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Author Topic: Obama's Race Speech  (Read 3387 times)
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SkyLander
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« on: March 19, 2008, 12:12:26 AM »

I didn't see a post on this and I thought I should throw it out here, I'm not really one to make a post or talk in this area but I actually thought this was a great speech and a rather important one. Whether you are an Obama supporter or not you should read/listen to the whole speech.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23687688/

Only link I've found that has the full speech that actually sounds good/isn't taped off someone TV.
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2008, 12:36:30 AM »

Thought it was a great speech myself, he successfully condemned his friends comments and praised the guy at the same time. The guy is an amazing speaker. I look forward to the time when we have a president who doesn't embarrass me every time he speaks (meaning any of the 3).
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2008, 12:39:20 AM »

Good speech giver I would agree.  Still doesn't answer two questions for me.  One, why'd he wait til now, other than it being politically expedient, to make this speech when his pastor has probably been spouting like that for two decades, and two, why'd he even stay in a church with a pastor preaching such stuff?

I have attended many churches and have left some when the preacher started promoting wierd or down right falsities.  If I have the judgment to walk away from that why would someone who is about to possibly lead our country not have it?  

I have nothing against Obama racially in any way, but for the life of me I see him 'amening' and nodding his head in agreement through every sermon and now, when his pastor is shown to despise America and white men, does he find it time to give his take on the 'I have a dream' speech.  Maybe he didn't agree with him ever, but who in their right mind stays in a church where they are diametrically opposed to what is being preached.  No one I know.  My bet is he believes every word of it.  Just my gut feeling.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 12:41:23 AM by mikeg » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2008, 01:40:54 AM »

Excellent speech.  I was really hoping Obama wouldn't take the race-baiting and when it came out he was going to make a "race" speech, I winced.  But he knocked it out of the park - very much akin to JFKs Catholic speech.
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2008, 02:57:38 AM »

Not even close, B. It struck me as yet more fluff and "happy happy joy joy pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" rhetoric. Tell me exactly what religion he belongs to. I'll wait.

Personally though, I don't think a man's religion is the measure by which he should be judged. I've listened to plenty of his speeches and I have yet to find anything of substance in them, and that goes beyond being Republican. Hard as it may seem to believe I am open to new ideas. I've yet to hear them from Obama.
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2008, 04:31:14 AM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on March 19, 2008, 02:57:38 AM

Tell me exactly what religion he belongs to. I'll wait.

Why? Who cares? But he is a Christian. Lot's of people just say they are Christian, I am not sure exactly what you are looking for here, he needs to be pigeon holed?. I get that you are trying to prove a point that we don't know anything about him really, but I am not sure your question is relevant. Asking his point on a political issue would make more sense.

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Personally though, I don't think a man's religion is the measure by which he should be judged. I've listened to plenty of his speeches and I have yet to find anything of substance in them, and that goes beyond being Republican. Hard as it may seem to believe I am open to new ideas. I've yet to hear them from Obama.

No in his speeches he does talk a lot about just being a change from the current regime but without actually saying much, I would agree with that. But with a little research you can find out exactly where he stands on most issues. If you go to his website, his ideas are set out for you so you can see his viewpoints. He makes the speeches to win people over, and then expects them to do some research on their own.
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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2008, 04:31:33 AM »

Quote from: mikeg on March 19, 2008, 12:39:20 AM

My bet is he believes every word of it.

Your bet is that a man who has spent so much time dedicated to public service of this country and is a US Senator actually hates this country? And after that speech. Yeah, good bet dude.

Quote from: whiteboyskim on March 19, 2008, 02:57:38 AM

Tell me exactly what religion he belongs to. I'll wait.

What does that even mean?

Quote from: whiteboyskim on March 19, 2008, 02:57:38 AM

I've listened to plenty of his speeches and I have yet to find anything of substance in them, and that goes beyond being Republican. Hard as it may seem to believe I am open to new ideas. I've yet to hear them from Obama.

His speech was all substance. In 37 minutes he succinctly broke down the current state of race relations in this country. What part do you disagree with?
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2008, 05:17:27 AM »

Quote from: mikeg on March 19, 2008, 12:39:20 AM

Good speech giver I would agree.  Still doesn't answer two questions for me.  One, why'd he wait til now, other than it being politically expedient, to make this speech when his pastor has probably been spouting like that for two decades, and two, why'd he even stay in a church with a pastor preaching such stuff?

