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Author Topic: [USA] SHUTDOWN SHUTDOWN!!!!!! Sequel is in the works, slated for Q1 2014 release  (Read 10638 times)
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« Reply #240 on: October 11, 2013, 03:14:27 AM »

So this thread is dedicated to brettmcd's staunch defence of a group of people he doesn't support or vote for? Or is it dedicated to tearing down the other people which he dislikes more?

I'm getting confused here - are we currently talking about people who are supposedly "trying to keep their jobs as elected officials" while 800,000 people are currently out of work?

Makes perfect sense to assume the worst of everyone allatime ever.
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« Reply #241 on: October 11, 2013, 03:38:00 AM »

I thought we were just supposed to argue.  stirthepot
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« Reply #242 on: October 11, 2013, 03:53:09 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on October 11, 2013, 02:16:01 AM

Well at least we now know what you think of every single republican.   Actually we knew that before, this just reinforces it.

Okay, if we're going to play that game, I should've also pointed out that the representation of what I was saying about Republicans was wrong. However, I didn't really feel the need to do that as most of this conversation has been about Democrats and democratic motivations.

There are quite a few Republicans who have pledged to do brave things during this debate. Peter King of New York, for example. So far, most of this has only been talk. These Republicans who have said they would vote for a clean CR haven't crossed over to vote with Democrats on procedural votes they could force a vote on a clean CR. But they deserve credit for standing up to the tea party. I hope they get a chance to vote on a clean CR.

I don't consider John Boehner to be a devil in any of this, either. I feel sorry for the speaker. This is clearly not how he hoped he speakership would go. He doesn't have any way to control the tea party, and it seems to be ruining his tenure in the job. I don't believe he will allow us to go through the debt ceiling. I think he is stronger than that. At least, I hope so.
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« Reply #243 on: October 11, 2013, 04:00:05 AM »

Quote from: Ironrod on October 11, 2013, 03:38:00 AM

I thought we were just supposed to argue.  stirthepot

no we're not!

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« Reply #244 on: October 11, 2013, 04:30:19 AM »

Hey brettmcd, you won't win any arguments by picking and choosing which ones to reply to. Did my latest reply to your conspiracy theories make too much sense for you? Did you realize that you were walking on thin ice?
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« Reply #245 on: October 11, 2013, 10:34:14 AM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on October 11, 2013, 03:53:09 AM

I don't consider John Boehner to be a devil in any of this, either. I feel sorry for the speaker. This is clearly not how he hoped he speakership would go. He doesn't have any way to control the tea party, and it seems to be ruining his tenure in the job.


If this were October 2011, I'd be agreeing with you.  I firmly believe that if you or I had the opportunity to speak to John Boehner one-on-one, we would find him to be a solemn and intelligent man who is acutely aware of the havoc his party is wreaking upon the party and extremely frustrated by his ability to stop it.

But it's 2013 now.  Boehner sought and won reelection as Speaker of the House with a full understanding of what his job would entail.  I still agree with you that he is no devil, but at the same time, there's is precious little evidence that he's doing much to improve the situation.  How much pity does a man deserve when he willingly throws himself back to the crucible and stubbornly refuses to help notch down the heat?

Boehner has it within his power to end this shutdown today by allowing a clean CR to come to the floor for a vote.  He could even give a speech about no longer standing idly by while a small minority of gerrymandered lunatics is allowed to hobble the global economy, and it would make him a goddamn national hero.  Would it also end his tenure as Speaker?  Maybe.  I suspect a lot of Republicans are feeling increasingly desperate for someone to stand up and restore sanity to their party, so he might fare better than we think.

But even if he lost his position, it isn't like he's been getting much use out of it.

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« Reply #246 on: October 11, 2013, 04:34:23 PM »

So the entire US political system is being held up by Boehner? Perhaps if Bush were involved then the pressure would (eventually) drop.
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« Reply #247 on: October 11, 2013, 04:38:10 PM »

Obama just needs to smack Mister Boehner around a bit to get stuff working right again.
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« Reply #248 on: October 11, 2013, 05:43:53 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 11, 2013, 04:38:10 PM

Obama just needs to smack Mister Boehner around a bit to get stuff working right again.

should have gone with rub
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« Reply #249 on: October 11, 2013, 06:08:19 PM »

Quote from: Purge on October 11, 2013, 04:34:23 PM

So the entire US political system is being held up by Boehner?


Short answer: yes.

