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Author Topic: Palin opens mouth, useless comes out.  (Read 14651 times)
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Jeff
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« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2008, 04:04:08 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on October 02, 2008, 03:50:59 AM


Biden, to me, however, is just as much a risk as Palin at this point. Yes, he's got a shit-ton of experience, but he's put none of his experience points in tact. Some of the stuff he has said is downright racist. I certainly wouldn't want my President joking about having to speak Indian at 7/11's.



Palin was overheard at a restaurant (in Alaska) responding to Obama's victory over Clinton with "so, Sambo beat the bitch".

'Sambo' is about the same as 'ni--er' up there.

Anyway, if you think Biden is as big a risk as Palin, you need to put down the pipe and breathe some fresh air. One joke doesn't erase 35 years experience as a U.S. senator. It's really reaching (beyond comprehension) to politically equate Biden with Palin in any way, shape or form.

I do give you points for admitting that Palin's interview with Couric stunk, though. And yes, she will probably do better in the debates - at least better than the Couric interview, but that's not saying much. She's been heavily coached these last few weeks, and well, we'll see how it goes. A disastrous performance from her tomorrow night can possibly finish McCain off.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 04:07:26 AM by Jeff Jones » Logged
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« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2008, 04:51:07 AM »

Sambo is that ANYWHERE, Jeff.

But that article is pretty pathetic. It may be true, but when the source is "Lucille, a waitress that served Sarah Palin," I have my doubts.
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« Reply #82 on: October 02, 2008, 05:10:58 AM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on October 02, 2008, 04:51:07 AM

Sambo is that ANYWHERE, Jeff.

But that article is pretty pathetic. It may be true, but when the source is "Lucille, a waitress that served Sarah Palin," I have my doubts.

Yeah, I am not buying that at all.

I actually think Palin will do ok tomorrow, my bigger concern is that Biden is going to screw up really bad. I don't have a lot of confidence in him. I think he's going to be a little cocky and will be more prone to stick his foot in his mouth. While Palin has an idea what the questions will be and has been informed on the correct answer the last couple of days.
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« Reply #83 on: October 02, 2008, 12:03:13 PM »

Quote from: Lee on October 02, 2008, 05:10:58 AM

Quote from: Eduardo X on October 02, 2008, 04:51:07 AM

Sambo is that ANYWHERE, Jeff.

But that article is pretty pathetic. It may be true, but when the source is "Lucille, a waitress that served Sarah Palin," I have my doubts.

Yeah, I am not buying that at all.

I actually think Palin will do ok tomorrow, my bigger concern is that Biden is going to screw up really bad. I don't have a lot of confidence in him. I think he's going to be a little cocky and will be more prone to stick his foot in his mouth. While Palin has an idea what the questions will be and has been informed on the correct answer the last couple of days.

In my opinion, the recent weeks of Palin's apparent stupidness means that there is little the debate is going to do in terms of voters or support. I would actually think it helps McCain more if something about the debate captures the media's attention more than it normally would. Those that see her ineptitude already are not going to be swayed and those that think she is "down to earth" etc are not going to be swayed one way or the other. So I think Biden and the dems have more to lose in this debate all the way around. The best they can hope for is a boring debate with a few minor "Palin moments" so the media can shift focus back on McCain.
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« Reply #84 on: October 02, 2008, 12:47:34 PM »

I'm not sure she's hit the floor in terms of public opinion of her competence and experience, but I'd agree that Biden, who has much stronger numbers, has more to lose tonight.  That said, Obama's got a nice lead building (though it's more tenuous in the important swing states), so as long as there's no major fuck-ups, everything'll just continue apace.

The format of this favors her because of the reduced opportunity for interpersonal interaction - her stupidest answers in these interviews have all been to follow-up questions where she's been asked to explain one of her non-answers.  After the initial spasm of keywords, she has nothing else to say.  Since she doesn't understand the underlying issues, she just drops into total incoherence.  Like last night, where she's asked about Roe v. Wade, which she opposes because, oh, she's a "federalist".  When asked if she believes the constitution guarantees a right to privacy, she says "I do.  Yeah, I do," without comprehending that that's the foundation of the Roe decision.

