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Author Topic: Rev. Graham: Obama won because Christians didn't vote  (Read 4708 times)
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hepcat
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« Reply #120 on: January 14, 2013, 08:29:00 PM »

Soooo...to summarize your position: 

Yes, there is no reasonable doubt in the theory of the Big Bang...except for when there is...which is just the way it should be and simply proves your point.

And you get frustrated when people don't agree with your mistaken definition of the word "theory".

It's apparent that you have an opinion that's unshakeable in light of any evidence to the contrary.  I therefore applaud your faith in your beliefs.



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« Reply #121 on: January 14, 2013, 09:00:27 PM »

Robert Gentry is a Young Earth Creationist and wants others to do work to disprove his theories.  Not very appreciative of the scientific method. 

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Gentry states that his critics are not able to supply actual scientific evidence to combat his work. This causes Gentry to conclude that there is no real scientific evidence against Polonium Halos proving creation by fiat ... This was his reason for issuing a challenge to any scientist to prove that Precambrian basement rocks could be formed, with Polonium 218 halos within them, from the elements that comprised it. In his book, he details this statement:

"The experiment being proposed is quite straight forward. The basic chemical elements of a granite, which are well-known, are to be melted, and then allowed to cool to form a synthetic rock. If my colleagues do this experiment so the synthetic rock reproduces the mineral composition and crystal structure of granite, then they will have duplicated or synthesized a piece of granite. By doing this they would have confirmed a major prediction of the evolutionary scenario they would have demonstrated that granites can form from a liquid melt in accord with known physical laws. I will accept such results as falsifying my view that the Precambrian granites are the primordial Genesis rocks of our planet. Furthermore, if they were successful in producing a single 218Po halo in that piece of synthesized granite, I would accept that as falsifying my view that the polonium halos in granites are God's fingerprints."

I have no issues with people having their own beliefs.  But when they say, "I don't know, therefore God." I lose all respect for them.  "God's fingerprints"?  There's the mark of a true scientific mind at work.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #122 on: January 14, 2013, 09:01:59 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 14, 2013, 08:29:00 PM

Soooo...to summarize your position: 

Yes, there is no reasonable doubt in the theory of the Big Bang...except for when there is...which is just the way it should be and simply proves your point.

Pretty much, except you're typing it in a way that makes me sound like an idiot, which is a silly way to do an argument. To rephrase what you just said:

Yes, the Big Bang as a phenomenon is widely accepted as fact among the scientific community based on enormous amounts of research, observation and testing. All the testing in the world can't prove 100% that something is or isn't true however, which is the basis of why the word "theory" is used instead of "fact". That theories can be questioned and even proven wrong shows that the system works, and in no way weakens the concept or changes its basics. If science claimed that they knew, with 100% certainty, that a theory was actually fact and that nothing would ever be able to disprove it, they would in fact be delving into religion themselves since there is currently no way for humanity to prove something beyond all doubt. Try it! Take the apple I've been mentioning. Can you prove that, given no other influences on its behavior, it will always fall towards a source of gravity no matter where you are in the universe and regardless of circumstances? Of course you can't, nor can anyone else. Does that mean gravity is a falsehood, or that it isn't proven? No. Once you can understand the connection between those concepts, you've come a long way towards understanding the word "theory", which brings us to...

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And you get frustrated when people don't agree with your mistaken definition of the word "theory".

Yes, because it's not mistaken. The page you just linked to has multiple definitions that cover what I'm saying. Examples:

1: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another
3: the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art <music theory>
5: a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena <the wave theory of light>
6c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject <theory of equations>

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It's apparent that you have an opinion that's unshakeable in light of any evidence to the contrary.  I therefore applaud your faith in your beliefs.

My opinion is unshakable in light of the mind-bogglingly enormous amounts of evidence and observations that backs it up. Until religion or any other institution in society can present even a shred of evidence to the contrary, it will remain this way. This is not faith. This is observation. I'm starting to think that not only do you struggle with the word "theory", but with "faith" as well. But hey, don't take my word for it! Instead, let me follow your example.

