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Author Topic: Manning gets 35 years  (Read 1264 times)
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Moliere
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« on: August 21, 2013, 04:38:22 PM »

As Manning starts his prison sentence here is a reminder of just a few things he brought to light.

Quote
-U.S. pressured the European Union to accept GM — genetic modification, that is.

-Yemeni president lied to his own people, claiming his military carried out air strikes on militants actually done by U.S.  All part of giving U.S. full rein in country against terrorists.

-U.S. tried to get Spain to curb its probes of Gitmo torture and rendition.

-Egyptian torturers trained by FBI—although allegedly to teach the human rights issues.

-State Dept memo: U.S.-backed 2009 coup in Honduras was 'illegal and unconstitutional.'”

-Cables on Tunisia appear to help spark revolt in that country. The country's ruling elite described as “The Family,” with Mafia-like skimming throughout the economy. The country's First Lady may have made massive profits off a private school.

-U.S. knew all about massive corruption in Tunisia back in 2006 but went on supporting the government anyway, making it the pillar of its North Africa policy.

-Cables showed the UK promised in 2009 to protect U.S interests in the official Chilcot inquiry on the start of the Iraq war.

-Washington was misled by our own diplomats on Russia-Georgia showdown.

-Extremely important historical document finally released in full: Ambassador April Glaspie's cable from Iraq in 1990 on meeting with Saddam Hussein before Kuwait invasion.

-The UK sidestepped a ban on housing cluster bombs. Officials concealed from Parliament how the U.S. is allowed to bring weapons on to British soil in defiance of treaty.

-New York Times:  “From hundreds of diplomatic cables, Afghanistan emerges as a looking-glass land where bribery, extortion and embezzlement are the norm and the honest man is a distinct outlier.”

-Afghan vice president left country with $52 million “in cash.”

-Shocking levels of U.S. spying at the United Nations (beyond what was commonly assumed) and intense use of diplomats abroad in intelligence-gathering roles.

-Potential environmental disaster kept secret by the US when a large consignment of highly enriched uranium in Libya came close to cracking open and leaking radioactive material into the atmosphere.

-U.S. used threats, spying, and more to try to get its way at last year's crucial climate conference in Copenhagen.

-Details on Vatican hiding big sex abuse cases in Ireland.

-Hundreds of cables detail U.S. use of diplomats as “sales” agents, more than previously thought, centering on jet rivalry of Boeing vs. Airbus. Hints of corruption and bribes.

-Millions in U.S. military aid for fighting Pakistani insurgents went to other gov't uses (or stolen) instead.

-Israel wanted to bring Gaza to the ”brink of collapse.”

-The U.S. secret services used Turkey as a base to transport terrorism suspects as part of its extraordinary rendition program.

-As protests spread in Egypt, cables revealed that strong man Suleiman was at center of government's torture programs, causing severe backlash for Mubarak after he named Suleiman vice president during the revolt.  Other cables revealed or confirmed widespread Mubarak regime corruption, police abuses and torture, and claims of massive Mubarak famiiy fortune, significantly influencing media coverage and U.S. response.

It really doesn't matter who is President. This stuff just gets carried over from one administration to the next.
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Lee
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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2013, 04:58:29 PM »

I don't care what he "brought to light". He had a clearance and agreed to protect that data. He didn't. 35 years is too short.
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Moliere
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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2013, 05:55:57 PM »

Quote from: Lee on August 21, 2013, 04:58:29 PM

I don't care what he "brought to light". He had a clearance and agreed to protect that data. He didn't. 35 years is too short.

Even if those things are unconstitutional? Does he swear an oath to the constitution or his superior officer?
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Lee
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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2013, 06:21:15 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on August 21, 2013, 05:55:57 PM

Quote from: Lee on August 21, 2013, 04:58:29 PM

I don't care what he "brought to light". He had a clearance and agreed to protect that data. He didn't. 35 years is too short.

Even if those things are unconstitutional? Does he swear an oath to the constitution or his superior officer?

If he felt the intelligence he was learning of was illegal, there were options he could have taken.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 01:47:03 AM by Lee » Logged
Isgrimnur
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2013, 06:43:32 PM »

Agreed.  There were better options than dumping stuff that I'm sure he didn't have time to review in full to a foreign national whose stock in trade is attempting to embarrass Western governments.
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« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 01:37:33 AM »

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naednek
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« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 02:02:19 AM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on August 22, 2013, 01:37:33 AM



That's exactly what I was thinking, except in a denver uni
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corruptrelic
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« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2013, 12:32:34 PM »

Don't call him Bradley!

