Sequestration

[Gratch]

Oh snap, the monkeys have thrown down the gauntlet and began the usual school boy insults.  

Need I remind you this started with - and I quote - "you all are simply low information monkeys in a cage"?  Seems a little silly to complain about school boy insults when you started the whole damn thing.  But I suppose that's your usual MO, so keep on truckin'.

Back on topic, I find Paul Ryan's quote about his proposed budget hilarious.  "This is something we will not give up on because we are not going to give up on destroying the health care system for the American people.".  Unintended gaffe or a rare moment of truth from the GOP's policy wonk?

[raydude]

See though, the difference between us is that if things ever got really bad i would take a second job before milking the bloated entitlement system.  Hep on the other hand would be first in line for an Obama phone I'm certain.

Dude, there are folks who are amazingly embarrassed about having to ask for help, and they feel like such losers because they are in a tough spot and cannot get back on their feet on their own. Don't you dare make a mockery of those people just because you are all high and mighty in your ability to find work. I say this because Karma has a way of biting people in the ass.

[Fireball1244]

See though, the difference between us is that if things ever got really bad i would take a second job before milking the bloated entitlement system.  Hep on the other hand would be first in line for an Obama phone I'm certain.

Dude, there are folks who are amazingly embarrassed about having to ask for help, and they feel like such losers because they are in a tough spot and cannot get back on their feet on their own. Don't you dare make a mockery of those people just because you are all high and mighty in your ability to find work. I say this because Karma has a way of biting people in the ass.

This times 1,000.

Also, those who fall down on their luck, realize they can't get out of their situation on their own, swallow their pride and ask for help that eventually gets them back on their feet and being productive again *are* being responsible. Sometimes the most responsible thing you can say is "I can't do this on my own."

[Gratch]

See though, the difference between us is that if things ever got really bad i would take a second job before milking the bloated entitlement system.  Hep on the other hand would be first in line for an Obama phone I'm certain.

Dude, there are folks who are amazingly embarrassed about having to ask for help, and they feel like such losers because they are in a tough spot and cannot get back on their feet on their own. Don't you dare make a mockery of those people just because you are all high and mighty in your ability to find work. I say this because Karma has a way of biting people in the ass.

This times 1,000.

Also, those who fall down on their luck, realize they can't get out of their situation on their own, swallow their pride and ask for help that eventually gets them back on their feet and being productive again *are* being responsible. Sometimes the most responsible thing you can say is "I can't do this on my own."

Whatever.  They're all welfare queens mooching off the system. (am I doing that right?)

I've been fortunate enough in my life and career to never have had to use the social safety net.  However, I'm awfully glad it's there in case something happens and I have no problem paying into a system which will help others get back on their feet or get through a difficult time.  Seems to me that's part of the social contract for living in an advanced, civilized society...we at least make an attempt at taking care of our own when they're down.

Yes, there absolutely needs to be reform to address those who abuse it.   But to completely gut it (as the GOP constantly proposes) and simply leave everyone to fend for themselves is a ridiculous and dangerous notion.

There...is my heart bloody enough for you?

[USMC Kato]

I was on food stamps the first two years I was in the military.  Being a private, moving around every few months, it was hard for my wife to pull down a job.  I found it humiliating using them, but hey I needed it.  Hello my name is Kato and I'm a moocher.

[gellar]

I was on food stamps the first two years I was in the military.  Being a private, moving around every few months, it was hard for my wife to pull down a job.  I found it humiliating using them, but hey I needed it.  Hello my name is Kato and I'm a moocher.

Freedom isn't free, Kato.  Apparently not even for those who are fighting for it.

Thank you for your service.

[Gratch]

I was on food stamps the first two years I was in the military.  Being a private, moving around every few months, it was hard for my wife to pull down a job.  I found it humiliating using them, but hey I needed it.  Hello my name is Kato and I'm a moocher.

Freedom isn't free, Kato.  Apparently not even for those who are fighting for it.