Long answer: In the United States House of Representatives, the Speaker decides the agenda.  There are some procedural mechanisms the caucuses can use to conduct a formal vote without the Speaker's say-so (a discharge petition, for example), but as a general rule, if the Speaker of the House chooses not to bring a bill up for a vote, it doesn't get a vote.

The House requires 217 affirmative votes to pass a bill.  The 200 Democratic representatives are, by all accounts, ready to vote unanimously for a clean CR.  Add in the two-dozen House Republicans who have publicly claimed they're willing to join them, and that's a successful bill.  You can find a list of the 24 Republicans right here, complete with links to each of their public declarations.

Are those Republicans lying to make themselves appear more moderate and reasonable than they actually are?  Maybe, but we don't know because Speaker Boehner won't allow the vote.  He's the logjam that ensures no one in his caucus ever has to own up to their promises.


Finally, you'll see people refer to the "Hastert Rule," which holds that the Speaker will never bring a bill up for a vote unless a majority of the dominant party is expected to support it.  As Canuck has pointed out, though, this is a purely informal practice employed by House Speakers to pretend they have no discretion in how they set the agenda.  That included Democrat Nancy Pelosi during her tenure as Speaker, by the way -- an example of something that both sides *actually* do.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #250 on: October 11, 2013, 06:24:35 PM »

Quote from: msduncan on October 11, 2013, 12:25:34 AM

Quote from: Fireball1244 on October 10, 2013, 08:59:48 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on October 10, 2013, 08:39:09 PM

What a politician does that is best for them getting reelected is many times NOT what is best for the country, its not the same for the most part at a regular job.


Many Democrats have cast votes in the last two weeks that will be difficult to explain to voters, but which were the right thing to do. Not every member of Congress cravenly seeks reelection over all else.

Yes. Yes.   Democrats are benevolent angels that only cast votes in the best interest of the 'Murican people.    Republicans are evil greedy devils that cast votes in their own selfish personal interests.

pssst....congress consists of both the house and the senate.  thought you might have forgotten in the heat of the moment.   icon_wink
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« Reply #251 on: October 11, 2013, 10:45:51 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on October 11, 2013, 01:08:39 AM

Quote from: msduncan on October 11, 2013, 12:25:34 AM

Quote from: Fireball1244 on October 10, 2013, 08:59:48 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on October 10, 2013, 08:39:09 PM

What a politician does that is best for them getting reelected is many times NOT what is best for the country, its not the same for the most part at a regular job.


Many Democrats have cast votes in the last two weeks that will be difficult to explain to voters, but which were the right thing to do. Not every member of Congress cravenly seeks reelection over all else.

Yes. Yes.   Democrats are benevolent angels that only cast votes in the best interest of the 'Murican people.

I never said anything so sweeping about all Democrats. I never even implied it. If you can't respond to what I actually say, that's your problem.
don't take it personally. msduncan is just upset because even the Gallup polls are starting to tell him things he doesn't want to hear.
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« Reply #252 on: October 14, 2013, 12:16:42 PM »

Something to keep in mind as we head into a new week of Equal Blame false equivalencies:

This weekend, senate Republicans filibustered a clean CR bill to prevent it from coming up for a vote.  For clarity, that means the Democratic majority wanted to end the government shutdown right now and had the votes to pass that bill in the senate, but the Republicans blocked anyone from voting at all.

Then Republican Senator Suzanne Collins from Maine formally proposed a "moderate compromise."  If Democrats were willing to lock in Sequestration spending for another six months and delay the ACA's medical device tax for two years, Republicans would stop sabotaging the economy by raising the Debt Ceiling...for three whole months.

Quote from: hepcat on October 05, 2013, 12:01:01 AM

Remember a little thing called sequestration? 


Yes.  In July of this year, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that if Sequestration were reversed by August, it would result in an additional 900,000 jobs being added to the economy by the end of 2014.  That's not the result of doing anything new, mind you -- that's simply undoing the Sequester cuts forced upon the country by the Republicans the last time they decided to take the economy hostage by threatening to breach the Debt Ceiling. 

So that's "compromise."  Democrats agree to Republican demands, and Republicans agree to wait three months before making additional demands.

And the best part?  Speaker John Boehner said that even if this deal did pass the senate -- which it didn't -- the House wouldn't even bring it to the floor for a vote because it wouldn't give Republicans enough.