I hope Ifill forces her to explain herself.
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« Reply #85 on: October 02, 2008, 12:56:41 PM »

Yeah, I'm expecting a draw, or perhaps a slight edge for Palin if she manages to come across as reasonably intelligent. Everyone knows Biden, and nobody really gives a damn about Biden. This debate is all about Palin, and if she manages to not screw up it will probably be perceived in the press as a redemption of sorts.

I think Biden is in a lose-lose situation here. He runs a risk if he comes off too strong, he runs a risk if he comes off too weak. His best hope is to put in a capable performance and hope Palin hangs herself.
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« Reply #86 on: October 02, 2008, 01:03:47 PM »

I envision Palin being very robotic and sticking to the scripted answers that will have been drummed into her head over the last week's "debate camp."  Any attempt to get her to go deeper with her answers will be rebuffed with a repeat of her script. 

Then tomorrow the McCain camp will spin it as a win.  "See she is not as incompetent as the "Liberal Press" made her out to be!"

And there will be a segment of people who will eat that up.
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« Reply #87 on: October 02, 2008, 01:09:54 PM »

Imagine this scenario:

Biden: "Uh..Mr. Moderator - I'm going to yield my 3 minutes back to Mrs. Palin.  I'd like an explanation of what she just said.  Mrs. Palin - can you explain what you mean by XYZ?"

That'd be awesome.  She'd sound like a cartoon character.  "Buhhhbuhhhhbuhhhh...uh...wha?"
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« Reply #88 on: October 02, 2008, 01:28:00 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on October 01, 2008, 06:51:09 PM

They apparently appreciate that she's real and that she had a "good moral religious base."  ... When I listed Palin's many shortcomings, they argued that her shortcomings only add to her appeal and make her more "real". 

As I have often said, Americans vote their hearts, not their heads. If Palin emerges from tonight's debate looking sympathetic, she wins. If Biden appears to be mean or smug, she wins. Experience and expertise are beside the point.

I'm not sure when Americans decided that we should be ruled by sympathetic, folksy, average millionaires than cold, elite, educated millionaires, but this is a lesson the Dems have still not learned.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 01:32:58 PM by Ironrod » Logged

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« Reply #89 on: October 02, 2008, 01:39:48 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on October 02, 2008, 01:09:54 PM

Imagine this scenario:

Biden: "Uh..Mr. Moderator - I'm going to yield my 3 minutes back to Mrs. Palin.  I'd like an explanation of what she just said.  Mrs. Palin - can you explain what you mean by XYZ?"

Palin: Well, I was just stating that the movie 'Maverick' should have been cast with Senator McCain instead of Mel Gibson.  Mr. Gibson clearly did not embody the Maverick spirit as wholeheartedly as Senator McCain would have.  Senator McCain is the definitive maverick, and, I have this on good authority, Mr. Gibson wasn't even born in this country!  Our mavericks are being portrayed by non-Americans!  Now, I ask you Mr. Moderator and Senator Biden, is do you really want this countries mavericks being represented like this?

Moderator: ...Have you even seen the movie?
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« Reply #90 on: October 02, 2008, 01:46:00 PM »

Hiccup you just helped me make the connection: Palin is channeling Gilda Radner!

"Alaska has magazines!  We get all the magazines you do, and I read all of them, cover to cover.  You don't any magazines we don't get...I even read the Hoboken Weekly Classifieds and the Albuquerque Little League Digest, because we get those in Alaska!"

"Um, Governor Palin, I was just asking to find out where you like to get your news."

"Oh.  That's different.  Never mind!"
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« Reply #91 on: October 02, 2008, 01:46:53 PM »

Quote from: Hiccup on October 02, 2008, 01:39:48 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on October 02, 2008, 01:09:54 PM

Imagine this scenario:

Biden: "Uh..Mr. Moderator - I'm going to yield my 3 minutes back to Mrs. Palin.  I'd like an explanation of what she just said.  Mrs. Palin - can you explain what you mean by XYZ?"

