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Author Topic: Raids in Minnesota  (Read 2430 times)
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Blackadar
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« on: August 31, 2008, 06:38:43 PM »

Well, it looks like they're at it again....raiding groups that might protest the Republican Convention.  While I suppose it's possible they may actually have some tip that these groups are planning a violent protest, I very much doubt it - it's been done on a number of other occasions. 

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2008/0830/20080830_031532_Warrant.pdf

http://qik.com/video/249011

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/30/police_raids/

Every day, free speech dies a little bit more.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2008, 07:40:33 PM »

Did anything similar happen in or around Denver leading up to the Democratic National Convention?  I heard a lot of complaints about the tightness of the security, but nothing about armed SWAT teams handcuffing and interrogating people who might potentially conduct a future protest.

-Autistic Angel
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mori
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2008, 01:30:34 AM »

The metro police I have had contact with have been on manditory 12 hour shifts since Thursday until the RNC is over. I would be a bit grumpy having to work like that because some pricks come into town to riot and throw piss on you.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2008, 02:19:13 AM »

Quote from: mori on September 01, 2008, 01:30:34 AM

The metro police I have had contact with have been on manditory 12 hour shifts since Thursday until the RNC is over. I would be a bit grumpy having to work like that because some pricks come into town to riot and throw piss on you.

There's nothing in there about people throwing pee on anyone.  Yet. 

The sheriff's office said it confiscated weapons on Saturday including a machete, hatchet and several throwing knives, empty glass bottles, rags and flammable liquids, homemade devices used to disable buses, metal pipes, axes, bolt cutters, sledge hammers, empty plastic buckets made into shields, an Army helmet, and large amounts of urine.  Protesters said deputies also seized materials including laptops, protest literature and sign-making materials, bus schedules and a topographical map of St. Paul, site of Xcel Energy Center, the convention hall.

Again, if they had probable cause that these folks were planning a violent protest, then that's fine.  But it doesn't appear that way.  Beyond the pee, you could find every one of these items in most homes.  In fact, raid any 4 homes in any neighborhood and I'm sure you'd find far more than that.  So the police trying to use these items as some sort of justification for their commando anti-speech raids doesn't exactly impress me.  Ooh, bolt cutters!  My gosh, a MAP!  Oh no, bus schedules!!!!  TEH TERRESISTS R HERE, RUN FOR YER LIVES!!!!!  Find a few AK-47s and we're talking...oh, that's right, it's the cops that are threatening people with those.

So this is a preemptive pee raid?  As for the pee itself, let them chuck it and then arrest 'em for assault.  There's all sorts of good laws about throwing biological agents to lock idiots like that up for a long time.

I love how the cops talk about "there are people coming to our city who are not planning to conduct themselves in a lawful manner", yet at least 50% of the 6 arrested live in the city.   Roll Eyes  It's very likely this is what it appears to be - an attempt to trample on the 1st Amendment so the Republicans can have their cross burning, oops, convention, without any dissenting opinions.  After all, anyone who doesn't agree with the Republican party isn't a patriot. 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 02:22:54 AM by Blackadar » Logged

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msduncan
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2008, 03:06:32 AM »


You are really stretching on this one Blackadar.

These guys were noted anarchist protesters, and they had alllll their gear with them clearly (as seen in what the cops confiscated).

Lock em up and throw away the key.
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mori
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2008, 03:31:55 AM »

Quote from: Blackadar on September 01, 2008, 02:19:13 AM

Quote from: mori on September 01, 2008, 01:30:34 AM

The metro police I have had contact with have been on manditory 12 hour shifts since Thursday until the RNC is over. I would be a bit grumpy having to work like that because some pricks come into town to riot and throw piss on you.

There's nothing in there about people throwing pee on anyone.  Yet. 

The sheriff's office said it confiscated weapons on Saturday including a machete, hatchet and several throwing knives, empty glass bottles, rags and flammable liquids, homemade devices used to disable buses, metal pipes, axes, bolt cutters, sledge hammers, empty plastic buckets made into shields, an Army helmet, and large amounts of urine.  Protesters said deputies also seized materials including laptops, protest literature and sign-making materials, bus schedules and a topographical map of St. Paul, site of Xcel Energy Center, the convention hall.