Yeah, you're right.  He totally didn't address any of that.

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Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough.  Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask?  Why not join another church?  And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way 

But the truth is, that isn’t all that I know of the man.  The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor.  He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God’s work here on Earth – by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

In my first book, Dreams From My Father, I described the experience of my first service at Trinity:

“People began to shout, to rise from their seats and clap and cry out, a forceful wind carrying the reverend’s voice up into the rafters….And in that single note – hope! – I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion’s den, Ezekiel’s field of dry bones.  Those stories – of survival, and freedom, and hope – became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world.  Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories tha t we didn’t need to feel shame about…memories that all people might study and cherish – and with which we could start to rebuild.”

That has been my experience at Trinity.  Like other predominantly black churches across the country, Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety – the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger.  Like other black churches, Trinity’s services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor.  They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear.  The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright.  As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me.  He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children.  Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect.  He contains within him the contradictions – the good and the bad – of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

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But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn’t make it – those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination.  That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations – those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future.  Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways.  For the men and women of Reverend Wright’s generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years.  That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends.  But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table.  At times, that anger is exploited by politicia ns, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician’s own failings.

And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews.  The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright’s sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning.  That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change.  But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community.  Most working- and middle-class white Americans don’t feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race.  Their experience is the immigrant experience – as far as they’re concerned, no one’s handed them anything, they’ve built it from scratch.  They’ve worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor.  They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense.  So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committ ed; when they’re told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time. 

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren’t always expressed in polite company.  But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation.  Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition.  Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends.  Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze – a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many.  And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns – this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding. 

This is where we are right now.  It’s a racial stalemate we’ve been stuck in for years.  Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so naïve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy – particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own.

Oh well.  Maybe next speech.
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2008, 05:21:21 AM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on March 19, 2008, 02:57:38 AM

Tell me exactly what religion he belongs to. I'll wait.

Quote from: whiteboyskim, 8 seconds later
Personally though, I don't think a man's religion is the measure by which he should be judged.

Cognitive dissonance.
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Lee
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 06:05:38 AM »

Deleted my post.

Damnit Brendan, use smilies when you are being sarcastic. slywink
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2008, 02:10:22 PM »

The is the first time in recent memory that I have been struck by what I consider to be actual sincerity and integrity in a politician.  Up until now I have been dreading this election because I felt it was more of the same bullshit choices all around, but Obama just scored my vote with that speech.  Very impressive.
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2008, 02:17:34 PM »

I'd vote for him. He bullshits better than the rest. The past two electorates suck at covering up their failures, except with a sly wink. slywink
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2008, 02:22:28 PM »

Quote from: Lee on March 19, 2008, 06:05:38 AM

Damnit Brendan, use smilies when you are being sarcastic. slywink

Wouldn't that make it too easy? slywink

Quote from: Purge on March 19, 2008, 02:17:34 PM

I'd vote for him. He bullshits better than the rest. The past two electorates suck at covering up their failures, except with a sly wink. slywink

At the very least, he wrote this speech himself.  I know it's a sign of my decreased expectations in politicians, but how amazing is that?
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2008, 03:44:27 PM »

Most people don't give McCain enough credit for his substance and flexibility.  No matter what position you hold on just about any issue, McCain has been a staunch advocate of that position at one time or another.
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« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2008, 03:46:45 PM »

Don't confuse flexibility with flip-flopping like a fish out of water.


On the religion topic, I really could care less what religion any of these guys are.  Did anyone ask Spitzer what religion he was?  We all saw how that turned out...
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2008, 04:13:43 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on March 19, 2008, 03:46:45 PM

Don't confuse flexibility with flip-flopping like a fish out of water.

I don't, I was just playing at Fox News anchor.
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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2008, 06:55:12 PM »

Quote from: mikeg on March 19, 2008, 12:39:20 AM

I have attended many churches and have left some when the preacher started promoting wierd or down right falsities.  If I have the judgment to walk away from that why would someone who is about to possibly lead our country not have it?  

