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Author Topic: Make your VEEP predictions!  (Read 35293 times)
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VynlSol
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« Reply #120 on: August 30, 2008, 12:18:01 AM »

Quote from: TC Weidner on August 29, 2008, 08:29:31 PM

it amazes me that some people act as if being a constitutional scholar , and teaching constitutional law in one of the finest schools in the world , is not worthy experience in itself. ( God forbid we have someone who actually understands the constitution hold the office whos main duty is to uphold and protect the constitution)These same people are also so intellectually lazy they simply ignore the fact that McCain had a terrible academic record.

Maybe this country is just too stupid to exist any longer.

A solid understanding of the constitution is a definate plus for a candidate. Given that the position of president is a leadership role, not a teaching role, Obama's career in academia can only be squeezed so much for correlatable experience. But I agree, Obama's time in the ivory tower shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

I wasn't aware that McCain had a terrible academic record. Did he attend KU?  icon_biggrin

I fully expect my candidate for president to understand the consitution of this country. That person should be able to recite the motherfucker from memory. They should be cogent of relevant case law, it's history, it's implications, how our consitution compares to the governing documents of other countries, what the leading thinkers of the world have opined about it since its inception, etc.

I also expect that level of facility with regards to our constitution to be merely one small piece of the overall set of qualities that recommend the candidate for the top political leadership role in our country.

Ultimately, for me, all of this experience/lack of experience blather is a non-issue. Tenure in a position is not an indication of future ability just the same as lack of tenure is not an indication of poor future ability. In a role that you don't get experience at until you've actually done it, no less.

Feh.
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« Reply #121 on: August 30, 2008, 12:28:54 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on August 29, 2008, 11:50:27 PM

Ahhhh.   I see you got the Obama/Liberal talking points memo.    Took less time than I could get home from work and check the forum.    Very nice.

Palin is an exceptional choice.    As I stated on the other forum we all know -- I was rooting strongly for her as the choice.     She's a working mom.   Her husband is a steelworker union member.    She was heavily involved in the education system.    She's an exceptional political talent, and she's going to be a very tough and formidable force against the Obama campaign this fall.

VERY GOOD CHOICE!    thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

I think it's possible that McCain did even less vetting than you do on your republican crush-of-the-month (what happened to Meg Whitman?  And Mike Huckabee?  And Bobby Jindal?)

This pick is a clear pander.  Think of many qualified republican VP candidates there were - Romney, Huckabee, Pawlenty, Ridge, Lieberman, etc.  Is there any way Palin gets the nod over them if gender isn't the primary factor in the pick?  No, clearly not.  McCain ran an ad last week that appears pretty hypocritical in retrospect.   And unlike the ridiculous "PUMA" meme that your team spreads, there are actually some upset factions in the republican party.

But back to Palin.  Alaskan legislators, both Republican and Democrat, were happy to criticize her to the press today.

Choice quotes:

Quote
State Senate President Lyda Green said she thought it was a joke when someone called her at 6 a.m. to tell her the news.

"She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president? said Green, a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

Quote
House Speaker John Harris, a Republican from Valdez, was also astonished at the news. He didn't want to get into the issue of her qualifications.

"She's old enough," Harris said. "She's a U.S. citizen."

Ringing endorsements in your world, I assume.

And most delightfully for this upcoming season, she's been lying about this scandal in Alaska for which she's being investigated.  The report on the corruption charges will be released just days before the election.

Thumbs up indeed!
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« Reply #122 on: August 30, 2008, 12:57:18 AM »

Am I being over-cynical or did McCain make this choice exclusively to help pick up disenfranchised Clinton supporters?
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gellar
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« Reply #123 on: August 30, 2008, 01:33:57 AM »

Let's face it, the Repubs could've rolled out Darth Vader as a running mate and 80% of the party would back the ticket like it was the second coming.  It's one of the things the Repubs have always done WAY better than the Dems: blind, utterly retarded, completely unwavering faith.

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msduncan
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« Reply #124 on: August 30, 2008, 01:45:50 AM »

Quote

I think it's possible that McCain did even less vetting than you do on your republican crush-of-the-month (what happened to Meg Whitman?  And Mike Huckabee?  And Bobby Jindal?)