One of the above links is a red herring and actually provides you with good fodder for your next discussion on this topic, fodder that doesn't rely on abuse of the word "theory", and which could actually make people like me go "okay, I can't refute that".

Another link addresses what is most likely going to be your reply to this post.

I'll leave it as an exercise for you to find what I'm talking about. slywink
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« Reply #123 on: January 14, 2013, 09:15:20 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 14, 2013, 09:01:59 PM

Quote from: hepcat on January 14, 2013, 08:29:00 PM

Soooo...to summarize your position:  

Yes, there is no reasonable doubt in the theory of the Big Bang...except for when there is...which is just the way it should be and simply proves your point.

Pretty much, except you're typing it in a way that makes me sound like an idiot, which is a silly way to do an argument.

I'm fighting fire with fire.  I'm sorry you felt burned.

p.s.

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All the testing in the world can't prove 100% that something is or isn't true however, which is the basis of why the word "theory" is used instead of "fact"

That's exactly what I've been trying to tell you...except for that "all the testing in the world can't prove 100% that something is or isn't true" bit.
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« Reply #124 on: January 14, 2013, 09:18:05 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 14, 2013, 09:15:20 PM

Quote from: TiLT on January 14, 2013, 09:01:59 PM

Quote from: hepcat on January 14, 2013, 08:29:00 PM

Soooo...to summarize your position: 

Yes, there is no reasonable doubt in the theory of the Big Bang...except for when there is...which is just the way it should be and simply proves your point.

Pretty much, except you're typing it in a way that makes me sound like an idiot, which is a silly way to do an argument.

I'm fighting fire with fire.  I'm sorry you felt burned.

*The sound of a whip echoes across the thread*

Alright, let's leave it at that. Next time you try to understand the word "theory" a little better, and I try to be a little nicer. Perhaps we can get rid of all these wars around the world eventually. Tongue
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« Reply #125 on: January 15, 2013, 02:13:18 AM »

OK, a few rambling thoughts.

Apart from some interesting but completely untestable hypotheses, science says nothing about what caused the Big Bang and what existed before. Existence and time are properties of the universe that have no meaning outside of it. God is as valid as any other hypothesis in these extreme instances, as well as any other question that's beyond the scope of science (such as souls or life after death -- these things are unmeasurable and untestable). Science is an unrivaled way of knowing about the who-what-when-where-and-how of the physical world, but it usually can't say much about the why.

There is an underlying element of faith in science, especially for us lay folk. I read Science News religiously (heh) so I keep informed about new discoveries in most branches of science. I read descriptions of the experiments and I understand how they bolster or contradict what's already known. But I have to take it on faith that what scientists tell me is true, and that the peer review process filters out a lot of error. Even scientists can't have first-hand knowledge outside of their own specialties, so in that sense everybody has faith in the scientific method. It's not faith in revealed truth, but rather faith in our method of discovering truth. Unless you have access to raw data, expertise to interpret it, and patience to evaluate the experiments that produced it, you too are making a leap of faith when you believe the preponderance of scientific evidence.

This is not to say that faith in the scientific method is equivalent to religious faith. Science is not a religion. I'm a very materialist, scientific person myself. I have zero tolerance for magical thinking. But I recognize that science can't tell us about anything outside of matter, energy, and time -- if metaphysics exists in any way beyond a mental construct, it is the domain of religion and philosophy.
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hepcat
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« Reply #126 on: January 15, 2013, 02:34:09 PM »

Years ago I got into another little internet squabble with someone about the Amish.  This was right after the shooting at the school in Amish country that took the lives of a few children.  One of the older children stood up and asked to be killed first so that the younger ones could be spared.  After the incident, the Amish community rallied around the innocent wife of the shooter and gave her solace and protected her from the vultures in the media that tried to get to her.

A poster on the forum I was on immediately jumped in and proclaimed that the Amish were guilty of being a harmful cult because they lived the way they did.  He felt that they were furthering ignorance by eschewing technology and living the simple, religious life they chose, thus damning their children (although he apparently forgot that the Amish actually allow their kids to choose their paths before adulthood).

