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Author Topic: Scott Mclellan turns snitch  (Read 4955 times)
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PR_GMR
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« on: May 28, 2008, 03:19:34 PM »

Ex-Bush Press Secretary turns on his former employers, and the revelations are telling:

Quote
But in a chapter titled "Selling the War," he alleges that the administration repeatedly shaded the truth and that Bush "managed the crisis in a way that almost guaranteed that the use of force would become the only feasible option."

"Over that summer of 2002," he writes, "top Bush aides had outlined a strategy for carefully orchestrating the coming campaign to aggressively sell the war. . . . In the permanent campaign era, it was all about manipulating sources of public opinion to the president's advantage."

McClellan, once a staunch defender of the war from the podium, comes to a stark conclusion, writing, "What I do know is that war should only be waged when necessary, and the Iraq war was not necessary."

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Dan_Theman
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2008, 04:33:59 PM »

The most interesting quote to me was how the administration governed in "campaign mode."  I like that line, as I'd been looking for the proper way to describe it.
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McBa1n
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2008, 05:46:05 PM »

For the 1000000th time... How many of these toolsheds are going to keep their mouths shut until they leave - and then write a book. As far as I'm concerned, I hope the book doesn't sell. Telling the truth when it's pertinent is 100x more important than squaring up the record when your word means nothing, obviously.

What a coward.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2008, 06:10:14 PM »

Quote from: McBa1n on May 28, 2008, 05:46:05 PM

For the 1000000th time... How many of these toolsheds are going to keep their mouths shut until they leave - and then write a book. As far as I'm concerned, I hope the book doesn't sell. Telling the truth when it's pertinent is 100x more important than squaring up the record when your word means nothing, obviously.

What a coward.
Wow... I didn't think of it like that, and you're 100% right. He gets rich AND he didn't have to stick his neck out when it mattered.
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deadzone
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2008, 06:16:23 PM »

It's pretty interesting and entertaining to see these people turn on each other now.  It doesn't surprise me a bit to see them do it the easy way either. 
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 06:39:34 PM »

Quote from: McBa1n on May 28, 2008, 05:46:05 PM

For the 1000000th time... How many of these toolsheds are going to keep their mouths shut until they leave - and then write a book. As far as I'm concerned, I hope the book doesn't sell. Telling the truth when it's pertinent is 100x more important than squaring up the record when your word means nothing, obviously.

What a coward.

When I read that quote, that's precisely what I was thinking.  He supported the war to keep his job and only now shows ethical concerns about it.

He's a scumbag all the way around.
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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 07:45:29 PM »

Unless he's willing to stand as a witness to the tribunal that holds Bush & Co. for treason.

Then he's absolved of any wrongdoing.

Until then all he's doing is pissing upstream and then 6 years later coming downstream and telling people not to drink the water.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2008, 11:13:53 PM »

Quote from: McBa1n
For the 1000000th time... How many of these toolsheds are going to keep their mouths shut until they leave - and then write a book. As far as I'm concerned, I hope the book doesn't sell. Telling the truth when it's pertinent is 100x more important than squaring up the record when your word means nothing, obviously.

What a coward.

I agree completely: this book says very little about the Bush administration -- nothing we didn't already know or had surmised, anyhow -- but reveals a great deal about McClellan's character.  This guy embraced his opportunity to be be the spokesman and public face for this gaggle of crooks and liars, had nothing but praise for them through to the end of his tenure, and decides to "come clean" in a conviently priced book released during a hotly contested political campaign.

Some people tried to say the same thing against Richard Clarke when he released his book early in the 2004 campaign.  The difference in my mind is that Clarke had a lot to say about the efforts he'd been making while on the job to solve things from the inside, and was stridently warning people of the dangers of re-electing those same people.  McClellan has no such defense: the Bush administration is on its way out, and he was perfectly content to tow their company line until it became financially attractive to do the exact opposite.

-Autistic Angel
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Exodor
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2008, 05:51:52 PM »

Quote from: ATB on May 28, 2008, 06:39:34 PM

Quote from: McBa1n on May 28, 2008, 05:46:05 PM

For the 1000000th time... How many of these toolsheds are going to keep their mouths shut until they leave - and then write a book. As far as I'm concerned, I hope the book doesn't sell. Telling the truth when it's pertinent is 100x more important than squaring up the record when your word means nothing, obviously.

What a coward.

