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Author Topic: [USA] SHUTDOWN SHUTDOWN!!!!!! Sequel is in the works, slated for Q1 2014 release  (Read 7440 times)
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #160 on: October 04, 2013, 08:35:18 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on October 04, 2013, 06:52:49 PM

Go to hell AA, I have said more then once they shouldn't be doing this.   


That's true.  You've also said more than once that they're ultimately still fighting the good fight against "ObamaCare," which you believe will explode the debt and ruin the economy in some yet-unspecified way, and that Democrats should concede victory so "everyone" wins.  

So there's that.


Quote from: brettmcd on October 04, 2013, 06:52:49 PM

Its becoming more and more obvious to me that you and your ilk don't care if the world economy implodes over the debt ceiling not being raised, its far far more important to stand up to the evil republicans and win politically.   To hell with anything else.   Its all a political game for BOTH sides now.


If I were interested in scoring political points against Conservatives, brettmcd, I'd be rooting for this shutdown to continue indefinitely.  Politics are often muddy and difficult to explain to people who aren't paying rapt attention to every twist and turn, but here, Republicans have climbed onto an international stage to blast emphatic contempt towards millions of Americans.  "We're intentionally hobbling the economy and putting 800,000 out of work to prevent ObamaCare from theoretically hurting the economy and maybe putting people out of work somehow!"  It couldn't possibly be more clear which ideology is solely responsible for this debacle, and a purely political animal would be thrilled to see the GOP feeding itself so much electoral hemlock.

But again: we aren't engaging in theorycraft here.  This isn't a debate about adding a new houserule to Settlers of Catan.  Real people are really being hurt by this sociopathic stunt.  People like Gratch and pr0ner have lives to live and families to support, as do millions of other people who do some form of business with the federal government.  Not just multinational corporations, either -- we're talking down to to restaurants and lunch carts, grocery stores and movie theaters that serve federal employees every day.

Republicans started this shutdown.  It only continues because they've decided it should.  

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« Reply #161 on: October 04, 2013, 09:29:48 PM »

A privately run park gets shut down by the National Park Service?

Quote
National Park Officials closed down the educational Claude Moore Colonial Farm near the CIA in McLean, Va., even though the federal government doesn't fund or staff the park popular with children and schools. Just because the privately-operated park is on Park Service land, making the federal government simply its landlord, the agency decided to close it.
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A Claude Moore Colonial Farm official said that the privately-funded staff is on the job Wednesday, but barred from letting anybody visit the historically accurate buildings or animals. Anna Eberly, the managing director, sent out an email decrying the decision and rude National Park Service staff handling the closure.

Pointing to Park Service claims that parks have to be closed because the agency can’t afford staff during the government closure, Eberly wrote: “What utter crap. We have operated the Farm successfully for 32 years after the NPS cut the Farm from its budget in 1980 and are fully staffed and prepared to open today. But there are barricades at the Pavilions and entrance to the Farm. And if you were to park on the grass and visit on your own, you run the risk of being arrested. Of course, that will cost the NPS staff salaries to police the Farm against intruders while leaving it open will cost them nothing.”

I'm sure it's all a big misunderstanding and not political grandstanding. Right?
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« Reply #162 on: October 04, 2013, 10:09:15 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on October 04, 2013, 09:29:48 PM

A privately run park gets shut down by the National Park Service?

Quote
National Park Officials closed down the educational Claude Moore Colonial Farm near the CIA in McLean, Va., even though the federal government doesn't fund or staff the park popular with children and schools. Just because the privately-operated park is on Park Service land, making the federal government simply its landlord, the agency decided to close it.
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A Claude Moore Colonial Farm official said that the privately-funded staff is on the job Wednesday, but barred from letting anybody visit the historically accurate buildings or animals. Anna Eberly, the managing director, sent out an email decrying the decision and rude National Park Service staff handling the closure.

Pointing to Park Service claims that parks have to be closed because the agency can’t afford staff during the government closure, Eberly wrote: “What utter crap. We have operated the Farm successfully for 32 years after the NPS cut the Farm from its budget in 1980 and are fully staffed and prepared to open today. But there are barricades at the Pavilions and entrance to the Farm. And if you were to park on the grass and visit on your own, you run the risk of being arrested. Of course, that will cost the NPS staff salaries to police the Farm against intruders while leaving it open will cost them nothing.”

