Obama (already) plays the race card

[msduncan]

Reuters link

Hey Obama?   F___ you.   

[Blackadar]

Are you just angry because the man is right?  We've already seen numerous examples of it (check out http://www.gamingtrend.com/forums/index.php/topic,27532.0.html).  I'm glad he called them out.

Seriously, I don't think I can even relate to your anger on this one. 

[msduncan]

Are you just angry because the man is right?  We've already seen numerous examples of it (check out http://www.gamingtrend.com/forums/index.php/topic,27532.0.html).  I'm glad he called them out.

Seriously, I don't think I can even relate to your anger on this one. 

I discount what you are saying.   Why?  Because you've twice played the bigot card on me in these forums.
It's ridiculous.

[Brendan]

Funniest thread of the day.

Paraphrasing msduncan:  "It's not okay for Senator Obama to warn people about Republican tactics until we've deployed them more widely."

[msduncan]

Funniest thread of the day.

Paraphrasing msduncan:  "It's not okay for Senator Obama to warn people about Republican tactics until we've deployed them more widely."

It's cheap garbage politics.   The Republicans are NOT making race an issue in this campaign.   The Democrats are.

And as for the vendor selling the button that was posted in the linked thread?   Vendor is exiled and all funds donated to charity

[Captain Caveman]

I don't know how much of this will come directly from the McCain campaign (though already statements claiming Hamas wants Obama to win, and those questioning he and his wife's patriotism, arguably have racial undertones), but there's no denying that there are many efforts that are explicitly attacking Obama on racist grounds. Here's just one recent ugly example.

To be fair, I don't think this is relegated to just Republicans. Many felt the Clinton campaign dipped into these despicable practices as well (e.g., the "as far as I know" moment, Hillary desperately trying to tie Obama to Farakkahn during the debates, the "leak" of the turban pic, Bill's comments, etc).

[Brendan]

msduncan is, as usual, ignoring the evidence in favor of his particular worldview.  McCain proxies are busily stirring up racist insinuations in an effort to frighten white voters.

Let's go with a recent case study.  I wonder what Floyd Brown, of Willie Horton fame, is up to?  Oh, his pro-McCain 527, the National Campaign Fund, has released a new television ad?  Oh, what's it say?  Huh.  Senator Obama is a scary brown-skinned muslim?  I had no idea.

edit:  argh, while painstakingly assembling my snark, Captain Caveman beat me to the link.  Oh well.  I'll throw in a link to the snopes page showing all of the various racist chain letters created by the right.

[brettmcd]

Funniest thread of the day.

Paraphrasing msduncan:  "It's not okay for Senator Obama to warn people about Republican tactics until we've deployed them more widely."

It's cheap garbage politics.   The Republicans are NOT making race an issue in this campaign.   The Democrats are.

And as for the vendor selling the button that was posted in the linked thread?   Vendor is exiled and all funds donated to charity

I already pointed that out in the thread linked before, but of course it was ignored because it differed with their wanting to blame the repub party for that happening.   Sadly im sure the truth about what happened there will be ignored again here.   Quite sad.

[Electronic Dan]

I don't know how much of this will come directly from the McCain campaign (though already statements claiming Hamas wants Obama to win, and those questioning he and his wife's patriotism, arguably have racial undertones), but there's no denying that there are many efforts that are explicitly attacking Obama on racist grounds. Here's just one recent ugly example.

To be fair, I don't think this is relegated to just Republicans. Many felt the Clinton campaign dipped into these despicable practices as well (e.g., the "as far as I know" moment, Hillary desperately trying to tie Obama to Farakkahn during the debates, the "leak" of the turban pic, Bill's comments, etc).

What he said.  Democrats have used the same tactics. McCain will denounce the use of it by Republicans (wink, wink, nod, nod, know what I mean?)

 I see no problem with what Obama said.

[DarkEL]

Here's just one recent ugly example.

Ugh - that video is absolutely horrible. A perfect example of the worst kinds of politics.

I hate to even think of crap like that ever making it onto television.

[Brendan]

Democrats have used the same tactics. McCain will denounce the use of it by Republicans (wink, wink, nod, nod, know what I mean?)

I think it'd be a nod to accuracy to say "the Clinton campaign" rather than "Democrats", as there's only one Democratic presidential candidate whose campaign resorted to those sorts of insinuations.

[DarkEL]

Democrats have used the same tactics. McCain will denounce the use of it by Republicans (wink, wink, nod, nod, know what I mean?)

