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Author Topic: Our perception of Christianity influenced by Hollywood?  (Read 4751 times)
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Arclight
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« on: March 10, 2008, 12:59:11 PM »

This isn't a Liberal vs. Conservative viewpoint...Heck, I'm Canadian I don't think Christian's here are so heavily influenced by the Conservative Party...Anyway...

Other than movies made by Christian folk, has anyone ever seen a main stream Hollywood  move that portrayed born-again Christians in any other light than money grubbing, fanatical, mindless people...who checked their brain at the door, and took a leap of faith onto a concrete floor?

I'm a Christian. I have been for 25 years. I had a dramatic conversion and can honestly say it saved my life. I have been in the most cutting edge Church's and the most laid back ones. I belonged to Youth With A Mission and served over-seas with them. The Hollywood portrayal of Christians is by far and away the very minority example of what I've experienced in 25 years of Christendom. I believe that Hollywood has way too much influence over society as a whole. We know this. Take for example the power of the Talk Show with this years run for Presidency.
It was a must-be for the candidates to appear on comedic-run late night talk shows. No one cared what policy they stood for, we wanted entertaining. We wanted dirt or at the very least snide innuendo's that added some juicy tidbit of gossip to our boring lives. Don't get me wrong I'm no stick in the mud guy. I'm as goofy and fun loving as the next..But I'm trying to make a point about our perception of something that I hold dear and sacred. Yes, there have been wolves amongst the sheep. There have been phony, money grubbing liars that did all in the name of Christ. These people should be exposed.

This country, as with Canada, was founded on the very principles and moral absolutes that Hollywood makes fun of. Should Christianity or for that matter any religion be "hands off"?
No, I don't think it should.
But as it is right now, Hollywood has a core bunch of movie makers who take extreme joy in portraying ALL Christians as mindless-phonies.

The essence, the very core of Christianity is forgiveness. It's the cornerstone of Jesus ministry on Earth. At the end of His life he choose a simple statement to be heard by all in ear-shot.
"Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do".

I must do the same to all. For what ever reason. Forgiveness isn't something you do once a month in a confessional(only). It is a life-style.

How often do you see Hollywood making movies that portray Christians as tolerant, forgiving people? Not very.
But in my experience that is the norm, not the exception.

Paul...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 01:04:46 PM by Arclight » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2008, 01:06:56 PM »

Not a movie but the (outstanding) TV series Friday Night Lights has a character that is a born-again Christian and, so far, her portrayal has been very positive. 
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2008, 01:25:17 PM »

I think Hollywood makes fun of everyone, mostly equally. I think Christians, Jews, and dear god Muslims need to learn how to lighten up and take a joke. I think willfully mean, wrong, or hurtful portrayals of any group, religious, ethnic (not furries though, fuck them) or otherwise is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated in any medium.

Seriously though, fuck furries.
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2008, 01:38:29 PM »

See, the born-again Christian is easily picked on. I don't recall which comedian said it, and I don't remember the exact phrasing, but it goes something like this : (we're talking about rooting around in my long-term memory so forgive me if someone knows it better)

"I feel bad for Jesus, just look at born-again Christians. I mean, how f***ed up does your life have to be for you to throw your hands up and say, that's it... JESUS, YOU TAKE OVER!"

The stigma attached to BAC is that you've hit an alltime low, and so there is an easy type-cast. Since your audience can connect with that person and understand them, its an easy way to get buy-in. Is it fair? Not really.

Everyone hits those same lows, but some people climb out themselves, and some turn to religion to help get themselves out. I'm going to use the word "crutch", but it's not derogatory. Even if you don't believe in god, even if you think the idea is proposterous as there is no scientific fact, the use of faith hones the mind to overcome obstacles. Even if there isn't some incoporeal hand in the small of your back, gently pushing you forwards, faith can help people achieve that which would be otherwise impossible for them.

That, if nothing else, is a miracle.