Again, if they had probable cause that these folks were planning a violent protest, then that's fine.  But it doesn't appear that way.  Beyond the pee, you could find every one of these items in most homes.  In fact, raid any 4 homes in any neighborhood and I'm sure you'd find far more than that.  So the police trying to use these items as some sort of justification for their commando anti-speech raids doesn't exactly impress me.  Ooh, bolt cutters!  My gosh, a MAP!  Oh no, bus schedules!!!!  TEH TERRESISTS R HERE, RUN FOR YER LIVES!!!!!  Find a few AK-47s and we're talking...oh, that's right, it's the cops that are threatening people with those.

So this is a preemptive pee raid?  As for the pee itself, let them chuck it and then arrest 'em for assault.  There's all sorts of good laws about throwing biological agents to lock idiots like that up for a long time.

I love how the cops talk about "there are people coming to our city who are not planning to conduct themselves in a lawful manner", yet at least 50% of the 6 arrested live in the city.   Roll Eyes  It's very likely this is what it appears to be - an attempt to trample on the 1st Amendment so the Republicans can have their cross burning, oops, convention, without any dissenting opinions.  After all, anyone who doesn't agree with the Republican party isn't a patriot. 

You keep 5 gallon pails of urine in your home? Your neighbors? If someone chucked pee at me, someone would have to go...away. These people are assholes that need to go away. Get the fuck out of the city and my state. The peaceful demostrators are being left alone and allowed to march without interference. Bravo to them.
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the Nightbreeze
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2008, 03:45:17 AM »

Maybe they were planning to barter with the RNC for consideration on some future policy position decisions.  Word on the street is a pail of piss is about what their work is worth these days.  slywink
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Graham
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2008, 04:53:13 AM »

Yeah, whenever I go out, I always have my homemade device along to disable other vehicles that get in my way.  I bought that right off the shelf at Wal-Mart.  I bring it along with my machette, just incase someone tries to complain.  I also make sure that I cut my empty plastic buckets into shields, just incase the other person has a machette too.  Oh yeah, and I use my attractive Army helmet to keep my head dry when it rains.  Got it from the local Army surplus center owned by the guy who lives out in the back woods area.   slywink

This does NOT pass the sniff test of finding everyone one of these items in most homes.  Five gallon pails?  Seriously?  I have no problem with that they arrested them early (no surprise from some posters I'm sure).  It's pretty clear that they had more intended than just throwing urine on cops.
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helot2000
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2008, 01:51:58 PM »

Here's the relevant info missing from the posts about this story. 
Quote
Aided by informants planted in protest groups, authorities raided at least six buildings across St. Paul and Minneapolis to stop an "anarchist" plan to disrupt this week's Republican National Convention.

The "insider" information collected by the informants apparently was the basis for law enforcement to bust in and round up the wannabe troublemakers.  Unless you have an organized plan to throw urine on people that you disagree with, you can rest assured that Democracy is still safe in America. 
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2008, 04:50:34 PM »

"Insiders" gave Denver information that 60,000 people would be protesting the DNC, yet only a few thousand showed up. Still, they got to spend a lot of money on riot gear and protest zones.
And of course, msduncan proves the point: freedom of speech is fine if you aren't saying anything controversial.
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helot2000
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2008, 08:05:16 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on September 01, 2008, 04:50:34 PM

"Insiders" gave Denver information that 60,000 people would be protesting the DNC, yet only a few thousand showed up. Still, they got to spend a lot of money on riot gear and protest zones.
And of course, msduncan proves the point: freedom of speech is fine if you aren't saying anything controversial.
Um, if all they wanted to do is yell through a bullhorn or march around with banners and signs, they would be just fine.  The problem is the Anarchists and their plans to disrupt the convention. 

Suppose one night, you and your date go downtown to eat at a fancy steakhouse and you come back to find a bunch of Vegans handcuffed to your car, hurling urine balloons at you with their freed hand(s) and insults with their meat-free mouths.  Freedom of Speech, baby!
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the Nightbreeze
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2008, 02:06:21 AM »

Change the handcuffs from a car to a lightpole next to it, and make the people toss the baloons at your feet instead of at your person, and they might be within their rights to speech, if they disperse when ordered.