I still love Huckabee.    I never liked Meg Whitman and I challenge you to find the post where I said I did.    I also love Bobby Jindal, but he stated a month ago that he wasn't intrested.

Quote
This pick is a clear pander.  Think of many qualified republican VP candidates there were - Romney, Huckabee, Pawlenty, Ridge, Lieberman, etc.  Is there any way Palin gets the nod over them if gender isn't the primary factor in the pick?  No, clearly not.  McCain ran an ad last week that appears pretty hypocritical in retrospect.   And unlike the ridiculous "PUMA" meme that your team spreads, there are actually some upset factions in the republican party.

You would have given your right testicle for him to choose one of those other candidates.     In fact Obama's staff had reviewed hours of Romney material and had commercials ready to go, but were caught completely off guard by the pick.      Are you upset that Obama got caught flat footed on this?   Of course you are.

And please get the nonsense about people within the party being upset at the pick outta my face.   Half your damn party was upset about Obama getting the nod over Hillary.

Quote
But back to Palin.  Alaskan legislators, both Republican and Democrat, were happy to criticize her to the press today.

Of course they were.     You are choosing to completely ignore, for your own political mudslinging purposes, the crux of McCain's reason for picking her.    She became governor of Alaska to clean up the corruption of both parties in the state.... she did so... and pissed a buch of people off (mostly Republicans) in the process.    Sounds like change I can believe in.

Quote
Ringing endorsements in your world, I assume.

And most delightfully for this upcoming season, she's been lying about this scandal in Alaska for which she's being investigated.  The report on the corruption charges will be released just days before the election.

Thumbs up indeed!

Unlike you, I don't rely on endorsements from career politicians to shape my opinions.     Your candidate is running a washington outsider campaign, right?    Biden is a Washington outsider right?   Oh... 

And that garbage 'scandal' you are desperately clinging to is a non-story.
[/quote]
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« Reply #125 on: August 30, 2008, 01:59:29 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on August 29, 2008, 11:56:33 PM

Quote from: jblank on August 29, 2008, 07:32:13 PM

But that is irrelevant Proner and it doesn't make her more qualified than any of them. Using your logic, she is actually more qualified to be President (even though being a Gov. isn't a qualification) than 100 Senators and 435 Congressmen......that just isn't the case.

Here is the rub:

McCain campaign has an experience-light VP candidate
Obama campaign has an experience-light Presidential candidate.

I don't even agree with that. This belief that Obama is a novice has GOT to end. The man has an extremely distinguished career and just because a lot of it's done at the state level (before 2004 obviously) doesn't mean he is inexperienced. Remember Abraham Lincoln, his highest elected office was the Illinois State Legislature and a single term in the US House. Just sayin'.
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msduncan
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« Reply #126 on: August 30, 2008, 02:01:44 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on August 29, 2008, 08:41:15 PM

I look forward to republicans explaining Palin's signing of a windfall profits tax on oil companies in Alaska.

This post is like a window on your soul.    Instead of using a position your party supports against an opposite party candidate, you should be be commending her for taking a like-minded stance.

Anything to bring McCain-Palin down I suppose.
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« Reply #127 on: August 30, 2008, 02:02:32 AM »

Quote from: gellar on August 30, 2008, 01:33:57 AM

Let's face it, the Repubs could've rolled out Darth Vader as a running mate and 80% of the party would back the ticket like it was the second coming.  It's one of the things the Repubs have always done WAY better than the Dems: blind, utterly retarded, completely unwavering faith.

gellar

Post of the day!

There is the winner boys, well said Gellar.
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msduncan
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« Reply #128 on: August 30, 2008, 02:03:46 AM »

Quote from: jblank on August 30, 2008, 01:59:29 AM

Quote from: msduncan on August 29, 2008, 11:56:33 PM

Quote from: jblank on August 29, 2008, 07:32:13 PM

But that is irrelevant Proner and it doesn't make her more qualified than any of them. Using your logic, she is actually more qualified to be President (even though being a Gov. isn't a qualification) than 100 Senators and 435 Congressmen......that just isn't the case.

