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Author Topic: Keith Olbermann is ANGRY (Prop 8)  (Read 6005 times)
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gellar
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« on: November 12, 2008, 03:23:05 AM »

Well damn said, Keith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY

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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2008, 03:36:18 AM »

Agreed, that was extremely well said and I agree with every bit of it.  Didn't really think it came across as angry though.

It's amazing how polarizing this issue is.  Just this afternoon I found out that one of my immediate family members that has been a very active Mormon their entire life (served a 2-year mission, goes to church every Sunday, does church volunteer work twice a week, etc., etc.), is seriously considering leaving the church because of their involvement with Prop 8.   Crazy...
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Lee
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2008, 04:03:55 AM »

A Mormon coworker said his church was against Prop 8 because it would force churches to marry gay couples. Not sure how true that is, but I can kind of see that. I don't think a church should be forced to marry anyone. I do think gay couples should be able to have the same legal rights though.
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cheeba
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2008, 04:05:38 AM »

Olbermann is a moron. He's Bill O'Reilly without the trolling talent. "This vote is hhhhorrible! hhhhhhhorrible! It's about the human heart!" Drama queen moron.
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2008, 04:17:19 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on November 12, 2008, 04:05:38 AM

Olbermann is a moron. He's Bill O'Reilly without the trolling talent. "This vote is hhhhorrible! hhhhhhhorrible! It's about the human heart!" Drama queen moron.

Your personal distaste for his delivery aside, what, exactly, was wrong with the message?
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2008, 04:20:08 AM »

Quote from: Lee on November 12, 2008, 04:03:55 AM

A Mormon coworker said his church was against Prop 8 because it would force churches to marry gay couples. Not sure how true that is, but I can kind of see that. I don't think a church should be forced to marry anyone. I do think gay couples should be able to have the same legal rights though.

My understanding of it (although I could very easily be wrong) is not that churches would be required to perform the marriages, but rather that they could perform them if they so chose.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2008, 04:24:28 AM »

All this vote shows is that the government needs to get out of marriage totally, everyone can be recognized by the government as a civil union or whatever you want to call it that gives all the governmental and legal rights and priviledges that marriage today has.   If people want to have a religious marriage fine they can get that as well, and then the churches can decide who they do and do not want to marry.
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2008, 04:26:38 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on November 12, 2008, 04:24:28 AM

All this vote shows is that the government needs to get out of marriage totally, everyone can be recognized by the government as a civil union or whatever you want to call it that gives all the governmental and legal rights and privileges that marriage today has.   If people want to have a religious marriage fine they can get that as well, and then the churches can decide who they do and do not want to marry.

Never thought I'd say this, but I completely, 100% agree with you.  smile
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Lee
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2008, 04:39:05 AM »

Quote from: Gratch on November 12, 2008, 04:26:38 AM

Quote from: brettmcd on November 12, 2008, 04:24:28 AM

All this vote shows is that the government needs to get out of marriage totally, everyone can be recognized by the government as a civil union or whatever you want to call it that gives all the governmental and legal rights and privileges that marriage today has.   If people want to have a religious marriage fine they can get that as well, and then the churches can decide who they do and do not want to marry.

Never thought I'd say this, but I completely, 100% agree with you.  smile

Me too, I just didn't have the balls to say it. Tongue
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2008, 04:51:09 AM »

are we sure that's not Ben Affleck?
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leo8877
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2008, 06:02:52 AM »

Prop 8 has nothing to do with churches being required to marry anyone.  It was a prop that amended the CA constitution to REMOVE the rights of same sex couples to legally marry.  I have no idea how this passed here and I am also angry that it did.  The pro-prop 8 ads were so retarded, just fear mongering.  They tried to also say that if prop 8 failed then kids would be taught in school about same-sex marriage, when again that had nothing to do with it.  Same-sex marriage had been legal here anyway and it did absolutely nothing to destroy the idea of marriage (which "traditional" marriages have already made a joke of).  I was proud to be an American the day after election day, but embarrassed to be associated as a Californian when this prop passed. 
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2008, 11:51:58 AM »

That was quite good.  KO actually looked like he was going to break down a couple of times there.  Although I got to say, I really do prefer the 'angry' Keith Olberman.
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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2008, 12:04:15 PM »

Now THIS is ANGRY! I love it smile
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Blackadar
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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2008, 12:26:06 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on November 12, 2008, 04:05:38 AM

Olbermann is a moron. He's Bill O'Reilly without the trolling talent. "This vote is hhhhorrible! hhhhhhhorrible! It's about the human heart!" Drama queen moron.

