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Author Topic: Obama Ineligible to be President?  (Read 3533 times)
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ATB
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« on: October 24, 2008, 11:53:44 PM »

Quote
ELECTION 2008
Obama 'admits' Kenyan birth?
Campaign doesn't respond to claims in lawsuit over birth certificate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: October 21, 2008
9:22 pm Eastern


By Drew Zahn
2008 WorldNetDaily



Philip J. Berg

Pennsylvania Democrat Philip J. Berg, who filed a lawsuit demanding Sen. Barack Obama present proof of his American citizenship, now says that by failing to respond Obama has legally "admitted" to the lawsuit's accusations, including the charge that the Democratic candidate was born in Mombosa, Kenya.

As WND reported, Berg filed suit in U.S. District Court in August, alleging Obama is not a natural-born citizen and is thus ineligible to serve as president of the United States. Though Obama has posted an image of a Hawaii birth certificate online, Berg demands that the court verify the original document, which the Obama campaign has not provided.

Now Berg cites Rule 36 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which states that unless the accused party provides written answer or objection to charges within 30 days, the accused legally admits the matter.

Since Obama has only filed motions to dismiss and has not actually answered the charges in the lawsuit, Berg claims, according to Rule 36, Obama has legally admitted he is not a natural-born citizen.

Now Berg is asking the court for a formal declaration of Obama's admission and asking the Democratic National Committee for another presidential candidate.

In a statement released today, Berg argues that he filed Requests for Admissions on Sept. 15, meaning Obama had until Oct. 15 to answer or face the consequences of Rule 36.

"Obama and the DNC 'admitted,' by way of failure to timely respond to Requests for Admissions, all of the numerous specific requests in the Federal lawsuit," Berg's statement reads. "Obama is 'not qualified' to be president and therefore Obama must immediately withdraw his candidacy for president and the DNC shall substitute a qualified candidate."

I don't know much about the source, but it seems legit.

It's my understanding that you have to be a US citizen to be president not that you have to be born on US soil.  I belive Obama's dad was Nigerian, but isn't his mother a US Citizen?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 01:20:27 PM by SensuousLettuce » Logged
Jaddison
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2008, 11:57:15 PM »

Do some research, this has been debunked and discredited and Berg is a whacko...just a little research would have revealed some of the crap he has pedaled in the past.
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2008, 12:03:52 AM »

If only.
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2008, 12:22:18 AM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on October 24, 2008, 11:53:44 PM

It's my understanding that you have to be a US citizen to be president not that you have to be born on US soil.  I belive Obama's dad was Nigerian, but isn't his mother a US Citizen?
That Berg dude's a nut. And he's a democrat? WTF?

And yes, you do not have to be born on American soil to become president, but at least one of your parents needs to be a citizen of the US at the time of your birth.
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Mr. Fed
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2008, 12:31:40 AM »

Among all the reasons this is bullshit:

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Now Berg cites Rule 36 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which states that unless the accused party provides written answer or objection to charges within 30 days, the accused legally admits the matter.

Since Obama has only filed motions to dismiss and has not actually answered the charges in the lawsuit, Berg claims, according to Rule 36, Obama has legally admitted he is not a natural-born citizen.

Only someone who is legally illiterate would accept this.  A first-year, first-day-of-civil-procedure student would know it is incorrect.  A motion to dismiss satisfies the obligation to file an answer.  Moreover, Rule 36 is about Requests for Admission, an discovery device, not about responding to complaints.  A plaintiff can't file requests for admission on a defendant until after the Rule 26 scheduling conference, which has not yet occurred.
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2008, 01:17:43 AM »

Quote from: Mr. Fed on October 25, 2008, 12:31:40 AM

Among all the reasons this is bullshit:

Quote
Now Berg cites Rule 36 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which states that unless the accused party provides written answer or objection to charges within 30 days, the accused legally admits the matter.

Since Obama has only filed motions to dismiss and has not actually answered the charges in the lawsuit, Berg claims, according to Rule 36, Obama has legally admitted he is not a natural-born citizen.