I'm sure it's all a big misunderstanding and not political grandstanding. Right?

The Washington Examiner is not a reputable publication. I don't trust the facts presented here are true. Paul Bedard is particularly untrustworthy and right-wing. You might as well post a link to Fox News or World Net Daily.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #163 on: October 04, 2013, 10:16:19 PM »

So please fireball let us know what news sources are allowed to be posted here?    Outside of the obviously allowed Huffington Post and MSDNC of course.
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« Reply #164 on: October 04, 2013, 10:22:10 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on October 04, 2013, 10:16:19 PM

So please fireball let us know what news sources are allowed to be posted here?    Outside of the obviously allowed Huffington Post and MSDNC of course.

I wouldn't consider Huffington Post credible. MSNBC doesn't really post hard news, they're just commentary.
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« Reply #165 on: October 04, 2013, 10:48:23 PM »

Who cares about the parks? Sure some of it is silly, little kids field trips were canceled, etc, but it's one of the least important aspects of this whole thing. The republicans are just trying to look for anything they can use to make themselves looks better than the democrats are in this.

This is a non-issue that is insulting to the people who are losing pay or having their lives put into disarray because of the shutdown. This is causing serious problems for a lot of people, this is what should be addressed. This should be generating outrage.

That people buy into this crap helps me understand why are government is such a mess. If your outrage is because of canceled field trips or political showmanship, you may want to reconsider your involvement in politics.
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« Reply #166 on: October 04, 2013, 10:55:00 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on October 04, 2013, 10:09:15 PM

The Washington Examiner is not a reputable publication. I don't trust the facts presented here are true. Paul Bedard is particularly untrustworthy and right-wing. You might as well post a link to Fox News or World Net Daily.

Which facts are being disputed? That it was forcibly closed by the Park Service? That's it's privately funded and staffed?

How about these reputable publications?

Claude Moore Colonial Farm website

Washington Times

Quote
The Claude Moore Colonial Farm in McLean, Virginia has also been closed down because of its location on federally owned property. A notice on the farm’s website states, “In previous budget dramas, the Farm has always been exempted since the NPS provides no staff or resources to operate the Farm.” Managing Director Anna Eberly wrote, “We have operated the Farm successfully for 32 years after the NPS cut the Farm from its budget in 1980 and are fully staffed and prepared to open today. But there are barricades at the Pavilions and entrance to the Farm.”

Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich tweeted pictures showing NPS barricades closing off the bus turn-around near Mount Vernon, even though that site is privately owned and funded and is open during the shutdown. Blogger Stephen Gutowski of College Politico tweeted that Mount Vernon officials confirmed that the NPS shut down their parking lots Tuesday morning which are co-owned by Mount Vernon and the NPS. The NPS eventually reopened those lots after complaints from Mount Vernon officials.

Privately operated businesses on federal lands outside of the Washington area are also being affected. Warren Meyer, an Arizona businessman who runs private campgrounds on federal land, posted a letter to his congressman and senators on his blog complaining that he has been ordered to shut down despite the fact that he is a tenant of the federal government and receives no funds from them.
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« Reply #167 on: October 04, 2013, 11:00:01 PM »

Quote from: Lee on October 04, 2013, 10:48:23 PM

Who cares about the parks? Sure some of it is silly, little kids field trips were canceled, etc, but it's one of the least important aspects of this whole thing. The republicans are just trying to look for anything they can use to make themselves looks better than the democrats are in this.

This is a non-issue that is insulting to the people who are losing pay or having their lives put into disarray because of the shutdown. This is causing serious problems for a lot of people, this is what should be addressed. This should be generating outrage.

That people buy into this crap helps me understand why are government is such a mess. If your outrage is because of canceled field trips or political showmanship, you may want to reconsider your involvement in politics.

And dems are trying to shut down even things there is no reason to shut down, to affect as many people as possible just to put more political pressure on republicans.   Its just a game to everyone in Washington.
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Lee
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« Reply #168 on: October 04, 2013, 11:17:45 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on October 04, 2013, 11:00:01 PM

And dems are trying to shut down even things there is no reason to shut down, to affect as many people as possible just to put more political pressure on republicans.   Its just a game to everyone in Washington.

