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Author Topic: Olympic Torch relay  (Read 5381 times)
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Canuck
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« on: April 08, 2008, 09:49:29 AM »

[I wasn't sure if this should be considered a "political" topic or not.  If so please move it to the other forum]

What are your thoughts about the protests occurring everywhere so far where the Olympic torch travels?  It's a little sad I think, because I believe the Olympics should only be about the sports.  On the other hand, the Chinese made their bed and now they have to lie in it and I do take some pleasure in seeing them embarrassed. I just read that they're actually considering canceling the torch run (has this ever been done before?)  Should they cancel?  Keep it going?  Sounds like a lose lose situation for the Chinese.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2008, 11:08:42 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on April 08, 2008, 09:49:29 AM

[I wasn't sure if this should be considered a "political" topic or not.  If so please move it to the other forum]

What are your thoughts about the protests occurring everywhere so far where the Olympic torch travels?  It's a little sad I think, because I believe the Olympics should only be about the sports.  On the other hand, the Chinese made their bed and now they have to lie in it and I do take some pleasure in seeing them embarrassed. I just read that they're actually considering canceling the torch run (has this ever been done before?)  Should they cancel?  Keep it going?  Sounds like a lose lose situation for the Chinese.

Both good and bad.

I feel badly for the torch runners as it's supposed to be an honor.  So in some small way, their moment of glory is being ruined.  With that said, if it were offered to me, I wouldn't accept because I don't agree with China's policies on many things, including Tibet. 

But I'm glad to see China's moment in the sun being tarnished by this. 
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2008, 11:33:22 AM »

The Olympics is supposed to be above politics. As such, the IOC is supposed to choose appropriate hosts for the Olympic Games. Instead they chose China. If we could get an IOC that was less politically driven, then maybe this would never have happened.
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Harkonis
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2008, 01:27:31 PM »

Quote from: Crux on April 08, 2008, 11:33:22 AM

The Olympics is supposed to be above politics. As such, the IOC is supposed to choose appropriate hosts for the Olympic Games. Instead they chose China. If we could get an IOC that was less politically driven, then maybe this would never have happened.

very true, I think awarding the games to China was not very well thought out.
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Daehawk
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2008, 01:29:53 PM »

I feel sorry for the runners but I like seeing the torch get abused and put out over Chinese assholiness. The only reason I can see anyone treating China nice is for the money they make off them and thats not right.
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2008, 01:32:25 PM »

Quote from: Crux on April 08, 2008, 11:33:22 AM

The Olympics is supposed to be above politics. As such, the IOC is supposed to choose appropriate hosts for the Olympic Games. Instead they chose China. If we could get an IOC that was less politically driven, then maybe this would never have happened.

You mean one that was more politically driven, right? Because it seems to me that the IOC chose China without considering the politics behind it.

Really, are there any countries that could be chosen that would not upset another?

I think it's inappropriate what the protestors are doing. It's okay to protest, but if you cause as bad a disturbance as these jackasses are doing, then all you're doing is hurting your own cause.
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CeeKay
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2008, 02:18:22 PM »

Quote from: DragonFyre on April 08, 2008, 01:32:25 PM

Really, are there any countries that could be chosen that would not upset another?

New Zealand.  Everybody loves New Zealand.  They got Hobbitses.
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Blackhawk
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2008, 02:24:26 PM »

Protests:  Good.

The problem is that they're taking the protests too far.
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CSL
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 03:36:57 PM »

Quote from: Blackhawk on April 08, 2008, 02:24:26 PM

The problem is that they're taking the protests too far.

Maybe the IOC shouldn't have given the Olympics to a government of thugs and liars.
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Harkonis
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2008, 03:54:10 PM »

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 03:36:57 PM

Quote from: Blackhawk on April 08, 2008, 02:24:26 PM

The problem is that they're taking the protests too far.

Maybe the IOC shouldn't have given the Olympics to a government of thugs and liars.