Here is the rub:

McCain campaign has an experience-light VP candidate
Obama campaign has an experience-light Presidential candidate.

I don't even agree with that. This belief that Obama is a novice has GOT to end. The man has an extremely distinguished career and just because a lot of it's done at the state level (before 2004 obviously) doesn't mean he is inexperienced. Remember Abraham Lincoln, his highest elected office was the Illinois State Legislature and a single term in the US House. Just sayin'.

And he was a true leader during those years..... oh wait.... no he wasn't.    He voted party line every single time right in line with how his Illinois and then US Senate leaders told him to vote.    

Change I can believe in.......   hmm....  
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« Reply #129 on: August 30, 2008, 02:06:17 AM »

At least Obama has IDEAS and is the real candidate of change. McCain's tired, old, uninspiring, dangerous, and it's going to 4 more years of ludicrous foreign policy. How much more do you want our reputation in the world to drop MSD? How much more CAN it drop? Vote for McCain and find out.

He'll change a heckuva lot more in Washington than John McCain ever will. I can promise you that.
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« Reply #130 on: August 30, 2008, 02:24:01 AM »

Quote from: jblank on August 30, 2008, 02:06:17 AM

At least Obama has IDEAS and is the real candidate of change.

Socialist and wealth-redistribution ideas.   More ideas than he can pay for without running the economy into the ground with massive tax increases.  Ideas I can't afford.

Quote
McCain's tired, old, uninspiring, dangerous, and it's going to 4 more years of ludicrous foreign policy.

You mean like the surge?   You know.... the one that worked.    The one that Obama opposed and McCain supported?    An idea that was correct.

Quote
How much more do you want our reputation in the world to drop MSD? How much more CAN it drop? Vote for McCain and find out.

I don't vote based on how I think our Eurpoean friends want us to vote.

Quote
He'll change a heckuva lot more in Washington than John McCain ever will. I can promise you that.

Really?    What do you see in all those party line votes that tells you he will change anything?   What do you see in his VP pick that tells you he will change anything?    What do you see in his closest political allies (the Kennedy's) makes you think he'll change anything?

McCain was the change candidate before change candidates were in style 8 years ago.       You have bought and swallowed the cool-aid because Obama has crafted a Rock tour rather than a serious attempt at change and leadership.     He is the ultimate embedded beltway dweller with nothing but party line votes and career politician allies and a VP that is the same.
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msduncan
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« Reply #131 on: August 30, 2008, 02:27:24 AM »

The woman who took on her own party, and won.
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« Reply #132 on: August 30, 2008, 02:39:45 AM »

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brettmcd
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« Reply #133 on: August 30, 2008, 02:50:24 AM »

Quote from: jblank on August 30, 2008, 02:06:17 AM

At least Obama has IDEAS and is the real candidate of change. McCain's tired, old, uninspiring, dangerous, and it's going to 4 more years of ludicrous foreign policy. How much more do you want our reputation in the world to drop MSD? How much more CAN it drop? Vote for McCain and find out.

He'll change a heckuva lot more in Washington than John McCain ever will. I can promise you that.

Yes he will, more taxes, more social welfare and socialism, more spending, more government more more more.   You are correct in that is change, too bad its not the change that best for the country.
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« Reply #134 on: August 30, 2008, 03:14:05 AM »

I'm listening to the pundits on tv talk about how the VP choice has to be someone that the candidate trusts and is comfortable with.

McCain has met this woman once...

...huh?  How can anyone look at this and think it's anything other than a snap-judgement, politically based move? 
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mori
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« Reply #135 on: August 30, 2008, 03:17:16 AM »

This was a desperation choice any way you look at it. Welcome to power Carter II.
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« Reply #136 on: August 30, 2008, 03:35:24 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on August 30, 2008, 02:50:24 AM

Quote from: jblank on August 30, 2008, 02:06:17 AM

At least Obama has IDEAS and is the real candidate of change. McCain's tired, old, uninspiring, dangerous, and it's going to 4 more years of ludicrous foreign policy. How much more do you want our reputation in the world to drop MSD? How much more CAN it drop? Vote for McCain and find out.