And I don't deny that, they are both playing games.

The fact is though, Obamacare passed, it's a law now. There are ways to go against laws you don't like. Shutting down the government and ransoming is not one of those options.
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« Reply #169 on: October 04, 2013, 11:24:59 PM »

Quote from: Lee on October 04, 2013, 11:17:45 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on October 04, 2013, 11:00:01 PM

And dems are trying to shut down even things there is no reason to shut down, to affect as many people as possible just to put more political pressure on republicans.   Its just a game to everyone in Washington.

And I don't deny that, they are both playing games.

The fact is though, Obamacare passed, it's a law now. There are ways to go against laws you don't like. Shutting down the government and ransoming is not one of those options.

Oh I completely agree that this is not the way to fight against a bad law.    I just fear no one is going to blink in this game of chicken and we are all doomed.
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« Reply #170 on: October 05, 2013, 12:01:01 AM »

"Doomed" is being overly dramatic.  Right now we're inconvenienced.  A week or two we'll be uncomfortable.  Beyond that we'll be put upon and some families will have tough times.  But doomed?  Not likely.  Remember a little thing called sequestration?  

I'm not saying we're in a good situation.  But let's not go to opposite extremes either.
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« Reply #171 on: October 05, 2013, 12:04:03 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on October 05, 2013, 12:01:01 AM

"Doomed" is being overly dramatic.  Right now we're inconvenienced.  A week or two we'll be uncomfortable.  Beyond that we'll be put upon and some families will have tough times.  But doomed?  Not likely.  Remember a little thing called sequestration?  

I'm not saying we're in a good situation.  But let's not go to opposite extremes either.

We are doomed if we default on the debt, the worlds economy is based largely on the US being a safe place to put money.   That all ends if we default.    So no using the word doomed is not overly dramatic.
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« Reply #172 on: October 05, 2013, 12:28:08 AM »

Quote from: Moliere on October 04, 2013, 10:55:00 PM

Which facts are being disputed? That it was forcibly closed by the Park Service? That's it's privately funded and staffed?

I'm sure all those facts are true. I just wonder what else might be true. Does the Park Service maintain a road that needs to be closed for safety reasons? Do they in some other way administer access to the land? It could be this is just someone in the Park Service being needlessly literal about shutting down all locations they administer (like at Mount Vernon) or there could be reasonable safety/property related reasons to shut down (like many of the DC monuments). This only appears to be one side of the story. The people at the Park Service who would talk to the press are mostly furloughed, though, I bet.

Regardless, what is important isn't this park or that land, it's that we need to restart the entire government. The votes are there in the house to pass the Senate's compromise CR. Boehner should allow a vote.
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« Reply #173 on: October 05, 2013, 12:36:33 AM »

Quote from: Moliere on October 04, 2013, 09:29:48 PM

A privately run park gets shut down by the National Park Service?

Quote
National Park Officials closed down the educational Claude Moore Colonial Farm near the CIA in McLean, Va., even though the federal government doesn't fund or staff the park popular with children and schools. Just because the privately-operated park is on Park Service land, making the federal government simply its landlord, the agency decided to close it.
Sign Up for the Paul Bedard newsletter!

A Claude Moore Colonial Farm official said that the privately-funded staff is on the job Wednesday, but barred from letting anybody visit the historically accurate buildings or animals. Anna Eberly, the managing director, sent out an email decrying the decision and rude National Park Service staff handling the closure.

Pointing to Park Service claims that parks have to be closed because the agency can’t afford staff during the government closure, Eberly wrote: “What utter crap. We have operated the Farm successfully for 32 years after the NPS cut the Farm from its budget in 1980 and are fully staffed and prepared to open today. But there are barricades at the Pavilions and entrance to the Farm. And if you were to park on the grass and visit on your own, you run the risk of being arrested. Of course, that will cost the NPS staff salaries to police the Farm against intruders while leaving it open will cost them nothing.”

I'm sure it's all a big misunderstanding and not political grandstanding. Right?