I think it'd be a nod to accuracy to say "the Clinton campaign" rather than "Democrats", as there's only one Democratic presidential candidate whose campaign resorted to those sorts of insinuations.

Unfortunately we've all seen abuses from both parties using smear campaigns every election year. Perhaps the democrats are cleaner in the presidential campaigns, but I've certainly witnessed some pretty obnoxious politics by both parties for other races.

[cheeba]

all of the various racist chain letters created by the right.

How you endeavor to be so blind I will never understand.

Are you sure the whole "Obama is a muslim" thing was "created by the right?"

As for Obama saying this, yeah I'm not too thrilled with it. But if it helps snip the racist crap from the fringe (and there are racists on both the right and the left, no matter how stupidly blind you are) then I would say it's justified. I'll probably change that opinion if he continues to play the race card, though.

[brettmcd]

One of the things I found amusing about this and another place where Obama is just wrong, is where he considers people talking about his inexperience as a scare tactic.    Sorry but the experience level of the candidate running is a very legitimate issue to discuss, and not a scare tactic at all.    Obama just doesnt think anyone should be able to critisize him on anything I guess.

[Electronic Dan]

Democrats have used the same tactics. McCain will denounce the use of it by Republicans (wink, wink, nod, nod, know what I mean?)

I think it'd be a nod to accuracy to say "the Clinton campaign" rather than "Democrats", as there's only one Democratic presidential candidate whose campaign resorted to those sorts of insinuations.

Jesse Jackson might disagree.

[Brendan]

Are you sure the whole "Obama is a muslim" thing was "created by the right?"

Yes, Cheeba, I'm sure it was created by the right.

This claim, and others similar to it, originated with a Jan. 2007 Insight Magazine article – a publication owned by News World Communications, which also owns the conservative Washington Times newspaper.

"How you endeavor to be so blind, I will never understand."

[Brendan]

Jesse Jackson might disagree.

I'm happy to go refresh my memory of the 84/88 campaigns, but I don't recall any Jackson claims that other candidates were using race against him.  He certainly made general claims about institutional racism.

[helot2000]

One of the things I found amusing about this and another place where Obama is just wrong, is where he considers people talking about his inexperience as a scare tactic.    Sorry but the experience level of the candidate running is a very legitimate issue to discuss, and not a scare tactic at all.   

In 2004, Bush was the most experienced person in the US in the campaign for President, having been at the job for the last 4 year.  We all know how that one turned out.  Help me understand what specific experience prepares a person to be President.  Then look at Lincoln and see how he fits your criterion. 

[brettmcd]

One of the things I found amusing about this and another place where Obama is just wrong, is where he considers people talking about his inexperience as a scare tactic.    Sorry but the experience level of the candidate running is a very legitimate issue to discuss, and not a scare tactic at all.   

In 2004, Bush was the most experienced person in the US in the campaign for President, having been at the job for the last 4 year.  We all know how that one turned out.  Help me understand what specific experience prepares a person to be President.  Then look at Lincoln and see how he fits your criterion. 

I am just saying it is a legitimate issue to bring up, and not just a scare tactic like race or his name can be justifiably called.

[cheeba]

Yes, Cheeba, I'm sure it was created by the right.

This claim, and others similar to it, originated with a Jan. 2007 Insight Magazine article – a publication owned by News World Communications, which also owns the conservative Washington Times newspaper.

"How you endeavor to be so blind, I will never understand."

You're funny. What is the title of that Jan. 2007 Insight Magazine article?

"Hillary's team has questions about Obama's Muslim background"

Quoth the article:

Sources said the background check, conducted by researchers connected to Senator Clinton, disclosed details of Mr. Obama's Muslim past. The sources said the Clinton camp concluded the Illinois Democrat concealed his prior Muslim faith and education.

[Brendan]

You're funny. What is the title of that Jan. 2007 Insight Magazine article?

"Hillary's team has questions about Obama's Muslim background"

Yes, the Clinton opposition research was the catalyst for the article, authored and published first in an acknowledged conservative press publication, which gave it the barest amount of merit to qualify for CNN and other mainstream media outlets because it had been printed somewhere else initially.  There's no question that the Clinton campaign aided and abetted the meme, but the dissemination of what is unquestionably a baseless smear, can be credited to the Rev. Moon's right-wing media empire.