Only someone who is legally illiterate would accept this.  A first-year, first-day-of-civil-procedure student would know it is incorrect.  A motion to dismiss satisfies the obligation to file an answer.  Moreover, Rule 36 is about Requests for Admission, an discovery device, not about responding to complaints.  A plaintiff can't file requests for admission on a defendant until after the Rule 26 scheduling conference, which has not yet occurred.

where does Order 66 fit into all that?
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Lee
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2008, 02:29:16 AM »

No offense to ATB but it scares me how people believe everything they get in their inbox. I work with a bunch of college educated people, and they all really seem to believe everything they see. If I ever feel inclined to forward anything, I research first.
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2008, 04:18:33 AM »

Quote from: Mr. Fed on October 25, 2008, 12:31:40 AM

Only someone who is legally illiterate would accept this.  A first-year, first-day-of-civil-procedure student would know it is incorrect.

Mr. Berg is purportedly a former deputy AG from the great state of Pennsylvania.  I guess they don't validate your legal literacy out there.

If we're to practice the doctrine of equivalency here, let's point out that elderly white man John McCain may not actually be a natural-born citizen of the United States of America, though he certainly fits in well in Arizona, so we might as well just give it to 'im.  Close enough!
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2008, 06:00:55 AM »

Here's some more great Obama conspiracy theories:  http://jonswift.blogspot.com/2008/10/great-moments-in-election-year-blogging.html
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2008, 06:40:10 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on October 25, 2008, 04:18:33 AM

Quote from: Mr. Fed on October 25, 2008, 12:31:40 AM

Only someone who is legally illiterate would accept this.  A first-year, first-day-of-civil-procedure student would know it is incorrect.

Mr. Berg is purportedly a former deputy AG from the great state of Pennsylvania.  I guess they don't validate your legal literacy out there.

If we're to practice the doctrine of equivalency here, let's point out that elderly white man John McCain may not actually be a natural-born citizen of the United States of America, though he certainly fits in well in Arizona, so we might as well just give it to 'im.  Close enough!
Holy shit.
My whole life, I'd learned that you had to be born in the US to run for President. In other words, I CAN run if McCain can!
It's too bad about that whole "affiliated with communists, socialists, and anarchists" thing, though.

Maybe I'll run on the Anarchist ticket.
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ATB
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2008, 01:22:27 PM »

Quote from: Lee on October 25, 2008, 02:29:16 AM

No offense to ATB but it scares me how people believe everything they get in their inbox. I work with a bunch of college educated people, and they all really seem to believe everything they see. If I ever feel inclined to forward anything, I research first.

Well, offense taken.  This thread is my research.  It's called the Ike Vandergraaf method.
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Jaddison
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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2008, 02:00:13 PM »

Well you post something from Worldnetdaily which has been running everything and anything about Obama no matter how outlandish.

Then there is this about Berg

"So who is Philip J. Berg?    He's a former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania; former candidate for Governor and U.S. Senate in Democratic Primaries; former Chair of the Democratic Party in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania; former member of the Pennsylvania Democratic State Committee; an attorney with offices in Montgomery County, PA and an active practice in Philadelphia, PA.     In 2005 he was fined and sanctioned $10,000 for having committed a "laundry list of unethical actions."

    ""Other attorneys should look to Mr. Berg's actions as a blueprint for what not to do when attempting to effectively and honorably perform the duties of the legal profession," Joyner wrote.

    "This court has grown weary of Mr. Berg's continuous and brazen disrespect toward this court and his own clients. Mr. Berg's actions ... are an enormous waste of judicial time and resources that this court cannot, in good conscience, allow to go unpunished," Joyner wrote."

He's also a 9/11 "truther" and Clinton "supporter" who has been making weird claims and demands against Sen. Obama for a while"

Berg's accusations and legal actions have torn to shreds including the "experts" he cites in his filing who have dissected the online COLB and found it a forgery.

Why not just go for the gusto and make your own claim up that he is under the control of alien overlords or better yet Xenu or whatever that Scientoligist evil guy is.
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ATB
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2008, 02:48:53 PM »

1. Don't be an <insult of your own creation that best suits your biases but fully conveys that you understand that you're not as tolerant and open minded as much as you think you are>

2. Remember this from the OP?

Quote
I don't know much about the source, but it seems legit.