You can't just walk out of a church if you actually believe the doctrines that the church teaches. A lot of folks wonder why Catholics don't abandon the Catholic Church when crap like the pedophilia scandal breaks. But you can't. If you believe the Church is right doctrinally, you don't leave just because you think a certain pastor or priest acts wrongly or speaks out of turn. And please note, the United Church of Christ, which Obama is a member of, is not racist, is not anti-American, though it certainly is the opposite of the vulgar Religious Right.

You can learn more about the denomination Obama is a member of here:

www.ucc.org/god-is-still-speaking/
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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2008, 07:05:08 PM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on March 19, 2008, 02:57:38 AM

Not even close, B. It struck me as yet more fluff and "happy happy joy joy pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" rhetoric.

Mitch, did you even listen to the speech? This speech was an incredible dissertation on the history and state of race relations in America. I challenge you to point me to one more substantive or inciteful speech in this election cycle.

Speeches are not supposed to be laundry lists of proposals or ideas. That's what position papers and websites are for. Speeches are about tone, broad strokes and what the first Bush called "that vision thing." Even "policy speeches" from any candidate are mostly background and staging, with the actual policy portion being touched on lightly, and usually more deeply explained in the accompanying press release.

Policy is boring. It doesn't soar. It sits on the ground, flat and dull. You can't make great speeches that break down, point by point, a tax policy. But you can make a sweeping speech on your tax philosophy -- the speech lacks "substance" but is an important part of the substantive debate.

Most of the stuff regarding civil rights and race relations has long been part of Obama's policy portfolio:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/civilrights/

I suppose he could have just printed this all out, prefaced it with a denounciation of Wright's comments, and just read the text of his bullet point plans, but that would hardly be a good speech.
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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2008, 07:10:25 PM »

I found the smears pretty distressing.  McCain is endorsed by several people who believe the terrorists on 9/11 were carrying out the will of God in order to punish the US for tolerating gays... and yet nobody is screaming for McCain to renounce or denounce.  

Look at the hoops Obama had to go through when Farrakhan came out on his side.  The problem is the right keeps pushing the "angry black man" narrative, because they know it's really effective with certain people.  Strategically speaking, it's their dominant strategy, since they know it will always work- the issue is simply to what degree it works... but since they have no negative repercussions from doing this all the time, they will just keep doing it.  Who cares if it's less successful than another time?  It's more successful than not doing it, which is why it's a "dominant strategy".

Once you know someone has a dominant strategy, you know they will always play it.  Thus, your job becomes how to counter that dominant strategy.  Thus far, I think Obama is doing a pretty good job.  In fact, between this crap and how he is handling Hillary's maneuvering, it's actually taken away many of my misgivings about him.  I thought he would just fold up against opposition.
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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2008, 07:37:55 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 19, 2008, 07:10:25 PM

I found the smears pretty distressing.  McCain is endorsed by several people who believe the terrorists on 9/11 were carrying out the will of God in order to punish the US for tolerating gays... and yet nobody is screaming for McCain to renounce or denounce. 

There is a difference between an endorsement and having somebody preside over your wedding.  Surely you recognize that.  I support Obama and I thought his speech was terrific.  But I also thought it needed to be said. Apparently so did he and his campaign. 
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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2008, 08:38:47 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on March 19, 2008, 07:37:55 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 19, 2008, 07:10:25 PM

I found the smears pretty distressing.  McCain is endorsed by several people who believe the terrorists on 9/11 were carrying out the will of God in order to punish the US for tolerating gays... and yet nobody is screaming for McCain to renounce or denounce. 

There is a difference between an endorsement and having somebody preside over your wedding.  Surely you recognize that.  I support Obama and I thought his speech was terrific.  But I also thought it needed to be said. Apparently so did he and his campaign. 

I don't see the difference.  I have no idea what the dude who presided over my brother's wedding believes, but I fail to see how it has jack poop to do with what my brother believes.

So does that mean if the man who married you later turns out to be a pedophile, or gets busted for prostitution, or whatever... somehow means that you support those things?  I wasn't aware of that.  Does this also extend?  Does that mean if you, say, hired John Wayne Gacy, that you support serial killers?  Or how about if you serve somebody food in a restaurant?  Does saying "bless you" after they sneeze likewise count as a blanket endorsement of all they stand for?