Now, as to Christianity's image in hollywood, I think you might be hyper-sensitive to it. I can think of many examples where Christianity is celebrated, and censoring media to make religion an "off-topic" is ridiculous. There are movies, such as Dogma, which so violently attack the premise of some of the teachings of the faith but also uphold the values that would never have been seen were it for said censor. I think people need to get thicker skins, or turn the other cheek. slywink

Spoiler for turning the other cheek (wikipedia):
Quote
In the Sermon on the Mount in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus says:

You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

ŚMatthew 5:38-42, NIV
A parallel version is offered in the Sermon on the Plain in the Gospel of Luke:

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

ŚLuke 6:27-31. NIV
Quote
Figurative interpretation
A figurative interpretation relies on historical and other factors.[1] At the time of Jesus, striking someone deemed to be of a lower class with the back of the hand was used to assert authority and dominance. If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma. The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed. The other alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, they argue, by turning the other cheek the persecuted was in effect demanding equality. By handing over one's cloak in addition to one's tunic, the debtor has essentially given the shirt off their back, a situation directly forbidden by Jewish Law as stated in Deuteronomy 24: 10-13:

When you make your neighbor a loan of any sort, you shall not enter his house to take his pledge. You shall remain outside, and the man to whom you make the loan shall bring the pledge out to you. If he is a poor man, you shall not sleep with his pledge. When the sun goes down you shall surely return the pledge to him, that he may sleep in his cloak and bless you; and it will be righteousness for you before the LORD your God.

By giving the lender the cloak as well the debtor was reduced to nakedness. Public nudity was viewed as bringing shame on the viewer, not the naked, as evidenced in Genesis 9: 20-27:

Noah was the first tiller of the soil. He planted a vineyard; and he drank of the wine, and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it upon both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; their faces were turned away, and they did not see their father's nakedness.

The succeeding verse from the Sermon on the Mount can similarly be seen as a method for making the oppressor break the law. The commonly invoked Roman law of Angaria allowed the Roman authorities to demand that inhabitants of occupied territories carry messages and equipment the distance of one mile post, but prohibited forcing an individual to go further than a single mile, at the risk of suffering disciplinary actions. [2] In this example, the nonviolent interpretation sees Jesus as placing criticism on an unjust and hated Roman law as well as clarifying the teaching to extend beyond Jewish law. As a side effect this may also afforded the early followers a longer time to missionary to the soldier and or cause the soldier not to seek followers of Jesus to carry his equipment in the future so as not to be bothered with their proselitizing.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 01:40:51 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2008, 01:38:46 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 10, 2008, 01:25:17 PM

Seriously though, fuck furries.

No thank you.
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Calvin
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2008, 01:41:38 PM »

Quote from: Purge on March 10, 2008, 01:38:46 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 10, 2008, 01:25:17 PM

Seriously though, fuck furries.

No thank you.
God man, that NEVER gets old. I mean, the funny that pours from that response, every single time it's used-over and over and over again, day in and day out, to any "fuck (insert your choice here)" joke is just overwhelming. It envelops me in humor and mirth.

Editing to preemptively apologize for the slight derail with my morning humor.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 01:46:53 PM by Calvin » Logged
Arclight
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2008, 02:06:27 PM »

Purge: I know what you're saying, but I disagree. I believe everyone "wants" to believe in a loving, caring Creator. And if you know the biblical accounts of Jesus and what His ministry was(is)you would in your heart of hearts "want" to believe that.

In the case of Born Again Christians...by the way that's a biblical term. Not that they referred to each other as "born again" but Jesus said it to an inquiring Pharisee name Nicodemus.."Unless you're born again you can't see Heaven". The stigma attached to the term, Born Again came from Hollywood and other people with a grudge or mistrusting toward organized religion.

I didn't need a crutch. Drugs were my crutch. Booze was my crutch. Women were my crutch. I needed a saviour. I needed to know that my life had a purpose other than gathering material possesions.
I needed a new life, a new direction. I became 'born again' in my spirit.

But fair enough if that seems like a crutch to you, so be it.

We all need to know we're loved un-conditionally..Jesus is the only one thats been able to do that for me.

Hollywood likes to make fun of that.

And I do believe they make fun of Christians more than other religions. And I believe I'm being objective when I say that.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 02:08:36 PM by Arclight » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2008, 03:36:22 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 10, 2008, 01:41:38 PM

Quote from: Purge on March 10, 2008, 01:38:46 PM

Quote from: Calvin on March 10, 2008, 01:25:17 PM

Seriously though, fuck furries.

No thank you.
God man, that NEVER gets old. I mean, the funny that pours from that response, every single time it's used-over and over and over again, day in and day out, to any "fuck (insert your choice here)" joke is just overwhelming. It envelops me in humor and mirth.

Editing to preemptively apologize for the slight derail with my morning humor.