He'll change a heckuva lot more in Washington than John McCain ever will. I can promise you that.

Yes he will, more taxes, more social welfare and socialism, more spending, more government more more more.   You are correct in that is change, too bad its not the change that best for the country.

Oh Christ, are you over here at GT now?

I'm bowing out of the thread then, I have nothing to say to you Brett and your being in this thread is a bad sign for the prospects of it staying peaceful.
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« Reply #137 on: August 30, 2008, 03:55:32 AM »

Quote from: leo8877 on August 30, 2008, 03:14:05 AM

...huh?  How can anyone look at this and think it's anything other than a snap-judgement, politically based move? 

true, it's nothing but an attempt to set up the first female president to be a Republican.
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« Reply #138 on: August 30, 2008, 04:55:07 AM »

At the end of the day, why shouldn't a Presidential candidate try to win an election? Aren't politicians trying to get elected so that they can enact their ideas and represent their constituents? Or are the Dems just upset that McCain didn't hand them the election on a silver platter by picking an easy target like Romney?

I'm puzzled when the Obama-philes criticize McCain for trying to win the Presidency. Isn't that the whole goal of running for President?



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leo8877
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« Reply #139 on: August 30, 2008, 05:14:50 AM »

Actually I think he did just hand the Dems the election.
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« Reply #140 on: August 30, 2008, 06:04:25 AM »

On November 6th, 2006, the official line of the Republican party was that the war in Iraq was going fantastically and Donald Rumsfeld, the genius who brought America such a phenomenal victory, would remain a valuable asset to the Bush administration straight through to the end.

Two days later, on November 8th, 2006, the official line of the Republican party was that the war in Iraq had been badly mismanaged, the strategy there desperately needed to change, and Donald Rumsfeld had to go.  What caused the change?  The results of the 2006 election, in which Republicans got stomped in elections throughout the country.

It was fascinating to watch.  Thousands of people: politicians, pundits, radio personalities, and bloggers all simultaneously adopting a staunch, ethical, patriotic stance diametrically opposed to the staunch, ethical, patriotic stance they'd held just hours previously.  And the lockstep was so mechanical, so automatic, they seemed to forget they'd changed direction the moment after it occurred.  "Of course the war was mismanaged!  Old news!  Now Bush has us on the right track...!"  At the time, I thought they were just relieved that they could finally stop pretending to be blind, deaf, and stupid about the reality in Iraq, but they wanted to breeze through the transition without admitting they'd been dead wrong.

This vice presidential thing, though...this is something different. 

24-hours ago, Republicans were slamming Barack Obama because he hadn't held elected office long enough and was too inexperienced.  Then John McCain nominated someone who is actually *less* qualified in that regard...and all of a sudden, the definition of "inexperience" has changed.  Nobody seems capable of explaining what the new criteria is, except that Palin is a perfect choice, and Obama still isn't.

But here's the part I'm really starting to wonder about: they're all acting as though absolutely nothing is different.  And I mean *all* of them.  In less than a day, every single Republican opinion I've encountered has completely redefined the qualifications for executive office in this country, and not *one* of them will acknowledge that only a few hours ago, they fervently believed something totally different.

To the people lauding the choice of Sarah Palin: do you see any logical disconnects at all between how you were judging Obama's experience on Thursday compared to Saturday?  If so, why are you pretending otherwise?

And if not...God, I'm so, so sorry for you icon_frown

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #141 on: August 30, 2008, 06:14:25 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing
I'm puzzled when the Obama-philes criticize McCain for trying to win the Presidency. Isn't that the whole goal of running for President?

I can't speak for all Obama-philes, but personally, I think a presidential race should be founded on some sort of consistent principles. 

When McCain and his supporters spend weeks slandering the opposition for their lack of experience, then wildly support a Republican running mate with even fewer credentials, and try to weasel out of the obvious hypocrisy by rejiggering their "core values" to suit the new circumstances, that's neither consistent nor principled.

Quick, someone enlighten me: how many years as a state or U.S. senator does it take to equal the experience earned by one year as the mayor of Brockway, Ogdenville, or North Haverbrook?

