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Author Topic: Obama 1, Osama 0.  (Read 3202 times)
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Darkstar One
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« on: May 02, 2011, 08:50:37 AM »

Here's hoping that the motherf****r was bathed in pig blood and buried in pig skin.
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2011, 12:38:47 PM »

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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2011, 12:46:03 PM »

Good for Obama.  We already have a Bin Laden thread in the General Forum.  Perhaps we can use this one to compare the accomplishments of Obama v Dubya? biggrin
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2011, 01:01:39 PM »

Odd. I would have thought the US would have wanted to use non-lethal so he could stand trial and THEN be put to death. To me this seems fishy. (pun intended)

Pictures of elated people over a death isn't right. I can understand why Obama didn't seem elated in his speech. This doesn't fix the problem - it simply doles out a death sentence for a 10 year old crime, and provides a martyrdom.
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2011, 01:34:07 PM »

Quote from: Purge on May 02, 2011, 01:01:39 PM

Odd. I would have thought the US would have wanted to use non-lethal so he could stand trial and THEN be put to death. To me this seems fishy. (pun intended)

Pictures of elated people over a death isn't right. I can understand why Obama didn't seem elated in his speech. This doesn't fix the problem - it simply doles out a death sentence for a 10 year old crime, and provides a martyrdom.

Reports seem to indicate that first priority was capture, but it wasn't in the cards.

EDIT: well, actually this report is now saying they intended it as a kill mission all along
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/02/bin.laden.dead/index.html?on.cnn=1

I kind of agree with you regarding the cheering crowds. When they showed cheering crowds during 9/11, my thought wasn't, "I can't wait until we take them out so we can cheer in the streets too," it was, "we're better than that."
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2011, 02:07:53 PM »

Quote from: Purge on May 02, 2011, 01:01:39 PM

Pictures of elated people over a death isn't right. I can understand why Obama didn't seem elated in his speech. This doesn't fix the problem - it simply doles out a death sentence for a 10 year old crime, and provides a martyrdom.

Obama acted like a statesman with every carefully chosen word.  I thought he handled it in a dignified manner.  Beyond being simply in poor taste, people cheering in the streets over the death of one man gives that man more power in death than he deserves.
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2011, 02:20:44 PM »

Quote from: Purge on May 02, 2011, 01:01:39 PM

Odd. I would have thought the US would have wanted to use non-lethal so he could stand trial and THEN be put to death. To me this seems fishy. (pun intended)

dude, if you ever saw G.I. Joe you'd know that everytime they captured Cobra Commander the rest of Cobra would inevitably break him out from whatever elaborate prison they put him in, so I applaud them saving the taxpayers money.
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2011, 02:52:17 PM »

So the Fox News website has a picture of Bush and a leading article about *his* statement, and the word "Obama" is only found once on the page, under "In the News." How... expected.
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2011, 02:59:36 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on May 02, 2011, 02:52:17 PM

So the Fox News website has a picture of Bush and a leading article about *his* statement, and the word "Obama" is only found once on the page, under "In the News." How... expected.

It's funny how it only took him a week to get this done.

Also, it takes less time to have a bullet passed than a bill.
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2011, 03:05:42 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on May 02, 2011, 02:52:17 PM

So the Fox News website has a picture of Bush and a leading article about *his* statement, and the word "Obama" is only found once on the page, under "In the News." How... expected.

hey, from this post:

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on May 02, 2011, 05:18:21 AM


you nnever know, they could be mentioning Obama a lot  icon_wink
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2011, 04:12:11 PM »

Quote from: Purge on May 02, 2011, 01:01:39 PM

Odd. I would have thought the US would have wanted to use non-lethal so he could stand trial and THEN be put to death. To me this seems fishy. (pun intended)

Pictures of elated people over a death isn't right. I can understand why Obama didn't seem elated in his speech. This doesn't fix the problem - it simply doles out a death sentence for a 10 year old crime, and provides a martyrdom.

It is better that he is dead. Can you imagine the security nightmare if we had captured him and locked him up somewhere? As for the celebration.....why not. He directly caused perhaps more pain in this country than anyone since Pearl Harbor.
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2011, 04:43:23 PM »

Quote from: Scuzz on May 02, 2011, 04:12:11 PM

Quote from: Purge on May 02, 2011, 01:01:39 PM

Odd. I would have thought the US would have wanted to use non-lethal so he could stand trial and THEN be put to death. To me this seems fishy. (pun intended)

Pictures of elated people over a death isn't right. I can understand why Obama didn't seem elated in his speech. This doesn't fix the problem - it simply doles out a death sentence for a 10 year old crime, and provides a martyrdom.