That irked me the more I thought about it because we had just seen the selflessness that this community could exhibit, the bravery in their children, the unfathomable ability to forgive that...I have to admit...I doubt I could have shown in that same situation.

I understand how easy it is to laugh at them because they turned their back on a modern world, because they want to live simple lives in service to their god.  But at the end of the day, when that kind of compassion, empathy and bravery is the result of your faith, who's to say they're wrong in their choices?  

Inventing the gun was an amazing technological feat...choosing not to use it might be just as amazing though.

p.s. yes, I know that religion is also responsible for the crusades, the Inquisition and other atrocities.  I'm just saying that like anything in this world, there's good and there's bad.  I find it troublesome when any mention of religion results in immediate assumption that the origin of that word in the current topic indicates a nefarious or idiotic purpose.
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« Reply #127 on: January 15, 2013, 02:59:22 PM »

Unless there's something vital missing from the story, I don't see how that kid's sacrifice was related to his religion. Being raised to be a good human being is probably more important here.
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« Reply #128 on: January 15, 2013, 03:36:02 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 15, 2013, 02:59:22 PM

Unless there's something vital missing from the story, I don't see how that kid's sacrifice was related to his religion. Being raised to be a good human being is probably more important here.

You can't divorce religion from the child's upbringing in that community.  Also, it wasn't just the act of that child alone that I mentioned.
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« Reply #129 on: January 15, 2013, 07:57:05 PM »

I believe in the tri-part being. Spirit, Soul, and body. I also believe that without feeding anyone one of these,  you will be un-balanced and off kilter in life.
Spritual things are discerned spiritually. Spiritual thinking of any kind is a step of faith. Faith, which the Bible describes as, "The substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".
You cannot mentally(soul) ascend to spiritual realms. You have to put the need for everything to measure up mathmatically, and take that small, step of faith.
In the natural all day long we use a form of faith. I step on an elevator on the 54 floor, I don't give it a second thought about it maybe free falling to the bottom..
Personally I put this in the "trust" realm but the idea of faith is there. You can't prove the elevator isn't going to free fall this time. You just believe this isn't the day it will.
Trust? Faith? Denial?
Everything in life can't be explained completely and put into nice little envelopes of "understanding".
If you don't believe there is a Mt. Everest because you've never seen it, a person who has seen can say catagorically, you're wrong.

If you've never given your spirit man a chance. If you live in a prove it or its not happening stance, you can never understand spirituality or faith.

Faith isn't a religion. Faith isn't laws, do's and don'ts...

This is what Jesus said is all that's needed is to believe that He is who He say's He is. And let go of your pre-conceived ideas, and in all earnest let God show You just what Faith, Love, and Hope is all about.

I personally don't believe a Christian's call should be about convincing people that they should turn and give their lives to Him. But more of showing them the love of God and His totall acceptance of them just as they are, because of His son's sacrifice on the cross. By the way, the Romans/Jews didn't take Jesus's life, He layed it down, willingly.
Which makes it all the more poignant and breathtaking. No greater love has a man than this, that he is willing to lay down his life for a friend.

Jesus is my friend. He's my saviour, He's my all in all. No I don't sit in a sparsely furnished barn quoting scripture to myself all day, not wanting anything to do with the World. Exaclty the opposite. What kind of person who believes what I believe would keep it from those around him.
Rambling, and enthusiastically talking of Jesus might put some off, but how do you not get excited and a bit giddy when you believe the words of God are real.

One thing we all know. That in around 80 years from now, not one of you reading this will be unsure any longer. Think of this as well. That in 120years at the very most, not one person on this Earth now, will be alive. That's over 6 billion people finding out the truth for sure in such a relatively short time in history. Boggles my mind.
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« Reply #130 on: January 15, 2013, 08:03:19 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on January 15, 2013, 07:57:05 PM



One thing we all know. That in around 80 years from now, not one of you reading this will be unsure any longer. Think of this as well. That in 120years at the very most, not one person on this Earth now, will be alive. That's over 6 billion people finding out the truth for sure in such a relatively short time in history. Boggles my mind.