Palin: Well, I was just stating that the movie 'Maverick' should have been cast with Senator McCain instead of Mel Gibson.  Mr. Gibson clearly did not embody the Maverick spirit as wholeheartedly as Senator McCain would have.  Senator McCain is the definitive maverick, and, I have this on good authority, Mr. Gibson wasn't even born in this country!  Our mavericks are being portrayed by non-Americans!  Now, I ask you Mr. Moderator and Senator Biden, is do you really want this countries mavericks being represented like this?

Moderator: ...Have you even seen the movie?

Moderator: Mrs. Palin - what is a maverick?

Palin: Well you see a maverick is a type of car, made by dodge, which is exactly what I am doing with this question.
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« Reply #92 on: October 02, 2008, 02:26:52 PM »

Quote
Moderator: Mrs. Palin - what is a maverick?

Palin: Well you see a maverick is a type of car, made by dodge, which is exactly what I am doing with this question.
HA!  Homerun!  hahahha
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« Reply #93 on: October 02, 2008, 02:27:22 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on October 01, 2008, 07:45:27 PM

But theories born from faith are not testable or subject to the scientific method in any way.  I can claim that the scientific reasoning behind the color of our atmosphere is based completely in theory and that the real reason why the atmosphere is blue and grass is green is because if the atmosphere were green no one would know where to stop mowing.  You have to have faith in John Deere.  While science may want you to believe that the sky is blue due to Rayleigh scattering, I argue that it is only a theory and in actuality it is an ingenious way for our intelligent designer to protect nature by keeping us from mowing too far.

That's exactly why creationism is so intellectually dishonest.  It's holding an untestable hypothesis up next to a testable hypothesis, and holding them as equal.

And while I generally detest one-issue voters, I think in this instance, this is my issue.  A young earth creationist...someone who honestly believes that humans walked with dinosaurs 6,000 years ago, is not only ignorant, they're willfully ignorant.  

I don't care if you believe God guides evolution; while I disagree, that's a position that isn't inherently provable or disprovable.  However, young earth creationism is just about as sound as those revisionist historians who insist that the Holocaust never happened (and all of the pictures of Auschwitz et al., were just staged).

I don't want someone displaying that amount of ignorance anywhere near control of our government.
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« Reply #94 on: October 02, 2008, 02:39:04 PM »

I think Palin's performance is going to pivot on the types of questions that are posed.  She does tend to do quite well whenever the topic turns to intuitive questions like, "What do you think are Republicans' greatest strengths?" or "What sort of tone would a McCain / Palin administration set in Washington?"

She gets into real trouble, though, when the questions start demanding specific knowledge of actual facts.  "Do you agree with the Bush Doctrine?"  "What Supreme Court cases do you agree or disagree with?"  And a real stumper: "What news sources do you like?"  Rather than answering the question, Palin has a habit of filling up 1 - 2 minutes with empty platitudes and baffling non-sequiturs.

Palin's interviews with Katie Couric weren't revealing because she faced tough questions, but because she faced follow-up questions.  She can fill 120-seconds with words, but if Sarah Palin is asked *anything* about what she just said, that's when her facade really collapses.

Unfortunately, I don't think tonight's rigid debate format allows for many follow up questions.  Each question offers the candidates a strict 2-minute statement followed by a 30-second response.  Such a format really favors Palin's particular style, so in the eyes of the average voter, I think she could do pretty well tonight.

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« Reply #95 on: October 02, 2008, 02:58:27 PM »

You don't have to wait for Palin's part of the debate -

http://interviewpalin.com

Click the "Repeat the question" button a few times.  Hilarity ensues.
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« Reply #96 on: October 02, 2008, 04:23:22 PM »

Quote from: Eightball on October 02, 2008, 02:27:22 PM

Quote from: PeteRock on October 01, 2008, 07:45:27 PM

But theories born from faith are not testable or subject to the scientific method in any way.  I can claim that the scientific reasoning behind the color of our atmosphere is based completely in theory and that the real reason why the atmosphere is blue and grass is green is because if the atmosphere were green no one would know where to stop mowing.  You have to have faith in John Deere.  While science may want you to believe that the sky is blue due to Rayleigh scattering, I argue that it is only a theory and in actuality it is an ingenious way for our intelligent designer to protect nature by keeping us from mowing too far.