It is better that he is dead. Can you imagine the security nightmare if we had captured him and locked him up somewhere? As for the celebration.....why not. He directly caused perhaps more pain in this country than anyone since Pearl Harbor.

More.  More people died than in Pearl (3,000 vs 2,400) and they were all civilians.  I'd say of the last 100 years, possibly only the JFK assassination carries the same emotional weight as 9/11. 
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2011, 05:44:04 PM »

Appropriate here too. Tongue

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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2011, 06:01:38 PM »

FOX News is now reporting that last night an African American confessed to murdering a elderly homeless man.
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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2011, 06:07:45 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on May 02, 2011, 06:01:38 PM

FOX News is now reporting that last night an African American confessed to murdering a elderly homeless man.

 icon_lol icon_lol icon_lol icon_lol
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2011, 06:53:50 PM »

 
Yeah, I realize they're a Fox affiliate, not Fox News, but still  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2011, 09:26:16 PM »

Quote from: Flatlander on May 02, 2011, 06:53:50 PM

 
Yeah, I realize they're a Fox affiliate, not Fox News, but still  Roll Eyes

my city's affiliate nonetheless biggrin
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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2011, 04:58:08 PM »

Responding from the other non-R&P thread:

Quote from: raydude on May 03, 2011, 12:04:01 PM

Quote from: Purge on May 03, 2011, 04:26:04 AM


As an outsider though, I see it as fresh kindling on an old fire that's been burning since the cold war. The perception of US foreign policy needs to be changed. This? It's not really a whooping and hollering event IMHO. There is a reparation that needs to bridge the gap between those groups who feel wronged by the US using them as military pawns in the cold war and then abandoning them. The culture clash is hard enough, but middle-east dabbling has gone on for so long and it's not something that's worked well.

People are people.

Look at it from the perspective of other celebrations then, both in the US and abroad. Was there video of people shooting guns in the air? Nope. Was there looting and rioting (as there are after Championship games)? Nope. Were there people burning flags of Muslim countries or shouting anti-Muslim or anti-Arabic slogans? Nope.

I'd say, judging against the way other people celebrate killings or major events, this celebration was pretty tame.

That isn't a justification that stands up well. Its really no different then having the WBC showing up to a funeral. There's a fine line between relief or satisfaction that justice has been served, and this.

Remember, there were people who were willing to fly, and die to execute those attacks. They had friends and family as well, and as twisted as they had become (possibly due to conditioning and/or "brainwashing") they thought they were doing right (and that is ignoring the tinfoil conspiracies that Osama wasn't involved / was a puppet).

From their perspective, America is the Empire. They celebrated the fall of the death star, and you just killed their Luke. Yes, it's a simplification and the analogy has many limits, but ultimately the gravitas of the situation has been completely missed by the visible celebrations. Consider the beachball wielding college-aged folks were mere children, and with 300,000,000 US populace and and ~.00001% killed; the perspective is the family and friends of the 3000 people (including people from all over the world including Canada) being directly impacted.

Its no different then seeing (10 years ago) a bunch of Muslim kids dancing on burning flags in the streets because their inherited "cause" has been furthered. The celebration doesn't just impact those who saw Osama as a hero, it also is a rowdy (and grossly inappropriate) party to those who mourn their lost friends and family during the 9/11 attacks.

What have people learned?  

As to the point above about guns, is your culture moved that far from whoopin' and hollerin' and firing pistols in the air? Consider the law here and there. They may not be as modern as us "westerners" but they also have lived in squalor and been kicked and beaten like serfs and used by unstoppable foreign world powers in dirty wars and then left to fend for themselves from military armed forces who have been put in power BY the US and have little respect for human life.

Forced off land and watching your entire families live a refugee life is a pretty big deal, and not putting any thought into those people left is the next wrong step, IMO.

They have a different religion, and thusly a different culture. That doesn't make them any less human, and while some folks are choosing to _celebrate_ the death of a villain, you are kicking those who saw him as a hero. There is a war to be won (the one on terrorism?).