3. Remember my posts saying I'm probably voting for Obama but am legitimately conflicted about it?  That's why I've posted this here.

4. Find any proof whatsoever that I've said anything negative about Obama at all ever.  Use the forum's handy search feature in your futile attempt.

5. So this is what obama supporters are like? Is this the 'change' he's talking about? Going from neo-con hate mongering to liberal hate mongering?

6. Don't be an <insult of your own creation that best suits your biases but fully conveys that you understand that you're not as tolerant and open minded as much as you think you are>

Edited at request of mods.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 04:17:27 PM by SensuousLettuce » Logged
Jaddison
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« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2008, 03:30:15 PM »

Hate mongering?  You post this Berg stuff with no comment which I would think implies you believe it is a serious matter and the responses are "hate mongering".  Clearly we do not share a common understanding of what hate mongering means.
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« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2008, 04:00:39 PM »

This election has brought out the absolute worst in people.  I'm shocked at all of the people that I work with that I've suddenly discovered are deeply hateful and racist without so much as any indication of it in the last 6 years.  People are yelling "Hang Obama!" at McCain's rallys, some girl got her face sliced with a reverse B so she'll see Barack when she looks in the mirror.  What the hell happened to this country?!
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ATB
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« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2008, 04:12:25 PM »

Quote from: Jaddison on October 25, 2008, 03:30:15 PM

You post this Berg stuff with no comment

No comment like 'I'm don't know about the source' and then asking what the rules were?

Quote
which I would think implies


That I don't know about the source or what the rules are?  Not a hard leap in logic is it?  Also, note the question mark in the thread title.  No exclamation point or 'Here's hoping this is true' or 'Obama is a muslim born in kenya' rhetoric

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on October 25, 2008, 04:00:39 PM

some girl got her face sliced with a reverse B so she'll see Barack when she looks in the mirror.

That was a hoax and she's admitted as such.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 04:16:18 PM by SensuousLettuce » Logged
Razgon
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« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2008, 04:21:58 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on October 25, 2008, 04:00:39 PM

This election has brought out the absolute worst in people.  I'm shocked at all of the people that I work with that I've suddenly discovered are deeply hateful and racist without so much as any indication of it in the last 6 years.  People are yelling "Hang Obama!" at McCain's rallys, some girl got her face sliced with a reverse B so she'll see Barack when she looks in the mirror.  What the hell happened to this country?!

I can tell just from the from the forums, that you are absolutely right... crazy world, but appearently, this one election is so damned important to everyone it seems, moreso than normal...I dont get it..
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« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2008, 04:28:14 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on October 25, 2008, 04:00:39 PM

This election has brought out the absolute worst in people.  I'm shocked at all of the people that I work with that I've suddenly discovered are deeply hateful and racist without so much as any indication of it in the last 6 years.  People are yelling "Hang Obama!" at McCain's rallys, some girl got her face sliced with a reverse B so she'll see Barack when she looks in the mirror.  What the hell happened to this country?!

That whole attack with the reverse B was made up, Ron.  Didn't you hear that already? Tongue
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« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2008, 04:46:44 PM »

It seems to me that ATB came upon an issue which appeared to have some semblance of credibility, and rather than blindly accepting it at face value, decided to seek more information by raising questions on a politically active forum.

Since I think we can all agree he's acted in a pretty responsible fashion so far, I don't understand why there seems to be so much hostility towards the topic.

Quote from: pr0ner
That whole attack with the reverse B was made up, Ron.  Didn't you hear that already? Tongue

My favorite part of that story is the girl's explanation that her story "snowballed out of control."

Considering that the entire premise of her claim -- that she was savagely assaulted by a big black guy -- was a complete race-baiting fabrication, at what point *after* that decision does she feel the situation "snowballed out of control?"

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2008, 05:10:04 PM »

Well AA from my perspective someone "found" something "interesting" on Worldviewnet which means they went somewhere on the net to find it.....to post it here to find out more info seems a little disingenuous.  If you can find that article how hard would it be to Google the subject and do a little reading before posting it?