That's exactly why creationism is so intellectually dishonest.  It's holding an untestable hypothesis up next to a testable hypothesis, and holding them as equal.

I know this all too well.  I simply kept my comments short because my geology reputation in the creationism versus evolution debates of GoneGold lore are well-known and I didn't want this discussion to degrade into a similar debate.  Few political issues get me really riled up, but even the mere suggestion that creationism deserves any sort of consideration alongside evolution in a science classroom as a viable "option" disgusts me so much that I start to feel nauseous and my head feels like it might asplode.  The complete lack of understanding supporters of creationism being taught beside evolution in a science classroom have in terms of theory versus scientific theory drives me up a wall.  

Fortunately this discussion has not come up during my mother-in-law's visit.  Otherwise we could very well wind up never speaking to each other ever again.  I have in the past heard her make comments about evolution being "just a theory", and I think I once asked if she truly understands what the term "scientific theory" means, but my wife usually urges me to leave it be as she understands my passion and realizes that even if I were to present an objective argument it would be met with "you just have to have faith."

Quote
And while I generally detest one-issue voters, I think in this instance, this is my issue.  A young earth creationist...someone who honestly believes that humans walked with dinosaurs 6,000 years ago, is not only ignorant, they're willfully ignorant.

Agreed.  I, too, have a problem with one-issue voters, but this one is a big issue for me.  While I wouldn't use it as my primary decision-maker, it pretty much negates my ability to even consider voting for McCain/Palin.  

Quote
I don't care if you believe God guides evolution; while I disagree, that's a position that isn't inherently provable or disprovable.  However, young earth creationism is just about as sound as those revisionist historians who insist that the Holocaust never happened (and all of the pictures of Auschwitz et al., were just staged).

I don't want someone displaying that amount of ignorance anywhere near control of our government.

 thumbsup
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« Reply #97 on: October 02, 2008, 04:58:02 PM »

Palin reminds me of my first girlfriend.  She had plenty of opinions on things, but could not rationally defend any of these positions.  Over time, it became apparent that all of her opinions had been placed there by her step father.  To this day, I refer to her as a chocolate Easter Bunny: sweet on the outside, nothing on the inside.
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« Reply #98 on: October 02, 2008, 05:04:23 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on October 02, 2008, 04:58:02 PM

Palin reminds me of my first girlfriend.  She had plenty of opinions on things, but could not rationally defend any of these positions.  Over time, it became apparent that all of her opinions had been placed there by her step father.  To this day, I refer to her as a chocolate Easter Bunny: sweet on the outside, nothing on the inside.

If you don't mind, I think I may start using that to describe my mother-in-law.  Although she's more a dark chocolate Easter Bunny due to being more bitter. 
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« Reply #99 on: October 04, 2008, 07:12:35 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on October 02, 2008, 05:04:23 PM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on October 02, 2008, 04:58:02 PM

Palin reminds me of my first girlfriend.  She had plenty of opinions on things, but could not rationally defend any of these positions.  Over time, it became apparent that all of her opinions had been placed there by her step father.  To this day, I refer to her as a chocolate Easter Bunny: sweet on the outside, nothing on the inside.

If you don't mind, I think I may start using that to describe my mother-in-law.  Although she's more a dark chocolate Easter Bunny due to being more bitter. 

 icon_biggrin By all means.  Given that it's been 4 years since then, I don't get to use the line much anymore.  It would make me happy to see it in use again.
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« Reply #100 on: October 04, 2008, 11:22:21 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/04/palin.obama/index.html

I thought she was supposed to be a fervent Christian? you know, love your neighbor as yourself, and God before all.

She sold out her 'morals' today, in plain sight. A man she's never met, she condemns and slanders for personal gain.

What a pitiful fucking excuse for a nominee you have there, GOP. Way to go.