Obviously my examples are absurd, but it's not really any more absurd than the claim that someone hired to marry a couple has anything to do with what those people believe.  I was under the (apparently mistaken) belief that the wedding was about the couple, instead of the dude hired to marry them.
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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2008, 08:55:20 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 19, 2008, 08:38:47 PM

Obviously my examples are absurd, but it's not really any more absurd than the claim that someone hired to marry a couple has anything to do with what those people believe.  I was under the (apparently mistaken) belief that the wedding was about the couple, instead of the dude hired to marry them.

Obama has presented himself as a very spiritual person.  I think there could be a feeling that if someone is very devoted to his faith and attends church functions regularly, then his pastor could have some influence over him.   Have you ever been married?  If you have then you would probably know that often times the couple has many meetings with the pastor before the wedding over a period of months.  Again this guy is different than some random person endorsing him.   Even if you don't see it through your blinders, Obama and his campaign recognise  it.  That's why he felt compelled to speak out about it.  I give him credit for doing so. 
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2008, 09:49:21 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on March 19, 2008, 08:55:20 PM

Even if you don't see it through your blinders, Obama and his campaign recognise  it.  That's why he felt compelled to speak out about it.  I give him credit for doing so. 

I don't have blinders.  In fact, I wasn't even in favor of Obama until fairly recently.  Edwards was always my horse in the race, and I liked Hillary's policies over Obama's... but whatever, all that is a digression.

You yourself said it- the pastor (or whoever) is interviewing the couple.  It's not the other way around.  Like I said, it's their time, and the dude marrying them is just a prop.

What I'm talking about is treating the candidates equally.  So why is it when a pastor is blasting America for it's abysmal record on civil rights and racial equality, it's bad... but when racists, fearmongers, and homophobes praise terrorists who fly airplanes into buildings as being the hand of God for punishing our "immoral" nation... it's ok.  Why should we view it as ok when Obama has to go to great lengths to distance himself from Farrakhan, but John McSame can not only accept an endorsement from John Hagee, but calls Rod Parsley his "spiritual guide".

That sounds to me more like McCain is openly embracing the platforms of these people... and all Obama did was sit in a pew, or stand before an altar to get married.  There's a difference between actively embracing what a person stands for, and passively being in a person's vicinity.  That's the issue here, and St. McCain gets the free pass as usual.

But that's not an Obama or McCain thing, or even a race thing.  It's a Repub vs Dem thing, like how it's ok (and even masculinely virile!) of David Vitter to cheat on his wife with hookers, but it's not ok for Eliot Spitzer to do the same thing.  It's a "libr00l mediaz" thing.
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« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2008, 12:30:34 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 19, 2008, 09:49:21 PM

You yourself said it- the pastor (or whoever) is interviewing the couple.  It's not the other way around.  Like I said, it's their time, and the dude marrying them is just a prop.

The couple decides which church to get married in.  They choose the pastor who presides over their ceremony.  I am stunned that you can't see the difference between an endorsement by someone who a candidate has never met and an endorsement by the pastor of a church the candidate belongs too and has been close to for almost 20 years. I'm guessing if it was McCain's pastor and the situation were reversed you would feel differently. 

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« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2008, 03:10:50 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on March 20, 2008, 12:30:34 AM

by someone who a candidate has never met

That isn't even close to being accurate.

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and an endorsement by the pastor of a church the candidate belongs too

...where does it say Obama has an endorsement from him?  The dude was working with his campaign... and now he's not.  Problem solved, no?

Quote
and has been close to for almost 20 years.

Irrelevant.  I have plenty of friends who hold a great many positions I don't agree with.  The fact that they are my friends reflects on my personal beliefs not at all.  Now if we are talking about consorting with criminals (like our current president has a long history of doing), that's another issue entirely.

Quote
I'm guessing if it was McCain's pastor and the situation were reversed you would feel differently.

I'm guessing you are wrong. 