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #142 on: August 30, 2008, 07:11:26 AM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on August 30, 2008, 06:04:25 AM

On November 6th, 2006, the official line of the Republican party was that the war in Iraq was going fantastically and Donald Rumsfeld, the genius who brought America such a phenomenal victory, would remain a valuable asset to the Bush administration straight through to the end.

Two days later, on November 8th, 2006, the official line of the Republican party was that the war in Iraq had been badly mismanaged, the strategy there desperately needed to change, and Donald Rumsfeld had to go.  What caused the change?  The results of the 2006 election, in which Republicans got stomped in elections throughout the country.

It was fascinating to watch.  Thousands of people: politicians, pundits, radio personalities, and bloggers all simultaneously adopting a staunch, ethical, patriotic stance diametrically opposed to the staunch, ethical, patriotic stance they'd held just hours previously.  And the lockstep was so mechanical, so automatic, they seemed to forget they'd changed direction the moment after it occurred.  "Of course the war was mismanaged!  Old news!  Now Bush has us on the right track...!"  At the time, I thought they were just relieved that they could finally stop pretending to be blind, deaf, and stupid about the reality in Iraq, but they wanted to breeze through the transition without admitting they'd been dead wrong.

This vice presidential thing, though...this is something different. 

24-hours ago, Republicans were slamming Barack Obama because he hadn't held elected office long enough and was too inexperienced.  Then John McCain nominated someone who is actually *less* qualified in that regard...and all of a sudden, the definition of "inexperience" has changed.  Nobody seems capable of explaining what the new criteria is, except that Palin is a perfect choice, and Obama still isn't.

But here's the part I'm really starting to wonder about: they're all acting as though absolutely nothing is different.  And I mean *all* of them.  In less than a day, every single Republican opinion I've encountered has completely redefined the qualifications for executive office in this country, and not *one* of them will acknowledge that only a few hours ago, they fervently believed something totally different.

To the people lauding the choice of Sarah Palin: do you see any logical disconnects at all between how you were judging Obama's experience on Thursday compared to Saturday?  If so, why are you pretending otherwise?

And if not...God, I'm so, so sorry for you icon_frown

-Autistic Angel

Im not even a McCain fan, and wont be voting for him, but if you cant see the difference between the boss having no experience, and the bosses assistant who has no real power having no experience, then I am so so sorry for you.
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« Reply #143 on: August 30, 2008, 09:04:42 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on August 30, 2008, 07:11:26 AM

Im not even a McCain fan, and wont be voting for him, but if you cant see the difference between the boss having no experience, and the bosses assistant who has no real power having no experience, then I am so so sorry for you.

The Vice-Presidency does have power if only because John McCain has almost reached the national life expectancy and has had cancer before - so if we're to suggest that Obama doesn't have much experience, then to suggest that Palin is okay having even less experience with just the Vice-Presidency is laughable.

Of course I'd be fine with Palin's lack of experience. She seems fair enough so far, what's really disturbing is the fact that McCain underwent the decision to tap her with such seemingly little thought. Meeting her once before pegging her as VP? Sure we can say its great politics, and maybe it is, but it doesn't seem to be the best kind of decision making.
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« Reply #144 on: August 30, 2008, 11:49:42 AM »

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  Palin:

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« Reply #145 on: August 30, 2008, 12:09:20 PM »

Quote
To the people lauding the choice of Sarah Palin: do you see any logical disconnects at all between how you were judging Obama's experience on Thursday compared to Saturday?  If so, why are you pretending otherwise?

No. I don't think Sarah Palin is qualified to be President. But since she's not running for President, the point is moot. And why is the Obama camp trying to twist this around? I could just as easily say that if *you* don't believe that Palin is qualified to be Vice President, then how the hell do you think Obama is qualified to be THE President? This is not a one-way argument, as much as the media and the Democrats seem to think it is.

