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Author Topic: Marijuana. Just watched a documentary.  (Read 7491 times)
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Harpua3
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« on: August 23, 2013, 06:34:07 AM »

 Just curious, as it is, what's the consensus on this? I just watch the documentary called the "union" and is was quite enjoyable. Even the wife found it entertaining. Not only does it cover the subject matter at hand, it also, even more so covers how everything relates to another. How our government sprays chemical on tobacco and its cool...and the pluses of canabis. Kind of a eye opener to things that should be common knowledge. Has anyone watched this "movie", or have any views? As a side note I smoked while younger and loved it. Probably would not drink if that were an option legally. Also, much better for your body. Anywho, any bites?slywink
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brettmcd
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2013, 06:39:51 AM »

My opinion will always be the same, you are a complete and total idiot if you use drugs, but being an idiot shouldn't be illegal and as long as you don't hurt anyone else use whatever you want.
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ATB
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2013, 12:23:17 PM »

I'm pretty much the same as I've always been. Drugs = bad.

But why do I believe that? Largely because of the government messaging and spin.

That said, I've seen first hand via friends and family how damaging drugs can be so it's not all hype bs.

And just because all the hipster junkies are more vocal now about legalizing it doesn't mean it should happen.  But on the flip, the drug war has been one of the the worst self-inflicted ills this country has ever levied against itself.

So I guess I'm completely on the fence about it.
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Alefroth
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2013, 04:40:56 PM »

All drugs, or just ones that idiots have been led to believe are 'evil'?

Ale
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brettmcd
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2013, 04:43:12 PM »

Quote from: Alefroth on August 23, 2013, 04:40:56 PM

All drugs, or just ones that idiots have been led to believe are 'evil'?

Ale

I don't think any drugs are 'evil' I just think people who use recreational drugs are idiots.   But again that is a persons right to be an idiot as long as they don't harm anyone else by what they do.
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2013, 04:44:35 PM »

Quote from: ATB on August 23, 2013, 12:23:17 PM

I'm pretty much the same as I've always been. Drugs = bad.

All drugs - Including Alcohol?  Tobacco?  Caffeine?  Prozac?  Viagra?

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Alefroth
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2013, 04:52:40 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on August 23, 2013, 04:43:12 PM

Quote from: Alefroth on August 23, 2013, 04:40:56 PM

All drugs, or just ones that idiots have been led to believe are 'evil'?

Ale

I don't think any drugs are 'evil' I just think people who use recreational drugs are idiots. 

Why? Are you against recreation?

Ale
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brettmcd
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2013, 05:07:30 PM »

Quote from: Alefroth on August 23, 2013, 04:52:40 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on August 23, 2013, 04:43:12 PM

Quote from: Alefroth on August 23, 2013, 04:40:56 PM

All drugs, or just ones that idiots have been led to believe are 'evil'?

Ale

I don't think any drugs are 'evil' I just think people who use recreational drugs are idiots. 

Why? Are you against recreation?

Ale

So the only possible way for a person to have recreation time is to use mind/mood altering drugs?
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Alefroth
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2013, 05:14:55 PM »

Why would you ask that?

Ale
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brettmcd
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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2013, 05:19:25 PM »

Quote from: Alefroth on August 23, 2013, 05:14:55 PM

Why would you ask that?

Ale

Because you are the one who asked when I said I think people who use recreational drugs are idiots why I am against recreation.   Which to any logical person would imply that you seem to think that without such drugs recreation is impossible.   
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gellar
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2013, 05:20:55 PM »

Quote from: Exodor on August 23, 2013, 04:44:35 PM

Quote from: ATB on August 23, 2013, 12:23:17 PM

I'm pretty much the same as I've always been. Drugs = bad.

All drugs - Including Alcohol?  Tobacco?  Caffeine?  Prozac?  Viagra?



This is my question as well.

Basically I can't really understand the logic of a society that has tobacco products as legal and marijuana as illegal.
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Alefroth
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2013, 05:24:02 PM »

I asked IF you were, not WHY. Punctuation matters. I'm just trying to figure out why you think people who use drugs recreationally are idiots. Was just wondering if it was recreation in general you had a problem with.