Quote from: The Washington Post
Boehner’s closest friends in the Senate, including Graham and Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.), pleaded with him Friday to modify his legislation along the lines of what they were trying to broker across the Capitol. The speaker told them Saturday that the Collins plan would face opposition from too many Republicans for him to put it on the floor, Chambliss said.

“We don’t support it,” House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) told reporters, saying that the reasons for opposition were “too many to go into.”


By the way, the 2% tax on medical devices is one of the ways in which the ACA pays for itself and reduces the deficit. 

Mark my words: if Republicans ever do manage to push that through, watch for them to *immediately* start screaming about how "ObamaCare will cost BILLIONS MORE than they originally promised!!1! mad icon_evil mad "

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #253 on: October 14, 2013, 05:56:44 PM »

here's an idea:  hold a protest in front of the White House.  Don't forget the flags:



source, found from another article.
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« Reply #254 on: October 14, 2013, 06:06:46 PM »

It's funny to me that I can immediately tell which side they are protesting for without reading any banners, but just by the flags they are holding up.
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« Reply #255 on: October 14, 2013, 06:59:30 PM »

After reading the article associated with the protest, I was surprised to discover that some folks still believe Obama is a Muslim.   I was surprised because I naturally assumed anyone that stupid would have died long ago doing even the simplest of household chores.
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« Reply #256 on: October 14, 2013, 07:08:59 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on October 14, 2013, 06:59:30 PM

After reading the article associated with the protest, I was surprised to discover that some folks still believe Obama is a Muslim.   I was surprised because I naturally assumed anyone that stupid would have died long ago doing even the simplest of household chores.

I until fairly recently worked with people that believe that. Frustrating experience and why I almost never talk politics anymore. I might be late to realizing this, but it only really just dawned on me that people will believe anything they read on the internet. It doesn't matter how intelligent, rich, etc they are, if they see it on the internet, it's true, especially if it supports what they want to believe. I can't even get on Facebook anymore because of it. Some really nice people, but when it comes to politics, incredibly hateful people.
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« Reply #257 on: October 14, 2013, 07:22:40 PM »

To be fair, a friend of a friend facebook friended me a while ago, and he's the extremist liberal version of what you speak about.  Every lie about a republican politician or platform is readily believed and regurgitated (with the appropriate vitriol) as soon as he hears/reads/thinks it.  So it's not just a repub or even conservative problem...it's just a moron issue.
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« Reply #258 on: October 14, 2013, 07:46:19 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on October 14, 2013, 07:22:40 PM

To be fair, a friend of a friend facebook friended me a while ago, and he's the extremist liberal version of what you speak about.  Every lie about a republican politician or platform is readily believed and regurgitated (with the appropriate vitriol) as soon as he hears/reads/thinks it.  So it's not just a repub or even conservative problem...it's just a moron issue.
We talked about this - stop spreading lies about me.
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« Reply #259 on: October 14, 2013, 08:07:39 PM »

The only facebook friend YOU have is an imaginary one you call "Mr. Huggable"...and even HE has attempted to defriend you on no less than 8 desperate occasions.

(I kid, I kid...I'd totally friend you.  If only to find out where you keep your good jewelry in the photos section)
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« Reply #260 on: October 14, 2013, 10:09:01 PM »

You know I can't wear jewelry - I keep turning down that pearl necklace you keep offering.

So, uh, any hard deadlines with regards to this "work stoppage"?
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« Reply #261 on: October 14, 2013, 10:22:42 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on October 14, 2013, 08:07:39 PM

The only facebook friend YOU have is an imaginary one you call "Mr. Huggable"...and even HE has attempted to defriend you on no less than 8 desperate occasions.

(I kid, I kid...I'd totally friend you.  If only to find out where you keep your good jewelry in the photos section)

you don't want to see his jewelry pics...
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« Reply #262 on: October 14, 2013, 10:24:21 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on October 14, 2013, 06:59:30 PM

After reading the article associated with the protest, I was surprised to discover that some folks still believe Obama is a Muslim.   I was surprised because I naturally assumed anyone that stupid would have died long ago doing even the simplest of household chores.

I wouldn't mind them living in their own reality if it didn't keep bleeding into our universe. Seal the rift!
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« Reply #263 on: October 14, 2013, 10:24:23 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on October 14, 2013, 06:59:30 PM

After reading the article associated with the protest, I was surprised to discover that some folks still believe Obama is a Muslim.   I was surprised because I naturally assumed anyone that stupid would have died long ago doing even the simplest of household chores.

well he never produced a publicly accepted birth certificate slywink
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« Reply #264 on: October 15, 2013, 10:46:57 PM »

figured msduncan would appreciate this:

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« Reply #265 on: October 16, 2013, 02:00:00 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 14, 2013, 05:56:44 PM

here's an idea:  hold a protest in front of the White House.  Don't forget the flags:



source, found from another article.