Thank you for your service.

Hear, hear.

Maybe I'm veering too far off-topic and this needs to be another thread, but I thought I'd make an observation about the government.  I have a somewhat unique perspective, as all the clients I work with are executive level leadership in their respective agencies.  They're the equivalent of C-suite leadership in the private sector (mainly SES'ers, some GS15 & 14's).  The one common thread that I've heard repeated over and over again is the intense frustration with the current political environment.  Agency leaders stand by and watch the politicians lurch from budget crisis to budget crisis, and they try to make the best with what is left over once the smoke clears.  They have no idea of the budget they have to work with, receive congressional priorities that are either completely vague or shift on a day-to-day basis, and have no way to translate any of the these vague goals into measurable success.  When they actually do receive a budget, the process is set up so they are required to spend all the money they get in order to even have a chance at receiving an equivalent amount the following year.  This is where you see the majority of the waste...throwing out money at year-end so the appropriation amount doesn't get decreased.

They are scrutinized to the Nth degree, often crucified by half the politicians for simply doing their jobs, given very little (if any) opportunity to actually develop their people so they can be better at their jobs, and vilified by the public simply for being public sector employees.  

I'm not trying to "woe is me" federal employees here, but they are operating in an environment where they have zero chance to succeed.  None.  Frankly, I'm shocked the government functions as well as it does in the current environment.  If the government budgeting process were even remotely stable for a few years, I have no doubt that we'd see exponential growth in the effectiveness of federal agencies. As it is, however, we're going to continue to see a decline in services simply due to the ridiculous nature of politics.

I'll get off my soap box now.

[gellar]

I actually struggle with this particular topic (though it's somewhat off topic for this thread and we should perhaps continue elsewhere).

On the one hand, I believe very much in a free market for goods AND services (including employable persons) and that fundamentally, we are all paid what we are worth simply because we accept that payment for our services.  I also have trouble with what seems to be a broken welfare system.  I also pay more in taxes a year than the average american household makes and I know that shit isn't being spent well.  This all bothers me.

On the other, my immediate family was a recipient of said welfare system for a few years when I was growing up.  Kato's story along with dozens of other personal stories (including my own) show that it's necessary.  ALL children MUST HAVE a standard of living in order to further our society.

There must be some middle ground here.

[Eco-Logic]

Believe what you like, but I completely agree with you Gellar. The problem is nothing ever changes and our children continue to be robbed from, and the taxes we pay continue to be blown.



Kind of makes you think.

[hepcat]

It's not like we got involved in a war or experienced a housing market crisis or anything.  Hey, when did those things happen?  I can't remember...

p.s. more than a few of those numbers can be directly attributed to the country experiencing an upswing thanks to Bush about to leave office.  Check the figures a bit further back and you'll see some rather interesting numbers. 

[Gratch]

Kind of makes you think.

It certainly does.  Makes me think of the ongoing wars and massive economic crises that have occurred since 2007.

It also makes me think how much different these numbers would be if both sides of the aisle would actually work towards a compromise rather than continuing to govern through a series of rolling crises and hardline, non-negotiable ultimatums.

BTW, the debt rating downgrade comes as a direct result of the GOP's "let's hold a gun to our own economy's head" bullshit last year.  Which lead directly to the current sequestration bullshit.  Which will lead into the CRA bullshit at the end of this month.  Which I'm sure will lead to another pile of bullshit shortly.

And the cycle of ongoing bullshit continues...

EDIT:  Hep beat me to it.

[hepcat]

I'm also pretty sure after reading eco's post above that he's not quite sure what "completely" actually means.   

[gellar]

I'm also pretty sure after reading eco's post above that he's not quite sure what "completely" actually means.   

Gonna have to agree here.  The reason 'nothing ever changes' is that that the entire populace of this country is too caught up in OMGPROBLEMZEVERYTHINGSUCKS rather than coming up with rational solutions.  'CUT SPENDING' is not a rational solution for any person of even moderate intelligence.  It's just as good as 'MAKE MOAR MONEY.'