If you play a pair of fours, don't expect me to deliver a royal flush.

Arc, I respect your faith; respect the idea that no topic is taboo as that builds an exclusivity to objective thinking. I'm pretty sure the savior is aware of humour; I can't imagine loving people for who they are and NOT loving their humour.

In other words, despite Calvin's vitrol response to bad joke piled onto bad joke, I still love him. Tongue
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 03:39:30 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2008, 03:42:45 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on March 10, 2008, 02:06:27 PM

I believe everyone "wants" to believe in a loving, caring Creator. And if you know the biblical accounts of Jesus and what His ministry was(is)you would in your heart of hearts "want" to believe that.

And that right there is why Christians get crap. I have read large parts of the Bible, had many, many people explain it to me, and I still think it's all BS. Just because you feel that way does not mean everyone else wants to too, that we are just lost. That is an insult to every other belief system out there.

Thankfully most Christians keep their religions to themselves, but the ones who have to mention Jesus Christ in the first minute of a conversation deserve the crap they get.
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2008, 04:05:10 PM »

Quote from: Lee on March 10, 2008, 03:42:45 PM

Quote from: Arclight on March 10, 2008, 02:06:27 PM

I believe everyone "wants" to believe in a loving, caring Creator. And if you know the biblical accounts of Jesus and what His ministry was(is)you would in your heart of hearts "want" to believe that.

And that right there is why Christians get crap. I have read large parts of the Bible, had many, many people explain it to me, and I still think it's all BS. Just because you feel that way does not mean everyone else wants to too, that we are just lost. That is an insult to every other belief system out there.

Thankfully most Christians keep their religions to themselves, but the ones who have to mention Jesus Christ in the first minute of a conversation deserve the crap they get.

Of course Im not just saying, read the bible and all will be well with you. Faith is needed for anything to do with religion. I'm saying that if in your mind the possibility of the accounts of Jesus were real you would choose to become a Christian. Im not telling you to become a Christian..Why so defensive and attacking?
I don't get your response in light of my post.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 04:07:42 PM by Arclight » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2008, 04:22:12 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on March 10, 2008, 04:05:10 PM

Quote from: Lee on March 10, 2008, 03:42:45 PM

Quote from: Arclight on March 10, 2008, 02:06:27 PM

I believe everyone "wants" to believe in a loving, caring Creator. And if you know the biblical accounts of Jesus and what His ministry was(is)you would in your heart of hearts "want" to believe that.

And that right there is why Christians get crap. I have read large parts of the Bible, had many, many people explain it to me, and I still think it's all BS. Just because you feel that way does not mean everyone else wants to too, that we are just lost. That is an insult to every other belief system out there.

Thankfully most Christians keep their religions to themselves, but the ones who have to mention Jesus Christ in the first minute of a conversation deserve the crap they get.

You misunderstood me. What I meant was that if you had a CHOICE you would choose to believe.

We do have a choice.  I choose to admire the beauty of the natural world and the processes that it operates under.  It's condescension to assume that I'd rather have some dubiously benevolent patriarchal overseer threatening me with hell unless I condemn gay people and shellfish eaters.

My perceptions of christianity are shaped by my own attendance at church for nearly two decades, multiple read-throughs of the bible, and the hypocrisy of our political and social leaders who purport to follow those precepts, not by the movie and television industry. 

Given that nearly 80% of the country self-identifies as christian, and given that movie producers and television studios are profit-driven enterprises that exist to make money...  Perhaps you'd find watching television easier if you just assume that 80% of the characters you see hold your core beliefs but just don't talk about it on camera.  This entire argument is a little too "war on christmas".
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2008, 05:40:40 PM »

Not at all. Just from your perspective. That's why there is a forum like this called, Political/Religious Nonsense. Because to most, its just that.
But by the same token to others its a meaningful aspect of life.

One man's bread is another's poison and all that good stuff.

But allowing the hypocrisy of others to sway your view of 'anythign' isn't all that good.

I investigated and sussed out Christianity for myself. I came from an athestic family, never went to Church one day in my life.

I do believe that the majority of the Hollywood movers are also flaming Liberals..no slur intended, just a fact. By and large Liberal's tend to lump all Born Again Christians in with the fanatical wing of the Conservatives...In some cases true, in most not.

To think that someone who has a belief and makes movies that include aspects of that belief wouldn't influence how they portray it, would not be logical.