You think Bill O'Reilly has talent??!?!?!
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cheeba
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2008, 03:43:52 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 12, 2008, 12:26:06 PM

You think Bill O'Reilly has talent??!?!?!
He's a very talented troll. Do you disagree?

Quote from: Gratch on November 12, 2008, 04:17:19 AM

Your personal distaste for his delivery aside, what, exactly, was wrong with the message?
Maybe 0.8% of those who voted against Prop 8 actually watch Olbermann. This is just his pandering to his viewers, who no doubt voted against Prop 8 in large numbers. I agree with gay marriage, and would love a plan like what brettmcd talked about, getting God out of marriage and making it a civil union. But this kind of preachy crap does no one any good, and in my view probably serves to solidify the right even more against those who would dare tell them how to live.

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Scuzz
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2008, 04:24:34 PM »

The interesting thing about Prop 8 is that in polling it turned out that the voting broke down in such a manner that while Obama was attracting more black voters to the polls, most of the black voters (75-80%) voted for Prop 8.

The gay movement has alienated the black vote by comparing the civil rights movement to the gay rights movement. I know even my daughter hit me with that arguement (no, she's not gay).

I also think the idea that a "right" was taken away is a grand legal exaggeration. There is no "right" to marriage.

Oh yea, Kieth Olbermann has gone from being interesting and funny to being a real tool.
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wonderpug
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2008, 04:30:29 PM »

Quote from: Scuzz on November 12, 2008, 04:24:34 PM

I also think the idea that a "right" was taken away is a grand legal exaggeration. There is no "right" to marriage.

Didn't a US Supreme Court trial outright state that marriage was a part of the inalienable right for the pursuit of happiness?
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Brendan
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2008, 04:33:11 PM »

Quote from: Scuzz on November 12, 2008, 04:24:34 PM

The interesting thing about Prop 8 is that in polling it turned out that the voting broke down in such a manner that while Obama was attracting more black voters to the polls, most of the black voters (75-80%) voted for Prop 8.

The Obama surge was not the causal factor in Prop 8 passing.

Quote
At the end of the day, Prop 8's passage was more a generational matter than a racial one. If nobody over the age of 65 had voted, Prop 8 would have failed by a point or two. It appears that the generational splits may be larger within minority communities than among whites, although the data on this is sketchy.
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Lee
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« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2008, 04:36:25 PM »

Quote from: Scuzz on November 12, 2008, 04:24:34 PM

The gay movement has alienated the black vote by comparing the civil rights movement to the gay rights movement. I know even my daughter hit me with that arguement (no, she's not gay).

I don't think that is true at all. Aren't black people very religious as a group? Church going conservative Christians are the ones who seem to be very much against gay marriage.
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Brendan
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« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2008, 04:37:12 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on November 12, 2008, 04:30:29 PM

Quote from: Scuzz on November 12, 2008, 04:24:34 PM

I also think the idea that a "right" was taken away is a grand legal exaggeration. There is no "right" to marriage.

Didn't a US Supreme Court trial outright state that marriage was a part of the inalienable right for the pursuit of happiness?

Loving v. Virginia:

"The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men."
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wonderpug
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« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2008, 04:38:46 PM »

That'd be the one.
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Brendan
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2008, 04:40:03 PM »

Quote from: Lee on November 12, 2008, 04:39:05 AM

Quote from: Gratch on November 12, 2008, 04:26:38 AM

Quote from: brettmcd on November 12, 2008, 04:24:28 AM

All this vote shows is that the government needs to get out of marriage totally, everyone can be recognized by the government as a civil union or whatever you want to call it that gives all the governmental and legal rights and privileges that marriage today has.   If people want to have a religious marriage fine they can get that as well, and then the churches can decide who they do and do not want to marry.