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« Reply #101 on: October 04, 2008, 11:58:46 PM »

It's all they have.  There only hope of closing the gap.  That it is despicable matters not, Karl Rove is the heart of the Republican party it seems....maverick indeed, ha.
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« Reply #102 on: October 05, 2008, 03:23:30 AM »

Whatever it Takes to Win

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« Reply #103 on: October 05, 2008, 01:08:10 PM »

Again, this is a prime example of why I could no longer support this ticket. I just don't see how Republicans can condone this kind of stuff. McCain is playing dirty ball at a level that is supremely disappointing coming from someone of his honorable background.
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« Reply #104 on: October 05, 2008, 01:27:43 PM »

For me personally, I don't give a rat's ass what they think on how old the earth is.  Their opinion on that matter has no affect on me.  What does is their opinion on these terrorist motherfuckers and our economy.  I want every last one of them, and their supporters, dead dead dead.  That and someone in office who doesn't think stealing more of my hard-earned money to make gov't bigger is the answer to America's problems.  Those are the ONLY two things I care about.  On every other subject I will take care of myself.   

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« Reply #105 on: October 05, 2008, 01:52:11 PM »

Quote from: mikeg on October 05, 2008, 01:27:43 PM

That and someone in office who doesn't think stealing more of my hard-earned money to make gov't bigger is the answer to America's problems.

You must not have actually read anything substantive about their competing plans.  McCain's spending priorities will inflate the national debt by 1.5 trillion dollars more than Obama's plans - absent any changes the two make due to the current economic crisis.  Additionally, most people (including you, I'm fairly certain), will see a larger tax return under Obama than McCain.

edit to add the important quote:

Quote
If federal spending evolves as CBO predicts, the proposed tax cuts would add to those deficits and substantially increase the national debt. Senator Obama’s plan as described by his economic advisers would increase the ten-year cumulative deficit by about $3.6 trillion to $5.9 trillion; Senator McCain’s plan would boost it by $5.1 trillion to nearly $7.4 trillion. Adding to their plans proposals made in stump speeches but not confirmed by campaign advisors would lower the cumulative deficit over the decade slightly to $5.4 trillion for Obama and raise it to almost $11 trillion for McCain.
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« Reply #106 on: October 05, 2008, 06:28:49 PM »

Quote from: mikeg on October 05, 2008, 01:27:43 PM

For me personally, I don't give a rat's ass what they think on how old the earth is.  Their opinion on that matter has no affect on me.  What does is their opinion on these terrorist motherfuckers and our economy.  I want every last one of them, and their supporters, dead dead dead.  That and someone in office who doesn't think stealing more of my hard-earned money to make gov't bigger is the answer to America's problems.  Those are the ONLY two things I care about.  On every other subject I will take care of myself.   



So who do you think best addresses your two criteria?

Ale
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Jeff
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« Reply #107 on: October 05, 2008, 08:24:04 PM »

Quote from: mikeg on October 05, 2008, 01:27:43 PM

For me personally, I don't give a rat's ass what they think on how old the earth is.  Their opinion on that matter has no affect on me. 

You have to understand the fundamentalist Christian mindset, to know why such thinking is dangerous. Aside from the obvious views on education and what should be taught to children in our schools, the kind of thinking that willfully ignores virtually every geological scientist on the face of the earth ... "because the bible says so" - is the same kind of thinking that believes "Jesus is going to return real soon" (and yes Palin believes this too) - and that events in the middle east are leading up to Armageddon, which for fundamentalists - is their holy grail. They are yearning for the greatest war mankind has ever known, because this war is, they believe, the precursor to the 2nd Coming, and to God establishing a kingdom here on earth. Palin was no Easter Sunday Christian. She was a very active member of this Pentecostal church for over 20 years.

Someone who believes the earth is 10,000 years old, is someone who clearly demonstrates that facts don't matter to them. Palin has demonstrated this trait over and over again, most recently by slandering Obama as one who hangs out with terrorists.
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« Reply #108 on: October 05, 2008, 09:47:36 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on October 05, 2008, 08:24:04 PM

most recently by slandering Obama as one who hangs out with terrorists.
You're saying it's untrue he hung around with Ayers? Or that Ayers is not a terrorist?
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« Reply #109 on: October 05, 2008, 09:51:22 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on October 05, 2008, 09:47:36 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on October 05, 2008, 08:24:04 PM

most recently by slandering Obama as one who hangs out with terrorists.
You're saying it's untrue he hung around with Ayers? Or that Ayers is not a terrorist?