Christianity is just one religion, true. Freedom of choice is one of its foundation stones. God gave us a free will to choose as we may.
I believe that whole heartedly.

My main reason for this post was just to state my feelings on how the politicalness of Hollywood also influences how they portray Christians.

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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2008, 06:06:32 PM »

I don't think they show Christians in any better or worse light than any other group.  First of all, Holywood tends to avoid religion as a topic because it'll inevitably offend someone.  But I think a lot of it is in eye of the beholder...

...lets take a perfect example.  Ned Flanders from the Simpsons.  Some Christians have been outraged over Ned.  Yet Ned is probably the most moral and likeable character in the entire series.

...another example would be the Christians from Kingdom of Heaven.  Some of them are awful people - specifically Balin's brother, Raynald and Guy.  But some of them are remarkable people, including Balin, Godfrey, Tiberias and King Baldwin. 

I think that if you posted concrete examples, we might be able to discuss those examples in context. 
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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2008, 06:22:29 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on March 10, 2008, 05:40:40 PM

Christianity is just one religion, true. Freedom of choice is one of its foundation stones. God gave us a free will to choose as we may.
I believe that whole heartedly.

My main reason for this post was just to state my feelings on how the politicalness of Hollywood also influences how they portray Christians.

A couple of things:

Freedom of choice isn't a foundation of Christianity.  If you believe the precepts of the bible, you're offerend essentially one choice:  follow the rules or don't follow the rules.  The latter purportedly sends you to hell.  That's not much of an option.

Again, it's likely that most of the people you're talking about self-identify as christians.
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2008, 06:31:36 PM »

I can think of one movie that made fun of born again Christians (the one about born again high school kids, but I can't think of its name), and that was actually pretty realistic in the way born again acted when I was in HS. Kingdom of Heaven was supposed to be kind of historical so I am not sure that is a good example since religion was pretty corrupt in those days. As has been said, usually it's not mentioned in movies.

I get my perceptions of Christians by the ones I know and the ones I see in politics, it really has nothing to do with Hollywood.

And what do flaming liberals have to do with any of this? Most liberals are Christians or Jewish.
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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2008, 11:34:08 PM »

Quote from: Lee on March 10, 2008, 06:31:36 PM

And what do flaming liberals have to do with any of this? Most liberals are Christians or Jewish.

Conservative and liberal Christians really don't consider each other to be "real" Christians, even if they're all the same to outsiders.  And I have to admit, like arclight, I've always felt that conservative Christians were typically stereotyped as empty-headed automatons in TV and movies.  I can't think of many specific examples of that, though, so I'm not sure where that impression originated.
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2008, 11:55:12 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on March 10, 2008, 06:22:29 PM

Quote from: Arclight on March 10, 2008, 05:40:40 PM

Christianity is just one religion, true. Freedom of choice is one of its foundation stones. God gave us a free will to choose as we may.
I believe that whole heartedly.

My main reason for this post was just to state my feelings on how the politicalness of Hollywood also influences how they portray Christians.

A couple of things:

Freedom of choice isn't a foundation of Christianity.  If you believe the precepts of the bible, you're offerend essentially one choice:  follow the rules or don't follow the rules.  The latter purportedly sends you to hell.  That's not much of an option.

Again, it's likely that most of the people you're talking about self-identify as christians.

Free will and free choice is most certainly a cornerstone of Christianity. I can't help it if you feel other wise due to your experience with religion and religious people. But Its your choice. No one made me chose Jesus. I didn't do it out of fear either. I did it out of love. Whether you believe that or not is up to you. I made the choice, freely, based on what I perceived to be the Truth.
No one made me, no one shamed me, no one threatened me...Id say that is free choice.
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« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2008, 12:19:13 AM »

I assume you're trying to argue free will vs. predestination - most christians believe in free will, with the proviso that you're screwed if you choose wrong.  That choice has nothing to do with christianity specifically.  That's a choice we're all granted as humans:  whether or not to bind ourselves to some belief system. 

Ultimately, within the doctrine of christianity, it's "follow the rules or go to hell."  Unless you're a unitarian. Given your biography as a "born-again christian", I'm guessing that you're not. 
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« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2008, 05:10:58 AM »

Quote from: Arclight on March 10, 2008, 11:55:12 PM

No one made me chose Jesus. I didn't do it out of fear either. I did it out of love.