I still don't see any "hate mongering" but again perhaps that word has different definitions.
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« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2008, 05:11:43 PM »

Interesting thing about the Pittsburgh incident is that the local McCain campaign head took the initial story and then started embellishing without any facts to back him up.  The police kept saying they had nothing that supported what the guy was saying much less the girl.
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ATB
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« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2008, 05:32:29 PM »

Quote from: Jaddison on October 25, 2008, 05:10:04 PM

Well AA from my perspective someone "found" something "interesting" on Worldviewnet which means they went somewhere on the net to find it.....to post it here to find out more info seems a little disingenuous.  If you can find that article how hard would it be to Google the subject and do a little reading before posting it?


Boy, before this thread spins into a typical loop, I'll call it a halt to the discussion with this: are there any threads on a forum that someone couldn't otherwise research before posting?  And again, you ignore the evidence to the contrary like question marks and clear verbiage about my understanding the source.  It's okay to admit it when you're wrong.
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« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2008, 05:55:38 PM »

Quote from: Jaddison
Well AA from my perspective someone "found" something "interesting" on Worldviewnet which means they went somewhere on the net to find it.....to post it here to find out more info seems a little disingenuous.

Where else should he post it?  The WorldNetDaily forums?  One of the other Conservative websites that have been spending all day, every day trying to portray Barack Obama as a fanatical far-right Muslim fascist *and* a lunatic far-left anti-white socialist?  The Conservative movement has put a tremendous amount of effort into generating as much static as possible, deliberately keeping people disoriented.

ATB posted here because he has long standing ties to this site and the people who post here, and he knew that he could get straight information.  And he was right.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I truly don't believe that he was posting that article here in an attempt to spread a specious lie.  He presented the entire article, in context, along with its source, and he hasn't tried to dismiss any of the facts which disprove its claims...at the very least, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. thumbsup

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2008, 09:38:46 PM »

I'm pretty sure I saw that the lawsuit was dismissed today.  I'm posting from my phone and can't link well tho.
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« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2008, 11:08:05 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on October 25, 2008, 05:32:29 PM

Quote from: Jaddison on October 25, 2008, 05:10:04 PM

Well AA from my perspective someone "found" something "interesting" on Worldviewnet which means they went somewhere on the net to find it.....to post it here to find out more info seems a little disingenuous.  If you can find that article how hard would it be to Google the subject and do a little reading before posting it?


Boy, before this thread spins into a typical loop, I'll call it a halt to the discussion with this: are there any threads on a forum that someone couldn't otherwise research before posting?  And again, you ignore the evidence to the contrary like question marks and clear verbiage about my understanding the source.  It's okay to admit it when you're wrong.

Sure.  If you wanted to post a story about what happened in your day, you can't exactly research that first.  Tongue
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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2008, 12:02:30 AM »

Post whatever you want.  I STILL don't understand why, since you must have used the web to get the story from Worldnewsnet, you wouldn't look for other articles that might give you the info you are seeking here.

Is not legitimate to ask why you just stopped at that story?  I still don't think I was practicing hate mongering but beauty and hate mongering are in the eye of the beholder.

So if I posted a story about how Trig is not really Palin's baby everyone would just figure i was curious?
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« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2008, 04:12:02 AM »

Quote from: Pyperkub on October 25, 2008, 09:38:46 PM

I'm pretty sure I saw that the lawsuit was dismissed today.  I'm posting from my phone and can't link well tho.

Yep, the loonies lose again.

As of this writing, John McCain's citizenship remains in doubt.   icon_wink
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« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2008, 04:25:20 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on October 26, 2008, 04:12:02 AM

Quote from: Pyperkub on October 25, 2008, 09:38:46 PM

I'm pretty sure I saw that the lawsuit was dismissed today.  I'm posting from my phone and can't link well tho.

Yep, the loonies lose again.

As of this writing, John McCain's citizenship remains in doubt.   icon_wink

Tongue
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brettmcd
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« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2008, 04:26:34 AM »

Well to be totally honest the judge didnt rule on the merits of the case one way or the other, just to say that Berg doesnt have the standing to bring the case forward.
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« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2008, 04:54:06 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on October 26, 2008, 04:26:34 AM

Well to be totally honest the judge didnt rule on the merits of the case one way or the other, just to say that Berg doesnt have the standing to bring the case forward.