Never thought I'd say this, but I completely, 100% agree with you.  smile

Me too, I just didn't have the balls to say it. Tongue

Me three, although I relish the opportunity to find common cause with a frequent foe.  Here's to you, brettmcd!

Separating the religious conduct from the civil benefits is the most expedient way out of this stupidity.
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cheeba
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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2008, 05:20:37 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on November 12, 2008, 04:33:11 PM

Quote from: Scuzz on November 12, 2008, 04:24:34 PM

The interesting thing about Prop 8 is that in polling it turned out that the voting broke down in such a manner that while Obama was attracting more black voters to the polls, most of the black voters (75-80%) voted for Prop 8.

The Obama surge was not the causal factor in Prop 8 passing.

Quote
At the end of the day, Prop 8's passage was more a generational matter than a racial one. If nobody over the age of 65 had voted, Prop 8 would have failed by a point or two. It appears that the generational splits may be larger within minority communities than among whites, although the data on this is sketchy.
I don't know wtf Nate is doing there. He is saying that Prop 8 passed not because of the Obama surge, and to prove this he cites first-time voters. First-time voters are only a portion of the Obama surge. He's not arguing that black and latino voters are not to blame, he's arguing that new black and latino voters are not to blame. It still holds true that blacks came out to vote more in this election than in other elections, and it still holds true that blacks voted resoundingly against gay marriage. The article he cited still has valid statistics:
Quote
Last week, however, 10 percent of voters were African American while 18 percent were Latino, and applying exit poll data to that extra turnout reveals that the pro-Obama surge among those two groups gave Proposition 8 an extra 500,000-plus votes, slightly more than the measure's margin of victory.
Of course, Nate is right in pointing out that there's a large generational difference here too. You could easily put the blame on old people.

But either way you cut it, 70% of blacks voting against gay marriage is a cultural problem that proponents of gay marriage will have to seriously address.
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2008, 05:47:03 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on November 12, 2008, 04:40:03 PM

Quote from: Lee on November 12, 2008, 04:39:05 AM

Quote from: Gratch on November 12, 2008, 04:26:38 AM

Quote from: brettmcd on November 12, 2008, 04:24:28 AM

All this vote shows is that the government needs to get out of marriage totally, everyone can be recognized by the government as a civil union or whatever you want to call it that gives all the governmental and legal rights and privileges that marriage today has.   If people want to have a religious marriage fine they can get that as well, and then the churches can decide who they do and do not want to marry.

Never thought I'd say this, but I completely, 100% agree with you.  smile

Me too, I just didn't have the balls to say it. Tongue

Me three, although I relish the opportunity to find common cause with a frequent foe.  Here's to you, brettmcd!

Separating the religious conduct from the civil benefits is the most expedient way out of this stupidity.

I agree as well.  My wife and I did not have a religious marriage.  We were married by an officiant who was empowered by law to perform a legally-binding private ceremony.  Religion has nothing to do with my legal union with my wife, and I see no reason why same-sex couples should be denied that same freedom. 
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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2008, 05:54:38 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on November 12, 2008, 04:37:12 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on November 12, 2008, 04:30:29 PM

Quote from: Scuzz on November 12, 2008, 04:24:34 PM

I also think the idea that a "right" was taken away is a grand legal exaggeration. There is no "right" to marriage.

Didn't a US Supreme Court trial outright state that marriage was a part of the inalienable right for the pursuit of happiness?

Loving v. Virginia:

"The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men."