No you did it because you were brought up in North America where you were told repeatedly of a Christian god. Religion is determined for the most part by geography, you "choose" what you were taught. Sure there are exceptions, but the vast majority of religious people are taught it from a very young age by what their society dictates.
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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2008, 09:25:43 AM »

Quote from: Lee on March 11, 2008, 05:10:58 AM

Quote from: Arclight on March 10, 2008, 11:55:12 PM

No one made me chose Jesus. I didn't do it out of fear either. I did it out of love.

No you did it because you were brought up in North America where you were told repeatedly of a Christian god. Religion is determined for the most part by geography, you "choose" what you were taught. Sure there are exceptions, but the vast majority of religious people are taught it from a very young age by what their society dictates.

Wow, you're wrong again. I was born in England moved to Canada when I was 10. Raised by a dad who use to tell me, Son when you're dead, you're dead!
Aren't you being the very closed minded person you accuse Christians of being?

You don't know me from Adam, pardon the pun. If you did know me you'd know that as a younger person if someone told me the way to go was Right Id go Left.
I'm not easily swayed by popular suggestions...subtle or other wise.

But still, what you're saying is just wrong. Its like saying because a woman gives birth to a child in Macdonald's he's going to grow up a hamburger.

Too simplistic sorry.
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« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2008, 09:30:22 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on March 11, 2008, 12:19:13 AM

I assume you're trying to argue free will vs. predestination - most christians believe in free will, with the proviso that you're screwed if you choose wrong.  That choice has nothing to do with christianity specifically.  That's a choice we're all granted as humans:  whether or not to bind ourselves to some belief system. 

Ultimately, within the doctrine of christianity, it's "follow the rules or go to hell."  Unless you're a unitarian. Given your biography as a "born-again christian", I'm guessing that you're not. 

No you're not completely right. The doctrine of Christianity is forgiveness. The Judeo part of it, Old Testament, was as you say but...Jesus said, "Ive come to do away with the Old and bring the New" Meaning, no more Law, but Grace. I am saved by Grace, and that a FREE gift of God.

I didn't become a Christian, or remain one because I needed fire insurance(fear of Hell)...Exactly the opposite.

We are not robots controlled by some self absorbed dictator. although I believe thats the picture Hollywood wants to paint.

I choose daily my path. Like all choices in everything there are rewards or consequences to my actions. But God's Grace covers all. God is my Father in the truest sense. Like my earthly Father I don't honor and respect him out of fear....I do so because I love him.
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« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2008, 12:50:36 PM »

You were lost, and found faith; the most prevalent faith in this part of the world. Why not seek out Falun Gong, or Buddism, or the teachings of Mohammed? Why not scientology?

You have choices, you have made one. Being confident in that choice, it shouldn't matter how christianity is perceived by the media. If you have concerns with it, it's because you feel it perpetrates an image that you associate with yourself, and either want to summarily reject others rights to free thought and critical analysis, or you fear that there is something there, something small, that may show you that you're wrong.

Challenge your faith, not in God, but in the faith you've chosen. Words are written by men, not gods. These men, powerful and singleminded, wanted to lead the herd. Up until 50 years ago the bible and the teachings were used as a staple to hold women in a subservient role, and the movements away from those teachings helped liberate half the population from an unfair caste system. Muslims take that even further; I don't see a balanced value system and it seems like (from what I've read) that mysogeny runs a strong race in biblical teachings. The perception of BAC being fundementalist and thusly sticking to the mysogenistic ways are not accurate for all people, but just like the jews are perceived as wealth-driven and selfish, if there is a visibility in those traits then that's what gets picked on.

There was never any child molestation jokes about Michael Jackson before the first accusation; regardless of whether the allegations are truth or fiction the perception is out there now. Christianity has bred some pretty nasty people in North American culture; those people who were championing the faith (regardless of whether their actions followed the teachings or if they had, in fact, twisted teaching to suit their desires).

Fact of the matter is that God is used as a crutch, called upon when people feel like they can't stand on their own two feet. Conversely the devil is a scapegoat, a justification (read:excuse) and the "I R SRY. HEVIN NOW PLZ? KTHXBAI!" forgiveness shows a total lack of accountability.

The very idea that we live _this_ life for the after-life is, in my mind, ridiculous. We are here to live our lives as well as we see fit, acting as best as we can to be ourselves and not encroach on the freedoms of others. If there is a reward at the end of it then great; living your life simply for the reward itself is like a child who only does good for reward, not _being good_ simply because they should.