In fact, notice that I didn't slam McCain at all for the people who already have endorsed him (which is a pretty vile group of people).  However, I was pointing out the fact that Obama is expected to publicly flog any person who comes across as even mildly distasteful, while McCain gets a free pass with proudly accepting endorsements from people with long histories of preaching hate against gays, minorities, and even against both Christians and Muslims.  Can you imagine the uproar if someone preaching hate against Christians endorsed Obama instead of McCain?  Bill O'Reilly's head would assplode!  But when it happens with McCain, he gets the free ride... "it's just politics" is how the narrative goes.
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« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2008, 03:33:55 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on March 19, 2008, 06:55:12 PM

And please note, the United Church of Christ, which Obama is a member of, is not racist, is not anti-American, though it certainly is the opposite of the vulgar Religious Right.
Indeed.  The UCC is part of the vulgar Religious Left.
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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2008, 04:23:19 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 20, 2008, 03:10:50 PM

In fact, notice that I didn't slam McCain at all for the people who already have endorsed him (which is a pretty vile group of people).

LOL. Generalize much?
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« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2008, 04:28:19 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on March 20, 2008, 04:23:19 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 20, 2008, 03:10:50 PM

In fact, notice that I didn't slam McCain at all for the people who already have endorsed him (which is a pretty vile group of people).

LOL. Generalize much?

Everybody generalizes.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2008, 04:34:12 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on March 20, 2008, 04:28:19 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on March 20, 2008, 04:23:19 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 20, 2008, 03:10:50 PM

In fact, notice that I didn't slam McCain at all for the people who already have endorsed him (which is a pretty vile group of people).

LOL. Generalize much?

Everybody generalizes.

No. They never do.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 04:51:18 PM by denoginizer » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2008, 06:23:19 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on March 20, 2008, 04:23:19 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 20, 2008, 03:10:50 PM

In fact, notice that I didn't slam McCain at all for the people who already have endorsed him (which is a pretty vile group of people).

LOL. Generalize much?

Actually, my statement was broader than I intended.  My intention was to include only the people I had previously mention, rather than claim anyone endorsing McSame is vile.  While a case can be made that my mistakenly broad statement is, indeed, accurate, it wasn't my intention to make that particular claim.
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« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2008, 07:21:11 PM »

Hagee, in 'NYT' This Sunday, Says McCain Sought His Endorsement

So it isnt that McCain was just passively sitting back and Hagee decided to throw his unsolicited endorcement over that way.  McCain was actively courting endorsement at least one person with a history of anti-gay and anti-Christian sermons.

And then, of course, we hear Colbert weigh in:

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By comparison, Falwell and Robertson delivered a touching sermon three days after September 11th:

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Fallwell: “I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them, who tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say ‘you helped this happen.’”

Robertson: “I totally concur”

It is even more inspiring than their sermon about the two sets of footprints on the beach. The second set belongs to a gay dude sneaking up on you. Run, Jesus! But like the out of control Rev. Wright, Falwell and Robertson were also condemned by a presidential candidate. During John McCain’s 2000 campaign, he called them both “agents of intolerance.” But before this campaign, McCain did what was necessary to win. Here’s what he said about them this time:

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McCain: I believe that the “Christian Right “ has a major role to play in the Republican Party.”

Russert: Do you believe that Jerry Falwell is still an agent of intolerance?

McCain: No, I don’t.


He embraced them. In fact, in 2006, McCain gave the commencement address at Falwell’s Liberty University. I’m telling you folks, the man is such a maverick, he is even independent from his own true feelings! McCain was able to cozy up to preachers who say that gays and Satanists are the same thing and it’s a non-issue. I think that Obama’s mistake is that he did it backwards. If he had denounced Rev. Wright years ago, then quietly embraced him for this election, he could have spent the time he wasted on yesterday’s speech focusing on the issues that really matter.
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Mr. Fed
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« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2008, 11:04:13 PM »

Well, the Colbert routine is funny.  But I am informed that there are major differences between Obama's relationship with his pastor and McCain's relationship with whichever right-wing religious figure he is either condemning or lauding this week, depending on his mood and financial needs.  First, Obama had a lengthy personal relationship with Wright and attended his church, which is far more of an endorsement of his policies than just asking for endorsements and trying to appeal to voting blocks and political stuff like that.  Also, Negroes is scary.
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« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2008, 01:49:11 AM »

Yeah, I guess part of my anger is seeing people fall for the whole "oooh... big scary angry black dude... ohhh... fear!!!!" thing going on... and it actually works every freaking time.  People are such damn sheep.
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« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2008, 04:30:29 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on March 22, 2008, 01:49:11 AM

Yeah, I guess part of my anger is seeing people fall for the whole "oooh... big scary angry black dude... ohhh... fear!!!!" thing going on... and it actually works every freaking time.  People are such damn sheep.