Ale
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ATB
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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2013, 05:37:53 PM »

Lumping caffeine in with pot is insincere I think.

But I guess  the best way to answer is I don't think that just because hand guns are legal rocket launchers should be too.

Oh and feel free to read the rest of the post about how on the fence I am...
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2013, 05:39:53 PM »

Ok...deep breath.

Not a fan.  Not a fan at all.  Tried it once myself and ended up hallucinating, freaking the fuck out, and sleeping for a day.  All of that said....

My wife has severe pain issues.  She's gone through mild painkillers all the way through Carisoprodol, Methadone, Morphine, spinal injections, and more thanks to two severe car accidents where she was rear-ended at high speed while stopped.  Last year she did something pretty brave - she put herself in rehab and got herself off of all those drugs.  She has no way to manage her pain level now, so she's reached out to her doctor for alternatives.  He suggested she try medicinal mariijuana.  She got a green card from the state (did you know that you can't purchase a firearm if you have one of those?!  WTF Arizona?!)  She's eaten a bunch of the edible stuff (she really didn't want to smoke it) but those are pretty slow to dull pain.  She tried smoking it through a double-carburetor bong that passes everything over ice to try to burn your lungs less - she didn't like that very much.  Just a few days ago she got an e-cigarette burner that lets her flavor the weed with other stuff (she hates the taste of weed) and it doesn't make our house smell like a head shop.  So far so good.  It's not burning her lungs, it's giving her a bit of relief that she wasn't getting with some of the most powerful prescribed narcotics in the world, and she gets to feel like herself instead of a zombie all the time.  

So while I'm still not a fan, it's doing a better job of helping my wife be herself again, and that's more than I can say for the last decade of 'legal' drugs.  
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« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2013, 06:00:22 PM »

Quote from: ATB on August 23, 2013, 05:37:53 PM

Lumping caffeine in with pot is insincere I think.

But I guess  the best way to answer is I don't think that just because hand guns are legal rocket launchers should be too.

It's a slippery slope...  Where is the line drawn?  Who gets to draw the line?

I'd actually say the same argument applies to bow and arrow/hand guns/rocket launchers/tanks/nuclear submarines.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a line.  I'm just saying so long as there is one and especially when there are inconsistencies with said line (pot/tobacco, for example) this conversation will always exist.

My opinion on the subject is largely the same regardless of what we are talking about.  Either:
A) Create a defensible, logic based line with marginal levels of bias (impossible)
B) There is no line (impossible)
C) 1984 (impossible)

Basically there is no good answer.
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Ironrod
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« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2013, 06:27:57 PM »

No time to make an analytical post right now, but I've been a more-or-less daily smoker for 40 years. In favor of legalization if it brings prices down and makes buying it more convenient.
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stessier
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« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2013, 07:15:32 PM »

I'm for legalization, but I also think anyone who uses for non-medical reasons is unwise.  I also think it should be legal only for adults as there is evidence it messes with brain development of the youngin's.
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Alefroth
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« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2013, 07:22:40 PM »

Quote from: stessier on August 23, 2013, 07:15:32 PM

I'm for legalization, but I also think anyone who uses for non-medical reasons is unwise.  I also think it should be legal only for adults as there is evidence it messes with brain development of the youngin's.

Why do you think it's unwise?

Ale
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brettmcd
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« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2013, 08:19:15 PM »

Using mind altering drugs in general is unwise, that includes alcohol and other drugs besides pot.   One major problem is too many people do stupid things like drive under the influence of such substances.
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Captain Caveman
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« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2013, 08:20:59 PM »

Quote from: Ironrod on August 23, 2013, 06:27:57 PM

No time to make an analytical post right now, but I've been a more-or-less daily smoker for 40 years.