Note: this post was not intended to stirthepot I am just bothered when a group of people are asking for exemption from critique.

Oh, I also fear religion because words like god and truth need to be capitolized. slywink
« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 12:54:19 PM by Purge » Logged

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Lee
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« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2008, 03:49:36 PM »

Quote from: Arclight on March 11, 2008, 09:25:43 AM

Wow, you're wrong again.

I haven't been "wrong" once in this thread, you just don't like my answers because they disagree with yours. Heck you still haven't even backed up your original point of this thread.

Quote
I was born in England moved to Canada when I was 10. Raised by a dad who use to tell me, Son when you're dead, you're dead!

All Western Christian countries. It's the same as saying as you grew up in Iraq and moved to Iran. You would be Muslim right now.
 
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Aren't you being the very closed minded person you accuse Christians of being?

How is stating a fact being closed minded? You keep saying I am the defensive, closed minded person, but in the same breath you tell me that your religion is the only real choice.

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You don't know me from Adam, pardon the pun. If you did know me you'd know that as a younger person if someone told me the way to go was Right Id go Left.
I'm not easily swayed by popular suggestions...subtle or other wise.

Well obviously you changed as you got older, since you joined up with the biggest religion on the continent. If you were just doing it to be different, you would of made a braver choice.

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But still, what you're saying is just wrong. Its like saying because a woman gives birth to a child in Macdonald's he's going to grow up a hamburger.

Too simplistic sorry.

That analogy doesn't even make sense. Are you actually saying religion isn't determined by society? Even as an atheist in the US, when the idea of a god crosses my mind it's the Christian god. Society drills it into you from when you are little kid with Christmas, Easter etc. Even with non-religious parents all my friends were Christian, it's literally impossible to avoid it in this part of the world.
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Arclight
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« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2008, 03:59:48 PM »

Lee, I still say you are wrong with you "assumptions" of me, and how I came to believe in a loving, caring creator.

No big deal.

I know what I know. I believe what I believe. How ever I came to that belief is a moot point really. The fact is I did come to a realization, a personal one.
One not forced on me.....I "freely made the choice" to accept the claims of Jesus Christ. Who cares how I came to that revelation? I don't.

I don't know why, but I get the feeling you're a tad pissed off by my thread.

I don't want to really get into Christian Apologetics in this thread, but if you want to take this to Private-Messages I'd be happy to debate this with you.

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« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2008, 04:03:03 PM »

I am not pissed off at all. I just like to argue with Christians. smile
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« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2008, 04:09:09 PM »

If you didn't want to get into an argument, this was a very questionable thread to create.
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Arclight
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« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2008, 04:18:57 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on March 11, 2008, 04:09:09 PM

If you didn't want to get into an argument, this was a very questionable thread to create.

I think the debate left my initial intent for the thread, thats all.
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« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2008, 04:28:11 PM »

To address the OP, you're absolutely right.  I can't remember the last time a movie or TV show*didn't* portray a supposedly Christian character as some kind of twisted hyopcritical stereotype (your Meryl Streeps and such *relish* playing those characters).   Most non-Christians aren't going to notice it or be bothered by it, because that image has been so firmly entrenched that they think it's just a reflection of reality.

The sad thing is, the most genuine portrayal I can think of is Ned Flanders, and even that is a very distorted characterization.
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« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2008, 04:39:23 PM »

Look at shows like Reba and 7th Heaven and tell me Christianity isn't portrayed well. The problem is that you're expecting characters to espout the prophets message, even though it's totally out of context. You're looking for bible-thumper charactistics and are upset that they are portrayed as bible-thumpers.

How is Marge not Christian? She believes in God and takes her kids to church. Hell, even Homer is. Most characters in television only identify their religious beliefs when it is a key point in the show; otherwise it is safe to assume that they are Christian/ or of similar values. Heck, every single person who is shown to celebrate Christmas is Christian in some way, unless otherwise specified.