The burial is important. Showing pictures is not. Enjoying a collective sigh of relief is, but I think that the jubilation is part of the fear, something I strongly believe was engineered to control the US population through media. If that hadn't been the push, then I don't think this death would have been celebrated.

Quote from: Scuzz on May 02, 2011, 04:12:11 PM

Quote from: Purge on May 02, 2011, 01:01:39 PM

Odd. I would have thought the US would have wanted to use non-lethal so he could stand trial and THEN be put to death. To me this seems fishy. (pun intended)

Pictures of elated people over a death isn't right. I can understand why Obama didn't seem elated in his speech. This doesn't fix the problem - it simply doles out a death sentence for a 10 year old crime, and provides a martyrdom.

It is better that he is dead. Can you imagine the security nightmare if we had captured him and locked him up somewhere? As for the celebration.....why not. He directly caused perhaps more pain in this country than anyone since Pearl Harbor.

Oh really?

Quote
A 2009 study estimated that lack of insurance is associated with nearly 45,000 deaths a year.[168] In 2006, Massachusetts became the first state to mandate universal health insurance.[169] Federal legislation passed in early 2010 will create a near-universal health insurance system around the country by 2014.
Quote
According to the data from the US Department of Defense, the United States had suffered 33,686 battle deaths, along with 2,830 non-battle deaths during the Korean War and 8,176 missing in action.

Quote from: Vietnam
By war's end, 58,220 soldiers were killed.

My point is this: 3000 lives are a drop in the bucket when it comes to controlling the masses. It was all the media push and the hype that made that event important. If you want to argue attack on civilian targets, look at your uninsured death count PER YEAR. By making that event important it gave people, both local and foreign, an unreasonable grip on the American population.

To me it seems like this is just dancing on the same strings.

edit: I don't want this to seem personal in any way, and I don't think anyone should feel ashamed for relief. But in the grand scheme of things, there is a perspective that is missed.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 05:03:39 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2011, 05:26:24 PM »

Quote from: Purge on May 03, 2011, 04:58:08 PM

My point is this: 3000 lives are a drop in the bucket when it comes to controlling the masses. It was all the media push and the hype that made that event important.

This ridiculous statement completely negates the rest of your post. Which is a shame because I felt you were making some good points and put into words what I was feeling as I watched college kids use his death as an excuse to party in the streets.
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« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2011, 05:36:39 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on May 03, 2011, 05:26:24 PM

Quote from: Purge on May 03, 2011, 04:58:08 PM

My point is this: 3000 lives are a drop in the bucket when it comes to controlling the masses. It was all the media push and the hype that made that event important.

This ridiculous statement completely negates the rest of your post. Which is a shame because I felt you were making some good points and put into words what I was feeling as I watched college kids use his death as an excuse to party in the streets.

Agreed.
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« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2011, 06:00:16 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on May 02, 2011, 02:07:53 PM

Quote from: Purge on May 02, 2011, 01:01:39 PM

Pictures of elated people over a death isn't right. I can understand why Obama didn't seem elated in his speech. This doesn't fix the problem - it simply doles out a death sentence for a 10 year old crime, and provides a martyrdom.

Obama acted like a statesman with every carefully chosen word.  I thought he handled it in a dignified manner.  Beyond being simply in poor taste, people cheering in the streets over the death of one man gives that man more power in death than he deserves.

I disagree with this post 100%

I don't want a "statesman" for a leader who's too PC to show emotion or balls. That doesn't make one a leader, IMO. *

I also prefer to not live in a country so sterile as to not celebrate over the death of this bastard. I can't even stomach the thought.

* I want to add that I thought the Obama Admin did show some balls and leadership in going into Pakistan the way we did and getting this job done, finally.
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« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2011, 06:13:28 PM »

So in short, you want a highly emotional, grudge holding member of the A Team as your president?

Good luck with that.  I'll take the elder statesman/leader over the frat boy/warrior any day of the week.
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« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2011, 07:35:20 PM »

Quote from: msteelers on May 03, 2011, 05:26:24 PM

Quote from: Purge on May 03, 2011, 04:58:08 PM

My point is this: 3000 lives are a drop in the bucket when it comes to controlling the masses. It was all the media push and the hype that made that event important.

This ridiculous statement completely negates the rest of your post. Which is a shame because I felt you were making some good points and put into words what I was feeling as I watched college kids use his death as an excuse to party in the streets.