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Bradley Manning, the US soldier sentenced to 35 years for leaking secret documents, said Thursday he now considers himself as a woman called Chelsea.

"As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me," the 25-year-old said in a statement read out on NBC's TODAY show in the presence of his lawyer, David Coombs.

"I am Chelsea Manning, I am a female."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jVorDPS3GUF1qUr6WDK0qErG8i1Q?docId=CNG.73271eb64bb06c4506595f048e1a0d18.3f1
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« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 12:56:44 PM »

"I don't know about the sex reassignment surgery... Chelsea hasn't indicated that that would be her desire, but as far as the hormone therapy, yes," he said. "I'm hoping Fort Leavenworth would do the right thing and provide that."

I am guessing he's out of luck on this one. What an idiot, he completely screws up his life, is going to jail for it, and yet feel it's important to release a statement about wanting to be a girl. Great, I am sure his cell mates will make him feel like he's very pretty. He will soon be forgotten, well besides when his name is used as example to new recruits of what not to do.
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naednek
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« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 01:43:51 PM »

Do you think he's pulling the I'm not a boy, I'm a girl card so he can go to a female prison where it maybe not as bad a all male prison?
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« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2013, 05:32:57 PM »

Prison is probably a very good place for him to be treated like a girl.

I don't know if it's true elsewhere, but a court recently forced the state of Mass. to pay for an inmate's sex-change operation. Dude killed his wife, yet the taxpayers are somehow on the hook for his gender identity disorder. Strange world.
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« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2013, 05:52:42 PM »

This is a brilliant play.

If 'transgendered' 6 year olds can use bathrooms of the opposite sex, why can't a gender confused d00d request being sent to an all female prison.

Let's go libs! Sort this one out.
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Lee
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« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2013, 07:12:04 PM »

Quote from: ATB on August 22, 2013, 05:52:42 PM

This is a brilliant play.

If 'transgendered' 6 year olds can use bathrooms of the opposite sex, why can't a gender confused d00d request being sent to an all female prison.

Let's go libs! Sort this one out.

I am liberal, and don't agree with it. Left/Right is not as cut as dry as Fox would like to make it. You do yourself a disservice by mentioning it.
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« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2013, 07:19:11 PM »

so instead of Manning we should call him Womanning?


dammit, where's Hepcat?  he should be making these jokes....
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« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 10:36:57 PM »

Badoom tiss!   

I think he's going to find the meaning of "tearing is sharing".  *shudder*   icon_eek
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« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2013, 10:48:17 PM »

Couldn't happen to a nicer security risk.
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« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2013, 12:58:58 AM »

Quote from: Lee on August 21, 2013, 06:21:15 PM

Quote from: Moliere on August 21, 2013, 05:55:57 PM

Quote from: Lee on August 21, 2013, 04:58:29 PM

I don't care what he "brought to light". He had a clearance and agreed to protect that data. He didn't. 35 years is too short.

Even if those things are unconstitutional? Does he swear an oath to the constitution or his superior officer?

If he felt the intelligence he had was learning of was illegal, there were options he could have taken.

Yea, those options have worked out real well for the people that have tried. That kind of stuff only works when the upper levels of the chain of command are unaware and would disapprove of it.

When thos up the chain are fully aware and have openly rejected claims that they are doing exactly what they ARE doing the only reward you will get is a smear job and end up a fall guy for something.

Of course Manning didn't know this, he was just an idiot burdened with a conscience, which is not very useful if you want to be in the intel business.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2013, 01:04:28 AM »

I don't even know what to say, I didn't expect the disgusting responses from a lot of you here.
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« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2013, 01:05:56 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on August 23, 2013, 01:04:28 AM

I don't even know what to say, I didn't expect the disgusting responses from a lot of you here.

Now there is something I have never heard you say before.
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Lee
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« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2013, 01:53:45 AM »

Quote from: Rip on August 23, 2013, 12:58:58 AM

Quote from: Lee on August 21, 2013, 06:21:15 PM

Quote from: Moliere on August 21, 2013, 05:55:57 PM

Quote from: Lee on August 21, 2013, 04:58:29 PM

I don't care what he "brought to light". He had a clearance and agreed to protect that data. He didn't. 35 years is too short.

Even if those things are unconstitutional? Does he swear an oath to the constitution or his superior officer?

If he felt the intelligence he had was learning of was illegal, there were options he could have taken.