Is the former due to the latter? slywink
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« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2013, 08:55:17 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on August 23, 2013, 08:19:15 PM

Using mind altering drugs in general is unwise, that includes alcohol and other drugs besides pot.   One major problem is too many people do stupid things like drive under the influence of such substances.

In your mind is there such a thing as responsible use of drug, alcohol, etc? Just because some people abuse a substance doesn't necessarily mean that all will.
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« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2013, 09:43:35 PM »

Quote from: Captain Caveman on August 23, 2013, 08:20:59 PM

Quote from: Ironrod on August 23, 2013, 06:27:57 PM

No time to make an analytical post right now, but I've been a more-or-less daily smoker for 40 years.

Is the former due to the latter? slywink


 nod

Someone has to filter the bong water.   slywink
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2013, 12:09:37 AM »

Quote from: Rip on August 23, 2013, 09:43:35 PM

Quote from: Captain Caveman on August 23, 2013, 08:20:59 PM

Quote from: Ironrod on August 23, 2013, 06:27:57 PM

No time to make an analytical post right now, but I've been a more-or-less daily smoker for 40 years.

Is the former due to the latter? slywink


 nod

Someone has to filter the bong water.   slywink

I was told emphatically not to drink that by several people.   The thought never occurred to me to drink it.  Why would anyone drink it?!
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brettmcd
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« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2013, 12:24:10 AM »

Because they were high and thought it would be a good idea at the time?
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Rip
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« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2013, 12:37:13 AM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on August 24, 2013, 12:09:37 AM

Quote from: Rip on August 23, 2013, 09:43:35 PM

Quote from: Captain Caveman on August 23, 2013, 08:20:59 PM

Quote from: Ironrod on August 23, 2013, 06:27:57 PM

No time to make an analytical post right now, but I've been a more-or-less daily smoker for 40 years.

Is the former due to the latter? slywink


 nod

Someone has to filter the bong water.   slywink

I was told emphatically not to drink that by several people.   The thought never occurred to me to drink it.  Why would anyone drink it?!

Some people are foolish enough to think it would get them high. Probably the same people that fall into the bath salts trap.
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Ironrod
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« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2013, 01:36:48 AM »

Quote from: Captain Caveman on August 23, 2013, 08:20:59 PM

Quote from: Ironrod on August 23, 2013, 06:27:57 PM

No time to make an analytical post right now, but I've been a more-or-less daily smoker for 40 years.

Is the former due to the latter? slywink

Quite the opposite; some of us have to work during the daytime. Yes, even dopers. Cute quip, though. icon_lol

On a personal level I don't care very much if it's legal or not. I mind my business and The Man minds his; that's worked out fine for a long time. I've always rather enjoyed the skulking aspect. But as a social matter the advantages of legalization are overwhelming.

First, $billions get diverted from the black market to the mainstream economy -- I'm all for encouraging people to voluntarily pay extra taxes.

Second, some of those new tax receipts can be used for treatment and prevention among those who really ought not to use it -- as with any other drug, some people just ought to stay away.

Third, $billions more are saved on court time and prison capacity.

Fourth, marijuana prohibition fosters general disrespect for the law and skepticism about all other anti-drug pronouncements while randomly screwing up people's lives with criminal records.

Fifth and most important, prohibition has utterly failed to keep pot away from anybody who has the slightest motivation to use it; legalization would more effectively restrict sales to adults.

I have yet to read a convincing argument in favor of prohibition. It is an abject failure.

Lest I leave the wrong impression, I ought to clarify that although I was a hardcore pothead in my youth, I gradually fell into a more take-it-or-leave-it attitude over the years. All else being equal, I prefer to smoke...but it's no big deal if I can't. In fact, sometimes I don't even want to!  icon_surprised
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Canuck
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« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2013, 02:15:12 AM »

It's amazing how little time it took to realize that prohibition of alcohol was a BAD idea and yet it's taken so long to come to the realization regarding marijuana. And I say that as someone who has never smoked.
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rshetts2
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« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2013, 11:30:44 AM »

