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Author Topic: SCOTUS: OK to take DNA from Arrestees  (Read 1555 times)
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Harkonis
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« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2013, 12:31:45 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on June 17, 2013, 03:01:07 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on June 17, 2013, 02:30:28 PM

You guys are oddly paranoid about a lot of things, and seemingly fine with others that feel more invasive.  Ah well, part of why I have so few reads in P&R smile

And you're oddly surprised that not everyone has the same opinion on things.  Are you just now emerging from a cave and experiencing humanity for the first time?   icon_razz

not for the first time, but there IS a reason I only come out of my cave for Gencon
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Moliere
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« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2013, 02:40:45 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on June 03, 2013, 07:08:00 PM

There are a lot of things that I wish we didn't have to do in order to maintain some semblance of safety or order, but I also understand that many of those things are necessary and not the product of ill design.   I guess we'll have to agree to disagree as our thresholds of acceptability on this matter are obviously not the same.

What about your drivers license photo?

Quote
The faces of more than 120 million people are in searchable photo databases that state officials assembled to prevent driverís-license fraud but that increasingly are used by police to identify suspects, accomplices and even innocent bystanders in a wide range of criminal investigations.

...

But law enforcement use of such facial searches is blurring the traditional boundaries between criminal and non-criminal databases, putting images of people never arrested in what amount to perpetual digital lineups. The most advanced systems allow police to run searches from laptop computers in their patrol cars and offer access to the FBI and other federal authorities.
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hepcat
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« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2013, 02:47:10 PM »

When I walk into a government run institution and have my picture taken as part of a process that allows me to operate a vehicle within the public domain, I'm not sure why I would expect that photo to be relegated to an Indiana Jones style warehouse hidden somewhere in a remote location.

I'm honestly surprised sometimes at the men in black style conspiracy theories that evolve out of revelations that our government maintains information on its citizens...especially since that has been the paradigm for a very, very long time.  The only difference now is that they have the technology to be better at it.  

Of course we should be vigilant and express concerns, but we also need to temper that vigilance with the knowledge that not every move by the government is Orwellian in nature.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 02:53:25 PM by hepcat » Logged

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msduncan
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« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2013, 03:33:40 AM »



I'm not really outraged by this, nor very concerned.

I'm more bothered by NSA blanket surveillance of Americans than I am this.
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Razgon
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« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2013, 10:26:12 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on June 23, 2013, 03:33:40 AM



I'm not really outraged by this, nor very concerned.

I'm more bothered by NSA blanket surveillance of Americans than I am this.

Hi! You are not alone in that concern.

Yours
- The Old World.
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hepcat
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« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2013, 04:28:22 PM »

Hopefully "The Old World" doesn't include Great Britain.

I'm not condoning the privacy violations, but if anyone thinks they live in a country that isn't responsible in its own way for some pretty scary privacy violation tactics, you're living in denial.
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« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2013, 04:58:34 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on June 24, 2013, 04:28:22 PM

Hopefully "The Old World" doesn't include Great Britain.

I'm not condoning the privacy violations, but if anyone thinks they live in a country that isn't responsible in its own way for some pretty scary privacy violation tactics, you're living in denial.

I agree 100%.  This is a by product of security.  But..there have to be limits.  I personally think DNA swabs are beyond what is necessary to keep us secure.

TSA lines I don't mind, but I think DNA swabs are too far...especially since we don't really know what can be done with it.

And I'm not going to play armchair policy expert, but the book The New Jim Crow is really terrifying irrespective of race.  Just the blanket authority our system has to do whatever it wants to its citizens is horrifying...
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Razgon
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« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2013, 04:59:44 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on June 24, 2013, 04:28:22 PM

Hopefully "The Old World" doesn't include Great Britain.

I'm not condoning the privacy violations, but if anyone thinks they live in a country that isn't responsible in its own way for some pretty scary privacy violation tactics, you're living in denial.

No, just no - That kind of thing is firing grounds and impeachment grounds here in Denmark - hell,  our previous treasury department minister is currently being investigated for taking a personal interest in  a tax case, which is a big no no. We keep a strict eye on these things.

Contrary to what seems to be the norm in the US, we hold our politicians and elected officials accountable.
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hepcat
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« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2013, 05:05:55 PM »

We thought the same thing too for quite some time.  So did a lot of people in England.