This country needs plans, not postures.  Our politicians and the bases they serve are really only interested in the latter.  THAT is the problem.

Oh my plan?  Do not allow anyone registered Democrat or Republican to vote or run for office.  Problem solved.

[gellar]

BTW I am completely baffled at some of the items included and some exclusions on that graphic.

Included WTFs: Gas prices, NYSE Volume?!?!, Price of Gold and Silver.
Excluded WTFs:  Dow Index, NASDAQ Index, ANY FUCKING INDEX AT ALL, Housing Prices, Federal Tax Income.

[Gratch]

I'm also pretty sure after reading eco's post above that he's not quite sure what "completely" actually means.   

Gonna have to agree here.  The reason 'nothing ever changes' is that that the entire populace of this country is too caught up in OMGPROBLEMZEVERYTHINGSUCKS rather than coming up with rational solutions.  'CUT SPENDING' is not a rational solution for any person of even moderate intelligence.  It's just as good as 'MAKE MOAR MONEY.'

This country needs plans, not postures.  Our politicians and the bases they serve are really only interested in the latter.  THAT is the problem.

This may be the best summary of the situation I've read so far.  Nice work gellar.

[gellar]

I'm also pretty sure after reading eco's post above that he's not quite sure what "completely" actually means.   

Gonna have to agree here.  The reason 'nothing ever changes' is that that the entire populace of this country is too caught up in OMGPROBLEMZEVERYTHINGSUCKS rather than coming up with rational solutions.  'CUT SPENDING' is not a rational solution for any person of even moderate intelligence.  It's just as good as 'MAKE MOAR MONEY.'

This country needs plans, not postures.  Our politicians and the bases they serve are really only interested in the latter.  THAT is the problem.

This may be the best summary of the situation I've read so far.  Nice work gellar.

EVERY. MEASURABLE. WAY.

[hepcat]

[ATB]

I'm also pretty sure after reading eco's post above that he's not quite sure what "completely" actually means.   

Gonna have to agree here.  The reason 'nothing ever changes' is that that the entire populace of this country is too caught up in OMGPROBLEMZEVERYTHINGSUCKS rather than coming up with rational solutions.  'CUT SPENDING' is not a rational solution for any person of even moderate intelligence.  It's just as good as 'MAKE MOAR MONEY.'

This country needs plans, not postures.  Our politicians and the bases they serve are really only interested in the latter.  THAT is the problem.

This may be the best summary of the situation I've read so far.  Nice work gellar.

EVERY. MEASURABLE. WAY.

You're really not that great of a dresser.  Sorry to break it to you.

[gellar]

I'm also pretty sure after reading eco's post above that he's not quite sure what "completely" actually means.   

Gonna have to agree here.  The reason 'nothing ever changes' is that that the entire populace of this country is too caught up in OMGPROBLEMZEVERYTHINGSUCKS rather than coming up with rational solutions.  'CUT SPENDING' is not a rational solution for any person of even moderate intelligence.  It's just as good as 'MAKE MOAR MONEY.'

This country needs plans, not postures.  Our politicians and the bases they serve are really only interested in the latter.  THAT is the problem.

This may be the best summary of the situation I've read so far.  Nice work gellar.

EVERY. MEASURABLE. WAY.

You're really not that great of a dresser.  Sorry to break it to you.

I mean first of all that's subjective and not measurable, but secondly: you are incorrect.

[Eco-Logic]

http://abcnews.go.com/politics/t/blogEntry?id=18717882

[hepcat]

We both were complaining earlier that he was being too much of an alarmist.  Now that he's stopped doing that, you're STILL saying he's wrong.  What's the guy gotta do?  Not ask for extra mild sauce when he drives through on your shift???