Yea, those options have worked out real well for the people that have tried. That kind of stuff only works when the upper levels of the chain of command are unaware and would disapprove of it.

When thos up the chain are fully aware and have openly rejected claims that they are doing exactly what they ARE doing the only reward you will get is a smear job and end up a fall guy for something.

Of course Manning didn't know this, he was just an idiot burdened with a conscience, which is not very useful if you want to be in the intel business.

Not necessarily true, he could have went through the Inspector General if his chain failed him. Sure it would have been a rough path to take, but couldn't be much worse than how it ended up for him.

A lot of what he seemed to have released was just crap that did nothing but embarrass the governments involved though. I don't think it had anything to do with a conscience, but wanting attention.
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Lee
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« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2013, 01:55:15 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on August 23, 2013, 01:04:28 AM

I don't even know what to say, I didn't expect the disgusting responses from a lot of you here.

Oh please let me be one of those disgusting you. I would feel dirty if we were in agreement.
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« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2013, 02:56:04 AM »

Quote from: Lee on August 23, 2013, 01:53:45 AM

Quote from: Rip on August 23, 2013, 12:58:58 AM

Quote from: Lee on August 21, 2013, 06:21:15 PM

Quote from: Moliere on August 21, 2013, 05:55:57 PM

Quote from: Lee on August 21, 2013, 04:58:29 PM

I don't care what he "brought to light". He had a clearance and agreed to protect that data. He didn't. 35 years is too short.

Even if those things are unconstitutional? Does he swear an oath to the constitution or his superior officer?

If he felt the intelligence he had was learning of was illegal, there were options he could have taken.

Yea, those options have worked out real well for the people that have tried. That kind of stuff only works when the upper levels of the chain of command are unaware and would disapprove of it.

When thos up the chain are fully aware and have openly rejected claims that they are doing exactly what they ARE doing the only reward you will get is a smear job and end up a fall guy for something.

Of course Manning didn't know this, he was just an idiot burdened with a conscience, which is not very useful if you want to be in the intel business.

Not necessarily true, he could have went through the Inspector General if his chain failed him. Sure it would have been a rough path to take, but couldn't be much worse than how it ended up for him.

A lot of what he seemed to have released was just crap that did nothing but embarrass the governments involved though. I don't think it had anything to do with a conscience, but wanting attention.

Again, one only need look at what has been done to others to see how that works.

http://www.whistleblower.org/program-areas/homeland-security-a-human-rights/surveillance/nsa-whistleblowers-bill-binney-a-j-kirk-wiebe

Quote
William (Bill) Binney and J. Kirk Wiebe are GAP clients and National Security Agency (NSA) whistleblowers who worked at the agency for decades. A mathematician, Binney worked for the NSA for almost forty years, where he and analyst Wiebe, who worked at NSA in excess of 30 years, developed a revolutionary information processing system called ThinThread that they believe could have detected and prevented the 9/11 terrorist attacks. But NSA officials ignored ThinThread in favor of Trailblazer – a much more expensive program that not only ended in total failure, but cost taxpayers billions of dollars.

Worried about the nation’s ability to protect itself, they blew the whistle on the clear mismanagement surrounding the Trailblazer fiasco, using appropriate channels to share their concerns with Congress and the Department of Defense Inspector General (DoD IG). Despite their efforts, no one was held accountable at NSA for one of the worst intelligence failures in history. Little did they know at the time, Binney and Wiebe would face harsh retaliation from NSA for their efforts to make the truth known.

After the failure of U.S. intelligence to prevent the events of 9/11, the NSA wrongfully applied a component of the ThinThread system to illegally spy on the private communications of U.S. citizens. Unable to stay at the NSA any longer in good conscience, Binney and Wiebe retired in October 2001. After retiring, Binney and Wiebe continued to blow the whistle from outside the agency. GAP provided Binney and Wiebe with legal advice on whistleblowing matters and assisted them with media and public advocacy.

Since that time, Binney and Wiebe have made several key disclosures crucial to the ongoing public debate about America's national security state, such as the first public description of NSA’s massive domestic spying program, Stellar Wind, which intercepts domestic communications without protections for US citizens. Binney revealed that NSA has been given access to telecommunications companies’ domestic and international billing records, and that since 9/11 the agency has intercepted between 15 and 20 trillion communications. Binney further disclosed that Stellar Wind was grouped under the patriotic-sounding “Terrorist Surveillance Program” in order to give cover to its constitutionally-questionable nature.