Ummm.... both. If he's a terrorist, why is he still on the loose? He's got to be easier to find than bin Laden , don't you think?

Ale
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« Reply #110 on: October 05, 2008, 09:58:15 PM »

Ayers is not a terrorist. Ayers was a terrorist several decade ago. I think it is important to distinct that. If Ayers is still a terrorist, don't you think he'll be in jail now? Instead of that, he is now a professor at University of Illinois.

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« Reply #111 on: October 05, 2008, 10:02:09 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on October 05, 2008, 09:47:36 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on October 05, 2008, 08:24:04 PM

most recently by slandering Obama as one who hangs out with terrorists.
You're saying it's untrue he hung around with Ayers? Or that Ayers is not a terrorist?



You might want to obtain some facts before asking stupid questions.

"Several other publications, including the Washington Post, Time magazine, the Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic, have debunked the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship." -- CNN

"Riot and bomb conspiracy charges against Ayers were dropped in 1974, and he is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago." CNN

Further, Obama's "relationship" (pals, as Palin called it) was a chance meeting in the street.

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« Reply #112 on: October 05, 2008, 10:14:21 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on October 05, 2008, 10:02:09 PM

"Several other publications, including the Washington Post, Time magazine, the Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic, have debunked the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship." -- CNN
Would you care to please point out exactly where I stated that they had a "close relationship?"
Quote
"Riot and bomb conspiracy charges against Ayers were dropped in 1974, and he is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago." CNN
Because he was not charged means he's not a terrorist? The charges were dropped because of prosecutorial misconduct. Ayers has admitted to bombings.
Quote
Further, Obama's "relationship" (pals, as Palin called it) was a chance meeting in the street.
What's your cite for this? According to The Washington Post, Obama went to Ayers' house to kick off his senate campaign. That's hardly a chance meeting in the street.

Perhaps you should read the Wikipedia which, if nothing else, is a good source of articles about Ayers and Obama's relationship with Weather Underground. I highly recommend reading them before responding again.
Obama-Ayers Controversy
Bill Ayers
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 10:16:53 PM by cheeba » Logged
Xmann
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« Reply #113 on: October 05, 2008, 10:23:32 PM »

more good Palin remarks

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/05/palin-misquotes-albright_n_131967.html

1:15 is her misquoting Madeleine Albright
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #114 on: October 05, 2008, 10:52:39 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on October 05, 2008, 10:14:21 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on October 05, 2008, 10:02:09 PM

"Several other publications, including the Washington Post, Time magazine, the Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker and The New Republic, have debunked the idea that Obama and Ayers had a close relationship." -- CNN
Would you care to please point out exactly where I stated that they had a "close relationship?"
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"Riot and bomb conspiracy charges against Ayers were dropped in 1974, and he is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago." CNN
Because he was not charged means he's not a terrorist? The charges were dropped because of prosecutorial misconduct. Ayers has admitted to bombings.
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Further, Obama's "relationship" (pals, as Palin called it) was a chance meeting in the street.
What's your cite for this? According to The Washington Post, Obama went to Ayers' house to kick off his senate campaign. That's hardly a chance meeting in the street.

Perhaps you should read the Wikipedia which, if nothing else, is a good source of articles about Ayers and Obama's relationship with Weather Underground. I highly recommend reading them before responding again.
Obama-Ayers Controversy
Bill Ayers

From your wikipedia link:

Obama has condemned Ayers' past through a spokesman.[3] After the controversy arose Ayers was defended by officials and others in Chicago. Mayor Richard M. Daley issued a statement in support of Bill Ayers the next day (April 17), as did the Chicago Tribune in an editorial.[29][30] Ayers remains on the Board of Directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago[31] Washington said it was "ridiculous to suggest there's anything inappropriate" about the two men serving on the foundation board.[1]

Michael Kinsley, a longtime critic of Ayers,[32] argued in Time that Obama's relationship with Ayers should not be a campaign issue: "If Obama's relationship with Ayers, however tangential, exposes Obama as a radical himself, or at least as a man with terrible judgment, he shares that radicalism or terrible judgment with a comically respectable list of Chicagoans and others — including Republicans and conservatives — who have embraced Ayers and Dohrn as good company, good citizens, even experts on children's issues." "Ayers and Dohrn are despicable, and yet making an issue of Obama's relationship with them is absurd." [33]