[cheeba]

Yes, the Clinton opposition research was the catalyst for the article, authored and published first in an acknowledged conservative press publication, which gave it the barest amount of merit to qualify for CNN and other mainstream media outlets because it had been printed somewhere else initially.  There's no question that the Clinton campaign aided and abetted the meme, but the dissemination of what is unquestionably a baseless smear, can be credited to the Rev. Moon's right-wing media empire.

Another reason why people gotta come into a political forum with a sense of humor.

Here we have young Brendan who adamantly argues that this shit about Obama being a muslim was created by the right. He also argues that Hillary Clinton, who was arguably for a time the leading vote-getter for the Democratic primary, is not representative of the left at all, even though these idiots who created some bad ad on the right apparently do represent the right. He then admits the "catalyst" for this shit about Obama being a muslim was the people on the left. But dammit, the real problem is the right who printed the shit that was dug up by the left!

Hi-larious!

[Electronic Dan]

Jesse Jackson might disagree.

I'm happy to go refresh my memory of the 84/88 campaigns, but I don't recall any Jackson claims that other candidates were using race against him.  He certainly made general claims about institutional racism.

You think McCain's going to use race against Obama, or will it be other non-candidate Republicans?

[helot2000]

"It is going to be very difficult for Republicans to run on their stewardship of the economy or their outstanding foreign policy," Obama told a fundraiser in Jacksonville, Florida. "We know what kind of campaign they're going to run. They're going to try to make you afraid.

Here's an idea, ms...start a thread on McCain that puts the lie to Obama's quote above.  Tell us something about your guy that would or should encourage the fence sitters to your position.  It's only fair that I assign myself an equally challenging task so I will watch patiently the next five months to see if Republicans run a campaign based on (1) substance or (2) making voters afraid.  I'm hopeful with McCain that it will be more of (1) than (2) but too many Republicans learned the wrong lessons from Rove. 

[Brendan]

Yes, the Clinton opposition research was the catalyst for the article, authored and published first in an acknowledged conservative press publication, which gave it the barest amount of merit to qualify for CNN and other mainstream media outlets because it had been printed somewhere else initially.  There's no question that the Clinton campaign aided and abetted the meme, but the dissemination of what is unquestionably a baseless smear, can be credited to the Rev. Moon's right-wing media empire.

Another reason why people gotta come into a political forum with a sense of humor.

Here we have young Brendan who adamantly argues that this shit about Obama being a muslim was created by the right. He also argues that Hillary Clinton, who was arguably for a time the leading vote-getter for the Democratic primary, is not representative of the left at all, even though these idiots who created some bad ad on the right apparently do represent the right. He then admits the "catalyst" for this shit about Obama being a muslim was the people on the left. But dammit, the real problem is the right who printed the shit that was dug up by the left!

Ah, Cheeba, you certainly do attempt to stump for your losing causes.  Floyd Brown, doesn't just "apparently" represent the right.  He ran the largest campus republican organization in the country for five years, was the director of the Reagan Ranch, served on the RNC Platform Committee, and most famously, created the Willie Horton ads that helped sink Dukakis.  His 527 that's airing this ad has spent money on behalf of only two candidates - Giuliani and McCain.

I'll certainly give republicans credit for their fear-mongering skills - when they see an opportunity, they take it.  SBVFT certainly cost Kerry votes, and this continued low-level "muslim" narrative will cost Obama votes.

[Brendan]

Jesse Jackson might disagree.

I'm happy to go refresh my memory of the 84/88 campaigns, but I don't recall any Jackson claims that other candidates were using race against him.  He certainly made general claims about institutional racism.

You think McCain's going to use race against Obama, or will it be other non-candidate Republicans?

I'm certain McCain won't say anything - it'll be oblique comments by low-level party functionaries and, of course, grassroots whisper campaigns, primarily via email and talk radio.

My earlier point was simply that, in this election, the only Democratic candidate to use racist smears towards Obama was Clinton - not Edwards, Dodd, Richardson, etc, etc.  I thought you were trying to make the point that Jackson was attacked in the same fashion by other Democratic candidates in his previous runs - maybe that's not what you were alluding to?

[Electronic Dan]

Jesse Jackson might disagree.

I'm happy to go refresh my memory of the 84/88 campaigns, but I don't recall any Jackson claims that other candidates were using race against him.  He certainly made general claims about institutional racism.

You think McCain's going to use race against Obama, or will it be other non-candidate Republicans?