When I read that quote, that's precisely what I was thinking.  He supported the war to keep his job and only now shows ethical concerns about it.

He's a scumbag all the way around.

What is the role of a Press Secretary?

His job was not to provide input into the decision-making.  His job was to parrot the company line to the White House press corps.  And he was pretty terrible at his job - he was no Ari.   

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McBa1n
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2008, 07:30:52 PM »

I saw McLellan on Olberman's show yesterday (they gave him almost the entire show)... Really good interview. I have to give him credit, though, for answering questions pretty straight up for the first time in god knows how long. Obviously a press secretary doesn't know all that much as most people in a President's senior staff - I think it was pretty bold of him to say 'yes, I lied' (of course he believed he was telling the truth at first).

I think over time this book will be pretty important in historical terms. It would be more important if it came from Bush's White House Counsil, ala Nixon - but it's clear to see that the public group-think really is a lot of people fed up with W and not so much 'group think' in response to the lies, bombast, politics and war crimes.

One thing that's important to note, though, in the interview, is McLellan seemed awkward toward Olberman's question about 'saying these things when you were working for the President'... McLellan played it down a lot, but you could see in his eyes that he was pretty scared and known he would've been blackballed like he will be now - without the prospect of a big payday. It's also interesting to see how long it took even people that voted for Bush (and worked for him) to shake off the 'spin' and get grounded in reality out of their belief that W would actually try to unite both parties like he did in Texas. It blows my mind that Bush got a 2nd term (let alone stole the first term - that should've been a signal as to what was to come).

While most of what McLellan said in the interview are things we've all known for awhile, it is pretty damning coming from Senior Staff.
He still doesn't get a pass for writing the book now - being blind for that long is pretty inexcusable - and god help those that still believe the crap we're fed.
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cheeba
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2008, 07:36:21 PM »

Quote from: McBa1n on May 30, 2008, 07:30:52 PM

(let alone stole the first term)
Why do you people always insist on saying this kind of thing? It ruins any and all credibility you might have otherwise had.
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davidf
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2008, 07:56:38 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on May 30, 2008, 07:36:21 PM

Quote from: McBa1n on May 30, 2008, 07:30:52 PM

(let alone stole the first term)
Why do you people always insist on saying this kind of thing? It ruins any and all credibility you might have otherwise had.

Does it? The 2000 election was highly contested and while unproven, the accusations were clearly not unsubstantiated that partisan and biasness played a role in the outcome. That people are still obviously upset about the implied (but not proven) underhanded nature of resolving the dispute, and it speaks volumes to the unproven but excepted behavior itís been displaying over the last 8 years.
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Jeff
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2008, 10:04:34 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on May 30, 2008, 07:36:21 PM

Quote from: McBa1n on May 30, 2008, 07:30:52 PM

(let alone stole the first term)
Why do you people always insist on saying this kind of thing? It ruins any and all credibility you might have otherwise had.

Yeah, kind of like your credibility when you assert Bush is "doing a good job", and that the Iraq war was/is a good idea.

Quote
and god help those that still believe the crap we're fed.

*cough*cheeba*cough*
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helot2000
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2008, 10:14:12 PM »

Mr. McClellan, would you care for an overly large slice of humble pie? 

Quote from: 2004 Scott McClellan
In 2004, McClellan said Richard Clarke's book, asserting the Bush administration failed to take timely action against al Qaeda, was "flat-out wrong." He told reporters at a March 22, 2004 briefing, "Ask yourself why, one and a half years later, after he left the administration, he's all of a sudden, coming forward with these grave concerns? If he had such grave concerns, why didn't he come out with them sooner?"

Quote from: 2008 Scott McClellan
In an encounter last night in the lobby of a New York hotel, former White House press secretary Scott McClellan apologized for denouncing a former White House colleague, Richard Clarke, the former counterterrorism adviser, after Clarke wrote a book highly critical of the Bush administration in 2004.  Now McClellan is facing a similar denunciation from the White House for his own highly critical book.

"I should have known how personal it would get when they went after me, well, I mean, after what I said about you," Clarke says McClellan told him in the lobby of New York's Essex House.

"I think I can forgive you now," Clarke says he replied.