It's very interesting to see how Republicans have gone from Day 1 of the shutdown, "Well, here we are Day 1 of the shutdown and the sky isn't falling like all the Democrats said it would be. What, a few parks closed? Some kids can't go on some silly field trip? This isn't a shutdown, it's a slimdown!" to Day 4 of the shutdown, "OMG THE PARKS ARE CLOSED!! OBUMMER, YOU ARE A TERRORIST!"

Quote from: Fireball1244 on October 05, 2013, 12:28:08 AM

Quote from: Moliere on October 04, 2013, 10:55:00 PM

Which facts are being disputed? That it was forcibly closed by the Park Service? That's it's privately funded and staffed?

I'm sure all those facts are true. I just wonder what else might be true. Does the Park Service maintain a road that needs to be closed for safety reasons? Do they in some other way administer access to the land? It could be this is just someone in the Park Service being needlessly literal about shutting down all locations they administer (like at Mount Vernon) or there could be reasonable safety/property related reasons to shut down (like many of the DC monuments). This only appears to be one side of the story. The people at the Park Service who would talk to the press are mostly furloughed, though, I bet.
We don't need that kind of level-headed thinking here.  What we need is more knee-jerk reactionism!
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« Reply #174 on: October 05, 2013, 12:49:44 AM »

I tried to find some sort of non-biased coverage of the CMCF situation but Google only had a total of 113 news links for it and all of them from conservative sources because, you know, lamestream media bias. Roll Eyes

The articles that I did read were quite interesting though:
Quote
...the National Park Service ordered the park closed and placed barricades at its facilities. It has also threatened anyone who enters the park with arrest.

Quote
Eberly (managing director of CMCF) says, “The staff has been here [at the farm] all week in spite of being threatened with arrest because we feel our cause is just and the farm is worth protecting.”

When did America become of bastion of fascism? I hope the truth of CMCF comes out someday.
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« Reply #175 on: October 05, 2013, 01:23:17 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on October 05, 2013, 12:01:01 AM

"Doomed" is being overly dramatic.  Right now we're inconvenienced.  A week or two we'll be uncomfortable.  Beyond that we'll be put upon and some families will have tough times.  But doomed?  Not likely.  Remember a little thing called sequestration?  

I'm not saying we're in a good situation.  But let's not go to opposite extremes either.

Doomed may be extreme, but would you be willing to give up your paycheck because of what is going on with our government? A large portion of my coworkers are not at work and are not getting paid. Many of the daily functions of my work are just not being accomplished because of the shut down. Those functions range from the mundane to the more serious of course, but I think this is a lot more than an inconvenience for a lot of people.

I am taking it personally because my finances, housing, relocation, and future plans are all being affected to various degrees by this. I am pretty much stuck until this is over.
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« Reply #176 on: October 05, 2013, 01:36:44 AM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on October 05, 2013, 12:28:08 AM

Quote from: Moliere on October 04, 2013, 10:55:00 PM

Which facts are being disputed? That it was forcibly closed by the Park Service? That's it's privately funded and staffed?

I'm sure all those facts are true. I just wonder what else might be true. Does the Park Service maintain a road that needs to be closed for safety reasons? Do they in some other way administer access to the land?


The last time something approximating news reporting was done on the topic of the Claude Moore Colonial Farm, this local Fox affiliate stated it is still 20% funded by the federal government.  The non-profit fund that covers the other 80% offered to pick up the entire tab for the duration of the government shutdown, but just like with Arizona's desire to keep Grand Canyon functions open with state funds, the feds were legally obligated to turn them down.

Another article clarified that the terms of the farm's 30-year lease make the federal government responsible for safety and security on the grounds.  Technically this is covered by the National Parks Service, though the farm says it has chosen to rely on a nearby police department on the rare occasion that it needed assistance.


I'd make some sort of withering comment about how mobilized Conservatives are getting at the prospect of a non-profit educational farm staffed primarily by unpaid volunteers being shut down just because its the law, all while cancer-riddled children are being denied federal aid to satisfy Republican egos, but I'm headed out for the evening.  Anyone else want to dot that 'i' for us?