And again, why is the left so up in arms over this? If your candidate is going to win in November, then who cares if Palin is inexperienced or not? She's going to lose, right? She's not going to be able to take on Joe Biden in the debates, right? Why is there this atmosphere of pure panic and outrage coming from you guys?
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« Reply #146 on: August 30, 2008, 12:49:18 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on August 30, 2008, 12:09:20 PM

Quote
To the people lauding the choice of Sarah Palin: do you see any logical disconnects at all between how you were judging Obama's experience on Thursday compared to Saturday?  If so, why are you pretending otherwise?
...
But since she's not running for President, the point is moot.
...
 I could just as easily say that if *you* don't believe that Palin is qualified to be Vice President, then how the hell do you think Obama is qualified to be THE President?
This.
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« Reply #147 on: August 30, 2008, 01:25:41 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on August 30, 2008, 05:14:50 AM

Actually I think he did just hand the Dems the election.

This is what I'm hoping for.   The smug overconfidence ala 2004.
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« Reply #148 on: August 30, 2008, 02:45:52 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing
I could just as easily say that if *you* don't believe that Palin is qualified to be Vice President, then how the hell do you think Obama is qualified to be THE President?

Unfortunately for that argument, my position on this matter is remarkably consistent: Obama's level of experience doesn't bother me, nor does Palin's.  It's actually the very first thing I said on the matter.

That's how a real principle works.  It doesn't slap itself down on a pottery wheel and get reshaped according to the whim of some multi-millionaire radio pundit -- it's based on a genuine, core belief that many of the best presidents in American history would have been attacked by today's Republican party as being "too inexperienced."  I think most politicians are way too far removed from the everyday lives of their constituents, and that sometimes having an ideological leader whose memory of the private sector is still fresh and vivid can be an extremely valuable thing.

Republicans don't.  Or rather, they *didn't* -- today things are totally different, and tomorrow, you all could start pretending that experience doesn't matter all and nobody ever claimed otherwise.  The scary thing is that I'm starting to suspect you'd actually believe it.

Quote from: YellowKing
And again, why is the left so up in arms over this?

It's one thing to have rational disagreements on important issues.  It's another to have one side of the discussion randomly redefining its positions out of bitter contrariety as though issues like the war in Iraq and the energy crises are just abstract pieces in a global game of Calvinball.

I've always believed that Republicans believed in things.  Do they?  Do you even know?  Is it even *possible* to know?  If the partisan fog around you so thick that you only know where to stand because someone else tells you so, how do you know if your position on the landscape is changing?

Or are you a liar?  Do you secretly think that Sarah Palin is an awful choice that completely cedes McCain's previous position on experience, but you're so centered on Beating the Libs that you're willing to humiliate yourself by selling out your so-called principles?  Are Republicans silently gritting their teeth as they cast around trying to find some way to reconcile their actual beliefs with the need to defend this cynical ploy by their own party?  If so, why aren't they mad about being treated like a bunch of mindless automatons?

Either way, if Republicans are just going to follow The Party Line regardless of where it takes them, I'd really appreciate it if they could stop wasting everybody's time by pretending to have a legitimate cause.

-Autistic Angel
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TiLT
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« Reply #149 on: August 30, 2008, 04:14:28 PM »

Quote from: msduncan on August 30, 2008, 01:25:41 PM

Quote from: leo8877 on August 30, 2008, 05:14:50 AM

Actually I think he did just hand the Dems the election.

This is what I'm hoping for.   The smug overconfidence ala 2004.

I think a lot of people are looking for a balanced and informative discussion in this thread. Some of us just lurk, while others post. Most of the discussion actually lives up to its promise, and is interesting in several ways. Your posts however, are pure jackassery and remove the fun from reading the thread.

Seriously msduncan, are you completely incapable of discussing politics without being a competitive asshole about it? Nobody is giving you this kind of attitude back. Note that this is about pretty much all your posts in this thread, not just the one I quoted above.

And to stay on topic: As a non-American (Norwegian), I find the McCain's choice of Palin to be quite interesting. It's an obvious ploy to capture the female vote from Obama, but it looks like it can tip both ways. Every time I think this election has stabilized, someone does something to turn everything upside-down. What's next, I wonder...
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« Reply #150 on: August 30, 2008, 04:29:51 PM »

Let's tone down things a bit- concentrate on the topic and not the posters. 
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« Reply #151 on: August 30, 2008, 04:31:45 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on August 30, 2008, 04:29:51 PM

Let's tone down things a bit- concentrate on the topic and not the posters. 

