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Author Topic: Sequestration  (Read 4189 times)
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2013, 08:22:49 PM »

Anyone in the house/senate or administration that isn't in favor of across the board spending cuts (including completely eliminating the rampant waste) should be immediately fired.

Gratch, point taken regarding the very real cost of this debacle.  I felt the administration's strategy to over dramatize the impact of the sequester to be nothing more than an attempt to divert attention in leu of going to work on actually working with the house to come up with a real debt reduction plan and eliminate this kicking the can down the road bullshit that both sides are equally guilty of.
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« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2013, 08:52:51 PM »

Well, at least you've backed off your attempt to portray the current administration as wanting sequestration.  

As for the current administration not wanting to work with Congress on coming up with a mutually acceptable plan, I would say that it's probably more that Congress is less likely to work with them.  Hell, even John Boehner couldn't even get his OWN folks to agree within their own party a few months back when the fiscal cliff was the financial problem of the moment.  If they can't compromise within their own ranks, what makes you think they were able to assemble any kind of unified plan to present to the WH?
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« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2013, 10:32:52 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 07, 2013, 08:22:49 PM

Anyone in the house/senate or administration that isn't in favor of across the board spending cuts (including completely eliminating the rampant waste) should be immediately fired.

Gratch, point taken regarding the very real cost of this debacle.  I felt the administration's strategy to over dramatize the impact of the sequester to be nothing more than an attempt to divert attention in leu of going to work on actually working with the house to come up with a real debt reduction plan and eliminate this kicking the can down the road bullshit that both sides are equally guilty of.


Uh-huh.

Here's a recent article by Ezra Klein documenting, tweet by tweet, how negotiations on the sequester have been going.

Quote from: Ezra Klein
So let’s back up. [Republican strategist Mike] Murphy’s initial view was that to unlock GOP votes for a budget deal, Obama just needed to endorse chained CPI and more means-testing in Medicare. Then it was pointed out that Obama has endorsed means-testing in Medicare, so Murphy wondered why he didn’t endorse chained CPI as part of a deal. Then it was pointed out that Obama did endorse chained CPI, at which point Murphy called chained CPI “a gimmick,” and said Obama had to endorse raising the Medicare age, drop his demands for more revenue as part of a deal and earn back the GOP’s trust.


Short version: Republicans are making public demands about what it'll take to reach a budget deal, then when it's pointed out their demands are already part of the White House's proposal, they wave it off and move the goalposts farther back.

And it's all happening while Conservatives simultaneously try to argue that President Obama is just fearmongering about no big deal:

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 04, 2013, 06:54:11 PM

The most ironic thing is that the idiotic scare tactics were being used to oppose what his idea to begin with.


...but also a terrible blight for which he should shoulder the blame.

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 07, 2013, 12:11:52 PM

I hate that so many have been impacted by the sequester (Obama's idea from the start).


Aside from the lying, stalling, and shameless double-talking, though, Conservatives are probably really serious about pursuing honorable negotiations for the good of the country.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2013, 10:47:33 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 07, 2013, 01:54:46 AM

I'm a commission only sales type and our numbers are up 40% over last year, so it isn't bad for all salesmen smile

Did you think you'd see a difference in 5 days?

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« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2013, 01:58:44 AM »

AA - one thing we an certainly agree on is the total ineptness of the current federal government to act like adults and actually solve the problem.

Additionally, the Washington post article is discussing one republican strategists opinion on the collapse of the debt talks and I hardly think that does anything to further your point.
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« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2013, 02:35:34 AM »

How many does it take then? 
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2013, 02:41:46 AM »

It would take someone more than a strategist...
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« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2013, 03:12:12 AM »

I'm guessing it would take someone telling you what you want hear.
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« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2013, 11:41:27 AM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 08, 2013, 01:58:44 AM

Additionally, the Washington post article is discussing one republican strategists opinion on the collapse of the debt talks and I hardly think that does anything to further your point.


Perhaps a couple elected officials, then.  Here's an excerpt from Ezra Klein's preceding article:

Quote from: Ezra Klein
On Thursday, I attended a background briefing with one of the most respected Republicans in Congress. The rules on these gatherings is you can’t name those involved, but you can quote them. That gives the lawmaker room to be a bit more honest without fear of immediate public reprisal. The discussion was frank and, in a way, encouraging — it suggested that some of the gridlock in Washington is simply the result of poor information.

Would it matter, one reporter asked the veteran legislator, if the president were to put chained-CPI — a policy that reconfigures the way the government measures inflation and thus slows the growth of Social Security benefits — on the table?