I'm certain McCain won't say anything - it'll be oblique comments by low-level party functionaries and, of course, grassroots whisper campaigns, primarily via email and talk radio.

My earlier point was simply that, in this election, the only Democratic candidate to use racist smears towards Obama was Clinton - not Edwards, Dodd, Richardson, etc, etc.  I thought you were trying to make the point that Jackson was attacked in the same fashion by other Democratic candidates in his previous runs - maybe that's not what you were alluding to?

Nah, it was that Democrats (and Republicans) in general have used race as an issue, even if it's in a wink, wink, nod, nod way.  Neither side is clean of it, and I think it's reasonable for Obama to call it out.

Though I would imagine in many of these cases, it's just politicians using dirty tricks to be in power, rather than genuine racism.  Not that that's much better.

[Brendan]

Nah, it was that Democrats (and Republicans) in general have used race as an issue, even if it's in a wink, wink, nod, nod way.  Neither side is clean of it, and I think it's reasonable for Obama to call it out.

Though I would imagine in many of these cases, it's just politicians using dirty tricks to be in power, rather than genuine racism.  Not that that's much better.

Ah, well, then we agree.

[msduncan]

I don't know how much of this will come directly from the McCain campaign (though already statements claiming Hamas wants Obama to win, and those questioning he and his wife's patriotism, arguably have racial undertones),

Of course they don't (have racial undertones).    Hamas endorsed Obama publically.    Naturally Obama rejected the endorsement, but that is where that came from.

As for the patriotism?   I've questioned (wrongly) peoples' patriotism on OO before, and it had nothing to do with race.

[msduncan]

"It is going to be very difficult for Republicans to run on their stewardship of the economy or their outstanding foreign policy," Obama told a fundraiser in Jacksonville, Florida. "We know what kind of campaign they're going to run. They're going to try to make you afraid.

Here's an idea, ms...start a thread on McCain that puts the lie to Obama's quote above.  Tell us something about your guy that would or should encourage the fence sitters to your position.  It's only fair that I assign myself an equally challenging task so I will watch patiently the next five months to see if Republicans run a campaign based on (1) substance or (2) making voters afraid.  I'm hopeful with McCain that it will be more of (1) than (2) but too many Republicans learned the wrong lessons from Rove. 

He's not 'my guy' so I don't have a lot of nice things to say about him.   'My guy' was governor Huckabee, who got my vote in the primaries and won my state.

[brettmcd]

I can only speak for myself, but my opposition to Obama has nothing to do with his race or anything like that.   I will however say that I do fear the policies he, as a very liberal politician, wants to enact.   So if there is any fear of him its for what he wants to do, not the color of his skin.

[Brendan]

Hamas endorsed Obama publically.    Naturally Obama rejected the endorsement, but that is where that came from.

Hmm.

Obama’s comments have confirmed that there will be no change in the U.S. administration’s foreign policy on the Arab-Israeli conflict,” Hamas official Sami Abu Zuhri told Reuters in Gaza.
 
“The Democratic and Republican parties support totally the Israeli occupation at the expense of the interests and rights of Arabs and Palestinians,” he said.
 
“Hamas does not differentiate between the two presidential candidates, Obama and McCain, because their policies regarding the Arab-Israel conflict are the same and are hostile to us, therefore we do have no preference and are not wishing for either of them to win,” Zuhri said.

Remember when McCain endorsed George Wallace Jr. for AL Lieutenant Governor, despite his strong CCC ties?

[Autistic Angel]

Earlier this week, I received an e-mail chain letter purporting to "reveal the *real* Obama!!!" with a series of unsourced, context-free quotes which show him to be a bitter, angry, anti-white racist.  I doubt it was authored by a democrat; it certainly wasn't forwarded by one.

When you add in the rumors that Barack Obama is a radical Muslim who hates America because he's secretly sworn allegiance to "black Africa", plus the repeated Fox News slurs, I think it's perfectly fair to call out the Republicans out for their continuing pattern of race-baiting.

Hey Obama?   F___ you.

I hope you have a more articulate response ready for me than you did for Obama.

-Autistic Angel

[brettmcd]

Earlier this week, I received an e-mail chain letter purporting to "reveal the *real* Obama!!!" with a series of unsourced, context-free quotes which show him to be a bitter, angry, anti-white racist.  I doubt it was authored by a democrat; it certainly wasn't forwarded by one.