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #177 on: October 05, 2013, 03:19:11 PM »

Quote from: Lee on October 05, 2013, 01:23:17 AM

Quote from: hepcat on October 05, 2013, 12:01:01 AM

"Doomed" is being overly dramatic.  Right now we're inconvenienced.  A week or two we'll be uncomfortable.  Beyond that we'll be put upon and some families will have tough times.  But doomed?  Not likely.  Remember a little thing called sequestration?  

I'm not saying we're in a good situation.  But let's not go to opposite extremes either.

Doomed may be extreme, but would you be willing to give up your paycheck because of what is going on with our government? A large portion of my coworkers are not at work and are not getting paid. Many of the daily functions of my work are just not being accomplished because of the shut down. Those functions range from the mundane to the more serious of course, but I think this is a lot more than an inconvenience for a lot of people.

I am taking it personally because my finances, housing, relocation, and future plans are all being affected to various degrees by this. I am pretty much stuck until this is over.

And that's why I wrote

Quote
and some families will have tough times.

I am not making light of the situation. 
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« Reply #178 on: October 05, 2013, 03:29:46 PM »

Defaulting on our debt for the first time in history will cause a hell of a lot more then some families having tough times.
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« Reply #179 on: October 05, 2013, 05:36:51 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on October 05, 2013, 03:29:46 PM

Defaulting on our debt for the first time in history will cause a hell of a lot more then some families having tough times.

Somebody better tell this guy.  A quote that should shock all of us:
Quote
“I think we need to have that moment where we realize [we’re] going broke,” Yoho said. If the debt ceiling isn’t raised, that will sure as heck be a moment. “I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets,” since they would be assured that the United States had moved decisively to curb its debt.
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« Reply #180 on: October 05, 2013, 05:39:16 PM »

"We must increase our debt to show that we can decrease our debt"? Wow.
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« Reply #181 on: October 05, 2013, 06:35:02 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on October 05, 2013, 05:39:16 PM

"We must increase our debt to show that we can decrease our debt"? Wow.

'MURICA.
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« Reply #182 on: October 06, 2013, 07:27:40 PM »

Quote
Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas linked raising the debt ceiling to funding the Affordable Care Act in an exclusive interview Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union” with Candy Crowley.

“The debt ceiling historically has been among the best leverage that Congress has to rein in the executive," Cruz said.

He listed three objectives as Republicans approach the debt ceiling.

"No. 1, we should look for some significant structural plan and reduce government spending. No. 2, we should avoid new taxes, and No. 3, we should look for ways to mitigate the harm from Obamacare."

"Since 1978, we raised the debt ceiling 58 times," said Cruz. "Twenty times Congress attached very specific and stringent requirements, many of the most significant spending restraints. So the president's demand to jack up the nation's credit card with no limits, no constraints - it's not reasonable."

The United States will reach its borrowing limit on October 17.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/06/cruz-use-debt-ceiling-debate-for-leverage/?hpt=hp_t1
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« Reply #183 on: October 06, 2013, 07:42:15 PM »

Oh goodie.  Can Texas take him back yet?
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« Reply #184 on: October 07, 2013, 12:03:18 AM »

Quote from: Gratch on October 06, 2013, 07:42:15 PM

Oh goodie.  Can Texas take him back yet?

It would be more appropriate to give him back to Canada.  He is a Canadian citizen after all.
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« Reply #185 on: October 07, 2013, 03:00:55 AM »

Quote

“The debt ceiling historically has been among the best leverage that Congress has to rein in the executive," Cruz said.


Wait. What? The President makes the budget now?

I hate when they change the Constitution without telling anybody.
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« Reply #186 on: October 08, 2013, 02:24:09 PM »

Defaulting on the national debt?  Totally no big deal

They really are willing to shoot the hostage.  Scary.
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« Reply #187 on: October 08, 2013, 03:29:00 PM »

Quote from: Ironrod on October 07, 2013, 03:00:55 AM

Quote

“The debt ceiling historically has been among the best leverage that Congress has to rein in the executive," Cruz said.


Wait. What? The President makes the budget now?

I hate when they change the Constitution without telling anybody.