“Absolutely,” the legislator said. “That’s serious.”

Another reporter jumped in. “But it is on the table! They tell us three times a day that they want to do chained-CPI.”

“Who wants to do it?” said the legislator.

“The president,” replied the reporter.

“I’d love to see it,” laughed the legislator.

You can see it. If you go to WhiteHouse.gov, the first thing you’ll see is an invitation to read the president’s plan to replace the sequester. That plan is only a page. “Savings from Superlative CPI” — another way of saying chained-CPI (consumer price index) — is one of the items in bold type.



And here's an NBC report coming out of President Obama's sit-down dinner with a group of Republican senators:

Quote from: NBC News
As for Obama’s dinner last night, it went very well, according to various NBC conversations with the GOP participants. It was serious. It was respectful. And it was informative. (In fact, one senator told us that he learned, for the first time, the actual cuts that the president has put on the table. Leadership hadn’t shared that list with them before)



You know what the first step is to convincing people that you're serious about solving big problems?  Caring enough to occasionally glance at what those problems actually are.

-Autistic Angel
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2013, 12:04:54 PM »

Like the President finally giving the republican leadership more than 7 minutes of his time? 

He stopped his dog and pony show after his approval rating plummeted even more.

He still isn't serious about making the across the board cuts necessary to get us out of this mess either.
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« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2013, 01:53:03 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 08, 2013, 12:04:54 PM

He still isn't serious about making the across the board cuts necessary to get us out of this mess either.

He ran (and won) on a platform that repeatedly said he would revise the way the wealthy are taxed in this country.  The major sticking point right now is that the republicans in congress are so worried about their political careers that they're saying "NO!" to any plan that includes tax hikes.  If they were truly there to help this country, they'd compromise.  Considering that the majority of the country backs the president's plan to include some tax hikes, I find it odd how you keep saying that Obama is the one that's torpedoing these talks.

While I'm unhappy with him right now for various reasons (drone strikes, etc.), I don't believe the blame lies mostly with Obama in this situation.
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« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2013, 02:48:22 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on March 08, 2013, 01:53:03 PM

While I'm unhappy with him right now for various reasons (drone strikes, etc.), I don't believe the blame lies mostly with Obama in this situation.

As a fellow independent, I agree with this. That said, what has happened to a president who could cross the aisle and make things happen?  just by trading on his name and authority. Seems like we haven't had one since Clinton. Is this a result of low approval ratings? If so, who's fault are those? Not solely the repubs. 

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« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2013, 02:54:30 PM »

Quote from: ATB on March 08, 2013, 02:48:22 PM

As a fellow independent, I agree with this. That said, what has happened to a president who could cross the aisle and make things happen?  just by trading on his name and authority. Seems like we haven't had one since Clinton. Is this a result of low approval ratings? If so, who's fault are those? Not solely the repubs.  

Not solely, just mostly.  As AA pointed out above, the fact that the "rank and file" GOP politicians weren't even aware of which cuts Obama has actually proposed speaks volumes as to their leadership's willingness to even begin to compromise.

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« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2013, 03:43:54 PM »

Quote from: ATB on March 08, 2013, 02:48:22 PM


As a fellow independent, I agree with this.


  icon_lol
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« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2013, 06:33:11 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on March 08, 2013, 02:54:30 PM



Frankly, I think this pretty fairly sums up the Obama presidency.

He started out optimistic and sure the GOP would come around if he took a middle of the road and try to build consensus. But as time went on and they dug their heels in (or moved further way as illustrated) he stopped trying and now it's politics as usual....actually worse than.
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« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2013, 10:22:44 PM »

What else could he have done? Continued to try to meet them in the "middle" and drift ever further right?
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« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2013, 02:30:44 AM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 08, 2013, 12:04:54 PM

Like the President finally giving the republican leadership more than 7 minutes of his time?  

He stopped his dog and pony show after his approval rating plummeted even more.

He still isn't serious about making the across the board cuts necessary to get us out of this mess either.


In a new budget proposal released earlier this week, House Republicans made sure to deny the community advocacy group ACORN access to federal funding of any kind.  This should be an easy provision to satisfy considering ACORN ceased to exist in March of 2010.  Link:

Quote from: The Huffington Post
A new short-term budget bill introduced on Monday by House Republicans includes a bizarre provision banning federal funding to anti-poverty group ACORN, despite the fact that the group has already been stripped of federal funding -- and has been defunct for nearly three years.