Considering the vast amount of mood altering/mind altering people do on a daily basis through other sources other than Marijuana, calling people idiots, is, well idiotic at best.  Of course vastly uninformed generalizations usually are.  Want some samples of things that alter mood and or your mind?  How about Sugar? Caffeine? Nicotine? Alcohol?  Countless legally prescribed pharmaceuticals? Music? Art? Conversation?   What makes one source of mood alteration idiotic?  Its legality?  Do you have so much faith in the government that legality is your barometer for what makes sense?   Marijuana is considered a schedule 1 drug by the federal government.  The criteria of which is "The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.  There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision. The drug has a high potential for abuse or addiction"   This category includes drugs like Heroin and Ecstasy.   First off, the medical benefits of THC and cannibinoids has been quite well documented, so well in fact that it has been approved for medicinal use in several states and countries. Marijuana has been used by people safely for not years, decades or even centuries, but for millennia.  As far as addiction?  It has been shown that marijuana is in fact not addictive, chemically.  Like anything that provides an enjoyable experience, it can be mentally addicting. So can sugar.   So why is marijuana illegal?  It meets none of the criteria for a schedule 1 drug and yet it is considered worse than Cocaine, Meth, and PCP.  Its classified as such because its part of the hemp family and hemp was a serious threat to cotton in the textile industry.  Thats the real basis for it being illegal.  The federal government listed the side effects of THC as death and insanity but THC has caused zero documented deaths, (unless you include the untimely demise of a family sized bag of potato chips).  The perfectly legal substances alcohol and nicotine on the other hand, well their capacity for causing death is quite well documented and yet the government has subsidized both the tobacco and alcohol industries.

Now as far as your list of idiots who have used marijuana recreationally, it includes George W. Bush ( source NY Times), Carl Sagan, Steve Jobs,  Arnold Schwartzenegger, Al Gore, Sarah Palin ( ok not a good example of a non-idiot ), Oliver Stone, Morgan Freeman, Steven King, Jesse Ventura and Carlos Santana.  Oh, yeah also Tommy Chong and Cheech Marin.  Now,  you  can argue some ( or in fact all ) are idiots but they are all also highly regarded as successful and in the case of people like Carl Sagan and Steve Jobs, exceptionally intelligent.  

disclaimer:  I am a legal, registered medicinal marijuana patient.  I was switched off a 2 year Vicodin prescription because of the extremely detrimental side effects to marijuana to help with my chronic pain and nausea issues.  The recreational aspects of its use are a bonus.   I dont "smoke" it,  I take it in either pill form, edible form or I use a "vaporizer"  which allows the use of the herb form without combustion. 

KD, I highly recommend that your wife checks into an herbal vaporizer.  Its a great way for her to utilize her medication without the negative side effects of combustion. She will also use about half as much herb. 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 11:41:15 AM by rshetts2 » Logged

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rshetts2
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« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2013, 01:54:16 PM »

Quote from: ATB on August 23, 2013, 05:37:53 PM

Lumping caffeine in with pot is insincere I think.


Really?

Quote
Global consumption of caffeine has been estimated at 120,000 tonnes per year, making it the world's most popular psychoactive substance. This number equates to one serving of a caffeine beverage for every person, per day. Caffeine is a central nervous system and metabolic stimulant, and is used both recreationally and medically to reduce physical fatigue and restore mental alertness when unusual weakness or drowsiness occurs. 

source:  http://www.news-medical.net/health/Caffeine-Pharmacology.aspx
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« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2013, 02:02:39 PM »

So let me get this straight, something that is mood altering ( and mind altering ) that causes a chemical reaction in your body, can make you act stupid, is dangerous to do while driving and is allegedly addicting, makes it fully acceptable for the government to make it illegal?  Well then its time to outlaw sexual activilty!  Sex can even lead to death and insanity!  Quick, call your congressman right away!
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« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2013, 02:15:17 PM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on August 24, 2013, 02:02:39 PM

So let me get this straight, something that is mood altering ( and mind altering ) that causes a chemical reaction in your body, can make you act stupid, is dangerous to do while driving and is allegedly addicting, makes it fully acceptable for the government to make it illegal?  Well then its time to outlaw sexual activilty!  Sex can even lead to death and insanity!  Quick, call your congressman right away!