Nobody makes the budget now, and he has been MIA.
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« Reply #188 on: October 08, 2013, 03:45:36 PM »

he hasn't been MIA, he's been getting his fiddle tuned up slywink
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« Reply #189 on: October 08, 2013, 04:05:33 PM »

You guys are clueless.  He's not MIA, he's been busy working out for MMA.   He's been fighting under the name o-BAM-a.
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« Reply #190 on: October 08, 2013, 04:31:53 PM »

maybe he's in Alabama plotting to make it Obama and is going to move the Crimson Tide to wherever his favorite college is.
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« Reply #191 on: October 08, 2013, 09:40:24 PM »

hopefully they fix this piece of bullshit right quick:

Quote
In what veterans call an outrageous slight after the ultimate sacrifice, the shuttered federal government is withholding a $100,000 payment normally wired to relatives of fallen soldiers — including the families of five killed in Afghanistan over the weekend.

The payment, known as the death gratuity, is typically sent to families of the fallen within three days to help them cover funeral costs or travel to meet the flag-draped coffins of their loved ones.

“It is upsetting because my husband died for his country, and now his family is left to worry,” said Ashley Peters of Springfield, Mo., whose husband, Jeremy, was a special agent assigned to the Army’s 5th Military Police Battalion and was among the five killed. “My husband always said if something happened to him we would be taken care of.”

“I’m a stay-at-home mom, which is what my husband wanted,” she said. “He wanted me to take care of our son.”

Outrage over the lapse built Tuesday in both parties in Congress, among the relatives of the fallen and among veteran advocacy groups, which characterized it as an unacceptable breach of the country’s obligation to its volunteer military and their families.

The families of five U.S. troops killed overseas this weekend will not receive the usual "death gratuity" due to the government shutdown. A typical $100,000 compensation is wired to families within 36 hours to help with funeral and other expenses.

“Impacting grieving families when they are at their absolute weakest point is just disgusting,” said Joe Davis, a spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the largest organization of combat veterans in the United States.

“Veterans, military personnel and now their families are not to be used as leverage in this political game of blame,” he said. He called on leaders in Congress to “put the country ahead of their politics.”

Congress passed a law last week to pay the military during the shutdown. Pentagon officials studied it to assess whether it might cover the death gratuity and determined that it was not possible, a defense official told NBC News on Tuesday.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20871220-just-disgusting-outrage-after-shutdown-delays-payment-for-families-of-fallen?lite
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« Reply #192 on: October 09, 2013, 01:26:09 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 08, 2013, 09:40:24 PM

hopefully they fix this piece of bullshit right quick:

Quote
In what veterans call an outrageous slight after the ultimate sacrifice, the shuttered federal government is withholding a $100,000 payment normally wired to relatives of fallen soldiers — including the families of five killed in Afghanistan over the weekend.

The payment, known as the death gratuity, is typically sent to families of the fallen within three days to help them cover funeral costs or travel to meet the flag-draped coffins of their loved ones.

“It is upsetting because my husband died for his country, and now his family is left to worry,” said Ashley Peters of Springfield, Mo., whose husband, Jeremy, was a special agent assigned to the Army’s 5th Military Police Battalion and was among the five killed. “My husband always said if something happened to him we would be taken care of.”

“I’m a stay-at-home mom, which is what my husband wanted,” she said. “He wanted me to take care of our son.”

Outrage over the lapse built Tuesday in both parties in Congress, among the relatives of the fallen and among veteran advocacy groups, which characterized it as an unacceptable breach of the country’s obligation to its volunteer military and their families.

The families of five U.S. troops killed overseas this weekend will not receive the usual "death gratuity" due to the government shutdown. A typical $100,000 compensation is wired to families within 36 hours to help with funeral and other expenses.

“Impacting grieving families when they are at their absolute weakest point is just disgusting,” said Joe Davis, a spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the largest organization of combat veterans in the United States.

“Veterans, military personnel and now their families are not to be used as leverage in this political game of blame,” he said. He called on leaders in Congress to “put the country ahead of their politics.”