What do you think of the merits of the case?

Ale
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« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2008, 05:05:00 PM »

I haven't read this thread, but wasn't McCain born outside of the US?
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« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2008, 12:20:49 AM »

Quote from: leo8877 on October 26, 2008, 05:05:00 PM

I haven't read this thread, but wasn't McCain born outside of the US?

John McCain, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and is the Republican nominee in 2008, was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. Although the Panama Canal Zone was not considered to be part of the United States,[7] federal law states: "Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States."[8] The law that conferred this status took effect on August 4, 1937, one year after John McCain was born albeit with retroactive effect, resulting in McCain being declared a U.S. citizen.[9]

It's pure bullshit to bring up the issue for McCain and Obama though, and I wish the issue would die.
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« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2008, 12:54:34 AM »

Is the income tax illegal because Ohio wasn't a state when the 16th amendment was ratified?

Same thing. Except more fun to read.
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« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2008, 01:33:49 AM »

Quote from: CSL on October 27, 2008, 12:20:49 AM

Quote from: leo8877 on October 26, 2008, 05:05:00 PM

I haven't read this thread, but wasn't McCain born outside of the US?

John McCain, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and is the Republican nominee in 2008, was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. Although the Panama Canal Zone was not considered to be part of the United States,[7] federal law states: "Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States."[8] The law that conferred this status took effect on August 4, 1937, one year after John McCain was born albeit with retroactive effect, resulting in McCain being declared a U.S. citizen.[9]

The question that the conspiracy theorists bring up is not whether McCain is a citizen.  Clearly, he is.  However, he may not be a "natural born" citizen.

Quote
Senator McCain was born in 1936 in the Canal Zone to U.S. citizen parents. The Canal Zone was territory controlled by the United States, but it was not incorporated into the Union. As requested by Senator McCain's campaign, distinguished constitutional lawyers Laurence Tribe and Theodore Olson examined the law and issued a detailed opinion offering two reasons that Senator McCain was a natural born citizen. Neither is sound under current law. The Tribe-Olson Opinion suggests that the Canal Zone, then under exclusive U.S. jurisdiction, may have been covered by the Fourteenth Amendment's grant of citizenship to "all persons born . . . in the United States." However, in the Insular Cases, the Supreme Court held that "unincorporated territories" were not part of the United States for constitutional purposes. Accordingly, many decisions hold that persons born in unincorporated territories are not Fourteenth Amendment citizens. The Tribe-Olson Opinion also suggests that Senator McCain obtained citizenship by statute. However, the only statute in effect in 1936 did not cover the Canal Zone. Recognizing the gap, in 1937, Congress passed a citizenship law applicable only to the Canal Zone, granting Senator McCain citizenship, but eleven months too late for him to be a citizen at birth. Because Senator John McCain was not a citizen at birth, he is not a "natural born Citizen" and thus is not "eligible to the Office of President" under the Constitution.

Not that it'd matter anyway, as I'm sure the courts would go to great lengths to avoid offering a conclusive opinion on the subject.
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« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2008, 01:39:42 AM »

I'm not voting for McCain, but even I agree he's eligible for the presidency.

The Obama thing is just plain stupid though.  Are they really that desperate?
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« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2008, 01:46:48 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on October 27, 2008, 01:39:42 AM

The Obama thing is just plain stupid though.  Are they really that desperate?

Yes.
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« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2008, 03:03:28 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on October 27, 2008, 01:46:48 AM

Quote from: Turtle on October 27, 2008, 01:39:42 AM

The Obama thing is just plain stupid though.  Are they really that desperate?

Yes.

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« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2008, 03:11:28 PM »

I don't think Berg is a "they" in any real sense.  He seems to just be sort of an unhinged loon who likes to file suit on some high profile things.
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« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2008, 03:19:13 PM »

Quote from: Jaddison on October 27, 2008, 03:11:28 PM

I don't think Berg is a "they" in any real sense.  He seems to just be sort of an unhinged loon who likes to file suit on some high profile things.

Berg's just the public face of a broader faction of dimwits; plenty more of it lurking around.
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