Quote
Fear of reprisal was a credible fear, and it meant much more than simply losing a job, though such a fear usually serves to silence many employees.  The original IG complainants became targets of a criminal investigation and four were subjected to simultaneous armed FBI raids.  Binney described on 60 Minutes how he was pulled naked from the shower with a gun held to his head.  All three believed the raids were retaliation for the IG complaint.  Roark said in The New Yorker

who always considered herself “a law-and-order person,” said of the raid, “This changed my faith.” . . . “I didn’t think the system was perfect, but I thought they’d play fair with me. They didn’t. I felt it was retribution.”
Drake was also subjected to an armed FBI raid, but worse, he was indicted for 10 felonies, charged under the Espionage Act (a charge that purposefully implied he was a traitor and enemy of the state), and faced decades in prison until the Justice Department's ill-conceived case imploded two weeks ago. 

The IG Report also includes a slew of blanket denials by the NSA and substantial evidence that NSA attempted to suppress internal criticism. According to the IG Report, the 

NSA modified or suppressed studies
But NSA management questioned this statement and complained that

the audit report did not identify where the information was obtained

The Report did not identify sources because
We have documented information to support this statement, however, because of fear of reprisal, we agreed to keep the sources anonymous.
While it is commendable that the partial IG Report has been released, we don't yet know the complete story as so much of the Report has been redacted.  However, what we do know confirms what Drake has been saying all along, and a fuller picture would only further implicate NSA and substantiate the whistleblowers.  For that reason alone, NSA will no doubt fight to keep its malfeasance secret.

Special thanks and kudos to the Project on Government Oversight, particularly Nick Schwellenbach, who obtained the report after a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)   requests from POGO, GAP, and other media outlets.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/23/987930/-What-The-Drake-Prosecution-Was-Really-About-IG-Report-Vindicates-NSA-Whistleblowers#

We aren't talking about unfounded fear here, the hard cold reality is that whistleblowing about decisions made at the WH is a dead end street.
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« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2013, 03:54:55 AM »

There are three branches of the government. If working within the intelligence community and the IG doesn't work, there's always talking to the oversight committees.

I'm not saying there's an easy answer here, but there's a scale between IG and Wikileaks.
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« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2013, 04:03:08 AM »

I have very little sympathy for Manning. While some of the material released to wikileaks was clearly related to potentially illegal activities, and deserved to be released, the vast majority of it was material about day to day United States diplomatic activities. Some of it was embarrassing to our government and other governments. Some of it is prurient. And a lot of it caused great harm to the US's ability to engage in diplomatic operations -- to wage peace. Diplomacy can be a slimy business, but it's better than war. Manning seemed to ignore that fact, and the information released did more to hurt America's diplomatic efforts than it did to constrain our military activities.

Manning also chose to release the information not to a credible media outlet that could have examined and only released things that highlighted actual official misconduct, but to an international organization that stupidly believes that governments should have no secrets. This ensured that the information that would uncover no misdeeds, but which would embarrass or hamper US diplomatic operations, was released to the broader world. Not cool. That release of information, to me, justifies Manning's sentence.

Regarding Manning's transgenderism: this has been an open secret for more than a year. While the press at large has referred to Manning as gay, in LGBT political circles the fact that Manning was suffering gender dysphoria and might be transgendered was fairly well known. Now that she is choosing to transition her sex to match her gender, it'll be more broadly known. Not the sort of attention the already maligned and misunderstood transgendered community needs, but there's nothing that can be done about that.

How transgendered prisoners are dealt with varies from prison system to prison system. Since hormonal treatments are considered necessary therapy for transgendered people, even those who will never fully transition, I would expect that Manning will receive those treatments. However, since transgendered individuals were not covered under DADT or its repeal, gender dysphoria and transgenderism are grounds for dismissal from the military. At present, I am not even certain the military has had an openly transgendered prisoner before. We could be in new territory here.

What sympathy I do have for Manning comes from knowing that being transgendered is much, much harder than being gay. Most people don't understand it. It's not a condition you can easily address yourself -- no amount of sex, or drugs, or alcohol, or prayer is going to close the gap between one's physical sex and one's mental gender. I imagine that Manning, like many transgendered people, initially thought that the mismatch between how he felt and how those around him seemed to feel was due to homosexuality, only to find that fooling around with persons of the same sex did nothing to address the problem. Feeling out of control of one's self often leads to fleeing towards structured environments that one hopes will provide an external discipline to correct what is "wrong" that internal efforts haven't "fixed." I don't know if Manning was aware of her transgenderism when entering the military, but clearly she found no solution or solace there.