Please let it be the one with 70 virgins, please let it be the one with 70 virgins, please let it be the one with 70 virgins....
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« Reply #131 on: January 15, 2013, 08:19:31 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on January 15, 2013, 07:57:05 PM

Faith isn't a religion. Faith isn't laws, do's and don'ts...

This is what Jesus said is all that's needed is to believe that He is who He say's He is. And let go of your pre-conceived ideas, and <snip!>

Wow, it only took you one sentence to do a full 180 degree turnaround. I'm impressed! Tongue

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One thing we all know. That in around 80 years from now, not one of you reading this will be unsure any longer. Think of this as well. That in 120years at the very most, not one person on this Earth now, will be alive. That's over 6 billion people finding out the truth for sure in such a relatively short time in history. Boggles my mind.

Who is this "we"? Everyone? Christians? A select group of Christians?

Your last paragraph reminds me of one time when a Christian person in a discussion I was reading, about 10+ years ago I think, simply couldn't understand how anyone could not be Christian. Did the atheists all WANT to go to Hell? Her reasoning and lack of understanding of a mind without faith truly boggled my mind and made me laugh. It still does. Tongue
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« Reply #132 on: January 15, 2013, 08:23:22 PM »

I'm not defending his views (since I don't really believe in them), but I've read stuff by more than one atheist who couldn't believe everyone didn't share their beliefs.
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« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2013, 08:27:54 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 15, 2013, 08:23:22 PM

I'm not defending his views (since I don't really believe in them), but I've read stuff by more than one atheist who couldn't believe everyone didn't share their beliefs.

Yeah, that is just being stupid. I can easily understand why somebody would become religious, even if I find the concept to be appallingly backwards myself.
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« Reply #134 on: January 15, 2013, 08:33:10 PM »

So all forms of religion are appallingly backwards to you?  Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus...they're all just backward people?
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« Reply #135 on: January 15, 2013, 08:43:32 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 15, 2013, 08:33:10 PM

So all forms of religion are appallingly backwards to you?  Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus...they're all just backward people?

Why do you have to read everything I write from the most negative angle possible? I didn't attack the people. I attacked religion as a concept. Is the difference hard to understand?

So yes, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism are all appallingly backwards to me. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus aren't. The distinction is pretty big between those two.
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« Reply #136 on: January 15, 2013, 08:49:40 PM »

By the way, a good quote that illustrates my opinion quite well is this:

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."

In other words, anyone is entitled to say "I believe the Earth was created 4000 years ago" since that is an opinion and technically can't be contradicted. Nobody is entitled to say "The Earth was created 4000 years ago" since that contradicts the facts.
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« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2013, 08:55:33 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 15, 2013, 08:43:32 PM

Quote from: hepcat on January 15, 2013, 08:33:10 PM

So all forms of religion are appallingly backwards to you?  Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus...they're all just backward people?

Why do you have to read everything I write from the most negative angle possible?

I asked a simple question based on your assertion " I can easily understand why somebody would become religious, even if I find the concept to be appallingly backwards myself."  I don't see how I was taking it in a different direction than you intended.  If I say that I think Judaism is a backward religion, don't you think a Jewish person would assume I meant they themselves were backwards when I told them this?  If not, try doing so and see what the response is.  I would imagine it won't result in a high five.
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« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2013, 09:13:32 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 15, 2013, 08:55:33 PM

I would imagine it won't result in a high five.

And why should it if I criticize something that is important to someone? It's okay not to cheer someone on for doing that, but if you get insulted by it, you've got issues. I've often seen people say things like "roleplaying games are stupid/satanic/a waste of time", to use an example of something that has meaning to me. Is that an attack on me? Of course not! It's a criticism of roleplaying games. It's a far cry from putting those same adjectives on me as a person. In the same way, if I say Christianity is stupid, that isn't the same as saying Arclight is stupid. Is there a particular reason why religion should be treated like a VIP when it comes to criticism and opinion? Is there a reason why religious people should have their opinions be insulated against the rest of the population and their opinions? Why?