When you add in the rumors that Barack Obama is a radical Muslim who hates America because he's secretly sworn allegiance to "black Africa", plus the repeated Fox News slurs, I think it's perfectly fair to call out the Republicans out for their continuing pattern of race-baiting.

Hey Obama?   F___ you.

I hope you have a more articulate response ready for me than you did for Obama.

-Autistic Angel

So I should take every silly and idiotic email I get in my spam as serious political commentary and blame one party or the other for them directly?    You have no idea who or what wrote those chain letters, you just automatically want to assume it was a republican because it furthers your political agenda to blame them for it.   I dont see this 'continuing pattern of race-bating' you speak of, I see some idiots acting idiotic, but nothing as organized as you seem to want to think.

[Brendan]

You have no idea who or what wrote those chain letters, you just automatically want to assume it was a republican because it furthers your political agenda to blame them for it. 

Here's some journalism.  Turns out it predates the Insights article.

[Autistic Angel]

You have no idea who or what wrote those chain letters, you just automatically want to assume it was a republican because it furthers your political agenda to blame them for it.  I dont see this 'continuing pattern of race-bating' you speak of, I see some idiots acting idiotic, but nothing as organized as you seem to want to think.

For clarity, you're arguing that there's a good chance that these anti-Obama smears are originating from his own party, and that the series of Fox News clips I posted are just "idiots acting idiotic"?

-Autistic Angel

[denoginizer]

My earlier point was simply that, in this election, the only Democratic candidate to use racist smears towards Obama was Clinton - not Edwards, Dodd, Richardson, etc, etc. 

Well McCain would be the only Republican candidate to use racist smears against Obama too.     That's kind of a silly argument.

The reason Hillary was the only Democrat to attack Obama with subtle racist undertones was because she was the only democrat who had a legitimate chance to beat him.

Her campaign did it because they thought it could help them get votes.  Which will be the reason the McCain campaign will do it.

That being said I saw nothing wrong with what was said by Obama in the article in the original post.  He was being honest.  Just like he was being honest about midwesterners "clinging" to guns and religion.  His honesty is what I like about him. 

For clarity, you're arguing that there's a good chance that these anti-Obama smears are originating from his own party, and that the series of Fox News clips I posted are just "idiots acting idiotic"?

-Autistic Angel

I think the argument is that the Republicans are not alone in race baiting politics.  The Clinton campain did these things as well.

[brettmcd]

You have no idea who or what wrote those chain letters, you just automatically want to assume it was a republican because it furthers your political agenda to blame them for it.  I dont see this 'continuing pattern of race-bating' you speak of, I see some idiots acting idiotic, but nothing as organized as you seem to want to think.

For clarity, you're arguing that there's a good chance that these anti-Obama smears are originating from his own party, and that the series of Fox News clips I posted are just "idiots acting idiotic"?

-Autistic Angel

I am arguing that the identity of whoever wrote a chain mail that you happened to get in your email isnt as clear as you want to make it out to be.   And I wouldnt put it past either campaign to put such things out there that will generate sympathy for their candidate and outrage against the other side.     And just to let you know fox news does not equal the republican party, and for the record I consider pretty much all the cable and network news stations to be run by idiots.

[msduncan]

Earlier this week, I received an e-mail chain letter purporting to "reveal the *real* Obama!!!" with a series of unsourced, context-free quotes which show him to be a bitter, angry, anti-white racist.  I doubt it was authored by a democrat; it certainly wasn't forwarded by one.

When you add in the rumors that Barack Obama is a radical Muslim who hates America because he's secretly sworn allegiance to "black Africa", plus the repeated Fox News slurs, I think it's perfectly fair to call out the Republicans out for their continuing pattern of race-baiting.

Hey Obama?   F___ you.

I hope you have a more articulate response ready for me than you did for Obama.

-Autistic Angel

So you are calling out Republicans for undocumented, unclaimed, anonymous internet chain emails?    What if they came from the Clinton camp?   She has the most to gain other than McCain in Obama losing....

[Blackadar]

Are you just angry because the man is right?  We've already seen numerous examples of it (check out http://www.gamingtrend.com/forums/index.php/topic,27532.0.html).  I'm glad he called them out.

Seriously, I don't think I can even relate to your anger on this one. 

I discount what you are saying.   Why?  Because you've twice played the bigot card on me in these forums.
It's ridiculous.

It seems you're just angry that your ilk aren't getting a free pass to promote their unique brand of sleaze under cover of darkness.