In August, the Obama–Ayers contact was mentioned in Jerome Corsi's The Obama Nation, a book intended to defeat Obama's election campaign, and in conservative author David Freddoso's The Case Against Barack Obama, where he wrote that the situation raised questions about Obama's judgment and influences.[34] Chicago Tribune columnist and editorial board member Steve Chapman suggested that while Obama was "justly criticized for his ties" to Ayers, the coverage of that connection should be matched by equal coverage of John McCain's associating with convicted Watergate burglar Gordon Liddy.[35][36]

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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #115 on: October 05, 2008, 10:53:17 PM »

Quote from: Xmann on October 05, 2008, 10:23:32 PM

more good Palin remarks

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/05/palin-misquotes-albright_n_131967.html

1:15 is her misquoting Madeleine Albright

I guess there is a place in Hell reserved for Palin.smile
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cheeba
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« Reply #116 on: October 05, 2008, 11:18:14 PM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on October 05, 2008, 10:52:39 PM

Obama has condemned Ayers' past through a spokesman.[3]
Yes, he has. And I think he's done so himself in interviews as well.
Quote
After the controversy arose Ayers was defended by officials and others in Chicago. Mayor Richard M. Daley issued a statement in support of Bill Ayers the next day (April 17), as did the Chicago Tribune in an editorial.[29][30]
The support of Chicago insiders doesn't mean much.
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Ayers remains on the Board of Directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago[31] Washington said it was "ridiculous to suggest there's anything inappropriate" about the two men serving on the foundation board.[1]
Whether it is appropriate or not is the question people have to ask themselves. What it does is show ties between Obama and someone who has admitted to bombing United States targets.
Quote
Chicago Tribune columnist and editorial board member Steve Chapman suggested that while Obama was "justly criticized for his ties" to Ayers, the coverage of that connection should be matched by equal coverage of John McCain's associating with convicted Watergate burglar Gordon Liddy.[35][36]
I'm comfortable with criticizing John McCain's ties to Liddy. That's a change of subject, but I'm comfortable with it smile.
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Lee
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« Reply #117 on: October 06, 2008, 02:51:24 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on October 05, 2008, 11:18:14 PM

Quote
Ayers remains on the Board of Directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago[31] Washington said it was "ridiculous to suggest there's anything inappropriate" about the two men serving on the foundation board.[1]
Whether it is appropriate or not is the question people have to ask themselves. What it does is show ties between Obama and someone who has admitted to bombing United States targets.

So if two people serve on a board, of a charitable group, it means they have some sort of relationship that a voter needs to be concerned about? I don't understand how this should reflect badly on Obama at all. I am certainly not friends with everyone I work closely with on a daily basis. Why should it reflect badly on Obama that someone who supports him has a bad history but is now a community leader?
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cheeba
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« Reply #118 on: October 06, 2008, 03:17:13 AM »

Quote from: Lee on October 06, 2008, 02:51:24 AM

So if two people serve on a board, of a charitable group, it means they have some sort of relationship that a voter needs to be concerned about?
Don't forget that Obama went to Ayers' home to kick off his senate run.
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I am certainly not friends with everyone I work closely with on a daily basis.
Have you gone to the home of anyone you worked with who was not your friend?
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Why should it reflect badly on Obama that someone who supports him has a bad history but is now a community leader?
That "bad history" is more like "radical, terrorist history." Personally, I can't blame people for asking the questions about his ties to this guy. Whether or not those questions are satisfactorily answered is up to each person to decide for himself. For me, someone who is very likely to vote for Obama, this doesn't change that. It does add a pause in there, though, and it is worth criticism.
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Lee
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« Reply #119 on: October 06, 2008, 03:30:09 AM »

He went to his house as part of political even put on for him there with at least one other politician, not as a one on one session. I am not worried about it. This is simply an attack by the right because they are desperate for things to make Obama look bad.
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