[Moliere]

We both were complaining earlier that he was being too much of an alarmist.  Now that he's stopped doing that, you're STILL saying he's wrong. 

Aren't you talking about two different things? Obama was running around screaming the end of the world if the Sequestration happened and the budget was cut by 2%. Weeks later and the zombies have yet to emerge. However, adding more than a trillion dollars a year to the debt, well, some might call that irresponsible and unpatriotic.

[Captain Caveman]

I'm too lazy to check, but I assume Obama's point is that immediate austerity measures are a myopic response to the debt, and may even exacerbate it in the long run by further weakening the fragile economy. A more prudent solution to the long-term debt problem is to focus in the here and now on economic recovery, which sequestration and other reactionary spending cuts could damage. A bolstered economy would then generate more revenue for addressing the deficit, at which point revamping the entitlement programs and otherwise reducing spending could be accommodated without the same level of economic damage. So yeah, the debt is a serious issue, but focusing exclusively on it in the short-term may be counter-productive.

[Isgrimnur]

You mean governing by soundbites might not be a viable long-term strategy?  I'm shocked.  In other news, unemployment dropped from 7.9% in January to 7.7% in February.

[Captain Caveman]

You mean governing by soundbites might not be a viable long-term strategy?  I'm shocked. 

I dunno. Sounds pretty catchy to me:

[Isgrimnur]

Nicely done.

[CeeKay]

but those are just words... and words are like things man..... THINGS!!!! things that can be trumped by... PIRATE TACO!!!

[Gratch]

http://abcnews.go.com/politics/t/blogEntry?id=18717882

Paul Ryan (today):  "The US Doesn't have a debt crisis yet"

I suppose you're equally incensed at Ryan now, right Eco?

[Ironrod]

there are potential sticking points, including Ryan's proposed $4.5 trillion in tax cuts

Good lord. Did those people learn nothing from the '00s?

[Isgrimnur]

Paul Ryan (today):  "The US Doesn't have a debt crisis yet"

I suppose you're equally incensed at Ryan now, right Eco?

Don't forget House Speaker John Boehner:

The country isn’t facing an immediate debt crisis, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said Sunday, but he argued that Congress and the president must reform entitlements to avert one that lies dead ahead.
...
Boehner expressed agreement with Obama's statement in an ABC interview the other day that the debt doesn't present "an immediate crisis."

[Eco-Logic]

Ryan also said "We're the healthiest horse in the glue factory", which I would argue is correct.  He is dead wrong about the US not being in a debt crisis though.  Just as Obama is dead wrong.

If we were not able to print our own currency the severity of the problem would be a lot worse.  However, that also allows the weasels in DC to continue kicking the can down the road, thus adding to the problem. 


I saw this on twitter today and had to share.  Pretty close resemblance!

[Gratch]

OMGKENYANMUSIMSATAN!!!

[CeeKay]

they totally got Satan wrong:

Spoiler for Hiden:

[hepcat]

I saw this on twitter today and had to share.  Pretty close resemblance!

I'm guessing to you and folks that believe that, Obama's "people" all look alike.

[Eco-Logic]

Haha ck, made me laugh for possibly the first time in all your 62k posts.

Despite the fact he has been an awful president, I do not think he is actually Satan.

Everyone has to agree with the resemblance though, unless of course your vision is like your understanding of basic math

[hepcat]

I thought you said you saw the resemblance though?   

[Eco-Logic]

Anyone with eyes can see the resemblance...

Anyone watching the show?  We plan to this summer when everything else is off.

[raydude]

Anyone with eyes can see the resemblance...

It's called makeup. Most actors use it when playing a role.

[Gratch]

Now that it's had some time to fester (for lack of a better term), has there been a real sequester impact, or was Obama crying wolf?

[hepcat]

The analysts I've seen referred to have almost unanimously said that we won't feel anything for a while yet...but that when we do it may be a rude awakening. 

Whether or not that means Obama was playing the panic card too liberally, I can't say.