While I don't have a strong opinion on legalization, this analogy is weak.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2013, 03:22:55 PM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on August 24, 2013, 02:02:39 PM

So let me get this straight, something that is mood altering ( and mind altering ) that causes a chemical reaction in your body, can make you act stupid, is dangerous to do while driving and is allegedly addicting, makes it fully acceptable for the government to make it illegal?  Well then its time to outlaw sexual activilty!  Sex can even lead to death and insanity!  Quick, call your congressman right away!

Has anyone in this thread said that it should be illegal?    I haven't seen anyone so who the hell are you arguing with here?   
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Alefroth
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« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2013, 05:05:54 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on August 24, 2013, 03:22:55 PM

Quote from: rshetts2 on August 24, 2013, 02:02:39 PM

So let me get this straight, something that is mood altering ( and mind altering ) that causes a chemical reaction in your body, can make you act stupid, is dangerous to do while driving and is allegedly addicting, makes it fully acceptable for the government to make it illegal?  Well then its time to outlaw sexual activilty!  Sex can even lead to death and insanity!  Quick, call your congressman right away!

Has anyone in this thread said that it should be illegal?    I haven't seen anyone so who the hell are you arguing with here?   

You still haven't said why you think using mind-altering drugs is unwise in general.

Ale
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brettmcd
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« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2013, 05:11:45 PM »

Because as soon as anyone answers you on anything, the goal posts move and you ask another nonsensical one line throwaway question.    You aren't worth answering.
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Harpua3
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« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2013, 05:23:29 PM »

Quote from: gellar on August 23, 2013, 05:20:55 PM

Quote from: Exodor on August 23, 2013, 04:44:35 PM

Quote from: ATB on August 23, 2013, 12:23:17 PM

I'm pretty much the same as I've always been. Drugs = bad.

All drugs - Including Alcohol?  Tobacco?  Caffeine?  Prozac?  Viagra?



This is my question as well.

Basically I can't really understand the logic of a society that has tobacco products as legal and marijuana as illegal.

Same. Wow have been busy and haven't had time to check back in. Certainly a ton of opinions out there on this one...
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Alefroth
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« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2013, 05:54:30 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on August 24, 2013, 05:11:45 PM

Because as soon as anyone answers you on anything, the goal posts move and you ask another nonsensical one line throwaway question.    You aren't worth answering.

Fair enough. You called me an idiot and I was just wondering if you'd explain why. I was just trying to get to the crux of the matter, but I can understand if you don't want to answer.

Ale
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« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2013, 06:00:10 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on August 24, 2013, 02:15:12 AM

It's amazing how little time it took to realize that prohibition of alcohol was a BAD idea and yet it's taken so long to come to the realization regarding marijuana. And I say that as someone who has never smoked.

Well, depending on who you read, the war on drugs has significant racial overtones (and undertones) and impact.  if it was 2 million white people in jail, the WoD probably would have been ended a long time ago. But, since it's just browns, why not?

That said, i have yet to find a suitable counterview to this and would welcome suggestions on reading that contradicts this opinion.
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« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2013, 06:10:38 PM »

I don't think pot should be illegal, I would much prefer to be around a room full of stoned people than one full of drunks, which is plenty enough reason for me to consider it relatively harmless in comparison.
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« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2013, 07:30:43 PM »


The only thing I'd like to see is (for both booze and pot) that if you get into a vehicle under the influence, the damned book is thrown at your head.
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« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2013, 07:52:04 PM »

Quote from: msduncan on August 24, 2013, 07:30:43 PM


The only thing I'd like to see is (for both booze and pot) that if you get into a vehicle under the influence, the damned book is thrown at your head.

1000% agree with this, which is where there is an issue some people have, you can test for alcohol roadside (breathalyzer) but not for pot.    And before someone comes in and try to claim it, no you don't drive just fine stoned.
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