Sorry. I was trying to be diplomatic about it, but it's hard to comment on this kind of thing without it being interpreted as a personal attack.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #152 on: August 30, 2008, 05:08:54 PM »

Quote from: TiLT
And to stay on topic: As a non-American (Norwegian), I find the McCain's choice of Palin to be quite interesting. It's an obvious ploy to capture the female vote from Obama, but it looks like it can tip both ways. Every time I think this election has stabilized, someone does something to turn everything upside-down. What's next, I wonder...

I *think* Palin will turn out to be a good choice for McCain.  She stands for all of the conservative right-wing positions you could hope for, and more importantly to me, she really walks the walk too: she actively hunts and has a son preparing to serve in Iraq.  Between McCain's military background and her own vested interested, it seems likely that the next Republican administration will take the welfare of our troops a lot more seriously than the current one.

Make no mistake: I disagree with Palin's stated views on the environment, Creationism, abortion rights, gay marriage, and others.  Nonetheless, from the small amount I've seen, I respect the way she follows through on her beliefs.

My concern about Palin is that she's been governor of Alaska for less than two years, yet she's already the subject of an active ethics investigation.  The little I know about the case makes me optimistic that she'll be fully cleared of the charge against her...but given the rampant abuses of power we've seen over the last eight years, this starts the new Republican ticket off on a pretty shaky footing.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #153 on: August 30, 2008, 05:14:44 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on August 30, 2008, 04:14:28 PM

Quote from: msduncan on August 30, 2008, 01:25:41 PM

Quote from: leo8877 on August 30, 2008, 05:14:50 AM

Actually I think he did just hand the Dems the election.

This is what I'm hoping for.   The smug overconfidence ala 2004.

I think a lot of people are looking for a balanced and informative discussion in this thread. Some of us just lurk, while others post. Most of the discussion actually lives up to its promise, and is interesting in several ways. Your posts however, are pure jackassery and remove the fun from reading the thread.

Seriously msduncan, are you completely incapable of discussing politics without being a competitive asshole about it? Nobody is giving you this kind of attitude back. Note that this is about pretty much all your posts in this thread, not just the one I quoted above.

And to stay on topic: As a non-American (Norwegian), I find the McCain's choice of Palin to be quite interesting. It's an obvious ploy to capture the female vote from Obama, but it looks like it can tip both ways. Every time I think this election has stabilized, someone does something to turn everything upside-down. What's next, I wonder...


I wasn't talking about Leo being smug.   I was talking about the left being smug, much like --as a group -- they were in 2004 when Bush won reelection.   Nothing personal to Leo.
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« Reply #154 on: August 30, 2008, 05:15:54 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on August 30, 2008, 05:08:54 PM

Quote from: TiLT
And to stay on topic: As a non-American (Norwegian), I find the McCain's choice of Palin to be quite interesting. It's an obvious ploy to capture the female vote from Obama, but it looks like it can tip both ways. Every time I think this election has stabilized, someone does something to turn everything upside-down. What's next, I wonder...

I *think* Palin will turn out to be a good choice for McCain.  She stands for all of the conservative right-wing positions you could hope for, and more importantly to me, she really walks the walk too: she actively hunts and has a son preparing to serve in Iraq.  Between McCain's military background and her own vested interested, it seems likely that the next Republican administration will take the welfare of our troops a lot more seriously than the current one.

Make no mistake: I disagree with Palin's stated views on the environment, Creationism, abortion rights, gay marriage, and others.  Nonetheless, from the small amount I've seen, I respect the way she follows through on her beliefs.

My concern about Palin is that she's been governor of Alaska for less than two years, yet she's already the subject of an active ethics investigation.  The little I know about the case makes me optimistic that she'll be fully cleared of the charge against her...but given the rampant abuses of power we've seen over the last eight years, this starts the new Republican ticket off on a pretty shaky footing.