"I'd like to ask you to," McClellan reportedly answered.
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cheeba
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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2008, 10:56:32 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on May 30, 2008, 10:04:34 PM

Yeah, kind of like your credibility when you assert Bush is "doing a good job", and that the Iraq war was/is a good idea.
Or yours when you call anyone who disagrees with you an idiot.
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McBa1n
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« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2008, 11:10:04 PM »

Well, maybe Bush didn't steal the presidency HIMSELF, but his operatives certainly did - and the Supreme Court did help his situation. I say he 'stole' it because the votes weren't all 'officially' re-counted in Florida - and in large part to lots of manuevering. We'll never know the true result, but whether he actually won Florida is in question and will always be... I don't know how those facts make someone 'uncredible', but oh well heh. Facts are facts.
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2008, 12:36:31 AM »

hmmm....I hope he does testify before congress....it is a little late to impeach Bush but if any of the claims are true I am sure there will be the temptation to try...No matter what happens I still think the Pres will go down in history as one of the worst, if not the worst, administrations in American history.  (Carter was no genius but he still isn't anywhere close to the retarded level of this president.)
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Jeff
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2008, 03:16:03 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on May 30, 2008, 10:56:32 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on May 30, 2008, 10:04:34 PM

Yeah, kind of like your credibility when you assert Bush is "doing a good job", and that the Iraq war was/is a good idea.
Or yours when you call anyone who disagrees with you an idiot.

I'd like you to cite any post where I've called anyone an idiot. Well, anyone besides Bush.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2008, 02:09:26 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on May 31, 2008, 03:16:03 AM

Quote from: cheeba on May 30, 2008, 10:56:32 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on May 30, 2008, 10:04:34 PM

Yeah, kind of like your credibility when you assert Bush is "doing a good job", and that the Iraq war was/is a good idea.
Or yours when you call anyone who disagrees with you an idiot.

I'd like you to cite any post where I've called anyone an idiot. Well, anyone besides Bush.

I notice that in the last three days, cheeba has found time to post here and here, but apparently hasn't considered it a high priority to back up his accusation.  This is probably because, assuming he took a few moments to run a search, he discovered that his attack was completely baseless and decided to avoid a simple apology by going for a quiet exit.

It's actually pretty reminiscent of the Bush administration's response to the McClellan book: they don't seem to be spending any time at all refuting the substance of what he says, but a great deal of energy complaining about *how* he's saying it.  I wonder if that sort of tacit admission of guilt really slips by the average American these days.

-Autistic Angel
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cheeba
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« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2008, 02:47:49 PM »

Give me a bit.

And no, autistic, I've not found it a high enough priority. It's a little bitch fest back and forth (on both our parts), and I didn't think it required any more input.
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« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2008, 03:06:35 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on June 02, 2008, 02:09:26 PM

It's actually pretty reminiscent of the Bush administration's response to the McClellan book: they don't seem to be spending any time at all refuting the substance of what he says, but a great deal of energy complaining about *how* he's saying it.  I wonder if that sort of tacit admission of guilt really slips by the average American these days.

My impression is that there's a general scandal fatigue - who the hell can keep up with the incompetence and malfeasance anymore?  If we applied the archetypal conservative standard of "Clinton had an affair!" you'd think the Siegelman case alone would pull down this administration.  Unfortunately, with the DOJ refusing to enforce congressional subpeonas, everything's dead in the water until a less partisan administration is elected.  Identification with the republican party has plummeted, and I'm sure it's at least partially attributable to the weight of the corruption and scandal associated with them.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 03:10:43 PM by Brendan » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2008, 03:16:08 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on May 31, 2008, 03:16:03 AM

Quote from: cheeba on May 30, 2008, 10:56:32 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on May 30, 2008, 10:04:34 PM

Yeah, kind of like your credibility when you assert Bush is "doing a good job", and that the Iraq war was/is a good idea.
Or yours when you call anyone who disagrees with you an idiot.

I'd like you to cite any post where I've called anyone an idiot. Well, anyone besides Bush.

You haven't called anyone an idiot - even Bush.  That actually hurts your liberal hyena credentials...
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cheeba
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« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2008, 04:21:15 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on May 08, 2008, 02:48:26 PM

Probably the same group of idjits that think Bush is doing "a good job".
So it's "idjits" and not "idiots"... my bad.
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Brendan
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« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2008, 04:24:00 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 02, 2008, 04:21:15 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on May 08, 2008, 02:48:26 PM

Probably the same group of idjits that think Bush is doing "a good job".
So it's "idjits" and not "idiots"... my bad.