If I make a bunch of points that you agree with, and then I make one you don't, then you invalidate all of the points I'm making because either you don't get the next step or disagree with it? I'm not going to bother putting effort into showing you what I mean if you're just going to disagree on the basis that looking at headcount isn't a measurement.

You know that managing people means managing numbers, right? Death count matters, and while I don't agree that the entire 9/11 fiasco was staged, it's not beyond plausible. Killing the figurehead without trial certainly isn't going to quiet those accusations (even though he is a known terrorist).

Getting back to the point: in my opinion, the difference between the travesties in the last 100 years compared to modern events are all about the event becoming a key point in peoples personal lives.

Do you remember what you were doing at the ACTUAL time that George Carlin died? No? How about Princess Diana? One had every ounce of press both before, during, and after the tragedy. You *knew* about it, it was a social event, so you remember.

3000 head count is TINY in comparison to either earthquake in Indonesia (2004) or Haiti (2010) which tally up to almost half a million dead combined.

Ok, not American, and not a socially charged subject. Healthcare then? 45000 died in 2009 according to some reports. Even if 10% were actually fully at fault, that is still more people across your nation than two buildings as retaliation from a US trained Muslim extremist group. Both events occurred during the "media age" so you've got your apples there. Problem is, there is no figurehead, and there are so many people who are making tons of money that have a vested interest in that story falling apart.

Fact is, the masses are led. Media frames events and there are those people who work to portray certain events in certain lights. You must be familiar with the addage "The victor writes the history books."

Are you saying this wasn't a historic event?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 07:40:30 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2011, 09:03:07 PM »

I shot an Osama in my pajamas...how he got into my pajamas, I'll never know.
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« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2011, 09:06:29 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on May 03, 2011, 09:03:07 PM

I shot an Osama in my pajamas...how he got into my pajamas, I'll never know.
I warned you you were drinking too much.  I even said 'dude, that bearded woman isn't my sister. I think that's a man' but did you listen?  Noooooo....
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« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2011, 09:14:45 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on May 03, 2011, 06:00:16 PM

Quote from: hepcat on May 02, 2011, 02:07:53 PM

Quote from: Purge on May 02, 2011, 01:01:39 PM

Pictures of elated people over a death isn't right. I can understand why Obama didn't seem elated in his speech. This doesn't fix the problem - it simply doles out a death sentence for a 10 year old crime, and provides a martyrdom.

Obama acted like a statesman with every carefully chosen word.  I thought he handled it in a dignified manner.  Beyond being simply in poor taste, people cheering in the streets over the death of one man gives that man more power in death than he deserves.

I disagree with this post 100%

I don't want a "statesman" for a leader who's too PC to show emotion or balls. That doesn't make one a leader, IMO. *

I also prefer to not live in a country so sterile as to not celebrate over the death of this bastard. I can't even stomach the thought.

* I want to add that I thought the Obama Admin did show some balls and leadership in going into Pakistan the way we did and getting this job done, finally.

Zeke recently you shared you are a Christian.  Did you know that it says in Proverbs 24 verses 17 & 18 states
Quote
17Donít rejoice when your enemies fall;

donít be happy when they stumble.

18For the Lord will be displeased with you

and will turn his anger away from them.

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« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2011, 09:17:42 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on May 03, 2011, 06:13:28 PM

So in short, you want a highly emotional, grudge holding member of the A Team as your president?

Good luck with that.  I'll take the elder statesman/leader over the frat boy/warrior any day of the week.

I'll take Palin, complete with moose-killin' rifle slung over her shoulder  icon_smile

naednek let's go with Christian-leaning, shall we  icon_surprised
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« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2011, 09:21:28 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on May 03, 2011, 09:17:42 PM

Quote from: hepcat on May 03, 2011, 06:13:28 PM

So in short, you want a highly emotional, grudge holding member of the A Team as your president?

Good luck with that.  I'll take the elder statesman/leader over the frat boy/warrior any day of the week.

I'll take Palin, complete with moose-killin' rifle slung over her shoulder  icon_smile

naednek let's go with Christian-leaning, shall we  icon_surprised

you can't pick and choose, you either you are or your not - not when it suits you
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« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2011, 09:24:18 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on May 03, 2011, 09:17:42 PM

Quote from: hepcat on May 03, 2011, 06:13:28 PM

So in short, you want a highly emotional, grudge holding member of the A Team as your president?

