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Author Topic: Lawsuit To Remove God From Inauguration Ceremony  (Read 1617 times)
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ATB
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« on: December 31, 2008, 08:21:44 PM »

Not show how it establishes a religion, but here it is.   Wonder what Obama will say.

Thoughts?
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Moliere
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2008, 08:37:16 PM »

They are right and they will lose the lawsuit.
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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2008, 09:10:06 PM »

State needs not the crutch of religion.

 Moliere is correct though; they will lose.
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2009, 09:46:49 AM »

Pretty pathetic in my opinion.  If an atheist President-elect ever gets in then by all means I'll understand if he doesn't want to recite those lines.  But until then anybody who is not directly involved (ie everyone other than the President) should STFU.
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2009, 10:56:25 AM »

And if it were to Satan, the Easter bunny or Santa clays that their oath was being witnessed by this would make it any less valid? Is there an accountability chart where if you kill so many people in office that god punishes you?

That's where I think the athiests have it right.
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Canuck
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2009, 01:38:39 PM »

Well as long as they're not bearing witness to an evil entity then I have no problem with it.  If the next atheist President wants to bear witness to Gaia then that's just fine with me.
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the Nightbreeze
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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2009, 04:02:25 PM »

You may want to ammend your premise, Canuck.  One would not have to be an atheist to put no extra value in making his or her oath to "God" as opposed to just giving their oath.  Plenty of belief systems exsists sans "God".  Bhuddist, etc.
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2009, 11:54:21 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on January 02, 2009, 01:38:39 PM

Well as long as they're not bearing witness to an evil entity then I have no problem with it.  If the next atheist President wants to bear witness to Gaia then that's just fine with me.

But God is an evil entity, at least the OT version is.
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cheeba
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2009, 12:14:43 AM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on January 02, 2009, 11:54:21 PM

But God is an evil entity, at least the OT version is.
And you call me a troll.  Roll Eyes
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2009, 12:19:53 AM »

The oath of office is mandated by the Constitution.  The rest of the ceremony is decided by the president-elect.  Most swear on a bible, but Nixon, for example, took an affirmation rather than an oath because of his Quaker religious beliefs.  I am opposed to any commingling of church and state, but this lawsuit is frivolous and the plaintiff(s) should lose.
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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2009, 01:29:52 AM »

The pledge as specified by the Constitution (Article I, Section Cool does not include a reference to God. Presidents have chosen to include a reference to God as they say the pledge, which to me is a reasonable exercise of their own freedom of religion. As to the other aspects of the Inauguration, I feel the same way. It's not like the thing is a tent revival. It's got a couple of prayers, some speeches and (ugh) poetry. I think, somehow, the Union will survive.
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Jeff
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2009, 02:43:00 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on January 03, 2009, 12:14:43 AM

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on January 02, 2009, 11:54:21 PM

But God is an evil entity, at least the OT version is.
And you call me a troll.  Roll Eyes

How is he trolling? Have you read the OT? Yahweh (YHWH) was one bad mofo, and a very, very strong case can be made that he was/is an evil god. He ordered the Jews to slaughter entire nations, and run their swords through everything alive, including infants and livestock. He decimated entire cities at once. He kills every firstborn child in Egypt to make a point to the Pharaoh (followed by many other plagues and nasties).

2 Kings 2:23-24 : 42 children are killed for calling a prophet "baldy", by two bears at Yahweh's command.

1 Samuel 6:19 : 50,000 people are killed by Yahweh for looking in (or "at") the Ark of the Covenant.

Yahweh dictates that children will be punished for the sins of their fathers, even going into several generations later. This is most evident in YHWH's rule of Original Sin. It is said that we today are born into sin, due to the fall of Adam in the garden of Eden. He cursed the the entire planet and all of humankind for a single disobedience of one person.

I might also mention that he drowned the entire planet because he wanted a 'do-over'. Yahweh confesses that he is 'sorry he ever made man'

Yahweh ordains slavery, and even sets a an appropriate price for the value of human slaves.

Yahweh orders the slaughter of innocent animals for his appeasement, and is fond of the smell of the burning flesh of those animal sacrifices.

He curses Job, a man Yahweh himself called 'blameless'. He afflicts him with horrendous suffering, including boils in his skin, and then murders his entire family, children included, to win a bet with Satan. (edit: at best, Yahweh is complicit with Satan's afflictions to Job, and allows Satan to do what he wishes, short of killing him)

I could go on, and on, and on. Books have been written on just how nasty YHWH is/was, and many websites are out there that illustrate this.

You may not call these things evil, but I and many others do. Christians redefine these sickening acts as "holy justice" or some-such.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 02:56:28 AM by Jeff » Logged
cheeba
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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2009, 07:40:06 AM »

Quote from: Jeff on January 05, 2009, 02:43:00 AM

How is he trolling? Have you read the OT?
Just the LOLcat version.

But seriously, the OT handed out some judgement, yes, but to call him evil is just an epic failure to understand either the bible, Christianity, or the definition of evil.
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the Nightbreeze
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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2009, 02:44:55 AM »

There is no Christianity in the Old Testament.

You are valuing the Old Testament with what you come to learn in the New Testament.
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