There is a significant qualitative difference between "calling anyone who disagrees with you an idiot" and observing that people who listen to Rush Limbaugh are idiots.
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cheeba
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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2008, 04:35:13 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 02, 2008, 04:24:00 PM

There is a significant qualitative difference between "calling anyone who disagrees with you an idiot" and observing that people who listen to Rush Limbaugh are idiots.
Wow. The guy who has made it his mission in life to personally insult me every chance he gets in this forum is defending someone calling people idiots? Who'd have thunk it?! You've no authority or basis for opinion in this matter, Brendan. Move along.

Jeff's comment came not long after he had expressed shock and awe at me saying Bush was doing a fine job. So it's probable that his statement was at the very least indirectly pointed at me.

Now how about we get back to the topic at hand rather than clogging up the forum with this stupid shit again?
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Brendan
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« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2008, 04:39:45 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 02, 2008, 04:35:13 PM

Jeff's comment came not long after he had expressed shock and awe at me saying Bush was doing a fine job. So it's probable that his statement was at the very least indirectly pointed at me.

You're the one freaking out here, champ.  No one's personally insulted you in this thread.

Anyway, AA's totally right - I spent some time combing the media from the last few days, and there've been no denials about the content of McClellan's claims - just "shock" that Scotty's jumped ship.  I certainly hope we get a real AG under Obama.
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cheeba
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2008, 04:53:03 PM »

The book isn't even out yet. Of course the administration isn't going to deny anything yet. Even when it comes out it's unlikely they'll devote their time to answering the allegations of some guy who decided the administration was really bad only after he was away from it and able to profit from such allegations.
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Jeff
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« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2008, 04:57:12 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 02, 2008, 04:21:15 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on May 08, 2008, 02:48:26 PM

Probably the same group of idjits that think Bush is doing "a good job".
So it's "idjits" and not "idiots"... my bad.

Actually that quote was me referring to the 20% of Americans that think that Bush is doing a good job. I used "idjits" in a tongue-in-cheek manner, but hey, if the shoe fits ... I mean, Bush is pretty much objectively not doing a good job. He's being considered by mainstream media and many Americans to be in the running for the worst president in history, and if McClellan's word is true, he may even be considered something much worse, a criminal.

There are plenty of people whom I disagree with that I don't think are idiots, so your statement is false.
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« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2008, 05:06:57 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 02, 2008, 04:53:03 PM

The book isn't even out yet. Of course the administration isn't going to deny anything yet. Even when it comes out it's unlikely they'll devote their time to answering the allegations of some guy who decided the administration was really bad only after he was away from it and able to profit from such allegations.

Like any book put out by an administration insider, they've read it and approved the contents for publication.
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cheeba
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« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2008, 07:02:12 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on June 02, 2008, 04:57:12 PM

Actually that quote was me referring to the 20% of Americans that think that Bush is doing a good job.
Of which I am one, which you clearly knew when we had our little argument before.
Quote
I used "idjits" in a tongue-in-cheek manner, but hey, if the shoe fits ... I mean, Bush is pretty much objectively not doing a good job.
Point proven, thank you.
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Jeff
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« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2008, 07:09:28 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 02, 2008, 07:02:12 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on June 02, 2008, 04:57:12 PM

Actually that quote was me referring to the 20% of Americans that think that Bush is doing a good job.
Of which I am one, which you clearly knew when we had our little argument before.
Quote
I used "idjits" in a tongue-in-cheek manner, but hey, if the shoe fits ... I mean, Bush is pretty much objectively not doing a good job.
Point proven, thank you.

No, point not proven, sir. Your claim was that I think everyone who disagrees with me was in idiot.

You're just one person.
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cheeba
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« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2008, 07:14:18 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on June 02, 2008, 07:09:28 PM

No, point not proven, sir. Your claim was that I think everyone who disagrees with me was in idiot.

You're just one person.
Roll Eyes

Too obvious and obnoxious to be clever.
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Jeff
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« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2008, 07:18:10 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 02, 2008, 07:14:18 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on June 02, 2008, 07:09:28 PM

No, point not proven, sir. Your claim was that I think everyone who disagrees with me was in idiot.

You're just one person.
Roll Eyes

Too obvious and obnoxious to be clever.