Good luck with that.  I'll take the elder statesman/leader over the frat boy/warrior any day of the week.

I'll take Palin, complete with moose-killin' rifle slung over her shoulder  icon_smile

naednek let's go with Christian-leaning, shall we  icon_surprised

I think that were it anyone else in office, GWB, Palin, Clinton, or whomever, they would have handled it the exact same way. It's not about showing balls or emotion. It's about being a diplomat and a politician, whether you or anyone else likes it.
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« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2011, 10:24:51 PM »

Quote from: naednek on May 03, 2011, 09:21:28 PM

you can't pick and choose, you either you are or your not - not when it suits you

Really? So every single Christian you know follows the bible to the letter?
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« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2011, 10:51:42 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on May 03, 2011, 10:24:51 PM

Quote from: naednek on May 03, 2011, 09:21:28 PM

you can't pick and choose, you either you are or your not - not when it suits you

Really? So every single Christian you know follows the bible to the letter?
don't think I ever claimed that.
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« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2011, 11:38:33 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on May 03, 2011, 10:24:51 PM

Quote from: naednek on May 03, 2011, 09:21:28 PM

you can't pick and choose, you either you are or your not - not when it suits you

Really? So every single Christian you know follows the bible to the letter?

Nope, but we're not discussing every single Christian on earth, are we.  We're discussing one person who uses religion to condemn gay marriage since it's against the definition he believes his bible gives him, but then forgets the other chapters when they don't agree with him.  You can choose to follow your religion only some of the time, but don't expect to be taken seriously when you try to use it in a discussion on why you won't even consider the other side of something.  

Quote from: Zekester on May 03, 2011, 09:17:42 PM

I'll take Palin, complete with moose-killin' rifle slung over her shoulder  icon_smile

And I'll take the guy with book learnin'   Tongue
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« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2011, 11:50:43 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on May 03, 2011, 11:38:33 PM

Nope, but we're not discussing every single Christian on earth, are we.  

And this is why this forum sucks. Indeed, you are not discussing every single Christian on earth. You're discussing Zekester, which is your guys' favorite topic. This is the Zekester forum and you guys are his disciples. Have fun at it.
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hepcat
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« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2011, 12:06:07 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on May 03, 2011, 11:50:43 PM

Quote from: hepcat on May 03, 2011, 11:38:33 PM

Nope, but we're not discussing every single Christian on earth, are we.  

And this is why this forum sucks. Indeed, you are not discussing every single Christian on earth. You're discussing Zekester, which is your guys' favorite topic. This is the Zekester forum and you guys are his disciples. Have fun at it.

Well, i guess that's one way of getting out of the discussion when you realize you have nothing to bring to it.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 12:11:00 AM by hepcat » Logged

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Zekester
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« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2011, 12:46:44 AM »

Quote
And I'll take the guy with book learnin'

over a hot gun-toting woman?

Good God, hep.....I think we have never been apart on any subject as much as we are now  icon_razz
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hepcat
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« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2011, 01:25:28 AM »

 icon_lol

Zeke's method of selecting a leader: 

"Can I eat it or have sex with it?  If so, I will follow it!"   icon_wink
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pr0ner
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« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2011, 01:39:32 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on May 04, 2011, 12:06:07 AM

Quote from: cheeba on May 03, 2011, 11:50:43 PM

Quote from: hepcat on May 03, 2011, 11:38:33 PM

Nope, but we're not discussing every single Christian on earth, are we.  

And this is why this forum sucks. Indeed, you are not discussing every single Christian on earth. You're discussing Zekester, which is your guys' favorite topic. This is the Zekester forum and you guys are his disciples. Have fun at it.

Well, i guess that's one way of getting out of the discussion when you realize you have nothing to bring to it.
icon_lol
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cheeba
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« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2011, 02:30:01 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on May 04, 2011, 12:06:07 AM

Well, i guess that's one way of getting out of the discussion when you realize you have nothing to bring to it.

There are much better places to discuss R&P on the web than a Zekester forum.
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hepcat
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« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2011, 02:56:26 AM »

...and yet you're still here.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2011, 03:46:04 AM »

Like it or not, Zekesters vote.  So a discussion of R&P with Zekesters is well and truly fruitful in many ways, you just have to pick which one works for you.
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