It comes back to something I said in what I think was my second post in this thread: Religion is treated differently. It seems perfectly fine to attack just about anything, in the most destructive ways too (like the way teachers are allowed to teach creationism in Louisiana as a realistic alternative to evolution. Those poor kids are being shut out of parts of the job market that are vital to America's future), but don't you dare insinuate that there are faults with religion, or you'll get a flame war like you've never seen. Why is this?

By the way, I've only seen the behavior I just described among Americans and people in third-world countries. The rest of the world seems to treat things more equally. Why is this?

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« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2013, 09:29:37 PM »

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I've often seen people say things like "roleplaying games are stupid/satanic/a waste of time", to use an example of something that has meaning to me. Is that an attack on me? Of course not! It's a criticism of roleplaying games. It's a far cry from putting those same adjectives on me as a person.

I would say with more than a small amount of certainty that there's far more insult in saying to a Hindu RPG'er that Hinduism is a backward religion than telling them that LARPing is stupid.

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Is there a particular reason why religion should be treated like a VIP when it comes to criticism and opinion? Is there a reason why religious people should have their opinions be insulated against the rest of the population and their opinions? Why?

No, but is there a reason why a Christian or a Muslim should have to hide their religious views from people like you in fear that they'll be ridiculed for being backward?  Truth be told, I've seen more accusations of stupidity being tossed at the religious people on this board than the other way around.  I don't see any persecution of atheists on this, or many other, boards.  

Quote
By the way, I've only seen the behavior I just described among Americans and people in third-world countries. The rest of the world seems to treat things more equally. Why is this?

At first I thought you meant teaching creationism, or just religion itself, in schools (which is hardly unique to the US or third world countries), but I'm guessing you mean religious people persecuting non-religious people?  If so, I would point towards that whole Holocaust thing in Germany less than 100 years ago, as well as the Chinese to this day squelching any religious freedom.   Both are far from third world countries.  Catholics in Italy are a pretty staunchly religious folk and while it may become one if they don't watch their economy, Italy is also not a third world country.  The Middle East is far more radical in their religious beliefs and I think it's safe to say that not every country in the Middle East is a third world country.

Look, I'm not defending religion because I'm a practitioner or even a closet believer.  I'm simply saying that I've encountered religious people who are kind and forward thinking, and I've encountered religious people who are close minded and bigoted.  But I've also encountered non-religious folks who are just as awful as those from the latter group I just mentioned.  Labeling everyone who believes in a higher power as backward or stupid (or even inferring that by saying that all religion itself is backward) is bigoted and unfair.  For me, that's all I'm trying to get across.

By the way, It was a group of Irish Monks you should thank for helping to get the world out of the Dark Ages.   icon_wink
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« Reply #140 on: January 16, 2013, 05:13:13 AM »

Appallingly backwards.  Keep it classy, TiLT.
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« Reply #141 on: January 16, 2013, 06:04:49 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 15, 2013, 08:43:32 PM

Quote from: hepcat on January 15, 2013, 08:33:10 PM

So all forms of religion are appallingly backwards to you?  Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus...they're all just backward people?

Why do you have to read everything I write from the most negative angle possible?

As a mostly neutral observer, could it possibly be because you write it with such a negative angle? You come across as dogmatic as many a religious zealot.

Ale
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« Reply #142 on: January 16, 2013, 07:35:22 AM »

I'm clearly losing this argument, and since this is the kind of discussion where nobody will change their mind anyway, I'll respectfully bow out. It's not worth tainting my reputation over.
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« Reply #143 on: January 16, 2013, 07:50:48 AM »

Quote from: pr0ner on January 16, 2013, 05:13:13 AM

Appallingly backwards.  Keep it classy, TiLT.

Personal opinions, while conflicting with yours, aren't yours to regulate.
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« Reply #144 on: January 16, 2013, 08:56:06 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 16, 2013, 07:35:22 AM

I'll respectfully

That probably would have prevented the argument.