"free men" being the important line  paranoid
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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2008, 06:02:21 PM »

Why is "free men" important to you in this context?
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Scuzz
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2008, 06:47:12 PM »

No reason, just a little immature idiotic attempt at humour........... thumbsdown
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« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2008, 07:50:45 PM »

Amen, Keith.
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Scuzz
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« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2008, 10:25:30 PM »

Question....I understand Florida voted down gay marriage also, why is the wrath of the great unwashed only on California? Did Kieth only blow a fuse over California? I didn't watch the video because I just can't stomache Kieth anymore.






ps....I was being sarcastic with the "great unwashed" thing.
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leo8877
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« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2008, 11:21:57 PM »

Maybe because people expect Californians to show some decency as a populace.
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« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2008, 11:31:54 PM »

That /is/ the Mueslix state, remember.

Nuts, fruits and flakes....
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Scuzz
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« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2008, 11:34:47 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on November 12, 2008, 11:21:57 PM

Maybe because people expect Californians to show some decency as a populace.

Geez, your not from California are you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2008, 11:45:02 PM »

I think it's more likely that it had already been found to be a constitutional right in California, and thousands of couples had been married.
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« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2008, 12:11:45 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on November 12, 2008, 04:24:28 AM

All this vote shows is that the government needs to get out of marriage totally, everyone can be recognized by the government as a civil union or whatever you want to call it that gives all the governmental and legal rights and priviledges that marriage today has.   If people want to have a religious marriage fine they can get that as well, and then the churches can decide who they do and do not want to marry.

I agree.  Prop 8 was pitched as protecting the sacredness of marriage.  The gubmint has no business policing the sacredness of anything.
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« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2008, 03:31:51 AM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 12, 2008, 12:26:06 PM

Quote from: cheeba on November 12, 2008, 04:05:38 AM

Olbermann is a moron. He's Bill O'Reilly without the trolling talent. "This vote is hhhhorrible! hhhhhhhorrible! It's about the human heart!" Drama queen moron.

You think Bill O'Reilly has talent??!?!?!

For blathering on like an incessant blow hard you have to admit he is quite gifted.
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« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2008, 03:54:16 AM »

I suppose the gays will have to continue with the time honored tradition of waiting until the parents are dead before coming out.
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« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2008, 05:39:04 AM »

I have a hetero man-crush on Keith Olberman.   The Weghted Companion Cube will never threaten to stab you.

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« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2008, 04:36:05 PM »

Quote from: SuperHiro on November 13, 2008, 03:54:16 AM

I suppose the gays will have to continue with the time honored tradition of waiting until the parents are dead before coming out.


That's a family thing. I know there are some like that but in the circles I run in it is pretty well known (not guessed, they are out) who is gay and who isn't. I don't think making something legal would change that. In some families there would still be the stigma.

As for Olbermann, I used to really enjoy watching his show. Unlike the right wing wackos he seemed to be able to discuss the days events without going over the edge. However the election changed that. He is as wacko left as Limbsugh is wacko right. They both look for the tiniest thing and then blow it way up out of proportion. A left leaning site I often look at had people who hate Olbermann, not for the way he treats Bush of course, but for the way he treated Hillary.

Now that the election is over it will be interesting to see if Olbermann will be able to be critical of an Obama administration. I doubt it.

As for O'Reilly, he must have some talent although I have never seen it. Limbaugh has his schtick and plays to his audience. Hannity, is an idiot.
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« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2008, 05:48:27 PM »

Quote from: Scuzz on November 12, 2008, 10:25:30 PM

Question....I understand Florida voted down gay marriage also, why is the wrath of the great unwashed only on California? Did Kieth only blow a fuse over California? I didn't watch the video because I just can't stomache Kieth anymore.






ps....I was being sarcastic with the "great unwashed" thing.

In Florida there was not a vote against gay marriage as there as nothing in there about that and in fact was a Marriage Protection Amendment.  While it does prohibit same-sex marriages it also prohibits heterosexual domestic partnerships as being recognized as a legal union. 

Quite honestly this type of thing is a perfect example of where church and state should be clearly separated, since I feel everyone has a right to have a legal civil union and the benefits that comes from that no matter what their lifestyle choice is.
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« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2008, 06:39:10 PM »

If your right the Florida vote goes way beyond the California vote in it's outlawing of domestic partnerships.........
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