But we didn't get the Olympics this year   ninja
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Moliere
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2008, 04:03:52 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on April 08, 2008, 03:54:10 PM

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 03:36:57 PM

Quote from: Blackhawk on April 08, 2008, 02:24:26 PM

The problem is that they're taking the protests too far.

Maybe the IOC shouldn't have given the Olympics to a government of thugs and liars.

But we didn't get the Olympics this year   ninja


Is Canada eligible? I thought they only hosted the Winter Olympics?
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2008, 04:06:30 PM »

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 03:36:57 PM

Quote from: Blackhawk on April 08, 2008, 02:24:26 PM

The problem is that they're taking the protests too far.

Maybe the IOC shouldn't have given the Olympics to a government of thugs and liars.

I absolutely agree.  I don't see why that makes it a good idea to douse the olympic torch.  I mean, I can disagree with the Catholic church's position on just about everything, that doesn't mean I'm going to protest by pissing on the Vatican.
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2008, 04:26:39 PM »

Quote from: Blackhawk on April 08, 2008, 02:24:26 PM

Protests:  Good.

The problem is that they're taking the protests too far.

I absolutely agree. 
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2008, 04:45:19 PM »

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 03:36:57 PM

Quote from: Blackhawk on April 08, 2008, 02:24:26 PM

The problem is that they're taking the protests too far.

Maybe the IOC shouldn't have given the Olympics to a government of thugs and liars.

It's not like it's unprecedented that the Olympics are held in a country with a history of human rights abuse.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2008, 04:46:21 PM »

If the protests weren't going this far, none of us would probably be hearing about it. And China wouldn't be as... upset about what's happening to their political coup. Or, what they THOUGHT would be a political coup.
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« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2008, 04:48:07 PM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on April 08, 2008, 04:45:19 PM

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 03:36:57 PM

Quote from: Blackhawk on April 08, 2008, 02:24:26 PM

The problem is that they're taking the protests too far.

Maybe the IOC shouldn't have given the Olympics to a government of thugs and liars.

It's not like it's unprecedented that the Olympics are held in a country with a history of human rights abuse.
Don't forget Mexico in 1968.
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« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2008, 04:53:09 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on April 08, 2008, 04:48:07 PM

Quote from: whiteboyskim on April 08, 2008, 04:45:19 PM

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 03:36:57 PM

Quote from: Blackhawk on April 08, 2008, 02:24:26 PM

The problem is that they're taking the protests too far.

Maybe the IOC shouldn't have given the Olympics to a government of thugs and liars.

It's not like it's unprecedented that the Olympics are held in a country with a history of human rights abuse.
Don't forget Mexico in 1968.

Don't forget 1996!

(I'm a little disappointed in you for not doing this yourself, Ed... come on man...)
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CeeKay
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« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2008, 05:07:05 PM »

How about those games back in 1936?
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2008, 05:07:50 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 08, 2008, 05:07:05 PM

How about those games back in 1936?
Hold up now... you're not a pre-mature anti-fascist, are you?
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« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2008, 05:11:38 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on April 08, 2008, 05:07:50 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on April 08, 2008, 05:07:05 PM

How about those games back in 1936?
Hold up now... you're not a pre-mature anti-fascist, are you?

A little early in the day for oppression, isn't it Ed?
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rickfc
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« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2008, 05:28:53 PM »

You really want to send a message to the IOC?  Boycott the games.  Don't attend and don't watch them on TV.  The millions, if not billions, lost in revenue would send a message they can understand.  A few protesters making the torch relay difficult?  Meh.  Affecting the green lining of their pockets?  Message delivered.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2008, 05:32:39 PM »

Probably towing the line into politics a bit too much so moving to appropriate forum...
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« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2008, 05:33:10 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on April 08, 2008, 05:28:53 PM

You really want to send a message to the IOC?  Boycott the games.  Don't attend and don't watch them on TV.  The millions, if not billions, lost in revenue would send a message they can understand.  A few protesters making the torch relay difficult?  Meh.  Affecting the green lining of their pockets?  Message delivered.