ACORN leaders announced that the group was disbanding in March 2010, after Congress cut off all federal funding to the organization. The provision in the current GOP budget bill [PDF], buried on page 221 of 269, would duplicate legislation that has already passed, to target an organization that does not exist.


Even if it were true that President Obama has been refusing to meet with Republican leadership -- and, of course, it isn't -- how would you like him to spend the time?  Introducing the caucus to basic facts by reading newspaper articles aloud?

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« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2013, 02:44:53 PM »

http://youtu.be/cKbMhr-cfh8
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« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2013, 05:23:54 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 10, 2013, 02:44:53 PM


What's that Obama budget proposal Harris is talking about? I thought there was no such thing.

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« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2013, 11:01:45 PM »

Quote from: Alefroth on March 10, 2013, 05:23:54 PM

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 10, 2013, 02:44:53 PM


What's that Obama budget proposal Harris is talking about? I thought there was no such thing.

Ale

Probably this one that Ryan brought forward today.  And we know the GOP is super serious about it this time...because it includes repealing Obamacare.   Roll Eyes  

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« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2013, 02:28:51 AM »

Yeah, until that little tidbit came out I had hoped that the Republicans were getting serious this time. About governing, I mean, not just maneuvering. Silly me.
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Eco-Logic
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« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2013, 03:56:20 PM »

Because the POTUS is so damn serious about governing??  Ya...Right.
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« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2013, 05:25:20 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on March 08, 2013, 10:22:44 PM

What else could he have done? Continued to try to meet them in the "middle" and drift ever further right?

I'm not blaming him.
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« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2013, 05:28:27 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 11, 2013, 03:56:20 PM

Because the POTUS is so damn serious about governing??  Ya...Right.

I know Autistic Angel always kicks your ass up and down the forum every time he replies to one of your posts, but that's no reason to just give up.
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« Reply #64 on: March 12, 2013, 11:46:41 AM »

Kitten you disappoint me.  It took you 3 pages this time to attempt to be a smart ass. 

I know AA's your idol and all, but now your just being silly.
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« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2013, 03:29:06 PM »

Eccy, eccy, eccy...i was being a smart ass in this thread long before this post.  And while I love it when AA schools you every time he replies to one of your posts, I sometimes view him as a liberal version of you in that he sometimes gets a little TOO fanatical.  However, unlike you, he actually attempts to back up those beliefs with facts.  The only way you could get smacked down more is if you were dating Chris Brown.
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« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2013, 05:25:21 PM »

See though, you all are simply low information monkeys in a cage that I sometime enjoy riling up.  Your belief that I get smacked around in these threads add even more to the humor of the whole thing. 

The government as a whole has to change and the spending has to be reigned in.  Fiscally, this President has done more harm to this country than I'd ever imagined he would do.  If you are on the other side of this belief you are delusional and not looking at the facts.  As a 31 year old father of two young children I have no patience nor respect for a anyone that doesn't support comprehensive cuts in government spending.  We are lucky that we print our own currency and even with that advantage it will eventually catch up to us and the resulting damage to the economy will far exceed the damage caused by the budget cuts.

FYI, I respect other opposing views (ie social views), but not this one.  This is basic math and being on the opposing side of this argument is like telling me that 1+1=5.
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« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2013, 05:36:21 PM »

The best part of your posts is when you try to tell everyone that YOU'RE the one who's riling people up.   icon_lol  That's like a battered and defeated boxer laying on the floor of the ring and telling the audience that he's won.

Of course you view yourself as the winner in all discussions.  But the reality of what happens when you get rebuttals is a mix of tragedy and comedy.  It's tragic to watch you get slapped around, but funny when you realize you actually think you're winning any argument.

By the way, thanks for letting us know that our government needs to start saving money!  It's not like both sides haven't been working on a budget to do just that.  I know your simplistic knowledge of government equates to "Donkey bad!  Elephant good!", but come on.  You're not exactly MENSA material with summations like "we need to balance the budget!".  I know you SAY you're allowed to work with money in the course of your day job...but I still find that hard to believe based on your almost clueless posts on the economy.  icon_wink
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« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2013, 05:51:43 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on March 12, 2013, 05:36:21 PM

"Donkey bad!  Elephant good!"

And vice versa.