Congress passed a law last week to pay the military during the shutdown. Pentagon officials studied it to assess whether it might cover the death gratuity and determined that it was not possible, a defense official told NBC News on Tuesday.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20871220-just-disgusting-outrage-after-shutdown-delays-payment-for-families-of-fallen?lite

I wonder if we could push all aspects of the government through media outrage and re-open the government bit-by-bit. Wouldn't that be a hoot to have House Republicans wake up and realize too late that their leverage is gone. smile
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« Reply #193 on: October 09, 2013, 01:47:06 PM »

So, uhm, standing in the shadow of a giant is alright, as long as it doesn't fall in your direction. Could you guys just decide to open up and take your medicine? It doesn't taste *that* bad.
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« Reply #194 on: October 09, 2013, 02:49:08 PM »

Quote from: raydude on October 09, 2013, 01:26:09 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on October 08, 2013, 09:40:24 PM

hopefully they fix this piece of bullshit right quick:

Quote
In what veterans call an outrageous slight after the ultimate sacrifice, the shuttered federal government is withholding a $100,000 payment normally wired to relatives of fallen soldiers — including the families of five killed in Afghanistan over the weekend.

The payment, known as the death gratuity, is typically sent to families of the fallen within three days to help them cover funeral costs or travel to meet the flag-draped coffins of their loved ones.

“It is upsetting because my husband died for his country, and now his family is left to worry,” said Ashley Peters of Springfield, Mo., whose husband, Jeremy, was a special agent assigned to the Army’s 5th Military Police Battalion and was among the five killed. “My husband always said if something happened to him we would be taken care of.”

“I’m a stay-at-home mom, which is what my husband wanted,” she said. “He wanted me to take care of our son.”

Outrage over the lapse built Tuesday in both parties in Congress, among the relatives of the fallen and among veteran advocacy groups, which characterized it as an unacceptable breach of the country’s obligation to its volunteer military and their families.

The families of five U.S. troops killed overseas this weekend will not receive the usual "death gratuity" due to the government shutdown. A typical $100,000 compensation is wired to families within 36 hours to help with funeral and other expenses.

“Impacting grieving families when they are at their absolute weakest point is just disgusting,” said Joe Davis, a spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the largest organization of combat veterans in the United States.

“Veterans, military personnel and now their families are not to be used as leverage in this political game of blame,” he said. He called on leaders in Congress to “put the country ahead of their politics.”

Congress passed a law last week to pay the military during the shutdown. Pentagon officials studied it to assess whether it might cover the death gratuity and determined that it was not possible, a defense official told NBC News on Tuesday.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20871220-just-disgusting-outrage-after-shutdown-delays-payment-for-families-of-fallen?lite

I wonder if we could push all aspects of the government through media outrage and re-open the government bit-by-bit.

We're fighting hard not to do that right now. Democratic members of the House are voting against piecemeal funding for programs they dearly support because this pick and choose system is no way to reopen the government.
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« Reply #195 on: October 09, 2013, 02:51:11 PM »

Quote from: raydude on October 09, 2013, 01:26:09 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on October 08, 2013, 09:40:24 PM

hopefully they fix this piece of bullshit right quick:

Quote
In what veterans call an outrageous slight after the ultimate sacrifice, the shuttered federal government is withholding a $100,000 payment normally wired to relatives of fallen soldiers — including the families of five killed in Afghanistan over the weekend.

The payment, known as the death gratuity, is typically sent to families of the fallen within three days to help them cover funeral costs or travel to meet the flag-draped coffins of their loved ones.

“It is upsetting because my husband died for his country, and now his family is left to worry,” said Ashley Peters of Springfield, Mo., whose husband, Jeremy, was a special agent assigned to the Army’s 5th Military Police Battalion and was among the five killed. “My husband always said if something happened to him we would be taken care of.”

“I’m a stay-at-home mom, which is what my husband wanted,” she said. “He wanted me to take care of our son.”

Outrage over the lapse built Tuesday in both parties in Congress, among the relatives of the fallen and among veteran advocacy groups, which characterized it as an unacceptable breach of the country’s obligation to its volunteer military and their families.

The families of five U.S. troops killed overseas this weekend will not receive the usual "death gratuity" due to the government shutdown. A typical $100,000 compensation is wired to families within 36 hours to help with funeral and other expenses.

“Impacting grieving families when they are at their absolute weakest point is just disgusting,” said Joe Davis, a spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the largest organization of combat veterans in the United States.