How else do you expect people are going to get the message other than fucking with the flame? It's the most visible symbol of the games before they are actually held and therefore the best way to generate interest and news stories.
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rickfc
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« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2008, 05:46:05 PM »

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 05:33:10 PM


How else do you expect people are going to get the message other than fucking with the flame? It's the most visible symbol of the games before they are actually held and therefore the best way to generate interest and news stories.

Yes, but if that momentum doesn't carry over to the games themselves, then all this will be for naught.
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« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2008, 05:48:43 PM »

Bush would never boycott the Olympics in China, simply because his administration doesn't actually object to anything they are doing, like civil rights abuses, illegal detention, or torture.

Sure, they talk a good game as usual, but everyone in the world knows the score.
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« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2008, 05:49:51 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on April 08, 2008, 05:28:53 PM

You really want to send a message to the IOC?  Boycott the games.  Don't attend and don't watch them on TV.  The millions, if not billions, lost in revenue would send a message they can understand.  A few protesters making the torch relay difficult?  Meh.  Affecting the green lining of their pockets?  Message delivered.

But I do that every other year already.  I mean really, who gives a shit about the summer games?  I don't see a huge demand for relay races and the shot put on TV but every four years I'm supposed to suddenly care about track and field?

I don't get the Olympics - never have.

Although I used to enjoy the Epyx games.   icon_biggrin
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« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2008, 05:51:36 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on April 08, 2008, 05:46:05 PM

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 05:33:10 PM


How else do you expect people are going to get the message other than fucking with the flame? It's the most visible symbol of the games before they are actually held and therefore the best way to generate interest and news stories.

Yes, but if that momentum doesn't carry over to the games themselves, then all this will be for naught.

That is a tough thing.  You train all of your life, and with the most intensity for the past few years, only to have your chance for victory snuffed by a protestor.  Imagine that from an athlete perspective.  I agree that the 'right' thing to do would be to sit it out, but you made it to the Olympics...how do you miss that opportunity?
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« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2008, 05:53:27 PM »

Isn't the Olympic committee supposed to avoid choosing "volatile" hosts for the games?
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« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2008, 06:03:28 PM »

Quote from: DragonFyre on April 08, 2008, 01:32:25 PM

You mean one that was more politically driven, right? Because it seems to me that the IOC chose China without considering the politics behind it.

The difference being the country hosting the Olympic Games isn't supposed to be in direct opposition to many of the ideals of the Olympic Games. It's kind of a no-brainer. $$$ is why they chose China.
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« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2008, 06:20:39 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on April 08, 2008, 05:51:36 PM

That is a tough thing.  You train all of your life, and with the most intensity for the past few years, only to have your chance for victory snuffed by a protestor.  Imagine that from an athlete perspective.  I agree that the 'right' thing to do would be to sit it out, but you made it to the Olympics...how do you miss that opportunity?

I was thinking more along the lines of the spectators and TV audiences..  Even though there are people like Exodor who don't watch the games, they are still watched by billions around the globe  If you can get even 1/4 of that audience to boycott the games, it'll deliver a more resounding and longer-lasting message than the current protests.
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« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2008, 10:09:22 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on April 08, 2008, 05:28:53 PM

You really want to send a message to the IOC?  Boycott the games.  Don't attend and don't watch them on TV.  The millions, if not billions, lost in revenue would send a message they can understand.  A few protesters making the torch relay difficult?  Meh.  Affecting the green lining of their pockets?  Message delivered.

Summer Olympics?  Consider it done.  They could have the Summer Olympics in Iceland and I wouldn't watch them. smile
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« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2008, 11:26:06 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on April 08, 2008, 05:48:43 PM

Bush would never boycott the Olympics in China, simply because his administration doesn't actually object to anything they are doing, like civil rights abuses, illegal detention, or torture.