Sorry, no pearls before swine, mate.
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« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2008, 08:40:32 PM »

In other book news, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez just released his own book, and had more to say about El Presidente's "confused" command style:

Quote
Getting lost in the media furor over McClellan's memoir is the new autobiography of retired Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, the onetime commander of U.S. troops in Iraq, who is scathing in his assessment that the Bush administration "led America into a strategic blunder of historic proportions."

Among the anecdotes in "Wiser in Battle: A Soldier's Story" is an arresting portrait of Bush after four contractors were killed in Fallujah in 2004, triggering a fierce U.S. response that was reportedly egged on by the president.

During a videoconference with his national security team and generals, Sanchez writes, Bush launched into what he described as a "confused" pep talk:

"Kick ass!" he quotes the president as saying. "If somebody tries to stop the march to democracy, we will seek them out and kill them! We must be tougher than hell! This Vietnam stuff, this is not even close. It is a mind-set. We can't send that message. It's an excuse to prepare us for withdrawal."

"There is a series of moments and this is one of them. Our will is being tested, but we are resolute. We have a better way. Stay strong! Stay the course! Kill them! Be confident! Prevail! We are going to wipe them out! We are not blinking!"

A White House spokesman had no comment.

This is what happens when one elects a dimwitted frat boy to the oval office.  Give me a horndog Rhodes scholar any day.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2008, 08:56:33 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 02, 2008, 08:40:32 PM

"There is a series of moments and this is one of them. Our will is being tested, but we are resolute. We have a better way. Stay strong! Stay the course! Kill them! Be confident! Prevail! We are going to wipe them out! We are not blinking!"

Quite honestly statements like that are exactly why I voted for Bush in 2004.  For better or for worse at least we know where he stands.

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Jeff
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« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2008, 08:56:40 PM »

Quote
This is what happens when one elects a dimwitted frat boy to the oval office.  Give me a horndog Rhodes scholar any day.

Hell right now a slightly retarded chimp would be a step up.
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« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2008, 09:12:48 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 02, 2008, 08:56:33 PM

Quote from: Brendan on June 02, 2008, 08:40:32 PM

"There is a series of moments and this is one of them. Our will is being tested, but we are resolute. We have a better way. Stay strong! Stay the course! Kill them! Be confident! Prevail! We are going to wipe them out! We are not blinking!"

Quite honestly statements like that are exactly why I voted for Bush in 2004.  For better or for worse at least we know where he stands.

See, when meeting with the generals to set strategy, I'd prefer he be a little more analytical.  Save the red-meat rhetoric for whipping your base into a xenophobic frenzy.
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« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2008, 09:14:38 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on June 02, 2008, 08:56:40 PM

Quote
This is what happens when one elects a dimwitted frat boy to the oval office.  Give me a horndog Rhodes scholar any day.

Hell right now a slightly retarded chimp would be a step up.



Little known fact:  Reagan was actually the chimp's ventriloquist dummy.  "Look, you can't see my lips move while I drink from this bottle!"
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« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2008, 09:48:51 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 02, 2008, 08:56:33 PM

Quote from: Brendan on June 02, 2008, 08:40:32 PM

"There is a series of moments and this is one of them. Our will is being tested, but we are resolute. We have a better way. Stay strong! Stay the course! Kill them! Be confident! Prevail! We are going to wipe them out! We are not blinking!"

Quite honestly statements like that are exactly why I voted for Bush in 2004.  For better or for worse at least we know where he stands.



To quote a famous philosopher and a fine tennis player, "You cannot be serious."
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« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2008, 10:33:37 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 02, 2008, 07:14:18 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on June 02, 2008, 07:09:28 PM

No, point not proven, sir. Your claim was that I think everyone who disagrees with me was in idiot.

You're just one person.
Roll Eyes

Too obvious and obnoxious to be clever.

Then I'll ask you again: where is your citation that Jeff Jones has denounced "anyone" who disagrees with him as an idiot?  I will not, however, hold my breath for a response because you've already confessed that you launched the attack first and have been brainstorming ways to justify it ever since.

It's becoming increasingly clear why President Bush appeals to you so much.

cheeba, in the last two weeks you've tried to argue that Bill Clinton's lie about his infidelity is more troubling to you than the lies that triggered the Iraq invasion, taken the position that being intentionally decieved by the government isn't a big deal if their end goal seems worthwhile, and asked for more time to gin up some sort of explanation for your personal attack.  If anyone here might think you're an idiot, I doubt it's solely because they "disagree" with you.

-Autistic Angel
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