I hope you don't just think its because the pastor is black - we'd be seeing the same stories if his pastor was white, though they might not have been so inflammatory. But then again, Fox News has been the no. 1 news agency going after this and i'm certain they'd skew the story no matter if the paster was black, white, asian, or latino. I think the general reaction has been more in line to the attacks we might have seen against a Catholic candidate in the twenties.
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« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2008, 04:47:56 AM »

Quote from: CSL on March 22, 2008, 04:30:29 AM

Fox News has been the no. 1 news agency going after this and i'm certain they'd skew the story no matter if the paster was black, white, asian, or latino.

Chris Wallace criticizes Fox & Friends for "two hours of Obama bashing" in which hosts "distort what Obama had to say"

Not a huge Wallace fan, but this was pretty good. He came on to promote his Sunday Fox News show during "Fox and Friends". It was supposed to be a nice little banter piece but instead Wallace came down on them and accused them of cutting the Obama quote after "typical white person" and not including the rest of the quote. F&F guys were speechless and looked to be pretty pissed. I guess afterwards one of them even walked off set he was so mad.

Edit: I am mistaken on that last sentence, Brian Kilmeade walked off the set because he was upset the other 2 wouldn't quit the Obama bashing not because he was upset with Wallace.
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« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2008, 08:05:25 AM »

Yeah, Wallace and Kilmeade showed some integrity that's not normal on the Faux network. Major kudos to them. Fox has been all over this topic like white on a Klan hat. I don't know if it was on this forum or another, but someone pointed out that while other networks' chyrons during Obama's speech read something akin to "Obama addresses race tensions", Fox's read "Obama refuses to disavow pastor."

Everyone knows that Fox is just a propaganda arm of the neo-con movement, but it's nice to see Wallace and Kilmeade still have some integrity left. The same can't be said of Hannity, Hume, O'Reilly or their ilk.
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« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2008, 04:26:34 PM »

Quote from: CSL on March 22, 2008, 04:30:29 AM

Quote from: unbreakable on March 22, 2008, 01:49:11 AM

Yeah, I guess part of my anger is seeing people fall for the whole "oooh... big scary angry black dude... ohhh... fear!!!!" thing going on... and it actually works every freaking time.  People are such damn sheep.

I hope you don't just think its because the pastor is black - we'd be seeing the same stories if his pastor was white,

Um... no, we aren't.  As I've already pointed out, people who's endorsement was purposely sought out my McCain were praising the 9/11 terrorists for punishing our immoral, gay tolerating, either pro- or anti- Semitic (depending on who was speaking), civil rights loving nation.  Because obviously God hates civil rights as much as the Nazis loved them.

Quote
though they might not have been so inflammatory. But then again, Fox News has been the no. 1 news agency going after this and i'm certain they'd skew the story no matter if the paster was black, white, asian, or latino. I think the general reaction has been more in line to the attacks we might have seen against a Catholic candidate in the twenties.

Well quite honestly, this has nothing to do with race or religion.  This is simply about Swift Boating the Dem candidate, since to anyone who seriously looks into the subject, there's not an ounce of intellectual honesty anywhere in the Fox News "omg big scary radical angry black man" story.


For example, can you imagine how Fox would be going insane if a Democrat confused a Sunni or Shia?  And yet... not only does everyone in the Bush administration repeatedly lie about what's going on over there (like Iran [or Iraq] helping Al Qaeda), but McCain just recently gave three speeches in which everything he said about the reality of Iraq was backward and wrong.  But hey, that's ok, because he's a "Stay the Course" Republican, so he's obviously a serious foreign policy thinker.


Well, at least this makes me feel a little bit better:

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