I hope that chick's forehead is photo shopped. The one on the bottom left with the backpack. Because if not I think she may be part Klingon.
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« Reply #266 on: October 16, 2013, 02:02:47 AM »

heh.  if you look closely, the guy in front of her wearing a dark blue cap is wearing a white coat that is blending in with her pasty white skin.
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« Reply #267 on: October 16, 2013, 04:19:02 AM »

Maybe the Canadians are behind this somehow...
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« Reply #268 on: October 16, 2013, 12:34:32 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 16, 2013, 02:02:47 AM

heh.  if you look closely, the guy in front of her wearing a dark blue cap is wearing a white coat that is blending in with her pasty white skin.

Um, if that blue cap guy belongs to the white coat body and hands then he has a seriously elongated neck. I think there is a short senior citizen lady with white hair (you can see it poking out of the forehead of the girl with backpack) wearing a white sweater holding her hand up.
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« Reply #269 on: October 16, 2013, 02:12:56 PM »

Quote from: raydude on October 16, 2013, 12:34:32 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on October 16, 2013, 02:02:47 AM

heh.  if you look closely, the guy in front of her wearing a dark blue cap is wearing a white coat that is blending in with her pasty white skin.

Um, if that blue cap guy belongs to the white coat body and hands then he has a seriously elongated neck. I think there is a short senior citizen lady with white hair (you can see it poking out of the forehead of the girl with backpack) wearing a white sweater holding her hand up.

good point.  of course it could be Mekaneck.
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« Reply #270 on: October 16, 2013, 06:41:59 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 16, 2013, 02:12:56 PM

Quote from: raydude on October 16, 2013, 12:34:32 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on October 16, 2013, 02:02:47 AM

heh.  if you look closely, the guy in front of her wearing a dark blue cap is wearing a white coat that is blending in with her pasty white skin.

Um, if that blue cap guy belongs to the white coat body and hands then he has a seriously elongated neck. I think there is a short senior citizen lady with white hair (you can see it poking out of the forehead of the girl with backpack) wearing a white sweater holding her hand up.

good point.  of course it could be Mekaneck.

Bravo, Sir, for the He-Man reference.

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« Reply #271 on: October 16, 2013, 07:54:19 PM »

Quote from: raydude on October 16, 2013, 12:34:32 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on October 16, 2013, 02:02:47 AM

heh.  if you look closely, the guy in front of her wearing a dark blue cap is wearing a white coat that is blending in with her pasty white skin.

Um, if that blue cap guy belongs to the white coat body and hands then he has a seriously elongated neck. I think there is a short senior citizen lady with white hair (you can see it poking out of the forehead of the girl with backpack) wearing a white sweater holding her hand up.

This.
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« Reply #272 on: October 16, 2013, 11:38:39 PM »

so, see you all in January?
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« Reply #273 on: October 16, 2013, 11:49:48 PM »

Is it going to be a re-run?
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« Reply #274 on: October 17, 2013, 12:23:53 AM »

I'd predict the shitty remake more than the re-run...
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« Reply #275 on: October 17, 2013, 01:14:11 AM »

So is it fair to say that Boehner went soft on his stances?
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« Reply #276 on: October 17, 2013, 01:18:45 AM »

Boehner went limp when faced with the Big O.
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« Reply #277 on: October 17, 2013, 02:33:10 AM »

Quote from: kratz on October 17, 2013, 12:23:53 AM

I'd predict the shitty remake more than the re-run...

Yup.

While I'm glad I can finally get back to work tomorrow, I know that every agency is going to paralyzed knowing that we're going to go through the same clusterfuck again in 3 months.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #278 on: October 17, 2013, 03:19:24 AM »

So what was the coles notes on what has been agreed to? Is Obama-care passed?
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« Reply #279 on: October 17, 2013, 03:43:36 AM »

Quote from: Purge on October 17, 2013, 03:19:24 AM

So what was the coles notes on what has been agreed to? Is Obama-care passed?

Yep, nothing major changed. Republicans didn't get any of their demands. The did tack on a bunch of spending at the same time that was agreed to because they didn't have any more time to debate it.
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