“Veterans, military personnel and now their families are not to be used as leverage in this political game of blame,” he said. He called on leaders in Congress to “put the country ahead of their politics.”

Congress passed a law last week to pay the military during the shutdown. Pentagon officials studied it to assess whether it might cover the death gratuity and determined that it was not possible, a defense official told NBC News on Tuesday.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20871220-just-disgusting-outrage-after-shutdown-delays-payment-for-families-of-fallen?lite

I wonder if we could push all aspects of the government through media outrage and re-open the government bit-by-bit. Wouldn't that be a hoot to have House Republicans wake up and realize too late that their leverage is gone. smile

You wouldn't even need that. The republicans have tried to take the approach of sending on the stuff everyone can agree on so it can be whittled down to budget areas where there are differences. That was not acceptable to Reid/Obama. They fear loosing leverage for the stuff they know wouldn't get through. Both sides are more worried about getting their less popular pet issues through than the most important meat items that neither one dares oppose.

This is what happens when the historical budget process has been disregarded repeatedly in order to push through things under the guise of a crisis that wouldn't make it if the proper protocol hadn't become a matter of history rather than one of practice.
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« Reply #196 on: October 09, 2013, 03:39:37 PM »

Quote from: Purge on October 09, 2013, 01:47:06 PM

So, uhm, standing in the shadow of a giant is alright, as long as it doesn't fall in your direction. Could you guys just decide to open up and take your medicine? It doesn't taste *that* bad.

I hear it tastes like Canadian strawberry syrup....
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« Reply #197 on: October 09, 2013, 03:41:06 PM »

Quote from: Rip on October 09, 2013, 02:51:11 PM

You wouldn't even need that. The republicans have tried to take the approach of sending on the stuff everyone can agree on so it can be whittled down to budget areas where there are differences. That was not acceptable to Reid/Obama. They fear loosing leverage for the stuff they know wouldn't get through. Both sides are more worried about getting their less popular pet issues through than the most important meat items that neither one dares oppose.

Right. Because that's how a government should be budgeted and run. Defund everything, then refund things one at a time in a knee-jerk fashion, based on whatever the media happens to focus on.
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« Reply #198 on: October 09, 2013, 04:00:06 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on October 09, 2013, 03:41:06 PM

Quote from: Rip on October 09, 2013, 02:51:11 PM

You wouldn't even need that. The republicans have tried to take the approach of sending on the stuff everyone can agree on so it can be whittled down to budget areas where there are differences. That was not acceptable to Reid/Obama. They fear loosing leverage for the stuff they know wouldn't get through. Both sides are more worried about getting their less popular pet issues through than the most important meat items that neither one dares oppose.

Right. Because that's how a government should be budgeted and run. Defund everything, then refund things one at a time in a knee-jerk fashion, based on whatever the media happens to focus on.

Well in some ways that would be better then the current dem plan.   Do everything you can to make the current shutdown as painful as possible for as many people as possible as a political game to put pressure on the other party until you get what you want.
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« Reply #199 on: October 09, 2013, 04:11:12 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on October 09, 2013, 04:00:06 PM

Quote from: Gratch on October 09, 2013, 03:41:06 PM

Quote from: Rip on October 09, 2013, 02:51:11 PM

You wouldn't even need that. The republicans have tried to take the approach of sending on the stuff everyone can agree on so it can be whittled down to budget areas where there are differences. That was not acceptable to Reid/Obama. They fear loosing leverage for the stuff they know wouldn't get through. Both sides are more worried about getting their less popular pet issues through than the most important meat items that neither one dares oppose.

Right. Because that's how a government should be budgeted and run. Defund everything, then refund things one at a time in a knee-jerk fashion, based on whatever the media happens to focus on.

Well in some ways that would be better then the current dem plan.   Do everything you can to make the current shutdown as painful as possible for as many people as possible as a political game to put pressure on the other party until you get what you want.

They should get what they want. That's the entire point of being elected and holding a majority. The moment the Democrats don't get what they want in this case is the moment when America truly abandons democracy. Trust me when I say that the rest of the world is watching this and wondering how the fuck a minority party can pull off this kind of crap in a supposedly civilized country.
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