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« Reply #145 on: January 16, 2013, 12:06:18 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on January 16, 2013, 07:50:48 AM

Quote from: pr0ner on January 16, 2013, 05:13:13 AM

Appallingly backwards.  Keep it classy, TiLT.

Personal opinions, while conflicting with yours, aren't yours to regulate.

nor are they yours biggrin
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« Reply #146 on: January 16, 2013, 12:07:45 PM »

Well, I'm special, you know ;-)

Anyways - you are right..sorry!
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« Reply #147 on: January 16, 2013, 02:19:14 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 16, 2013, 07:35:22 AM

I'm clearly losing this argument, and since this is the kind of discussion where nobody will change their mind anyway, I'll respectfully bow out. It's not worth tainting my reputation over.

I think the only issue here is that you use much too broad of a paintbrush when creating your portrait of religion.  I don't really think you're bigoted if your posting history is any evidence (although I do believe you have an issue with the United States as its flaws frequently pop up in a lot of your posts in the political threads at some point.  icon_wink).  That's why I was taken aback at your sweeping generalizations on the subject of religion. 

There are many, many scientists who would consider themselves religious.  Not every religious person is trying to tell the world that creationism is the only answer, that we should avoid all truths found in science and defer to the bible.  There are zealots, sure.  But lumping everyone who believes in a higher power into one neat little bin labeled "fanatics" is a grave disservice to the overwhelming number of forward thinking Christians, Jews and Muslims (to name a few) out there in the world working in research laboratories and universities today.

That being said, I still don't trust Methodists.  They're a shifty lot...
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« Reply #148 on: January 17, 2013, 06:04:32 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 14, 2013, 05:31:56 AM

Quote from: hepcat on January 14, 2013, 02:27:25 AM

Arclight isn't trying to insult anyone.  He's being open and honest about his beliefs.  I may not agree with them, but I see no reason to belittle him for his faith.  I disagree more with intolerance, truth be told.

I realize that, and I'm not trying to insult him either, though I am being harsh on purpose. I don't see why he can attack the foundations of my world view (such as the Big Bang) if I can't attack his right back. Sometimes I get the impression that attacking science is okay, but attacking religion is unacceptable.

It's not just "the foundation of your worldview," either. Science is right -- not always in its conclusions, but in its process and approach. The framework of science is the only system we have in place for truly determining what is factual or not in this world.

If your religion is based upon ignoring or denying large bodies of rigorously-tested scientific data, then your religion is undeserving of respect.
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« Reply #149 on: January 17, 2013, 06:08:43 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 14, 2013, 06:40:09 PM

Quote
Again with the beliefs. Science is not faith! Everything science teaches you can be tested and proved by anyone who bothers to do so.

Do you know how many changes in theories there have been in science over the last 100 years regarding even the simplest of things, let alone the origin of the universe?  

The fact that science changes based on new data is it's STRENGTH. Science is open inquiry. Rejecting scientific data because of religious belief is to, quite literally, close one's mind to the truth because it doesn't match your preconceived notions.

We know for a fact that the world was not created as stated in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. We know for a fact that the world is older by orders of magnitude than would be possible if the Bible was literally true. We may not know the exact details of all the right answers to the questions about how the world physically came to be or precisely how old the planet is, but we know for a fact that the answers one would draw from a literal reading of Genesis are flat wrong.
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« Reply #150 on: January 17, 2013, 12:49:54 PM »

There are numerous theologians who view the bible as allegorical and not literal.  But that's not the point.  The point is that we shouldn't make a sweeping statement that all religious people are backwards idiots.  If this were the case all scientists would be atheists.
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« Reply #151 on: January 17, 2013, 12:53:30 PM »

All backward idiots are atheists? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE IMPLYING??!
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« Reply #152 on: January 17, 2013, 01:06:32 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 17, 2013, 12:49:54 PM

The point is that we shouldn't make a sweeping statement that all religious people are backwards idiots.

Is there really no limit to how far you will twist my words, even after I stood down and accepted defeat politely?
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« Reply #153 on: January 17, 2013, 02:32:56 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on January 17, 2013, 01:06:32 PM

Quote from: hepcat on January 17, 2013, 12:49:54 PM

The point is that we shouldn't make a sweeping statement that all religious people are backwards idiots.