Don't be surprised when your own Snowden pulls the curtain back and shows you the wizard.

(and no, that's not a euphemism and it's not a veiled reference to the Catholic church)

p.s. a quick google check shows me that quite some time ago, your government was proposing (or at least backing) some pretty scary surveillance measures themselves.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 05:12:43 PM by hepcat » Logged

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Razgon
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« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2013, 05:24:12 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on June 24, 2013, 05:05:55 PM

We thought the same thing too for quite some time.  So did a lot of people in England.

Don't be surprised when your own Snowden pulls the curtain back and shows you the wizard.

(and no, that's not a euphemism and it's not a veiled reference to the Catholic church)

p.s. a quick google check shows me that quite some time ago, your government was proposing (or at least backing) some pretty scary surveillance measures themselves.

It would never have been passed.
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hepcat
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« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2013, 05:38:00 PM »

The United States and Britain believed that too.

Look, I know you'd like to believe your government doesn't do this kind of thing, but the fact that they WANTED to do this kind of thing (as evidenced by the article I linked to) should tell you something.  

By the way, did you know your country will sometimes arrest people they suspect MIGHT commit a crime in the future?  Was Minority Report considered a documentary in Denmark?   icon_wink
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 05:44:51 PM by hepcat » Logged

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Razgon
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« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2013, 07:47:10 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on June 24, 2013, 05:38:00 PM

The United States and Britain believed that too.

Look, I know you'd like to believe your government doesn't do this kind of thing, but the fact that they WANTED to do this kind of thing (as evidenced by the article I linked to) should tell you something.  

By the way, did you know your country will sometimes arrest people they suspect MIGHT commit a crime in the future?  Was Minority Report considered a documentary in Denmark?   icon_wink

What on Earth does that have to do with privacy issues and the government doing things without the knowledge of the people that elected them? Absolutely nothing. 

The incident itself you refer to has also been up in the courts afterwards, afterwards.

Again, the article you mention is about a law that that never did happen. We dont decide to kill people either without a court either, or perhaps you don't believe that either? I realize most americans are brought up under the premise that their country is the greatest in the world, but sometimes its okay to realize that not every country does the same thing as the US does.
Its fine if you don't believe, but instead of googling like mad, trying to find some dirt , perhaps reflect a bit upon that maybe its not *supposed* to be like that.
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hepcat
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« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2013, 08:59:21 PM »

I didn't really have to google all that much to find dirt, I'm sorry to say.  It took maybe three clicks to find both of those incidents.  

I just get tired of the hypocrisy I sometimes see from those living outside America. 

I put those links out there as evidence that ALL governments have the potential to do what the NSA has done (which is trample on the rights of individuals in the name of national security).  And in the case of England, can even surpass the level at which the NSA took it.  

Does it make it right, no.  But you did make a rather sanctimonious post earlier, as well as some equally self-righteous ones in the post immediately before this reply.  If you're going to do so, try not to get so upset when others point out that you're doing so from a glass house in many cases. Your country has done (or has tried to do) some pretty fucked up things too, as those articles I've linked to prove.


Sincerely,

The New World
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 09:03:24 PM by hepcat » Logged

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« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2013, 06:38:21 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on June 24, 2013, 08:59:21 PM

I didn't really have to google all that much to find dirt, I'm sorry to say.  It took maybe three clicks to find both of those incidents.  

I just get tired of the hypocrisy I sometimes see from those living outside America. 

I put those links out there as evidence that ALL governments have the potential to do what the NSA has done (which is trample on the rights of individuals in the name of national security).  And in the case of England, can even surpass the level at which the NSA took it.  

Does it make it right, no.  But you did make a rather sanctimonious post earlier, as well as some equally self-righteous ones in the post immediately before this reply.  If you're going to do so, try not to get so upset when others point out that you're doing so from a glass house in many cases. Your country has done (or has tried to do) some pretty fucked up things too, as those articles I've linked to prove.


Sincerely,

The New World


Actually, the articles you linked does not prove that, but I do know the futility in continuing this argument, especially since, as you state, I did not start out quite well myself in my posts - I'll let this topic be for now, especially since its off-topic. *ducks a drone and arrests HepC pre-emtively*
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