And you would have a right to be upset
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brettmcd
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2008, 02:49:30 AM »

Quote from: the Nightbreeze on September 02, 2008, 02:06:21 AM

Change the handcuffs from a car to a lightpole next to it, and make the people toss the baloons at your feet instead of at your person, and they might be within their rights to speech, if they disperse when ordered.

And you would have a right to be upset

I dont think throwing balloons full of urine towards anyone, at their feet or otherwise is or should be protected free speech.
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msduncan
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2008, 03:01:02 AM »

Yeah..... peaceful protesters....    not!
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helot2000
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2008, 03:08:29 AM »

Where did you get the idea that the balloons would be tossed politely at people's feet?  You might have well envisioned them linking arms and singing antiwar songs with flowers in their hair.  That isn't what Anarchists do.  They disrupt.  You don't disrupt by dispersing when ordered or behaving.  Do we have to dig out their G-8 or WTO protests to be reminded of what they do?

I think a better analogy would be to compare them to antiabortion protesters.  As long as they protest Planned Parenthood in a legal and peaceful manner, it's free speech and the law won't bust them.  If they are going to throw and/or smash stuff, harass and impede the people coming and going, the police will be on their way.  And when they're hauled away, our Democracy will still be safe. 

Most of us can listen to "Anarchy in the U.K." without f*cking up stuff.  Most but not all, apparently.

 
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the Nightbreeze
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« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2008, 03:23:42 AM »

I've thrown water balloons in the direction of officers of the law before, a long ago time of my young adulthood.

They saw me do it.  I did not hit them.  They ordered me to leave the property.  I did.  Clean record.  I think they had every right to be motivated to charge me with anything they could trump up, and they didn't.  Maybe they let me off easy.  I can't say.  But in their shoes, I would have pinned me with something.


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VynlSol
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« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2008, 04:02:24 AM »

Quote from: the Nightbreeze on September 02, 2008, 03:23:42 AM

I've thrown water balloons in the direction of officers of the law before, a long ago time of my young adulthood.

They saw me do it.  I did not hit them.  They ordered me to leave the property.  I did.  Clean record.  I think they had every right to be motivated to charge me with anything they could trump up, and they didn't.  Maybe they let me off easy.  I can't say.  But in their shoes, I would have pinned me with something.

It's clear from Nightbreeze's past encounter with law enforcement personnel that throwing piss-filled balloons not just at the feet of innocent bystanders, but also directly at sworn officers of the law, is merely an exercise of freedom of speech. Therefore O.J. must be acquitted.

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joeyjazz
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« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2008, 01:37:18 PM »

Quote from: helot2000 on September 02, 2008, 03:08:29 AM

That isn't what Anarchists do.  They disrupt. 

That's bullshit.  Not all anarchists are violent criminals just like not all republicans are sex offenders.  Or maybe they are, I don't know.  It'd be nice if the groups involved in these arrests would go by their own name instead of giving even more bad press to a much larger group that contains a lot of well intentioned people that aren't violent and aren't trying to fuck shit up or whatever else you think all anarchists do.

Edit: It looks like some of the groups do have names for themselves.  It'd be nice if people would use them.
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the Nightbreeze
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« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2008, 02:45:15 PM »

Quote from: VynlSol on September 02, 2008, 04:02:24 AM

Quote from: the Nightbreeze on September 02, 2008, 03:23:42 AM

I've thrown water balloons in the direction of officers of the law before, a long ago time of my young adulthood.

They saw me do it.  I did not hit them.  They ordered me to leave the property.  I did.  Clean record.  I think they had every right to be motivated to charge me with anything they could trump up, and they didn't.  Maybe they let me off easy.  I can't say.  But in their shoes, I would have pinned me with something.

It's clear from Nightbreeze's past encounter with law enforcement personnel that throwing piss-filled balloons not just at the feet of innocent bystanders, but also directly at sworn officers of the law, is merely an exercise of freedom of speech. Therefore O.J. must be acquitted.

Hey, I said right in there that I could be wrong.  Just had a personal experience that gives me a reason to at least wonder, if not believe.

What more do you want from me?
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VynlSol
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« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2008, 02:48:24 PM »

Quote from: the Nightbreeze on September 02, 2008, 02:45:15 PM

What more do you want from me?

Cash money!
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the Nightbreeze
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« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2008, 03:04:01 PM »

A pair of shiny pennies are on their way right over.  Mail me a letter if you don't get them.
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