It's kind of hard to object when he's doing the same thing.  smile
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« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2008, 05:21:16 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on April 08, 2008, 05:48:43 PM

Bush would never boycott the Olympics in China, simply because his administration doesn't actually object to anything they are doing, like civil rights abuses, illegal detention, or torture.

Sure, they talk a good game as usual, but everyone in the world knows the score.

So you just want to tell all the athletes who have worked for years to qualify for the Olympics to just take a flying leap over politics?  Especially the ones for whom this is their one and only chance, ever, to represent their country in the Olympics?  Wow.
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« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2008, 06:40:00 AM »

Quote from: pr0ner on April 09, 2008, 05:21:16 AM

Quote from: unbreakable on April 08, 2008, 05:48:43 PM

Bush would never boycott the Olympics in China, simply because his administration doesn't actually object to anything they are doing, like civil rights abuses, illegal detention, or torture.

Sure, they talk a good game as usual, but everyone in the world knows the score.

So you just want to tell all the athletes who have worked for years to qualify for the Olympics to just take a flying leap over politics?  Especially the ones for whom this is their one and only chance, ever, to represent their country in the Olympics?  Wow.

I'd rather my Canadian athletes not compete in Beijing. We can all agree to place blame on the IOC anyways. The times they'd decided to meddle in politics with their choices - not just this year but with Mexico and the PRE dominated Mexican government - its only been disaster. Yeah, it'll hurt the athletes, but if the IOC had any spine they'd cancel this years games and hold them in another country that has proven itself equal to the spirit of the games - such as Australia or Greece, both of which would be acceptable replacements, even if we might have to postpone the game a wee bit.
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« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2008, 08:02:14 AM »

Quote from: storz on April 08, 2008, 04:26:39 PM



I absolutely agree. 


Tell me he isn't really attacking a woman in a wheelchair-that is just sad.  I'm all for showing up and protesting and waving placards and putting up embarassing "Free Tibet" banners in strategic locations like they did in Paris-but to actually attack the runners-that's just disgusting.

I thought it was funny that some of the protesters were suggesting boycotting Chinese goods-I bet not one of them was wearing a pair of shoes that weren't made in China.
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storz
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« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2008, 11:24:15 AM »

Quote from: Canuck on April 09, 2008, 08:02:14 AM

Quote from: storz on April 08, 2008, 04:26:39 PM



I absolutely agree. 


Tell me he isn't really attacking a woman in a wheelchair-that is just sad.  I'm all for showing up and protesting and waving placards and putting up embarassing "Free Tibet" banners in strategic locations like they did in Paris-but to actually attack the runners-that's just disgusting.

I thought it was funny that some of the protesters were suggesting boycotting Chinese goods-I bet not one of them was wearing a pair of shoes that weren't made in China.

Well, I think that's why I find the protest in Paris is going too far and it hurts the original protesting message.  BTW, the women is in a wheelchair and only has 1 leg, and the man who is behind wheelchair is a blind athlete.  To protest and attack disabled person carrying the torch is just very low. 
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Blackadar
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« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2008, 12:55:32 PM »

Well, to be fair, I don't think they're trying to attack the person, but the torch they're carrying.  Doesn't make it much better, though...
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Moliere
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« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2008, 11:32:59 PM »



We're loud and we're proud!

I guess we've passed the rational dialogue phase of the discussion?
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« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2008, 05:45:27 AM »

I bet 98% of these protesters, native Tibetans included, have no idea about the Tibetan government was like before the Chinese came in.
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« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2008, 05:51:36 AM »

Quote from: SuperHiro on April 10, 2008, 05:45:27 AM

I bet 98% of these protesters, native Tibetans included, have no idea about the Tibetan government was like before the Chinese came in.


So you're saying any new Tibetan government is bound to become a theocratic nation like it was?
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