-Autistic Angel

AA, I think you are hitting on what is most important to me as a Conservative Republiican.    Palin shores up the conservative base of his party without giving them an easy target like Romney would have.
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« Reply #155 on: August 30, 2008, 06:29:34 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on August 30, 2008, 05:08:54 PM

My concern about Palin is that she's been governor of Alaska for less than two years, yet she's already the subject of an active ethics investigation.  The little I know about the case makes me optimistic that she'll be fully cleared of the charge against her...but given the rampant abuses of power we've seen over the last eight years, this starts the new Republican ticket off on a pretty shaky footing.

I don't think that optimism is necessarily warranted - she's already had to backtrack on her claims that her administration didn't exert any pressure to fire her brother-in-law.  Why?  Well, her director of boards and commissions was recorded telling a state trooper lieutenant, among other things, ""Todd and Sarah are scratching their heads, 'Why on earth hasn't this, why is this guy still representing the department?' He's a horrible recruiting tool, you know," and "I'm telling you honestly, you know, she really likes Walt a lot, but on this issue, she feels like it's, she doesn't know why there is absolutely no action for a year on this issue. It's very, very troubling to her and the family."  She claims not to have directed this, but acknowledges that there were 24 contacts between her and her staff asking about the brother-in-law's status.

Walt is Walt Monegan, the Public Safety Commissioner who she abruptly fired; he's the one saying that she ordered him to fire her brother-in-law, and was dismissed because he couldn't/wouldn't.  (State law apparently prohibits firing the brother-in-law as he'd already been officially disciplined for his behavior.)

At the very least, the investigation and subpeona of the governor are going to be interesting distractions for her campaign schedule over the next two months.  It concludes on October 31st, and the report is due in the days before November 4th.  It's a bipartisan investigation by the state legislative council.

---

addendum:  I see now why she's being slammed by the republican state senate leader.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 07:01:43 PM by Brendan » Logged
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« Reply #156 on: August 30, 2008, 09:58:39 PM »

"Palinbots"? Interesting term.  icon_razz
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« Reply #157 on: August 31, 2008, 02:17:10 AM »

Apparently the AP wasn't exactly sold on Obama's speech.  They see lots of issues between the promises he did make and reality.  They even say that his claim of ending Middle East oil imports is unlikely.

As far as "mind-numbed robots" goes, you wouldn't be refering to the callers to this show that got an email from Obama's campaign to call it against the station because Stanley Kurtz was on, even though the station called the Obama campaign and tried to get some on as well to get both sides of the story.  When the callers talked they could only say that "Kurtz lies," with no specifics or facts to back themselves up.  Those callers wouldn't be those mind-numbed robots being talked about, following direct orders straight from the top of the campaign and using talking points?  No, those callers are too smart for that.
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« Reply #158 on: August 31, 2008, 03:42:27 AM »

Quote from: Blackjack on August 30, 2008, 09:58:39 PM

"Palinbots"? Interesting term.  icon_razz

'Palindrones' sounds cooler biggrin Tongue
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« Reply #159 on: August 31, 2008, 04:09:54 PM »

Quote from: Graham on August 31, 2008, 02:17:10 AM

As far as "mind-numbed robots" goes, you wouldn't be refering to the callers to this show that got an email from Obama's campaign to call it against the station because Stanley Kurtz was on, even though the station called the Obama campaign and tried to get some on as well to get both sides of the story.  When the callers talked they could only say that "Kurtz lies," with no specifics or facts to back themselves up.  Those callers wouldn't be those mind-numbed robots being talked about, following direct orders straight from the top of the campaign and using talking points?  No, those callers are too smart for that.

I don't know.  12-hours earlier, were any of those callers espousing "strong core beliefs" that anyone a person has ever met, no matter how tangentially, can render them unfit for public office?  If so, I suggest you find a message board where some of them congregate and ask about it directly.

While we wait for your report, perhaps you can do me a favor and define "experience" in a way that clears up all this confusion.  Alternatively, if you'd prefer to agree that the McCain campaign has really embarrassed itself by claiming experience was a critical issue, assuming a diametrically opposed position a few hours later, and pretending like nothing had changed, that's okay too.

-Autistic Angel
« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 04:16:46 PM by Autistic Angel » Logged
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