straw," Wikileaks founder Julian Assange was asked to resign from his position as the Pentagon's IT coordinator Monday
icon_biggrin

and it took them how long to come to this conclusion?  they let the guy responsible for putting sensitive documents up on the web work in their IT department until now?  wow, that's some crack security staff there Pentagon, way to go.

umm... Onion?

it brings tears to my eyes
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« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2010, 05:43:11 AM »

This thread gives me hope  icon_biggrin

But these "leaks" aren't nothing that most if not all countries are guilty of......spyings, warnings, opinions, data gathering, recommendations, etc etc on other countries and leaders. But what it does do is give other leaders a 'tool' or 'weapon' to use against us to get something out of it.

Other leaders are probably laughing over this, but salivating at what it might get them now.
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« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2010, 05:47:24 AM »

Quote from: Zekester on December 06, 2010, 05:43:11 AM

Other leaders are probably laughing over this, but salivating at what it might get them now.

It's a little more complicated than that. These cable dispatches have plenty of quotes from powerful people all over the world talking about other powerful people all over the world. It embarrasses everyone and will make future diplomatic meetings awkward.
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« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2010, 05:51:16 AM »

No shit.

But you're not gonna tell me that other leaders/governments aren't guilty of saying and doing the same thing, more or less.
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« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2010, 06:23:52 AM »

Quote from: Zekester on December 06, 2010, 05:51:16 AM

But you're not gonna tell me that other leaders/governments aren't guilty of saying and doing the same thing, more or less.

I'm pretty sure I just said that. These cables are not just Americans talking about other world leaders. They are other leaders/governments talking about each other. The leaks include, for example, Chinese leaders referring to North Korea in a derogatory manner as they try and figure out what to do with their recalcitrant neighbor.
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« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2010, 06:27:15 AM »

Quote from: Moliere on December 06, 2010, 06:23:52 AM

Quote from: Zekester on December 06, 2010, 05:51:16 AM

But you're not gonna tell me that other leaders/governments aren't guilty of saying and doing the same thing, more or less.

I'm pretty sure I just said that. These cables are not just Americans talking about other world leaders. They are other leaders/governments talking about each other. The leaks include, for example, Chinese leaders referring to North Korea in a derogatory manner as they try and figure out what to do with their recalcitrant neighbor.

China referring to NK in a derogatory manner? Oh nos! I bet NK is shocked!!

Come on, man. They all do it, they all know it. We just got called out on it.
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« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2010, 07:16:58 PM »

It strikes me that Julian Assange sounds like the name of a bad guy from '24'.  nod
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« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2010, 02:21:40 AM »

I think he looks like a villan from 24 or Alias too.

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« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2010, 08:24:05 AM »

4Chan weighs in.
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« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2010, 08:50:32 AM »

Quote from: Ironrod on December 03, 2010, 02:57:06 AM

Quote from: Lee on December 01, 2010, 10:37:49 PM

Quote from: Blackjack on December 01, 2010, 04:36:40 PM

Obviously though, if these guys are finding all this "confidential" information, the powers that be are doing a lousy job of keeping confidential information, well, confidential. Maybe they should spend more time trying to fix that, instead of whining and moaning about WikiLeaks itself.
Well basically a spy turned it over to them. Hope that Army guy never sees the light of day again. Would a real journalist publish something from such a source?

A real journalist would not just spam the source material. After verifying it, s/he would (with editorial guidance) select the more interesting and important parts, expand upon them, and turn it into a coherent narrative. WikiLeaks does not appear to use much judgment -- just throw it all at the wall and see what sticks.

There is important and newsworthy information in all of that gossip -- the revelation that much of the Arab world is alarmed by Iran's nuclear program and would tacitly welcome US or Israeli intervention is huge. There's no news value in the Batman & Robin snark.


http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/07/wikileaks/index.html

Quote
WikiLeaks has posted to its website only 960 of the 251,297 diplomatic cables it has.  Almost every one of these cables was first published by one of its newspaper partners which are disclosing them (The Guardian, the NYT, El Pais, Le Monde, Der Speigel, etc.).  Moreover, the cables posted by WikiLeaks were not only first published by these newspapers, but contain the redactions applied by those papers to protect innocent people and otherwise minimize harm.

Interesting. So they only post cables that have already been revealed by newspapers and also redacted to minimize harm. So I guess wikileaks is not as evil as we thought?

Some real journalists from real newspapers selected and choose which cables to post.
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