If you want to see grave injustice in the hollywood portrayal, look at how fathers (in general) are portrayed. "Dad the imbecile" is much more common than "Christian Zealot". That stereotype (along with the breadwinner/not caregiver role inherited by the patriarical society we're evolving from) directly impacts the perception of a father's role in raising children, and taints the courts decision to award fathers equal time in rearing their kids.
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« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2008, 04:47:19 PM »

Quote from: Laner on March 11, 2008, 04:28:11 PM

To address the OP, you're absolutely right.  I can't remember the last time a movie or TV show*didn't* portray a supposedly Christian character as some kind of twisted hyopcritical stereotype (your Meryl Streeps and such *relish* playing those characters).   Most non-Christians aren't going to notice it or be bothered by it, because that image has been so firmly entrenched that they think it's just a reflection of reality.

For the 20% of us who aren't self-identified christians, please give examples.  Otherwise, this is argument from anecdote.
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« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2008, 04:56:06 PM »

I'm going to start one-upping Christianistas by telling them I'm re-born-again.  So I was born, then reborn, then I did it again.  Top that!
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« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2008, 05:14:59 AM »

Sounds like Protestantism to me. Feh.
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« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2008, 08:57:59 AM »

Quote from: Laner on March 11, 2008, 04:28:11 PM

To address the OP, you're absolutely right.  I can't remember the last time a movie or TV show*didn't* portray a supposedly Christian character as some kind of twisted hyopcritical stereotype (your Meryl Streeps and such *relish* playing those characters).   Most non-Christians aren't going to notice it or be bothered by it, because that image has been so firmly entrenched that they think it's just a reflection of reality.

The sad thing is, the most genuine portrayal I can think of is Ned Flanders, and even that is a very distorted characterization.

Is it distorted or just not how you would like to see yourselves? Although, as someone else said, Ned Flanders is a very likable character.

I have racked my brain and searched the net trying to think of or find Hollywood examples that make Christians look bad, and besides the movie Saved! and maybe the Life of Brian, I can't think of any others. Not saying there aren't others, but I would like to know what inspired this thread. Documentaries like Jesus Camp and Pelosi's daughter's Friends of God let Christians speak for themselves. They made themselves look bad, so I am not sure if you can count them.

Christians in this country seem to think they are persecuted. I don't see it, they are the vast majority and pretty much control everything. Atheists are the most hated group in the US, but somehow the 5% of us do nothing but make Christians look bad. I understand on forums like this atheists outnumber Christians, but in the real world that is just not the case.

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« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2008, 02:05:56 PM »

Yep, still waiting on some concrete examples to be posted by the OP so we can take a look at those in context.  Otherwise, it's just another "Woe is me, Christians are being persecuted" thread without any real substance.

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« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2008, 06:22:04 AM »

Movies make fun of BAC because it is a lot safer than make fun of muslims.slywink

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« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2008, 06:54:56 AM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on April 14, 2008, 06:22:04 AM

Movies make fun of BAC because it is a lot safer than make fun of muslims.slywink



You think we can't make fun of Muslims too?
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« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2008, 07:02:23 AM »

Quote from: CSL on April 14, 2008, 06:54:56 AM

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on April 14, 2008, 06:22:04 AM

Movies make fun of BAC because it is a lot safer than make fun of muslims.slywink



You think we can't make fun of Muslims too?

You can but then you probably have to hide for the rest of your life or until you outlive the person that order your death. Even then you have to keep watching your back.slywink
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« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2008, 07:52:21 AM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on April 14, 2008, 07:02:23 AM

Quote from: CSL on April 14, 2008, 06:54:56 AM

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on April 14, 2008, 06:22:04 AM

Movies make fun of BAC because it is a lot safer than make fun of muslims.slywink



You think we can't make fun of Muslims too?

You can but then you probably have to hide for the rest of your life or until you outlive the person that order your death. Even then you have to keep watching your back.slywink


I think you're overstating the case, especially when it comes to North America.
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« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2008, 07:54:36 PM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on April 14, 2008, 07:02:23 AM

Quote from: CSL on April 14, 2008, 06:54:56 AM

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on April 14, 2008, 06:22:04 AM

Movies make fun of BAC because it is a lot safer than make fun of muslims.slywink



You think we can't make fun of Muslims too?

You can but then you probably have to hide for the rest of your life or until you outlive the person that order your death. Even then you have to keep watching your back.slywink

I dunno, Salman Rushdie got along pretty well.  He was hittin' this:



Life in exile... lookin pretty hot to me.
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« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2008, 07:57:29 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on April 14, 2008, 07:54:36 PM



Salman also liked women to go bra-less and show nipples? And look at that expression of his... "Holier than this? I don't think so, biznatch!"

(attached as img was broken)
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