Manning doesn't deserve to go to jail for releasing the documents detailing American misdeeds. She does, however, deserve to go to jail for all of the other classified material that was released. While moving into a military prison is the worst possible time to publicly admit one's transgenderism, I do hope that this is an early step towards Manning addressing the existential problem she's been grappling with for much of her life. If nothing else, the next seven to ten years should provide her with ample time.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 04:06:27 AM by Fireball1244 » Logged

brettmcd
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« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2013, 05:19:38 AM »

Quote from: Lee on August 23, 2013, 01:55:15 AM

Quote from: brettmcd on August 23, 2013, 01:04:28 AM

I don't even know what to say, I didn't expect the disgusting responses from a lot of you here.

Oh please let me be one of those disgusting you. I would feel dirty if we were in agreement.

Some day maybe you will learn how to be a decent human being, sadly this thread isn't showing that as being very likely.
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« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2013, 09:56:21 AM »

Oh Brett, your chubby little cheeks are so cute when you are angry.

Fireball's first two paragraphs sum up my feelings on it. I would have had sympathy maybe if he had found something that he felt was morally reprehensible and went to real journalists with it (still wouldn't agree, but I could understand it). Just shoveling anything he could find onto a CD and giving it to a site like Wikileaks was not the way to do it. As Isgrimnur said, there are other ways, it won't be easy, but it can't be much worse than the way it did turn out for him.

He seems like a troubled kid, I almost feel sorry for him, but the more I hear about him, the more I feel he is deserving what is happening to him. How did he make it as long as he did in the Army?
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« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2013, 10:14:49 AM »

Quote from: Lee on August 23, 2013, 09:56:21 AM

Oh Brett, your chubby little cheeks...
Uh-oh, now you've done it...
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brettmcd
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« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2013, 11:51:56 AM »

Quote from: Lee on August 23, 2013, 09:56:21 AM

Oh Brett, your chubby little cheeks are so cute when you are angry.

Fireball's first two paragraphs sum up my feelings on it. I would have had sympathy maybe if he had found something that he felt was morally reprehensible and went to real journalists with it (still wouldn't agree, but I could understand it). Just shoveling anything he could find onto a CD and giving it to a site like Wikileaks was not the way to do it. As Isgrimnur said, there are other ways, it won't be easy, but it can't be much worse than the way it did turn out for him.

He seems like a troubled kid, I almost feel sorry for him, but the more I hear about him, the more I feel he is deserving what is happening to him. How did he make it as long as he did in the Army?

Lets see you hate despise and make fun of people who are transgendered, overweight..... any other groups you want to show your true feelings about?
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« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2013, 12:58:16 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on August 23, 2013, 11:51:56 AM

Lets see you hate despise and make fun of people who are transgendered, overweight..... any other groups you want to show your true feelings about?

Interesting, I have not shown my feelings about any of the groups you mentioned. Keep digging buddy. Want to meet up for a bowl later? Still at that AOL address? I'll email you.

Edit: Oh wait, I did accuse people in jail of homosexual acts. Sorry Brett, didn't know that applied to you, I will be more careful in the future.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 01:00:57 PM by Lee » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2013, 01:35:04 PM »

Keep digging that hole there Lee, every thing you post shows more and more of the disgusting human being you are.
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« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2013, 03:24:46 PM »

alright, lets move on.  You guys sound like your brothers who don't like each other smile
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« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2013, 03:34:12 PM »

can we swap brett out for Eco?
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« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2013, 05:40:53 PM »

Quote from: naednek on August 23, 2013, 03:24:46 PM

alright, lets move on.  You guys sound like your brothers who don't like each other smile

Why wouldn't their brothers like each other?
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« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2013, 05:42:17 PM »

Quote from: ATB on August 23, 2013, 05:40:53 PM

Quote from: naednek on August 23, 2013, 03:24:46 PM

alright, lets move on.  You guys sound like your brothers who don't like each other smile

Why wouldn't their brothers like each other?
BAM!  Grammar burn.  (people still say burn...right?  right??  guys? where are you going?)
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Ron Burke
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« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2013, 05:54:55 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on August 23, 2013, 03:34:12 PM

can we swap brett out for Eco?

lol. I did find it a little curious that as soon as Eco disappeared brett suddenly popped out of the woodwork.
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"Is there any chance your jolly Garchomp is female?" - Wonderpug
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