This sums up most of Washington.
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« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2013, 07:07:33 PM »

Yeah, I know.  I just like messin' with Eco and watching him finally just wind down his posts with the "You're all stupid because you're stupid!" outburst.  He usually does this when he's getting frustrated.   icon_wink
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« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2013, 07:17:41 PM »

Quote
The government as a whole has to change and the spending has to be reigned in.  Fiscally, this President has done more harm to this country than I'd ever imagined he would do.  If you are on the other side of this belief you are delusional and not looking at the facts.  As a 31 year old father of two young children I have no patience nor respect for a anyone that doesn't support comprehensive cuts in government spending.  We are lucky that we print our own currency and even with that advantage it will eventually catch up to us and the resulting damage to the economy will far exceed the damage caused by the budget cuts.

FYI, I respect other opposing views (ie social views), but not this one.  This is basic math and being on the opposing side of this argument is like telling me that 1+1=5.

I don't think we disagree with the fact that government spending needs to be reigned in significantly.  However:

1.  The "blunt instrument" cuts implemented by sequestration (blunt by design) are an asinine way to do it.
2.  The GOP's position that we can balance the budget entirely by cutting without a single penny of additional revenue generated is complete fantasyland nonsense. There needs to be a middle ground.
3.  The fact that expenditures and entitlements that were fine up until 1/19/09 and became "OMG EVIL MUSLIM SOSHZALIZM!!" a day later are what makes many of us  Roll Eyes

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 12, 2013, 05:25:21 PM

See though, you all are simply low information monkeys in a cage that I sometime enjoy riling up.  Your belief that I get smacked around in these threads add even more to the humor of the whole thing. 

Sure is nice of you to come down from your perch to provide all us monkeys with...a distinct lack of any information at all other than Fox News talking points.  I feel incredibly enlightened!
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« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2013, 07:36:16 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 12, 2013, 05:25:21 PM

See though, you all are simply low information monkeys in a cage that I sometime enjoy riling up.  Your belief that I get smacked around in these threads add even more to the humor of the whole thing. 

Let me just get this out of the way.  I've not met you.  I don't know your specific details.  But I want to be clear about this:  I am certain I am to superior to you in every measurable way.  Period.
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« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2013, 07:42:03 PM »

Y'know, I sure wish that gellar guy had a little more confidence.
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« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2013, 07:45:08 PM »

Quote from: gellar on March 12, 2013, 07:36:16 PM


Let me just get this out of the way.  I've not met you.  I don't know your specific details.  But I want to be clear about this:  I am certain I am to superior to you in every measurable way.  Period.

...careful.  you may find yourself short an order of fries the next time you go through the drive thru on Eco's shift.
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« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2013, 08:00:20 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on March 12, 2013, 07:45:08 PM

Quote from: gellar on March 12, 2013, 07:36:16 PM


Let me just get this out of the way.  I've not met you.  I don't know your specific details.  But I want to be clear about this:  I am certain I am to superior to you in every measurable way.  Period.

...careful.  you may find yourself short an order of fries the next time you go through the drive thru on Eco's shift.

I DON'T EAT FAST FOOD, PEASANT.
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« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2013, 08:01:13 PM »

Quote from: gellar on March 12, 2013, 08:00:20 PM

Quote from: hepcat on March 12, 2013, 07:45:08 PM

Quote from: gellar on March 12, 2013, 07:36:16 PM


Let me just get this out of the way.  I've not met you.  I don't know your specific details.  But I want to be clear about this:  I am certain I am to superior to you in every measurable way.  Period.

...careful.  you may find yourself short an order of fries the next time you go through the drive thru on Eco's shift.

I DON'T EAT FAST FOOD, PEASANT.

and I didn't know Taco Bell sold fries.
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hepcat
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« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2013, 08:15:19 PM »

He took a second job?
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« Reply #77 on: March 12, 2013, 08:19:46 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on March 12, 2013, 08:15:19 PM

He took a second job?

yeah, you broke the news biggrin
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« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2013, 11:32:24 AM »

Oh snap, the monkeys have thrown down the gauntlet and began the usual school boy insults. 

See though, the difference between us is that if things ever got really bad i would take a second job before milking the bloated entitlement system.  Hep on the other hand would be first in line for an Obama phone I'm certain.
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« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2013, 11:50:16 AM »

Is that like a Snoopy phone?  I had one when I was a kid.  Loved that thing.  Don't recall it ever generating income though.  Mostly I'd just use it to call an imaginary friend named Tuttle.  Tuttle was a magic werewolf and we'd solve crimes involving chocolate and comic book thefts.

You ever own a phone, Eco?  Was it shaped like a celebrity? 
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