Is there really no limit to how far you will twist my words, even after I stood down and accepted defeat politely?

I'm sorry if you feel I'm targeting you with this reply to Fireball.  That was truly not my intent.  I was simply reiterating my line of reasoning behind why I posted anything at all in the current discussion.  I don't feel that you've been "defeated" by the way.  You made some valid points about extremists (which is what I now believe you were referring to the whole time...it was just a question of wording, I'm guessing).
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« Reply #154 on: January 17, 2013, 02:42:54 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on January 17, 2013, 02:32:56 PM

Quote from: TiLT on January 17, 2013, 01:06:32 PM

Quote from: hepcat on January 17, 2013, 12:49:54 PM

The point is that we shouldn't make a sweeping statement that all religious people are backwards idiots.

Is there really no limit to how far you will twist my words, even after I stood down and accepted defeat politely?

I'm sorry if you feel I'm targeting you with this reply to Fireball.  That was truly not my intent.  I was simply reiterating my line of reasoning behind why I posted anything at all in the current discussion.  I don't feel that you've been "defeated" by the way.  You made some valid points about extremists (which is what I now believe you were referring to the whole time...it was just a question of wording, I'm guessing).

Alright, carry on then. Tongue
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« Reply #155 on: January 17, 2013, 05:19:51 PM »

If you take the total sum of all human knowledge, it would be a mere drop in the ocean when compared to vast amount of information about which we as a species have absolutely no understanding of at all.  By this frame of reference, we are all backwards idiots.   Theres really no need to single out one group of individuals because we all qualify.  Yay!
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« Reply #156 on: January 17, 2013, 05:28:15 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on January 17, 2013, 06:04:32 AM

Quote from: TiLT on January 14, 2013, 05:31:56 AM

Quote from: hepcat on January 14, 2013, 02:27:25 AM

Arclight isn't trying to insult anyone.  He's being open and honest about his beliefs.  I may not agree with them, but I see no reason to belittle him for his faith.  I disagree more with intolerance, truth be told.

I realize that, and I'm not trying to insult him either, though I am being harsh on purpose. I don't see why he can attack the foundations of my world view (such as the Big Bang) if I can't attack his right back. Sometimes I get the impression that attacking science is okay, but attacking religion is unacceptable.

It's not just "the foundation of your worldview," either. Science is right -- not always in its conclusions, but in its process and approach. The framework of science is the only system we have in place for truly determining what is factual or not in this world.

If your religion is based upon ignoring or denying large bodies of rigorously-tested scientific data, then your religion is undeserving of respect.

Are the followers of that religion undeserving of respect?

Ale
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« Reply #157 on: January 17, 2013, 05:30:32 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on January 17, 2013, 12:53:30 PM

All backward idiots are atheists? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE IMPLYING??!

I don't think he's implying that at all. Why do you ask that?

Ale
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« Reply #158 on: January 17, 2013, 05:39:19 PM »

Quote from: Alefroth on January 17, 2013, 05:30:32 PM

Quote from: Razgon on January 17, 2013, 12:53:30 PM

All backward idiots are atheists? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE IMPLYING??!

I don't think he's implying that at all. Why do you ask that?

Ale

Hi there - The above was...as I REALLY hope was clear, just a joke to lighten the mood a bit here. I took his words, twisted them, and wrote something that made absolutely no sense.
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« Reply #159 on: January 17, 2013, 06:11:57 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on January 17, 2013, 05:39:19 PM

Quote from: Alefroth on January 17, 2013, 05:30:32 PM

Quote from: Razgon on January 17, 2013, 12:53:30 PM

All backward idiots are atheists? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE IMPLYING??!

I don't think he's implying that at all. Why do you ask that?

Ale

Hi there - The above was...as I REALLY hope was clear, just a joke to lighten the mood a bit here. I took his words, twisted them, and wrote something that made absolutely no sense.

I was actually implying that all Athiests walk backwards.
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